House of Lords Journal Volume 13: 23 May 1678

Anno 30 Caroli Secundi.

REX.

MEMORANDUM, quod hodierno die, (videlicet) die Jovis, 23° die Maii, Anno Regni Serenissimi Domini nostri Caroli Secundi, Dei Gratia, Angliæ, Scotiæ, Franciæ, et Hiberniæ, Regis, Fidei Defensoris, &c. Tricesimo; in quem diem, post separales Prorogationes, Parliamentum, inchoatum Octavo die Maii, Anno dicti Domini Regis 13°, continuatum fuerat, Decima sexta ejusdem Parliamenti Sessio incepta est apud Westm.; quo die Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum Nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

King present.

His Majesty, sitting in His Royal Throne, adorned with His Regal Crown and Ornaments (the Peers being likewise in their Robes), commanded the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod to give the House of Commons Notice, "That it is His Majesty's Pleasure that "they attend Him presently, with their Speaker."

Who being come, His Majesty made the Speech following:

King's Speech.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"When I met you last, I asked your Advice upon the great Conjunctures Abroad. What Return you Gentlemen of the House of Commons made Me, and whether it was suitable to the End I intended (which was the Saving of Flanders), I leave it to yourselves, in cold Blood, to consider. Since I asked your Advice, the Conjunctures Abroad and our Distempers (which influenced them so much) have driven Things violently on towards a Peace; and where they will end, I cannot tell; but will say this only to you, That I am resolved, as far as I am able, to save Flanders, either by a War or a Peace, which Way soever I shall find most conducing towards it; and that must be judged by Circumstances, as they play from Abroad. For My own Part, I should think, being armed, were as necessary to make Peace, as War; and therefore, if I were able, would keep up My Army, and My Navy at Sea, for some Time, till a Peace were concluded, if that must be; but, because that will depend upon your Supplies, I leave it to you to consider whether to provide for their Subsistence so long, or for their disbanding sooner, and to take Care, in either Case, not to discourage or use ill so many worthy Gentlemen and brave Men, who came to offer their Lives and Service to their Country upon this Occasion; and in Pursuit of your own Advices and Resolutions. I must put you likewise in Mind of a Branch of My Revenue, which is now expiring; and of another greater, which is cut off by a Clause in the Poll Bill; as also of the Two Hundred Thousand Pounds taken up upon the Credit of the Excise at your Request. And I desire your Resolutions may be speedy, because the present Necessity requires it. And I shall consent to any reasonable Bills you offer Me for the Good and Safety of the Nation.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"I shall say no more, but only to assure you (whatsoever some ill Men would have believed) I never had any Intentions but of Good to you and My People, nor ever shall; but will do all that I can for your Safety and Ease, as far as yourselves will suffer Me. And since these are My Resolutions, I desire you will not drive Me into Extremity, which must end ill both for you and Me, and (which is worst of all) for the Nation, which we ought all to have equal Care of; therefore I desire we may prevent any Disorders or Mischiefs that may befal them by our Disagreement; and in case they do, I shall leave it to God Almighty to judge between us, who is the Occasion of it.

"One Thing more I have to add; and that is, to let you know, That I will never more suffer the Course and Method of passing Laws to be changed; and that if several Matters shall ever again be tacked together in One Bill, that Bill shall certainly be lost, let the Importance of it be never so great.

"The rest I leave to My Lord Chancellor."

Then the Lord Chancellor made this Speech following:

L. Chancellor's Speech.

"My Lords; and you the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses of the House of Commons;

"That which remains to be said by His Majesty's Command will fall under these Considerations; the present State of Christendom in reference to a general Peace, then the Influence that Peace is like to have upon us; and the Necessity of returning to some better Kind of Intelligence amongst ourselves than we had when we parted last.

"The Advances which have been made Abroad towards a Peace, though they may have been hastened by some late Occurrences, yet they were long since meditated and prepared there; for when The States Generall did perceive, that though they had strained themselves to the utmost, and exceeded all the Proportions which by their Treaty they were bound to furnish, yet the Spaniards failed them in every Point, not only in the Subsidies they were obliged to pay, but in the very Strength and Forces they stood engaged to set out; insomuch that all their Towns and Garrisons were so far from being in any tolerable Posture to receive an Enemy, that they remained as perfectly defenceless as if they were intended to be abandoned; The States resolved to seek all the Occasions they could of coming out of the War, and to lay Hold on the first that should offer itself.

