House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 5 December 1690

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 10, 1688-1693. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Citation:

'House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 5 December 1690', in Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 10, 1688-1693( London, 1802), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/commons-jrnl/vol10/pp495-500 [accessed 25 November 2024].

Veneris, 5 die Decembris; 2° Gulielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Rosseter's Estate.

A BILL to enable John Rosseter, Esquire, to sell Lands for Payment of Debts, was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to Sir Tho. Littleton, Sir Cha. Windham, Mr. Travers, Mr. Thornhaugh, Mr. Buscawen, Mr. Hedger, Sir Tho. Samwell, Sir Roger Puleston, Sir Jervas Elwes, Lord Falkland, Sir Wm. Honeywood, Sir Rob. Davers, Mr. Parkhurst, Mr. Blowfeild, Mr. Arnold, Mr. Biddolph, Sir Tho. Darcy, Mr. Waller, Mr. Christie, Mr. Burdett, Sir Sam. Bernadiston, Sir Walter Young, Mr. Greenvile, Sir Wm. Drake, Mr. Onslow, Mr. Hutchinson, Mr. Cooke, Mr. Slaughter, Sir Rob. Cotton, Sir Ralph Dutton, and all the Members that serve for the County of Lincolne: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Four of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

African Company.

Sir Peter Collyton presented to the House, a Bill for the settling the Affrican Trade for the best Benefit of the Nation, according to Order: And the same was received.

Bray's Estate.

An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the better enabling Jane Bray, Widow, Relict and sole Executrix of the last Will and Testament of Reignald Bray, Esquire, deceased, and others, to the speedy Raising of the Portions already appointed for her Daughters, by the said Reignald Bray, was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to Sir Tho. Littleton, Mr. Godolphin, Mr. Harcourt, Mr. Piggott, Mr. Freeman, Mr. Slaughter, Mr. Thornhaugh, Mr. Cooke, Mr. Blowfeild, Sir Wm. Honywood, Mr. Travers, Sir Tho. Darcy, Sir Geo. Willoughby, Mr. Parkhurst, Mr. St. Johns, Mr. England, Mr. Chadwick, Sir Wm. Drake, Sir Rich. How, Mr. Bowyer, Mr. Arnold, Lord Sherrard, Mr. Ash, Mr. Waller, Sir Tho. Pope Blunt, Mr. Beare, Mr. Kenyon, Mr. Hedger, Mr. Biddulph, Mr. Clarke, Mr. Onslow, and all the Members that serve for the Counties of Berks, Gloucester, and Oxon: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Four of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

York Buildings Water Company

Ordered, That the Bill for the Encouragement and carrying on and settling the Waterworks in York Buildings be read a Second time To-morrow Morning.

Reversing Judgment against Arnold.

An ingrossed Bill for reversing a Judgment given in the Court of King's Bench against John Arnold, Esquire, was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for reversing a Judgment given in the Court of King's Bench against John Arnold, Esquire.

Ordered, That Sir John Guise do carry the said Bill to the Lords; and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

Annulling Cambell's Marriage.

A Bill for the annulling and making void a Marriage between Mary Wharton, an Infant, and James Cambell, Esquire, was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to Major Vincent, Mr. Travers, Sir Christopher Musgrave, Mr. Beare, Sir Walter Young, Mr. Godolphin, Mr. Gwyn, Mr. Tayler, Sir Rob. Rich, Mr. Arnold, Sir Gilbert Clarke, Mr. Chetwyn, Serjeant Wogan, Mr. Slaughter, Mr. England, Mr. Hutchinson, Sir Cha. Sidley, Mr. Christie, Mr. Onslow, Mr. Musgrave, Colonel Birch, Sir Cha. Bloys, Sir Robert Cotton, Mr. Dowdswell, Mr. Fenwick, Mr. Harley, Mr. Dawney, Sir Rob. Edon, Sir Orlando Gee, Mr. Lampton, Sir Sam. Bernadiston, Sir Ralph Carre, Mr. Gray, Mr. Blowfeild, Sir Jervas Elwes, Mr. Rich. How, Mr. Dyott, Sir Tho. Mompesson, Mr. Ryder, Mr. Hedger, Mr. Bockenham, Mr. England, Mr. Biddolph, Sir John Brownlow, Mr. Ramsden: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Four of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber: And are impowered to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Leave of Absence.

