House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 19 December 1644

DIE Jovis, 19 die Decembris.

PRAYERS, by Dr. Gouge.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

May, for Words against Lord Say.

Upon reading the Petition of May, sent for as a Delinquent, to answer for speaking some derogatory Words of a Peer of this House, denying the Words:

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Witnesses which made the Information against him shall attend this House on Tuesday next, to give in their Testimony concerning this Business; and in the mean Time the said May to go upon his Bail.

L. Herbert's Petition, for a Subsistence.

Upon reading the Petition of Edward Lord Herbert of Cherbery, shewing, "That all his Estate and Goods being lost by reason of these Troubles, he desires that some Means may be allowed him for his necessary Subsistence; and because his Goods, (fn. 1) which were seized on through a meer Mistake, by the Committee for Sequestrations, are now in the Hands of Mr. John Spencer, who bought the same for Two Hundred and Seventy Pounds, and that they will not be restored to him unless the Sum be paid; therefore he desires an Order, that the Committee for Sequestration, or some other, may pay the said Sum to Mr. Spencer, to the Intent he may have his Goods again."

Hereupon this House Ordered, To recommend this Petition to the House of Commons, that it may be referred to the Committee of Sequestrations.

E. of Carlisle, Leave to visit the Lords from the King.

Ordered, That the Earl of Carlile hath Leave to visit the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of South'ton.

Message from the King to be referred to the Committee of both Kingdoms.

The House taking into Consideration the King's Message, brought by the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of South'ton: It (fn. 2) is Ordered, To send a Message to the House of Commons, to let them know, that, upon Consideration of the Message from His Majesty, brought by the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of South'ton, the Lords think fit to refer it to the Committee of both Kingdoms, with Addition of Three Lords, as concerning this Business only, that they may advise what Answer is fit to be given to His Majesty's Message, and report it to the Houses; and to desire the Concurrence of the House of Commons herein, and that they would appoint a proportionable Number of their House.

And the House presently added the Earls of Pembrooke, Sarum, and the Lord Howard.

Message to the H. C. for that Purpose;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Whitfield and Mr. Serjeant Fynch:

To deliver to them the Sense of this House as aforesaid, concerning the King's Message.

and with L. Herbert's Petition.

2. To deliver to them the Petition of the Lord Herbert of Cherbery; and desire their Concurrence, that it may be recommended to the Committee of Lords and Commons for Sequestration.

Message from thence, for a Meeting with the Scots Commissioners, to consider of the King's Message.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence, that the Scotts Commissioners may be sent to, and desired that they would give a Meeting with the Select Committee of both Houses, to consider of the King's Message.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Letter from the Swedish Agent.

The Speaker acquainted the House with the Letter sent to him from the Agent of the Queen of Sweeden; which was read. (Here enter it.)

Message from the H. C. to refer it to the Committee of both Kingdoms;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Roger North, &c.

To communicate to this House a Letter, sent to their Speaker, from the Agent of Sweden; and desire their Lordships Concurrence, that it may be referred to the Committee of both Kingdoms.

and with an Ordinance.

2. To desire Concurrence in an Ordinance for Discharge of the Delinquency of the Earl of Thanett.

The Answer was:

Answer.

That this House will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Letter from the Swedish Agent, that he may communicate Matters he has in Charge.

"For the Right Honourable the Lord Gray of Warke, Speaker to the House of Peers.

"Right Honourable,

"The Queen of Sweden, my Gracious Lady and Mistress, with the Regentis of that Kingdom, have sent me to the most Honourable and High Court of Parliament (the Representative Body of this Kingdom), in Commission to deliver Her Majesty's Letters, containing Matters of great Importance, and tending to the Honour and Welfare of both Kingdoms, to these whom it shall please the Houses to appoint for receiving them. For this Cause, I heartily entreat your Lordship to let me have your Answer, by the Master of Ceremonies, with the First Conveniency.

"Your Lordship's

"Most affectionate Serviteur,

"Hugh Mouat."

Committee to receive them.

The House taking into Consideration the Letter of the Agent of the Queen of Sweeden; the House thought it fit, that a Select Committee of both Houses be appointed, to receive what he hath to deliver to the Parliament; and to this Purpose these Lords following were named Committees:

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire a present Conference, concerning the Agent of the Queen of Sweden, in the Painted Chamber.