"To this End, they did all the last Year solicit His Majesty to endeavour a Peace, and they would then have taken such a Peace as now they seek. But His Majesty thought He had done great Service to the Christian World, when He had gained Two Points upon them; First, to model and concert with Him the Terms and Articles of a better Peace; and then, in Prospect of that Peace (and without which it could never have been gained), to enter into a League Offensive and Defensive with His Majesty, to obtain that Peace by Force, if it could not be had otherwise.

"And while Things stood upon this Foot, and some Preparations were making towards it, there was no small Hopes of putting a considerable Stop to the Growth of the Power of France.

"For though the Dutch were still inclined to accept of Peace, and were hearkening after the French Propositions at Nimeguen; yet such were His Majesty's Resolutions to hold them to their League, and so constant were all His Refusals to hearken to such a Peace, or to have any Part in it, that they must of Necessity at last have been obliged to continue in the War some Way or other.

"But when once it was heard Abroad, that this League, which was the only Thing by which His Majesty could oblige The States, had been so ill understood at Home, as to meet with some very unfitting and very undeserved Reflections; as soon as it had taken Air, and they understood that there was a Resolution to give no Money until Satisfaction given in Matters of Religion, which in all Countries are the longest Debates that can be entered upon, and at this Time above all others should least have been stirred; and when at last the King had received an Address which they took to be of such a Nature as was never seen or heard of before in any State or Kingdom in the World, and had proceeded so far as to express His Resentment of it.

"Then they concluded with themselves, that it was in vam to rely any longer upon England, for England was no longer itself: Then all Sides began to wish for Peace, even Spaine as well as Holland, and if the Cessation which is endeavoured to be made in order to it take Effect, as in all Likelihood it will, we may conclude that the Peace will soon follow.

"The Influence such a Peace will have upon our Affairs is fitter for Meditation than Discourse; only this is evident, that, by the Preparations we have made for War, and the Prohibitions we have made of Trade, we have given no small Provocations to a mighty King, who may be at Leisure enough to resent them if He please. And therefore it will import us so to strengthen ourselves, both at Home and Abroad, that it may not be found a cheap or easy Thing to put an Affront upon us.

"The First Step in order to this is, to preserve a State of Peace and Unity at Home, which is now more necessary than ever: He that foments Divisions now, does more Mischief to his Country than a Foreign Enemy can do, and disarms it in a Time when all the Hands and all the Hearts we have are but enough to defend us.

"No Fears of arbitrary Government can justify, no Zeal to Religion can sanctify, such a Proceeding.

"It hath been so stale a Project to undermine the Government, by accusing it of endeavouring to introduce Popery and Tyranny, that a Man would wonder to see it taken up again.

"Have we forgotten that Religion and Liberty were never truly lost, till they were made a Handle and Pretence for Sedition? Are we so ill Historians as not to remember when Prelacy was called Popery, and Monarchy Tyranny; when the Property of Nobility and Gentry was held to be destructive of Liberty; and that it was a dangerous Thing for Men to have any Sense of their Duty and Allegiance?

"Do we know all this, and suffer Men without Doors to hope by our Divisions to arrive at the same Times again? Can we endure to see Men break the Act of Oblivion every Day, by reviving the Memory of forgotten Crimes in new Practices?

"If Fears and Jealousies can ever become wise and good Men, it is only then when there is Danger of a Relapse. No Caution can be too great against the Returns of that fatal Distemper from which we have been so lately recovered; especially when some Symptoms of it begin again to appear in printed Libels, and in several Parts of the Nation.

"It might perhaps be worth our while to consider, whether we do not bring some Kind of Scandal upon the Protestant Religion, when we seem so far to distrust the Truth and Power of it; that, after so many Laws that have been passed to guard it, after all the miraculous Deliverances from the Attempts which have been made against it, we should still be afraid of its Continuance.

It is, no Doubt, a Duty which we owe to God and to ourselves, to the present Age, and to Posterity, to improve the Opportunities God gives us of fencing our Vineyard, and making the Hedge about it as strong as we can. And the King hath commanded me to tell you, that He is ready to concur with us in any Thing of this Kind, which shall be found wanting, and which the Christian Prudence and Justice of a Parliament can propose as expedient.

"But why then do we suffer those Abroad to complain of the Dangers of Religion, who complain only for Complaining' Sake?

"Hath not the late Act made it impossible, absolutely impossible, for the most concealed Papist that is, to get into any Kind of Employment? And did ever any Law, since the Reformation, give us so great a Security as this?

"As little Cause there is to be jealous of our Liberties and Properties; nor do they believe themselves, who pretend to be afraid of either.