A Motion being made, and the Question being put, That Sir Wm. Ellis have Leave to go into the Country for a Fortnight;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.



Tellers for the Yeas,	Lord Cornbury,	74.
	Mr. Godolphin,
Tellers for the Noes,	Sir Tho. Bernadiston,	59.
	Mr. Ryder,

So it was resolved in the Affirmative.

Act of Navigation respecting English Seamen.

Sir Math. Andrewes reports from the Committee to whom the Bill for suspending, during the War with France, that Part of the Act of Navigation which obliges English Ships to sail with English Seamen, That they had agreed upon several Amendments to be made to the Bill: Which they had directed him to report to the House: And which he read in his Place, with the Coherence; and afterwards, delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read throughout, and then a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

And a Clause being offered to be made Part of the Bill for Liberty to export Corn in English Ships; the same was twice read.

Resolved, That the Bill, with the said Clause, be recommitted to the same Committee to whom the Bill was committed: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Four of the Clock in the Speaker's Chamber: And it is to be an Instruction to the said Committee, That they do prepare and bring in a Clause, That all such Foreign Ships as were in the Hands of Englishmen, in the Year 1685, and which were allowed by the Act made in the First Year of the late King James, intituled, An Act to encourage the Building of Ships in England, paying the Twelve-pence per Ton by the said Act, be allowed, paying the same Duty, to navigate with Foreign Seamen.

And a Motion being made, and the Question being put, That it be an Instruction also to the said Committee, That the said Committee allow all Ships called Catts to trade for Masts during the present War;

It passed in the Negative.

Navy and Army Estimates, &c.

Sir Samuel Bernadiston, according to the Order of the Day, reported from the Committee to whom the Consideration of the Estimates and Accompts relating to the Navy, and Treasury, were referred, That the State of the Accompt of the Army appeared to them to be as followeth; viz.

Accompts of the Army; are Debtor.

To Accompt Errors as appears; viz.



