House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 26 January 1646

DIE Lunæ, 26 die Januarii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Wilkinson.

Comes Manchester, Speaker this Day.

L. Grey excused.

The Lord Grey de Warke is excused for his not attending this House this Day.

The Speaker acquainted this House with a Letter brought to him by a Trumpeter from Oxford; which was read:

Letter from Sir T. Glemham, with One from the King.

"My Lord,

"I am commanded by His Majesty to desire your Lordship to deliver the inclosed, according to the Direction thereon; and so remain,

"My Lord,

Oxon, 24 Jan. 1645.

"Your Lordship's

"Most humble Servant,

"Tho. Glemham.

"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore."

The King's Letter follows:

Letter from the King, to remove the Objections to a Personal Treaty at Westm.

"CHARLES R.

"The procuring Peace to these Kingdoms by Treaty is so much desired by His Majesty, that no unjust Aspersions whatsoever, or any other Discouragements, shall make Him desist from doing His Endeavours therein, until He shall see it altogether impossible; and therefore have thought fitting so far only to make Reply to that Paper or Answer which He hath received of the 13th of this Instant January, as may take away those Objections which are made against His Majesty's coming to Westm.; expecting still an Answer to His Messages of the 15th and 17th, which He hopes by this Time have begotten better Thoughts and Resolutions in the Members of both Houses.

"And First, therefore, whereas in the said last Paper it is objected (as an Impediment to His Majesty's Personal Treaty), that much innocent Blood hath been shed in this War by His Majesty's Commissions, &c.; He will not now dispute, it being apparent to all the World by whom all this Blood hath been spilt; but rather presseth that there should be no more; and to that End only He hath desired this Personal Treaty, as judging it the most immediate Means to abolish so many horrid Confusions in all His Kingdoms. And it is no Argument to say, "There shall be no such Personal Treaty because there have been Wars;" it being a strong Inducement to have such a Treaty, to put an End to the War.

"Secondly, That there should be no such Personal Treaty because some of His Irish Subjects have repaired to His Assistance, it seems an Argument altogether as strange as the other; as always urging, that there should be no Physic administered because the Party is sick: And in this Particular it hath been often observed unto them, That those whom they call Irish (who have so expressed their Loyalty to their Sovereign) were indeed for the most Part such English Protestants as had been formerly sent into Ireland by the Two Houses, and impossibilitated to stay there any longer, by the Neglect of those that sent them thither, who should there have better provided for them: And for any Foreign Forces, it is too apparent that their Armies have swarmed with them, when His Majesty hath had very few or none.

"And whereas, for a Third Impediment, it is alledged, that the Prince is in the Head of an Army in the West; that there are divers Garrisons still kept in His Majesty's Obedience; and that there are Forces in Scotland; it must be as much confessed as that there is yet no Peace: And therefore it is desired, that, by such a Personal Treaty, all these Impediments may be removed. And it is not here amiss to put them in Mind, how long since His Majesty did press a Disbanding of all Forces on both Sides, the refusing whereof hath been the Cause of this Objection. And whereas Exception is taken, that there is a Time limited in the Proposition for His Majesty's Personal Treaty, thereupon inferring that He should again return to Hostility; His Majesty protesteth, that He seeks this Treaty to avoid future Hostility, and procuring a lasting Peace; and if He can meet with like Inclinations to Peace in those He desires to treat with, He will bring such Affections and Resolutions in Himself as shall end all these unhappy bloody Differences. As for those Engagements which His Majesty hath desired for His Security, whosoever will call to Mind the particular Occasions that enforced His Majesty to leave His Cities of London and Westm. will judge His Demand therein very reasonable, and necessary for His Safety: But He no way conceives how the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, Common Council, and Militia of London, are either subject or subordinate to that Authority as is alledged, as knowing neither Law nor Practice for it; and if the Two Armies be, He believes it is more than can be paralleled by any former Times in this Kingdom: Nor can His Majesty understand how His seeking of Personal Security can be any Breach of Privilege, it being likelier to be infringed by hindering His Majesty from coming freely to His Two Houses.

"As for the Objection, that His Majesty omitted to mention the settling Religion and securing the Peace of His Native Kingdom; His Majesty declares, That He conceives it was involved in His former, and hath been particularly mentioned in His latter Message, of the 15th present; but, for their better Satisfaction, He again expresses that it was, and ever shall be, both His Meaning and Endeavours in this Treaty desired.

