House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 31 May 1689

Veneris, 31 die Maii ; 1 ° Willielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Dean of Canterbury excused from preaching.

THE House was informed, that the Dean of Canterbury is sick, and therefore desires to be excused from preaching before the House on Wednesday next.

Dr. Tennison appointed for the Morning.

Ordered, That Doctor Tennison be desired to preach, before this House, at St. Margarett's, Westminster, upon the Fifth Day of June next, in the Forenoon, being the Day appointed, by their Majesties Proclamation, for a General Fast: And that Mr. Hamden do acquaint him with such the Desire of this House.

Mr. Wake for the Afternoon.

Ordered, That Mr. Wake be desired to preach before this House, at St. Margarett's, Westminster, upon the Fifth Day of June next, in the Afternoon, being the Day appointed, by their Majesties Proclamation, for a General Fast: And that Mr. Grey do acquaint him with such the Desires of the House.

Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy.

The House being informed, That there have happened several Mistakes in the Act for Abrogating of the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance, and appointing other Oaths;

Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to examine the same; and to prepare a Bill for rectifying the same, as there shall be occasion.

And it is referred unto Mr. Buscowen, Mr. Sachaverell, Mr. Hamden, Sir Thom. Lee, Colonel Birch, Sir Fra. Russell, Mr. Finch, Sir Christopher Musgrave, Mr. Paul Foley, Mr. Attorney General, Sir Jos. Tredenham, Mr. Solicitor General, Sir Tho. Littleton, Sir Rob. Cotton, Major Wildman: And they are to meet this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Cooke have Leave to go into the Country, for Three Weeks.

Aulnago Duty.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee, touching the Abuses in the Aulnage, be made, upon Thursday Morning next, the first Business.

Call of the House.

Ordered, That the Calling-over of the House be adjourned till To-morrow Sevennight.

Bill of Indemnity.

Ordered, That the House do, upon Monday Morning next, proceed in the further Consideration of the Heads for the Bill of Indemnity, on Monday Morning next, the first Business.

Subsidy.

The House then resolved into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Bill for granting a Subsidy to their Majesties.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.
Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.
Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Conference with Lords - Poll Tax.

The Managers, Yesterday appointed, went to the free Conference with the Lords, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference: And being returned,

Sir Thomas Littleton reports from the free Conference, That the Managers appointed had attended the same: And that the Earl of Rochester, Earl of Huntington, and Bishop of Salisbury, managed the same for the Lords: That the Commons urged their Reasons, why they did not agree with the Lords to add the Clause by them proposed, to the additional Poll Bill; viz.

That, in this additional Poll Bill, none but Commoners were taxed; and thence inferred, that their Lordships had no Colour of Reason to meddle in that Bill, to name Commissioners to tax the Peers, in a Bill that did not tax the Peers.

That there was no Omission in the former Poll Bill that was passed and agreed to by the Lords, for want of Nomination of Commissioners to tax them: But, by Consent of both Houses, at passing of the other Bill, the Nomination was left to the King; indeed so restrained, as the King was to name them out of the Commissioners in the Aid Act: But that they were to tax all the King's Subjects, Lords and Commons: And their Lordships passing that Bill, the Commons did think they had concluded themselves in this Matter; and thought it hard their Lordships should come, in a subsequent Bill, to supply a Defect of a former Bill.

That the Lords said, They had passed the former Bill by Inadvertency, being desirous to give a quick Dispatch, by reason of the pressing Occasions: And that they had divers Precedents, whereby they might name Commissioners; but they overlooked it in the former Bill, and thought it hard it should turn to their Prejudice.

That the Commons answered, That they did think, that if there had been such an Omission, that no Commissioners had been named at all, the Commons would have consented, that their Lordships should have named Commissioners, rather than their Lordships should not be taxed: But there was Commissioners before; and the Commons thought, that it went a great way to repeal the Act; for the Commissioners that were named in the former Poll Bill, might probably be entered upon their Office, and taxing the Lords; or that they will do it, if this Clause be not admitted: Therefore, if these Commissioners, as the Law stands, and the Lords have consented, have Authority to tax them, the Commons thought it would be a Repeal of that Law, at least pro tanto; for their Authority must cease, who have an Authority by the former Law.

That the Lords insisted much upon it, Why the Commons should deny them to name new Commissioners in this additional Poll Bill, though the Lords are not taxed by it; having given them a handle, by naming new Commissioners, for the Serjeant's Inn, Inns of Courts and Chancery.

That the Commons did very reasonably distinguish with them, in that Matter; for that, if the Lords had done no more than the Commons, it might have born a further Debate, viz. If they had pursued the Method of the other Bill, that the King should name such of the Peers, as he thought fit, to tax them: For why do they name Commissioners here? There was no naming by Lords or Commons; that had been manifestly against the other Bill: But the Commons left it to the King, to appoint Commissioners of the Members of the several Serjeants Inn, Inns of Court and Chancery, as he should think fit: And they name no particular Persons, as the Lords did: And the Reason why the Commons did this, was, because there is a pretended Kind of Privilege, whereby they will deny other Commissioners to enter into their Jurisdictions; and did so on the last Poll Bill, because there was no Commissioners of them named. And so, that this Part of the Tax might not be lost, the Bill provided, That the King might name Commissioners of themselves: But they did not name new Commissioners. And that, upon the whole, Matter, the Commons left it with their Lordships to consider, whether they will agree, or no.

Supply Bill; Land Tax.

Then the House resumed the Consideration of the Bill, for granting a Subsidy to their Majesties.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.
Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.
Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Conference with Lords - Poll Tax.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Mr. Methwyn;

Mr. Speaker, We are commanded, by the Lords, to acquaint this House, That the Lords do desire a present free Conference in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the last free Conference,

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House doth agree to a present free Conference, as the Lords do desire.

And the Messengers being called in again, Mr. Speaker acquainted them therewith.

Resolved, That the Members that managed the last free Conference, do manage this free Conference.

The Managers went to the Conference accordingly: And being returned,

Sir Thomas Littleton reports from the free Conference, That the Managers appointed had attended the same: That the Earl of Rochester managed it for the Lords; and said, That he had reported, from the last free Conference, the Reasons given by the Commons, and their own, to their House: Upon which, considering the same, their Lordships were come to a Resolution of adhering to their own Amendments: And that the Earl of Rochester gave this Reason; For that, he said, it did appear, That, in former Poll Bills, the Lords had a Right of naming their own Commissioners: And, though they had omitted it out of their Zeal, to give Dispatch to the former Act; yet, he said, afterwards, the Commons in this additional Bill, taking care that other Commissioners should be now made than in the other Bill, that Handle, he said, they took to retrieve their Right, as he thought they might do; and that they had adhered to the Clause.

Resolved, That this House doth adhere to the Bill, without the Amendments proposed by the Lords.

Resolved, That the Committee be appointed, to consider of the Methods of Proceeding between the Two Houses, upon Conferences in passing of Bills.

And it is referred to the Committee, to whom it was referred to prepare Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the Lords upon the additional Poll Bill.

Ordered, That Sir Robert Howard be added to the said Committee: And they are to meet this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

Resolved, That a Message be now sent to the Lords, to acquaint them, That this House hath adhered to the additional Poll Bill, without the Amendments proposed by the Lords.

Ordered, That Sir Rowland Gwyn do go up to the Lords with that Message.

List of Irish Gentry.

Ordered, That the Printing the List of the Irish Gentry be stopped, until the Committee, to whom the Condition of the Irish Protestants was referred, have reviewed the same.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine of the Clock.