	£.	s.	d.	£.	s.	d.
In Mr. Fox's Accompt is charged returned to Ireland, and with Thirty thousand Pounds lying at Chester ready to return, the Sum of	183,000	-	-
Of which Sum, in his Accompt of what paid, and in Arrear, he hath charged the Army with no more than	134,460	2	8¾
Which Sum subtracted from the former, there remains with the Army, as paid to them, the Sum of				48,539	17	3¼
More Mr. Fox hath paid to the Army, in the following Particulars; viz.
In Cloathing	24,358	4	11
In Bread	3,000	-	-
For Recruit Horse	3,200	-	-
Which Sums, the Army is Debtor for; and sinks the Arrears of its Debt				30,558	4	11
More Mr. Fox hath paid to several Troops and Regiments of Horse, as appears in his Accomptparticularly	8,933	4	9
More by ditto Accompt to the Royal Regiment of Dragoons	6,225	1	10
More to several Regiments of Foot, as by ditto Accompt given in by Mr. Fox, the Sum of	60,653	4	-
Of which Sum the said Mr. Fox alleges a Wrong done to himself, by an Allowance of the following Sum received of Mr. Harbord, being Money paid him, on Account, to the Regiments of Bolton, Castleton, and Sir George St. George, the Sum of	30,434	1	3
Which Sum subtracted from the above, there remains to be charged on the Army, to sink the Arrears in the general Accompt of its Debt	30,219	2	9
More to disbanded Regiments, which must sink the Arrears also, as plainly appears in the general Accompt, and is a double Charge	3,559	-	7½
More made paid to the Danish Regiments, which must be allowed here also, to sink the Arrears in the general Accompt	531	5	3
More made paid to the Hospitals, which must sink the Arrears, as by the general Accompt appears	156	5	-
More to reformed Officers, made paid in his particular Accompt, yet charged in the general Accompts; and therefore must sink the Arrears	814	15	9	50,438	16	5½
				129,536	18	7¾
Accompt Errors, as appears by examining and comparing the joint Accompts of Mr. Fox and Mr. Harboard, being particularly demonstrated, as followeth; viz.
Paid by Mr. Harboard to Duke Schomberg's Troops, the Sum of	450	3	-
To General Officers of the Army	14,546	2	-
To Officers Respits, allowed	360	9	8
To the Hospitals in Ireland	10,932	18	10½
To French reformed Officers	19,565	16	-
Disbanded Officers Allowance of Half-pay	4,802	8	4
To the Danes, paid	78,532	-	9
To Subsistence Money said to be paid by Mr. Harboard to the Army in general, no Particulars appearing	243,263	18	7
But in toto is £.	372,453	7	2½
Besides Carriages, Horses, &c.	£.	s.	d.
To Mr. Wharton,	4,200	-	-
To John Freeman	500	-	-
In all	4,700	-	-
Besides said to be paid to the King of Denmarke	66,827	5	-
Of which Sum, Mr. Fox does allow in his Accompt of what is due and in Arrear of the Army, but the Sum of	282,719	13	9½
Which Sum subtracted from the above, there remains to be charged to the Army's Debt to sink the Arrears, the Sum of				89,733	13	5
More, Mr. Harbord's Accompt of Provisions; viz.
Paid to Captain Shales on that Account	28,409	8	8
To Wm. Robinson, &c. on Account of Provisions	12,425	13	4
To Mr. Wright and Partners, on ditto	40,664	11	-½
To Mr. Fielding on ditto Account, for Corn	2,001	8	-
To Isaac Perera to provide Bread pro Army	56,000	-	-
To Mr. Henley for Provisions	30,834	-	-
To Mr. Hawes and Ratboard for Cheese	8,560	10	10
To Mr. Greenhill for Provisions	1,200	-	-
To Mr. Hambleton on ditto Account	60	-	-
To Mr. Pottinger on ditto Account	100	-	-
To Mr. Addison on ditto Account	2,000	-	-
To Mr. Anth. Rowe for Hay	8,500	-	-
To Major General Scravenmore on Account of Provisions	1,500	-	-
£.	192,256	1	9
Of which Sums, the Army hath yet allowed, which Mr. Harbord charges himself with, only the Sum of	4,593	-	-
Which Sum being deducted remains to be charged on the Army, to sink the Arrears of Debt, the Sum of				187,663	1	9
More paid by Mr. Harboard for Cloaths and other Necessaries for the Army to several Persons, the Sums following;
To Mr. Anderton	13,134	4	-
To Colonel Godfrey, and others, prout his Accompt	43,958	7	3