"Can there be a greater Evidence of the Moderation of a Prince, and His Tenderness of the Liberty of the Subject, than to suffer, as He does every Day, so much licentious and malicious Talk to pass unpunished. If there be not any One Instance to be found in a whole Reign of a Man that hath suffered against Law, and but very few Examples of those that have suffered by it, shall we endure them that dare say, in Coffee-houses and in other Public Places, that the Nation is enslaved?

"Let it be lawful to provoke and challenge the most discontented and the most unsatisfied Spirit in the Kingdom, to shew that Time, if he can, since the World began, and this Nation was first inhabited, wherein there were fewer Grievances, or less Cause of Complaint, than there is at this present; nay, give him Scope enough, and let him search all Ages, and all Places of the World, and tell us, if he can, when and where there was ever found a happier People than we are at this Day.

"And if Malice itself ought to blush when it makes this Comparison, what strange Ingratitude both to God and Man are they guilty of, who behave themselves so, as if they could be ill at Ease under so temperate a Government!

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

The King will not suffer Himself to believe it possible that you should ever forsake Him, when any Difficulties or Distresses are near Him; and therefore He doth with great Assurance expect your Care to preserve Him in the Affections of His People, as well as your Concurrence to His present Supplies.

"The Forces which have been raised, and the Ships which have been set out by your Advice, have been at a vast Charge; and yet it will be no small Expence to disband them again, and to pay them till they be disbanded.

"That Two Hundred Thousand Pounds which was borrowed at your Request remains as a Debt upon the King, unless you acquit yourselves of the Obligation which lies upon you to pay it.

"That Branch of the Revenue which expires next Month will leave the Crown in great Want, if it be not continued; and yet the Continuance of it will not prove so considerable a Support as it ought to be; for the Poll Bill hath extinguished the Duty upon French Wines, and all other Customs arising upon Trade with France; and it is worthy of the Care of a Parliament, to make this up some other Way, that so His Majesty may see and know that nothing can be lost by trusting His Parliament.

"But the King hath so far expressed Himself this Day, that 'tis evident the Manner of your Proceedings is to Him as considerable as the Matter; and that He will not accept a good Bill, how valuable soever it may be, unless it come to Him in the old and decent Method of Parliaments.

"The late Way of tacking together several independent and incoherent Matters in One Bill, seems to alter the whole Frame and Constitution of Parliaments, and consequently of the Government itself.

It takes away the King's Negative Voice in a Manner, and forces Him to take all or none, when sometimes One Part of the Bill may be as dangerous for the Kingdom as the other is necessary.

"It takes away the Negative Voice of the House of Peers too by the same Consequence; and disinherits the Lords of that Honour they were born to, the Liberty of debating and judging what is good for the Kingdom.

"It looks like a Kind of Defamation of the Government, and seems to suppose the King and House of Lords to be so ill affected to the Public, that a good Bill cannot carry itself through by the Strength of its own Reason and Justice, unless it be helped forward by being tacked to another Bill that will be favoured.

"It does at last give up the greatest Share of Legislature to the Commons, and by Consequences the chief Power of judging what Laws are best for the Kingdom.

"And yet it is a Privilege that may be made Use of against the Commons, as well as by them; for, if this Method hold, what can hinder the Lords at one Time or other from taking Advantage of a Bill very grateful to the Commons, and much desired by them, to tack a new Clause to it, of some foreign Matter, which shall not be altogether so grateful, nor so much desired; and then the Commons must take all or none too.

"Thus every good Bill shall be dearly bought at last; and One chief End of calling Parliaments, the making of good Laws, shall be wholly frustrated and disappointed; and all this by departing from that Method which the Wisdom of our Ancestors prescribed on Purpose to prevent and exclude such Inconveniencies.

"These Innovations the King resolves to abolish; and hath commanded me to say to you, State super Vias antiquas.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"There never did, there never can again, so much depend upon the happy Success of any One Meeting, as there does upon this.

"If this Session do not repair the Misfortunes, and amend the Faults of the last, it will look like a Fatality upon the Nation.

"If we do not now strengthen the Hands of the Government, and shame the Enemies of it, by banishing all Manner of Distrust, we shall be in Danger to become, not only the most miserable, but the most unpitied Nation under Heaven.

"Let not the Whispers, or evil Surmises, of those who lie in Wait to deceive, make any Man the unhappy Occasion of endangering the Safety of the Government, by mistrusting it.

"He whose House is destroyed by Fire, would find but little Consolation in saying the Fire did not begin by his Means; but it will be Matter of perpetual Anguish and Vexation of Heart to remember, that it was in his Power to have extinguished it.

