House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 17 December 1644

DIE Martis, 17 die Decembris.

PRAYERS, by Dr. Gouge.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker this Day.

Mr. Griffith's Accusation.

The Earl of Sarum reported to the House some Heads, concerning the Business of Mr. Griffith.

And the House taking into Consideration the Petition of Mr. Griffith read in this House Yesterday, a Message was sent to the House of Commons, as followeth:

Message to the H. C. about it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Whitfield and Mr. Serjeant Fynch:

To communicate the said Petition to them, and let them know, "That the House of Commons being interested in this Business, it having been under the Examination of Committees of both Houses, the Lords thought it not fit to do any Thing in it without first consulting with the House of Commons."

2. To deliver unto them the Ordinance concerning the Seal of the County of Lancashire; wherein their Lordships have made some Alterations, and desire the Concurrence of the House of Commons therein.

Coaches sent for the Lords who are come from the King.

Ordered, That the Lord General and the Earl of Pembrooke are desired to send their Coaches, to bring the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of South'ton to the House this Afternoon.

Votes concerning the Crimes committed by the Archbishop of Cant.

Next, this House took into Consideration, "Whether, in their Consciences, upon the Proofs which they have heard, the Matter of Fact charged in the Ordinance for the Attainder of the Archbishop of Canterbury of High Treason be proved or not ?"

And, after a mature Debate, these Particulars were voted; videlicet,

"1. Whether Will. Laude, Archbishop of Canterbury, hath endeavoured to subvert the fundamental Laws and Government of the Kingdom of England; and, instead thereof, to introduce an arbitrary and tyrannical Government, against Law ?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

"2. Whether he hath endeavoured to alter and subvert God's true Religion, by Law established in this Realm; and, instead thereof, to set up Popish Superstition and Idolatry ?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative, nemine contradicente.

"3. Whether he hath endeavoured to subvert the Rights of Parliaments, and the ancient Course of Parliamentary Proceedings, and, by false and malicious Slanders, to incense His Majesty against Parliaments?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message from the Assembly, with a further Part of the Directory.

A Message was brought from the Assembly of Divines, by Dr. Burges, One of the Assessors, and others:

To present to this House, as the Advice of the said Assembly, another Part of the Directory concerning Visitation of the Sick.

And it was expressed, "That it was not the Intent of the Assembly of Divines to desert or cast out the Decalogue and the Creed out of the Directory; but they intend to insert them in the Catechism, which they are about, as being the most proper Place for it."

Lords Leave to visit the Two who are come from the King.

Ordered, That such Lords as will visit the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of South'ton have hereby Leave to visit them for Once, at such Times as they think fit.

Answer from the H. C.

Mr. Serjeant Whitfield and Mr. Serjeant Fynch return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they agree to the Alterations in the Ordinance concerning the Seal for the County of Lancaster.

(Here enter it.)

And concerning the Petition of Mr. Griffith, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

L. Wharton excused.

The Lord Wharton is excused for his Absence this Day.

Message to the H. C. to sit P. M.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To let them know, that this House intends to sit this Afternoon, at Five of the Clock; and to desire that they would do the like, if it may stand with their Conveniency.

Judges Opinions in Point of Law, whether the Crimes committed by the Archbishop of Cant. amount to Treason.

It was moved, "That the Maters of Fact charged against the Archbishop of Canterbury being voted to be proved, that the Judges might deliver their Opinions upon those Votes, in Point of Law, "Whether they were Treason upon the whole Matters voted ?" And all the Judges answered, "That they could deliver no Opinion in this Case, in Point of Treason, by the Law, because they could not deliver any Opinion in Point of Treason but what was particularly expressed to be Treason in the Statute of 25 E. III. Cap. And so referred it wholly to the Judgement of this House.

Order for a new Seal for the Dutchy of Lancaster.

"Whereas the Dutchy Seal belonging to the County Palatine of Lancaster hath been forcibly taken from Christopher Banister Esquire, Vice Chancellor of the said County, by the Forces raised against the Parliament; in the Want whereof, neither Sheriff nor Justices of Peace could be made for that County, nor common Justice administered unto the Inhabitants thereof, unto their unsufferable Prejudice and Detriment: Be it therefore Declared and Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That a Dutchy Seal, already by them provided and made, shall be forthwith put in Use, and shall be, and is hereby authorized and established to be, of like Force, Power, and Validity, to all Intents and Purposes, as any Dutchy Seal of the County Palatine of Lancaster heretofore hath been, or ought to be; and the said Seal shall be forthwith sent, by a Messenger to be appointed by the Speaker of the House of Commons, to the said Christopher Banister, who is hereby authorized and ordered, during the Pleasure of both Houses of Parliament, to put the same Seal in Use; and to do and perform all Acts and Things, as fully and amply as he or any other Vice Chancellor hath formerly done or performed; and to do and perform such other Acts and Things therewith, as he shall receive Directions for from both Houses of Parliament: And it is further Ordered and Ordained, That all Acts whatsoever, that have been done by the said former Dutchy Seal for the County Palatine of Lancaster, since the same was taken away from the said Christofer Banister as aforesaid, or any Act or Thing that hereafter shall be done by that or any other Dutchy Seal for the County Palatine of Lancaster (other than what is hereby appointed and established), shall be utterly void, frustrate, and of none Effect; and what the said Christopher Banister shall do in Pursuance of this Ordinance, he shall be protected by Authority of both Houses of Parliament."

Post meridiem.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Report of the Meeting with the Lords who are come from the King.

The Lord General reported to the House, "That the Select Committees of both Houses, in the Presence of the Scottish Commissioners, have received from the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of South'ton what they had to deliver from the King; the Contents whereof was in Two Papers.

"First, The Duke of Richmond made an Introduction, to this Effect:

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"We are commanded by His Majesty, together with His Answer which we bring, to present to you the Assurance of His real and earnest Desires of Peace, which, He conceives, cannot so well appear by any Expressions in Words, as by those Proofs His Actions shall make, whensoever it shall be put into a Way of Trial, which He very much desires may be with Speed."

The King's Answer to the Propositions lately sent Him.

Next, the Answer was read, as followeth:

"CHARLES R.

His Majesty's Answer to the Propositions presented to Him from the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westm. and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland now at London; to be delivered to the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westm. and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland now at London.

The King's Answer to the Propositions about Peace.

"His Majesty hath seriously considered the Propositions, and finds it very difficult, in respect they import so great an Alteration in Government both in Church and State, to return a particular and positive Answer, before a full Debate, wherein those Propositions, and all the necessary Explanations and Reasons for assenting, dissenting, or qualifying, and all Inconveniencies and Mischiefs which may ensue, and cannot otherwise be so well foreseen, may be discussed and weighed: His Majesty therefore proposeth and desireth, as the best Expedient for Peace, that you will appoint such Number of Persons as you shall think fit, to treat with the like Number of Persons to be appointed by His Majesty upon the said Propositions, and such other Things as shall be proposed by His Majesty for the Preservation and Defence of the Protestant Religion (with due Regard to the Ease of tender Consciences, as His Majesty hath often offered), the Rights of the Crown, the Liberty and Property of the Subject, and the Privileges of Parliament; and, upon the whole Matter, to conclude a happy and blessed Peace.

"Given at Our Court at Oxon, the 13th of December, 1644."

Ordered, That the Consideration of this Business shall be upon Thursday Morning next, at which Time the House shall be called; and the Lords shall have Notice to be present.

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9^a, Thursday next.