To Mr. Harnage for Coats and Surtouts, as per Accompt	5,500	-	-
To John George, and Wm. Pheasant, for Shoes	1,833	6	8
To Robert Acham for ditto	1,100	-	-
To Robert Lord, and Partners, for Shoes	2,914	8	-
To Wm. Southmede, of Exeter, Mercer, for Cloaks and Coats	72	-	-
To John Gyles, and Crawley, for Horseshoes	1,234	1	8
£.	69,746	7	7
To Recruit Horses; viz.
To Lord Overkirke, the Sum of	20,800	-	-
To Mr. Comptroller Wharton	15,400	-	-
£.	36,200	-	-
So that the foregoing Sums sinks the Accompt general of Arrears				105,946	7	7
To several Sums of Money received by Mr. Harbord, and Mr. Fox for which they should, by Warrant, deduct Poundage; and the Sums are therefore here particularly set down, that the Deduction may the plainlier appear;
Mr. Harbord received out of the Exchequer	578,848	13	4½
Received more by him from ditto	494,439	19	3
Gained by the Exchequer, of Guineas the received there, and paid in Ireland	4,131	12	6
So that Mr. Harbord, in all, received £.	1,077,	420	5
Besides paid to relieve Londonderry, unto Mat. Anderton	2,000	-	-
To Sir Wm. Gore	1,252	10	-
To Sir Jos. Allen	1,735	18	1
£.	4,988	8	1
Paid more by Mr. Harbord for Carriage Horses to Captain Shales	4,800	-	-
To Mr. Perera, on ditto Account	1,600	-	-
For Arms bought in Holland	4,255	14	8
And for Tents	3,160	19	4
£.	13,886	14	-
Mr. Fox received out of the Exchequer, as followeth; viz.
	£.	s.	d.	£.	s.	d.
At one time	43,000	-	-
More from ditto Place	23,000	-	-
More from the same Place	15,000	-	-
More from the same Place	30,000	-	-
More from ditto	41,578	6	1
More from ditto	10,000	-	-
From the Receiver of the Poll Money of Yorkshire	20,000	-	-
From the Receiver of Staffordshire	2,988	-	-
From the Receiver of Shropshire	2,000	-	-
From Mr. Morgan Whitley of Chester	5,362	-	-
By several Tallies struck by several Tradesmen	50,257	2	-½
	243,185	8	1½
The Lord Ranelagh received, out of the Exchequer, the Sum of	1,875,480	7	2½
£.	3,196,086	-	5½	512,880	1	4¾
The Poundage of which Sum of Three Millions One hundred Ninety-six thousand Eighty-six Pounds and Five-pence Halfpeny amounts to, at Twelve-pence in the Pound, the Sum of	159,804	-	-
Deduct so much of this Poundage Money, as Mr. Harbord allows in his own Charge to have stopped and disposed of, as per Accompt	12,909	3	11
So that the Remains of Poundage Money to sink the Accompt of Arrears, the aforesaid Sum of Twelve Thousand Nine hundred Nine Pounds Three Shillings and Eleven-pence being deducted, the Sum of				146,895	2	1
Accompt Errors in Days Pay, wherein that Accompt of the Regiments are all expressed, and the Days Pay particularly allowed to all of them, according to Establishment, and no Allowance being made for disbanded Regiments; so that the least that can be deducted for them by Proportion, no Muster Roll appearing, the Sum of				6,000	-	-
Which must be applied to sink the Arrears of the Army, To Cash in the Earl of Ranelagh's Hand, as appears by the Balance of his own Accompts				5,503	7	1¼
	3,196,086	-	5½	671,278	10	7
Army Debtor to Balance of this Accompt, as it now appears to us, allowing the Commissioners own Accompts, no Muster Rollsappearing, but as brought in and made up according to Establishment, without any Deduction or Allowance of dead and absent Soldiers, there remains due to the Army but				327,160	15	5¼
Accompts of the Army per contra are Creditor.
By Arrears due First October 1690, made up by Mr. Fox, &c. according to the Establishment, to the Army under the Care of Mr. Harbord, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Cognisby, as appears by the said Foxe's Accompt	648,060	14	8¼
By Arrears due to the Army under the Care of the Earl of Ranelagh, First October 1690, made up according to Establishment	211,419	4	7½
By Arrears said to be due to the Dutch Forces, according to the Establishment, to the First October 1690, as by the Earl of Ranelagh's Accompt thereof	138,959	6	9
	998,439	6	-¾