Let the World now see, that your Zeal to preserve the Government is the same it was when you were ready to die for its Restoration; and know, 'tis an Act as meritorious, and an Act of as great Duty and Loyalty to stand between the King, and all those Practices of Libelers which tend to create a Misunderstanding between Him and His Parliament, as it is to fight for Him in a Day of Battle.

Embellish the History of this Parliament, by shewing us the healing Virtue of this Session. So shall your Service be acceptable to the King, who never forgets any Thing but Injuries; so shall you recommend yourselves to Posterity, by transmitting to them the same Peace, and Happiness you are trusted with.

And the God of Peace and Unity prosper all your Consultations to the Honour and Happiness of the King, and the Joy and Comfort of all His good Subjects."

Protestant Strangers Relief Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for providing Relief for poor Protestant Strangers."

Committee for Privileges.

Lords Committees appointed to consider of the Customs and Orders of the House of Peers, and Privileges of the Parliament, and of the Peers of this Kingdom and Lords of Parliament.

Their Lordships, or any Seven of them; to meet on Monday next, and every Monday after, at Three of the Clock, in the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

Committee for the Journal.

Lords Sub-committees appointed to consider of the Orders and Customs of the House, and Privileges of the Peers of this Kingdom and Lords of Parliament; and to peruse and perfect the Journal Book.

Their Lordships, or any Three of them; to meet on Saturday next, at Three of the Clock, in the Afternoon, in, or any where near, the House of Peers; and after, when, and as often as, they please.

Committee for Petitions.

Lords Committees appointed by the House, to receive and consider of Petitions, and afterwards to make Report thereof to the House.

Their Lordships, or any Five of them; to meet on Tuesday next, and every Tuesday after, at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber; and to adjourn themselves as they please.

Address for printing the King's and Chancellor's Speeches.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That His Majesty be humbly desired from this House, That the Speech which His Majesty made this Day in the House of Peers to both Houses, as also the Speech made by the Lord Chancellor to both Houses by His Majesty's Command, may be printed and published.

ORDERED, &c. That the Lords with White Staves attend His Majesty with the humble Desire of this House, for printing His Speech made this Day in this House, as also the Lord Chancellor's Speech made this Day.

Committee for the Journal, to meet after a Session, Standing Order.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords Sub-committees for Privileges and Perusal of the Journal Book have hereby Power given them to examine so much of the Journal Book of this House as was left unexamined at the last Prorogation; and that, for the future, the said Lords Sub-committees are hereby empowered to meet after every Session, for examining of so much of the Journal Book as shall be left unexamined at the Time of the Ending of such Session, without any further Order.

Villiers' Claim to the Title of Vise. Purbeck.

Whereas this House hath heard Counsel, at the Bar, on the Behalf of the Petitioner, who claims the Title of Viscount Purbeck, to make out his said Claim:

It is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear the King's Attorney General, on His Majesty's Behalf, upon the whole Matter of Fact and Law relating to the said Claim, on Monday the Third Day of June next, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; and that the Petitioner have Notice given him of this Order.

Disorders in the Painted Chamber, and Rooms near the House.

Upon Complaint made to this House, of sundry Disorders frequently committed in the Painted Chamber, and other Rooms belonging to the House of Peers.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That it be, and is hereby, referred to the Lords Committees for Privileges, to peruse what Orders have heretofore been made for Remedy thereof, and to consider what is fit to be further done in this Case; and make Report thereof unto the House.

Denyes versus Frazier and Denyes.

Whereas, upon hearing Counsel, upon the Petition of Frances Denyes, and the Answer of Sir Alexander Fraizer thereunto, it was ordered to hear Counsel again, to urge such Precedents of the Court of Chancery as they shall think fit to offer to the Consideration of this House, on the Behalf of the said Sir Alexander Fraizer, pertinent to the present Case:

It is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear Counsel, at the Bar, upon the same Point, on Monday the 27th Day of this Instant May, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; whereof the said Frances Denyes is to cause timely Notice to be given to the said Sir Alexander Fraizer, for that Purpose.

Forster et al. versus Armorer et al.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear Counsel, at the Bar, upon the Petition of John Forster Esquire, Robert Clerke, George Clerke, and others, depending in this House, against Thomas Armorer, Jane Pringle, and others, concerning some Estates settled by Thomas Carr Esquire, deceased, Lord of the Manor of Cornehill, in the County Palatine of Durham, and other Matters in the said Petition contained, on Tuesday the 28th Day of this Instant May, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; whereof the Petitioners are to cause timely Notice to be given to the said Thomas Armorer, Jane Pringle, and other Persons concerned, or their Agent in the said Cause.