Message from the Assembly, about observing Christmasday as a Public Fast.

A Message was brought from the Assembly, by Doctor Burges, &c. humbly to present to their Lordships Consideration, "That Wednesday next, Christmas Day, being appointed for the keeping of the Fast by both Houses, they finding in the City of London some People inclined not to keep that Day so solemnly as it should be, and they fearing some Inconveniencies may ensue thereupon; therefore they humbly offer to the Wisdom of this House, whether it will not be needful, that a Declaration be drawn up, and agreed by both Houses, that it may be published the next Lordsday in the Churches within the Line of Communication, that that Day may be kept as it ought to be, that so (fn. 3) the whole Kingdom may have Comfort thereby."

Ordinance to be drawn for that Purpose.

The House taking this into Consideration; Ordered, That the Earl of Manchester, the Lord Wharton, and the Lord North, do draw an Ordinance to this Purpose, and present it to this House To-morrow Morning.

Heads for the Conference about the Swedish Agent.

The Earl of Northumb. was appointed by this House, to manage the Conference; and to let them know, That the Letter from the Agent of Swethland mentioning some Matters of great Importance from the Queen his Mistress, and the Regentis, to be communicated unto such as the Two Houses of Parliament shall appoint; the Lords do conceive it most proper first to appoint Select Committees of both Houses, to receive what he hath to deliver unto them; and afterwards, if they find Occasion for it, they shall consider of a Way to communicate it unto the Commissioners of Scotland."

Thanks to the Preachers at the Fast.

Ordered, That Mr. Marshall, Mr. Hill, and Mr. Sedgwicke, have hereby Thanks given from this House, for their great Pains taken in Preaching Yesterday at Lyncolnes Inne, before both Houses of Parliament.

States Ambassadors exempted from the Excise.

"Ordered, by the Lords assembled in Parliament, That The States Ambassadors, being Extraordinary Ambassadors, be exempt from the Payment of any Excise, upon the Consumption of any Flesh, Wine, Beer, or other Necessaries; and that as well for what is imported alread your bought, or shall for the future be imported or bought here, for which the Steward to the said Ambassadors shall give a Note under his Hand."

To import their Wine, &c. Duty-free.

"Ordered, by the Lords assembled in Parliament that The States Ambassadors shall have such Wine and Beer, as they themselves shall bring over for their own Expence, Excise and Custom-free."

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance for observing the Fast on Christmasday.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Rous, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in an Ordinance, concerning the keeping the next Fast, which falls now on Christmas-day. (Here enter it.)

The said Ordinance was read Thrice, and Agreed to; and Ordered to be printed, and published the next Lords-day, in all Churches and Chapels within the Line of Communication and Bills of Mortality.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Ordinance now brought.

Answers from the H. C.

Mr. Serjeant Whitfield and Mr. Serjeant Fynch return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That concerning the adding of some Lords to the Committee of both Kingdoms, only to advise concerning an Answer to the King's Message, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own; and concerning the Petition of the Lord Herbert of Cherberry, they agree with their Lordships in recommending it to the Committee of Sequestrations.

Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page [ (fn. 4) return with this Answer] from the House of Commons:

That they will give a present Conference, as is desired.

Message from thence, that they may impart at the Conference somewhat about referring the King's Message;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Wm. Lewis, &c.

That whereas a Conference is to be, concerning Letters sent to the Speakers of both Houses from the Agent of the Queen of Sweden, the House of Commons desires that, at the same Conference, they might impart to their Lordships some Things concerning the Matter of a late Message, concerning the King's Message.

about Serjeant Glanvile's Assessment;

2. To desire Concurrence in an Order concerning Serjeant Glanvil's Assessment.

Agreed to.

and to sit P. M.

3. To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons hath resolved to sit at Four of the Clock this Afternoon; and to desire their Lordships (fn. 5) to sit likewise.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to all the Particulars of the Message now brought up.

Design of betraying Lynn, by Roger Le Strange.

The Earl of Manchester acquainted this House with a Design, as plotted, for the betraying of the Town of Lynne, a Garrison of the Parliament's; and the principal Agent in it was Mr. Roger Le Strange, who is now brought to London, and some Examinations taken in the Business; and a Commission granted him by the King was found about him, and read, as followeth:

Commission from the King, for him to be Governor of it, and for other Purposes.

