House of Lords Journal Volume 15: 18 April 1694

DIE Mercurii, 18 Aprilis.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Report of the Conference on the Bill for more easy Recovery of Small Tithes:

The Lord Archbishop of Canterbury reported the Conference had the Sixteenth Instant with the House of Commons, upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the more easy Recovery of Small Tithes:"

"That they have attended the Conference; and the Commons do not agree to some of the Amendments, for the Reasons following; (videlicet,)

"The Commons disagree to the Amendments made by the Lords in the 4th, 6th, and 7th Lines of the Third Press:

Commons Reasons for disagreeing to the Lords Amendments to it.

"1. Because the whole Intent of the Bill would be thereby defeated.

"2. For that the Bill is designed to give those who are entitled to Small Tithes a more easy and effectual Remedy for the Recovery of them, and to avoid the Vexation of long and chargeable Suits for such small Matters: And the Commons conceive it unreasonable that the Persons, to whom such Small Tithes are or shall be due, should be discouraged from seeking their Right, by the Consideration of the Tediousness and the Expence of a Suit to recover it; or that the Person, who may have neglected or omitted to pay any Easter Offering of Two Pence, a few Eggs, or some such Thing, be put to a long and troublesome Defence; wherein, how little soever the Thing recovered against him may be, yet he may be condemned in 20, 30, 40 £. or greater Costs: And therefore the Bill provides, that where the Title is not in Question, nor the Value of what is demanded exceeds Twenty Shillings, there shall be no Suit for such Small Tithes, but in the cheap and summary Way this Bill Provides; whereas, by the Lords Amendments, that Intent of the Bill is frustrated, and the Inconvenience and Charges by the former Methods for Recovery of Small Tithes are not prevented.

"3. For that the Lords, by a subsequent Amendment, have agreed this Bill to be beneficial to the Clergy, and yet have excluded the Laity from taking any Advantage by it: And the Lords have by these Amendments left the Minister at Liberty to bring his Suit upon this Bill, or not; but have absolutely subjected the Parishioner to a new Jurisdiction, without freeing him from the Danger of being grieved by the old dilatory, vexatious, and chargeable Method.

"For that the Commons are of Opinion, this Bill makes a beneficial Provision for all Parties concerned, and therefore the old Method of Suit for Small Tithes should not be continued; and that there appears to be as much Reason against the Bill itself (to which the Lords have agreed) as there is for these Amendments made by the Lords.

"The Commons disagree to the Lords Amendments in Line 30th, Pr. 5th:

"1. Because it alters the Intent of that Proviso, which was, to be a Limitation of Time within which all Claims for Small Tithes should be made or barred; whereas the Lords Amendment makes it only a Bar to any Suit founded on this Act, but leaves Liberty of Suit for the same in other Courts as before.

"2. For that there is as much Reason to limit a Time within which all Suits for Small Tithes due before the passing this Act shall be commenced, as to limit a Time within which all Suits shall be prosecuted for Small Tithes that shall become due for the future; and the Lords have agreed to a Clause in the Bill, whereby all Suits for future Dues are required to be commenced within Three Years, or else they shall be barred.

"3. For that the Commons think the First of May, 1695, a reasonable Time to be given for bringing any Suit for a Matter of so small Value, which is already due; because few People take Receipts, or call Witnesses, to testify the Payment of such little Sums; and after a Year or Two 'twould be a hard Matter for any Person that has paid his Due to prove the same; and the Proof will in this Case lie on the Defendants, who ought not to be left liable thereto for so long a Time till it will become very difficult for him to do it.

"The Commons cannot agree to the Clause marked (A):

"1. Because they think themselves in Conscience bound to mete the same Measure to all Persons, and to let all the Subjects have equal Benefit of the Laws; and therefore they conceive, as to Small Tithes, whether due to a Lay Person or an Ecclesiastical Person, the Remedy for the Recovery of them ought to be the same; for 'tis an undoubted Maxim, That where there is the same Right, there ought to be the same Remedy.

"2. The Design of the Bill being to prevent Injustice in detaining what is due, and to provide against Oppression and Vexation in sueing for those Dues which are of small Value; the Reason is the same why Laymen should have the Benefit of this Bill as well as Ecclesiastical Persons: But by this Clause an Ecclesiastical Person, who is Owner or Occupier of a Lay Impropriation (as the Lords call it), or Rectory Impropriate, or Portion of Small Tithes, shall be included in the Bill, and have the Benefit of it, though a Layman shall not. Now the Commons do not see any Reason to make any such Difference between Ecclesiastical Persons and Laymen; and are therefore of "Opinion, that where there is the same Reason, there ought to be the same Law."

Reported to be considered.

ORDERED, That the further Consideration of this Report shall be adjourned until Saturday next, at Eleven of the Clock.

Public Accompts, for taking, &c. Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act appointing and enabling Commissioners to examine, take, and state, the Public Accompts of the Kingdom."

ORDERED, That the said Bill shall be read a Second Time on the Friday next; and that all the Lords be summoned then to attend.

Message from H. C. with a Bill.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Ashurst and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for building good and defensible Ships;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Defensible Ships, for building, Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for building good and defensible Ships."

Clippers, for better Discovery of, Bill.

The Earl of Rochester reported, "That the Committee had considered the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the better Discovery of the Clippers of the Coin of this Kingdom;" and heard the Goldsmiths: And their Lordships are of Opinion, this Bill will not give a Stop to Clipping; that the Clippings will be coined into old Money; the Clipper will whiten Copper so as it's not discoverable by the Eye from good Money; and, if the Bill pass, it will be a Prohibition of the Importation of Bullion: And therefore the Committee have not thought fit to proceed further thereon."

Militia Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for raising the Militia of this Kingdom for the Year One Thousand Six Hundred Ninety-four, although the Month's Pay formerly advanced be not re-paid."

ORDERED, That the said Bill shall be committed to a Committee of the whole House, presently.

Then the House was adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee, upon the said Bill.

And, after some Time, the House was resumed.

And the Earl of Manchester reported, "That the Committee had gone through the said Bill; and think it fit to pass, without any Amendment."

To which the House agreed.

Privateers, for better Encouragement of, Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the better Encouragement of Privateers."

ORDERED, That the said Bill shall be committed to a Committee of the whole House, To-morrow, at Eleven of the Clock; and that Sir Charles Hedges and some of the Commissioners for Prizes do then attend, and any other Persons concerned.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Jovis, (videlicet,) 19^um diem instantis Aprilis, hora undecima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.