It is queried, Whether Poundage is to be allowed upon several sums paid by Mr. Harbord unto the King of Denmark, Arms bought in Holland, Tents, and Contingencies; and then there may be an Objection made of about Twenty of Thirty thousand Pounds; which not appearing to us, we leave it as the Accompt now stands.

And more to be queried in Account of Arrears, where he is charged Twenty thousand Seven hundred Ninety-six Pounds Three Shillings and Eightpence, said to be paid to the Scotch Regiment.

And that the Committee had, upon the whole Accompts of the Army come to their Hands, made several Observations, as followeth; viz.

1st, That none of the Accompts express, When the Regiments came first into Pay; although it is certain the Pay of them began at several times.

2. That there is no Time set down, when the Regiments that were broken were disbanded; so the Truth of their Payment, as to their just Time, doth not appear.

3. That these Accompts of Time being wanting, it is not possible to know, Whether there is justly due to the Army the Arrears which the Accompt mentions: But taking it de bene esse, the Deductions and Exceptions before mentioned ought to sink that Accompt of Arrears.

4. That all the Accompts of what is due and in Arrear to the Army, is calculated according to the Establishment, and not according to Muster; which could the Committee have had, their Opinion is, the Army would have been indebted to the King.

5. That there are great Sums charged in general for Contingencies, amounting in the Whole to Fifty-five thousand Four hundred Thirty-three Pounds Thirteen Shillings and Eleven-pence, of which no Particulars appear to the Committee, except some few in Mr. Harbord's Accompt.

6. That the Committee hitherto had been able only to examine the Accompt of the Army; they find, beside the Accompts from the Ordnance, Navy, and Commissioners for Transports, great Sums of Money paid for Transports, for Mr. Harbord and Mr. Fox, in the Army Accompt; viz. by Mr. Fox, Thirteen thousand Pounds; and, by Mr. Harbord, Twenty-nine thousand Two hundred Sixty Pounds Seven Shillings and Eight-pence.

7. That they find a Charge for Works and Fortifications, brought in by the Office of the Ordnance, to the Sum of Seventeen thousand Nine hundred Eighty-four Pounds Seventeen Shillings and Seven-pence Half-peny, the Particulars of which appear in that Accompt; besides which, the Lord Ranelagh charges to Garisons, Sixteen thousand Four-hundred Fifty-one Pounds Five Shillings and One Peny Three Farthings, of which he gives no Particular; and so it doth not appear to the Committee, what Accompt it doth properly belong to.

8. That the Lord Ranelagh brings in among the Arrears, what was due to the Regiments of Werden, Butler, Gage, Ellyot, Newcastle, Hamilton, and Dorrington, to clear them to the Days on which they were disbanded, the Sum of Seven thousand One hundred Eighty-six Pounds Eleven Shillings and Eleven-pence; besides Ten thousand Eight hundred Fifty-two Pounds Nine Shillings and a Peny paid to them and the Irish Guards; to Independent Companies; to Companies in New England, and Colonel Carne's Regiment, when they were disbanded: But he gives no Accompt when they were disbanded, or whether they were ever in the Service of this Government, or how the Lord Ranelagh his own Accompt stood, when the late King James went away, by which it might have appeared, Whether he had any Monies then in his Hand to pay them.

9. That the Lord Ranelagh paid to the English Forces in Flanders, out of the Product of Tin, which Sum is not yet brought to the Accompt of the particular Regiments there, Eight thousand Four hundred Pounds: The Committee, until the Lord explains it, cannot determine, Whether that Sum ought to sink the Arrears or not.