"CHARLES R.

"We having received, from Our Trusty and Wellbeloved Roger Le Strange, Declaration of the good Affections of divers of Our well-affected Subjects of Our Counties of Norfolke and Suffolke, particularly of Our Town of Lynne, as also some Overtures concerning the reducing of Our said Town of Linne; We have thought fit hereby to return Our Royal Thanks unto Our said Well-affected Subjects, and particularly to give Our said Trusty and Well-beloved Roger Le Strange these Encouragements to proceed in Our Service, principally in the Work of reducing the said Town of Linne:

"First, That, in Case that Attempt shall be gone through withall, he the said Roger Le Strange shall have the Government of that Place.

"Secondly, That what Engagements shall be made unto the Inhabitants of the said Place, or any other Person capable of contributing effectually to that Service, by Way of Reward, either in Employment in His Majesty's Navy or Forts, or in Money not exceeding the Sum of Five Thousand Pounds, the Service being performed, shall be punctually made good unto them.

"Thirdly, That they shall in this Work receive what Assistance may be given them from any of Our nearest Garrisons.

"And lastly, That whenever Our said Town shall be reduced unto Our Obedience, We shall forthwith send thither such a considerable ^* Force, as shall be sufficient to relieve and preserve them; We being at present, even without this, fully resolved to send a considerable Power, to encourage our faithful Subjects in those Parts, and to regain Our Rights and Interests there.

"Given at Our Court at Oxford, this 28 November, 1644.

"By His Majesty's Command,

"George Digby."

Message to the H. C. for Le Strange to be tried by the Council of War.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To deliver unto them the Commission, which was found about Roger Le Strange; and to let them know, that he being brought up on Tuesday Night last, and the Witnesses and Examinations being now in Town, their Lordships think it fit, if the House of Commons join in it, that the said Roger Le Strange be tried by the Council of War in London.

Design to be tray Reading.

Next, the Lord General acquainted the House with a Letter from Colonel Barckley, at Reading; intimating, "That there was lately a Design to betray the Town and Garrison of Reading; but it was discovered, and divers Persons are apprehended and imprisoned for it."

Hereupon this (fn. 6) House Ordered, That it be referred to the Lord General, to try these Persons by a Council of War.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference about referring the King's Message.

And the Speaker reported, "That the House of Commons desires that the Committee of Fourteen Lords may meet with the Committee of Twenty-eight Commoners this Afternoon, and consider of the King's last Message, because they desire to give Expedition to the Business, that so the Messengers sent from the King may speedily return; and that the Committee may have Power to advise with the Scottish Commissioners concerning this Business."

Committees to meet with the Scots Commissioners about it.

To which this House (fn. 7) agreed, and Ordered the same accordingly, and appointed the Committee to meet at Three of the Clock; and the Gentleman Usher had Directions to signify so much from this House to the Scotts Commissioners.

Ordinance to observe the Fast on Christmas-day.

"Whereas some Doubts have been raised, whether the next Fast shall be celebrated, because it falleth on the Day which heretofore was usually called The Feast of the Nativity of our Saviour: The Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled do Order and Ordain, That Public Notice be given, that the Fast appointed to be kept on the last Wednesday in every Month ought to be observed, until it be otherwise Ordered by both Houses of Parliament; and that this Day particularly is to be kept with the more solemn Humiliation, because it may call to Remembrance our Sins, and the Sins of our Forefathers, who have turned this Feast, pretending the Memory of Christ, into an extreme Forgetfulness of Him, by giving Liberty to carnal and sensual Delights, being contrary to the Life which Christ Himself led here upon Earth, and to the spiritual Life of Christ in our Souls; for the sanctifying and saving whereof, Christ was pleased both to take a human Life, and to lay it down again."

Order for disposing of Serjeant Glanvile's Fine to Portsmouth Garrison, &c.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the first Two Thousand Pounds arising out of the Fine laid, or to be laid, upon Serjeant Glanvile, by the Committee of Habberdashers Hall, for Composition for his Delinquency, shall be issued forth for the Use of the Garrison of Portsmouth; and that until such Time as the said Money shall be paid in, that the Committee at Habberdashers Hall do advance Five Hundred Pounds for the Garrison of Portsmouth, to be re-paid out (fn. 8) of the Two Thousand Pounds assigned out of Serjeant Glanvil's Fine, for the Use of that Garrison, and Two Hundred Pounds to Mr. Jones a Cutler; and the Residue of the Monies that shall come in upon his Composition, to be disposed of for the Service of the West, by the Committee of Lords and Commons for the West."