"And it seems to Him very clear, that there is no Way for a final Ending of such Distractions as now afflict this Kingdom, but either by Treaty or Conquest; the latter of which His Majesty hopes none will have the Impudence or Impiety to wish for; and for the former, if His Personal Assistance in it be not the most likely Way, let any reasonable Man judge, when by that Means not only all unnecessary Delays will be removed, but even the greatest Difficulties made easy: And therefore He doth now again earnestly insist upon that Proposition, expecting to receive a better Answer upon mature Consideration.

"And can it be imagined that any Propositions will be so effectual, being formed before a Personal Treaty, as such as are framed and propounded upon a full Debate on both Sides?

"Wherefore His Majesty, who is most concerned in the Good of His People, and is most desirous to restore Peace and Happiness to His Three Kingdoms, doth again instantly desire an Answer to His said former Messages, to which He hath hitherto received none.

"Given at the Court at Oxford, the 24th of January, 1645.

For the Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore; to be communicated to the Two Houses of Parliament at Westm. and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland."

E. of Newport and Mr. Denham brought up from Dartmouth.

Mr. Peters acquainted this House, "That Sir Tho. Fairefaix gave him Charge of bringing the Earl of Newport and Mr. Denham safe to London, who were taken at Dartmouth; who are now come safely to London, and the Earl of Newport is at their Lordships Disposal: And farther, he was directed by the General to signify to this House, That the Earl of Newport was a Means for the delivering up of divers Forts of great Strength (fn. 1) without Forcing."

E. of Newport committed to the Black Rod.

Hereupon this House returned Mr. Peters Thanks; and Ordered, That the Earl of Newport be committed to the safe Custody of the Gentleman Usher attending this House, till the Pleasure of this House be further signified.

Message to the H. C. with the King's Letter;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by and Dr. Heath:

To communicate the King's Message to them; and to desire the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms do communicate the same to the Scotts Commissioners.

and for Capt. Roope to be Governor of Dartmouth.

2. To desire their Concurrence, that Captain Nicholas Roope, a Person of approved Fidelity to the Parliament, may be nominated and appointed to be Governor of the Town of Dartmouth, and the Forts thereunto appertaining.

Message from the H. C. with Ordinances.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Thorpe, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in these several Ordinances following:

1. A List of the Daily and Monthly Pay for Five Hundred Firelocks, for the General's Guard.

2. An Ordinance for reducing the General's Lifeguard to a Regiment of Firelocks.

Respited; and a Letter to be sent to the General, and receive his Answer herein.

3. Lieutenant General Cromwell to be continued for Six Months longer in the Service. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Order for making Sir Edward Coke Baronet to be Sheriff of Derby. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

5. For One Hundred Pounds out of Haberdashers Hall, for Major Temple. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

6. For One Hundred Pounds for Captain Badger, out of Haberdashers Hall. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

7. An Ordinance for Two Thousand Eight Hundred and One Pounds, Three Shillings, and Four Pence, for Northumb. Durham, (fn. 2) and Newcastle, out of the Excise, in Course. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

8. For Charles Vane Esquire to be One of the Deputy Lieutenants of the County of Duresme.

Respited.

9. For Rob't Clavering Esquire to be High Sheriff of the County of Northumb.

Agreed to.

10. That Charles Vane Esquire be a Committee-man of Duresme.

Agreed to.

11. An Ordinance for making Sir George Vane High Sheriff for the County Palatine of Duresme.

12. For Wm. Briscoe Esquire to be High Sheriff of the County of Cumberland.

Not Agreed to.

Ordered, To send to the House of Commons, to give Expedition to the Approbation of that Sheriff sent down from hence.

13. That there shall be raised a Regiment of Firelocks, instead of the Life-guard.

Respited.

14. A Vote concerning the Commissary General of the Horse. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

15. That the Waggon-master General, and the Muster-master General, be allowed a Carriage between them.

Agreed to.

16. That the Quarter-master General and the Muster-master General be allowed a Carriage between them.

Agreed to.

17. That Sir Thomas Fairefax be enjoined to reduce his Life-guard to a Regiment of Firelocks, &c.

Respited.

18. That the Regiment of Firelocks be taken in, and be made Part of his Army; and that the General do put Officers over them.

Respited.