Darrell versus Whitchcot.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will read the Replication of Marmaduke Darrell Esquire, to the Answer of Sir Paul Whitchcot Baronet, put in to the Petition of the said Marmaduke Darrell, depending in this House, on Thursday, the Thirtieth Day of this Instant May, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon.

Neilder versus Kendall.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear Counsel, at the Bar, on both Parts, on the Merits of the Cause, upon the Petition of Henry Neilder and Johanna his Wife Plaintiffs, against Thomas Kendall and Mary his Wife Defendants, on Friday the 31th Day of this Instant May, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; whereof the Petitioners are to cause timely Notice to be given to the said Defendants, for that Purpose.

Cusack versus Vile. Dunganon.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear Counsel on both Parts, at the Bar, upon the Matters complained of in the Petition of John Cusack Gentleman, depending in this House, against the Lord Viscount Dunganon, of the Kingdom of Ireland, and Nicolas Bolton, on Saturday the First Day of June next, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon, whereof the Petitioner is to cause timely Notice to be given to the said Lord Dunganon and Nicolas Bolton, or their Agent here in England for the said Cause.

Starr versus Sherwill.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear Counsel, at the Bar, on both Parts, in the Cause depending between Robert Starr and Thomas Sherwill, on Tuesday, the 4th Day of June next, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; whereof the said Rob't Starr is to cause timely Notice to be given to the said Thomas Sherwill for that Purpose.

Cottington versus Angela Gallina his Wife.

Whereas Charles Cottington Esquire hath petitioned this House, appealing from a Judgement of the Commissioners Delegates, concerning a Contract of Marriage made between him and one Angela Margarita Gallina, whom the Judge of the Court of Arches here and the said Delegates have adjudged to be his Wife, and other Matters in the said Petition set forth:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That it be, and is hereby, referred to the Lords Committees for Privileges, &c. to consider whether the said Appeal be properly brought before this House; whose Lordships are to hear His Majesty's Attorney General, and Advocate upon that Point, and also the Counsel of the Petitioner, to maintain the Property of the Appeal, if he think fit: And their Lordships are to search what Precedents they can find suitable to the present Case; and having considered thereof, and what else shall be offered to their Lordships, they are to make Report thereupon unto the House.

L. Powis, Privilege. Evans, his Servant, arrested.

Whereas, upon Complaint made to this House, "That, on or about the 9th Day of March last, John Evans (owned by the Earl of Powis, a Peer of this Realm, to be his menial Servant, and Receiver of his Rents) was arrested, and detained in Prison in the Gaol of Poole, in the County of Montgomery (then sitting the Parliament), contrary to the Privilege of Parliament; it was, on the 19th of the same Month of March, ordered, That the said John Evans should be forthwith discharged; and that Gerard Herbert, Mathew Morris, Thomas Hodson, Henry Kiffin, Evan Thomas, and Thomas Griffith, should appear at the Bar, to answer to the said Complaint of Breach of Privilege:"

Pierce, Herbert, et al. to be attached for not releasing him.

It appearing, by the Affidavit of Thomas Jones, of Kandusell, "That John Peirce refused to discharge the said John Evans; and that the said Thomas Hodson, Henry Kiffin, and Thomas Griffith, refused to obey the Order of this House; and that due Notice was given for the Appearance of all the said Persons summoned, which they have not obeyed;" it is thereupon ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, or his Deputy or Deputies, shall forthwith attach the Bodies of the said John Peirce, Gerard Herbert, Mathew Morris, Thomas Hodson, Henry Kiffin, Evan Thomas, and Thomas Griffith, and bring them in safe Custody to the Bar of this House, to answer for their said Contempts; and this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

To Sir GeorgeCharnock Knight, Serjeant at Arms attending this House, his Deputy and Deputies, and to all Mayors, Sheriffs, Bailiffs, Constables, and other His Majesty's Officers, to be aiding and assisting in the Execution hereof.

E. of Danby takes the Oaths.

This Day Thomas Earl of Danby, Lord High Treasurer of England, took the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance, and subscribed the Declaration against Transubstantiation, pursuant to the Act for preventing the Dangers which may happen from Popish Recusants. The Witnesses were sworn, and examined by the Lord Chancellor, as to the Truth of his Lordship's Certificate, concerning his receiving of the LORD'S Supper.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Veneris, 24^um diem instantis Maii, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Hitherto examined by us,

J. Bridgewater.
Clarendon.
Craven.
Stafford.