Letter from Colonel Barclay, about a Design of betraying Reading.

"To his Excellency the Earl of Essex. These, humbly present.

"May it please your Excellency,

"I staid the longer, that so I might give you the fuller Account concerning a Spy of the King's, that was apprehended on Monday, and confesseth, That he having formerly been a Soldier in the King's Army, but now lived at Strattfeild Sea, and was on Friday Night sent for, by some of the Commanders of Basin House, to go to the Garrison of Reding, to see what Ordnance and Strength there was in the Town, and what Horse lay near; he was also to enquire for a Brewer's House near St. Marye's Church, and he to send to Four or Five more in the Town, that were Friends to the King, and acquaint them, that the Man was sent from Basin House to them: An Answer was returned him by a Townsman, That, according as they had formerly promised, they would be as good as their Words; though they could not do it before, yet they would do it now, if they could: And faith, That, To-morrow Morning, about Two of the Clock, a considerable Party of Foot and Horse were to come from the King's Army, for surprizing of the Town: Upon which Suspicion, I have apprehended several Townsmen, that the Committee have in their Custody. For Prevention whereof, I have strengthened the Guards, and given Order to be in Readiness to repair to their several Alarum Places. I shall humbly desire your Excellency would be pleased to send some Horses hither; for we have no Intelligence but that we have from Mr. Bedford, who will be forced to put away his Men for Want of Money. I shall not be wanting, by God's Assistance, to approve myself,

Reading, 17th Dec. 1644, 8 at Night.

"Your Excellency's

"Most faithful and obedient Servant,

"Harie Barclay."

Roger Le Strange to be tried by Martial Law.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Mr. Roger Le Strange be referred to the Commissioners for Martial Law, to be speedily proceeded with according to the Course of Martial Law, for being taken with a Commission from the King, for Delivery of the Town of Lynne to the King, and endeavouring accordingly to do it."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 3^a post meridiem.

Post meridiem.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they agree that Roger Le Strange be tried by the Commissioners for Martial Affairs.

Report from the Scots Commissioners, and the Committees appointed to consider of the King's Message.

The Earl of Northumb. reported, "That the Select Committees of both Houses have met, and have advised with the Scotts Commissioners, touching the King's Message; and they offer to their Lordships Consideration their Opinion; videlicet,

"To report to both Houses, That this Committee and the Commissioners of Scotland are of Opinion, That there be a Treaty for a safe and well-grounded Peace, with such Instructions, and in such Manner, as shall be agreed upon by the Two Houses of Parliament and the Commissioners for the Kingdom of Scotland.

"And because the Committee thinks that, if the Two Lords sent from the King should stay here until the Two Houses had resolved of all Particulars concerning the Manner of the Treaty, it would be too long, and Inconveniencies would happen thereupon; the Committee, with the Advice of the Commissioners of Scotland, have prepared an Answer to be sent to the King, by the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of South'ton, which is offered to the Consideration and Wisdom of the Houses, and read, as followeth:

Answer to the King's Message about Peace.

"May it please Your most Excellent Majesty,

"We Your Majesty's humble and loyal Subjects of both Kingdoms have considered of Your Majesty's Message of the 13th of December, 1644, sent by the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of South'ton, directed, "To the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westm. and to the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland now at London;" and do in all Humbleness return this Answer:

"That we do consent there be a Treaty for a safe and well-grounded Peace; but find that it will require some Time to resolve concerning the Instructions and Manner of that Treaty; and therefore, that Your Majesty might not be held in Suspence, touching our Readiness to make Use of any Opportunity for attaining such a blessed and happy Peace in all Your Majesty's Dominions, we would not stay Your Majesty's Messengers till we did resolve upon all those Particulars, which we will take into our serious Consideration, and present our humble Desires therein to Your Majesty with all convenient Speed."

Message to the H. C. to concur in it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire their Concurrence in these Particulars.