10. That the Committee having before them several Persons whom Mr. Harbord charges to have paid them Monies on Account of Provisions and Cloaths; so many of them that have appeared, do own the Money received accordingly; and say, They will bring in their Accompts: But that the Committee have wanted Time to receive them all, or to examine any, but leave that to further Time, and Directions of the House: But that, in the mean time, the Committee came to several Resolutions: Which Sir Sam. Bernadiston read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read; and are as followeth; viz.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That what Provisions have been made for the Army in Ireland, except Provisions in a Ship called the Reformation, which was cast away in the Isle of Man, ought not to be charged as a Debt to the Publick, but ought to be deducted out of their Arrears.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of the Committee, That whatever Cloathing has been made for the Armies, and brought to Accompt, ought not to be charged as a Debt to the Publick, but ought to be deducted out of the Arrears.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That whatever Sums have issued out for Recruit Horses for the Armies, ought not to be charged as a Debt to the Public, but ought to be deducted out of the Arrears.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That Twelve-pence in the Pound ought to be deducted out of whatever Monies have been issued out and paid to the Use of the Army, pursuant to his Majesty's Warrants.

Sir Sam. Bernadiston also reported from the said Committee, That they had considered the Petition of the Masters and Owners of the Transport Ships; and that they alledged, That there is due to them about the Sum of Three hundred and Twenty thousand Pounds; and that the Commissioners employed for Transport Ships, do, by their Accompt delivered in to this House the Thirtieth of October last, own, That there was then due for Transport Ships, the Sum of Two hundred Eightyfive thousand Two hundred Ninety-two Pounds Two Shillings and Five-pence: And that the Committee do humbly recommend it to the Consideration of the House, That some speedy Course be taken to pay off the said Debt; which the Committee conceive will be for the Honour of his Majesty, and Service of the Nation: For it hath also been made appear to the Committee, by several of Masters and Owners of Transport Ships, That several of them have been arrested, and do now lie under Arrests in several great Actions, by Seamen, for Wages, and other Tradesmen: That their Ships have been also arrested; and that if some speedy Course be not taken for their Relief, their said Ships will be condemned, and they, with their Wives and Children, inevitably perish.

He also acquainted the House, That the Committee had several other Things in relation to the Accompts to them referred under their Consideration: But that they were not ready as yet to make any Report to the House thereupon.

Ordered, That the said Report be taken into further Consideration upon Tuesday Morning next: And that the Persons who are concerned therein may have Copies thereof, and of the said Observations and Resolutions.

Supply Bill; East India Goods.

Then the Bill for granting certain new Impositions upon all East India Goods and Merchandize, and upon other Goods and Merchandize, to their Majesties, was ead the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House.

Ordered, That the Committee have Power to prepare and bring in a borrowing Clause to the said Bill.

Supply Bill; Wine Duties.

Then the Bill for continuing certain Impositions on Wine, Vinegar, and Tobacco, was read a Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House.

Ordered, That the Committee have Power to prepare and bring in a borrowing Clause to the said Bill.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Colonel Granvile have Leave to go into the Country for Six Days.

Commissioners of Accompts.

A Bill for appointing and enabling Commissioners to take the Publick Accompts, was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House.

Attainting Persons in Rebellion.

Resolved, That this House will, To-morrow Morning at Eleven a Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to proceed further in the Consideration of the Bill for Attainting of the Persons that are or have been in Rebellion in England and Ireland, and for confiscating their Estates, and applying the same towards the Charge of the present War.

Earl of Salisbury's Estate.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee to whom the ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for limiting the Power of James now Earl of Salisbury, to cut off the Intail of his Estate, was committed, be made upon Tuesday Morning next, at Eleven a Clock.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be revived.

Trade with France.

Ordered, That Mr. Travers and Mr. Trelawny be added to the Committee appointed to prepare and bring in a Bill for the more effectual putting in Execution the Act for prohibiting all Trade and Commerce with France.

Debtors Escapes.

Ordered, That Mr. Cooke, Mr. Beddingfeild, Mr. Stockdale, Mr. Thornhaugh, Mr. Thomson, Mr. Cooke, Mr. Lewknor, Mr. Bickerstaffe, Mr. Brockman, Mr. Henley, be added to the Committee to whom the Bill for preventing Escapes of Prisoners for Debt, and for the more effectual Relief of the Subject, in Cases of Escapes, is committed.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight a Clock.