Ordinance for Sir G. Vane to be Sheriff of Durham.

The Ordinance for making Sir George Vane High Sheriff for the County Palatine of Duresme, was read Twice, and committed to these Lords following:

Any Three, to meet on Friday next, in the Afternoon, at Three a Clock.

Mr. Justice Bacon and Mr. Justice Rolls, to attend.

L. Say & Seale's Claim to the Wardenship of the Cinque Ports.

The Viscount Say & Seale acquainted this (fn. 3) House, "That his Lordship's Secretary hath attended the King's Solicitor, to acquaint him with the Order of this House, concerning his Lordship's Claim to the Warden of the Cinque Ports and Constable of Dover; and his Answer is, That he is a Member of the House of Commons, and hath many Employments there: Therefore he desires their Lordships would excuse him, and appoint some of the Assistants of this House to manage the Business for the King."

Hereupon this House appointed and assigned Mr. Serjeant Godbolt, Mr. Chute, and Mr. Nudigate, and Sir Robert Berckley if he be not made uncapable by Judgement of this House, of Counsel for the King in this Business; and the Cause to be heard, at this Bar, the 17th of February next.

Message from the H.C. for the Government of Ireland to continue only One Year in the same Person;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Evelyn Knight, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in these Two Votes:

"1. Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Government of Ireland shall not be continued in any Person or Persons longer than One whole Year."

Agreed to.

and for L. Lisle to be Governor there.

"2. Resolved, That the Lords and Commons do nominate and approve of Phillip Lord Lisle, to be Chief Governor of the Kingdom of Ireland."

Resolved, upon the Question, That this House agrees to this Vote.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to these Votes now brought up.

Vane to be a Deputy Lieutenant for Durham.

Ordered, To send to the House of Commons, That whereas George Vane Esquire is presented, by Sir Henry Vane Senior, to be a Deputy Lieutenant for the County of Duresme: It is Ordered, by the Lords in Parliament assembled, That the said George Vane shall be Deputy Lieutenant of the said County of Duresme accordingly; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons to be desired herein: And this to be Part of the Message to be sent down by Dr. Aylett and Dr. Heath.

Message from the H. C. about Lilbourn's Sentence in the Star Chamber.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Rigby, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in Two Votes, concerning the unjust Sentence in the Star Chamber against John Lilborne.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will take this Message into Consideration.

Ordered, That the Sentence of the Star Chamber against John Lilburne shall be brought into this House this Day Sevennight; and then this Business shall be taken into Consideration.

Message to the H.C. with Nisbet's Ordinance; and about the March. of Winchester.

Another Part of the Message by Serjeant Ayliff and Dr. Heath shall (fn. 4) be, to desire their Concurrence for Mr. Phillip Nisbbett (fn. 5) to be Minister of Kirklington; and to recommend to them the Petition of Mr. Wilkingson; and to put them in Mind of the Lady Marquess of Winton, shewing (fn. 4) her being now in a very unbefitting Place, where she is not accommodated with Necessaries; and to let the House of Commons know, that the said Lady Marquess came to London upon the Pass of this House: and was accommodated in The Tower with Lodgings there.

Ordered, Tat the Earl of Kent and the Earl of Bolingbrook shall tender the Covenant to the Earl of Devon.

General Cromwell to be continued in his Command.

"It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Lieutenant General Cromwell shall be continued in the Command and Place of Lieutenant General of the Horse, in Sir Thomas Fairefaxe's Army, for the Space of Six Months, to be accounted from and after the Expiration of that Time for which he was last continued in the said Command and Service; and that his Service in the House be dispensed with in the mean Time."

Sir E. Coke to be Sheriff of Derby.

"The Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled do nominate and appoint Sir Edward Coke Baronet, to be Sheriff of the County of Darby; and that the Commissioners for the Great Seal of England do grant him a Commission accordingly."

Order for 100 l. to Major Temple.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That a Hundred Pounds be bestowed upon Major Temple, as a Testimony of his valiant and good Services; and that this Hundred Pounds be presently advanced and paid unto the said Major Temple, by the Committee of Lords and Commons for Advance of Monies at Habberdashers Hall, to buy him Horse."

Order for 100 l. for Captain Badger.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That One Hundred Pounds be bestowed upon Captain Badger, and paid unto him in Course, by the Committee of Lords and Commons for Advance of Monies at Habberdashers Hall, in Testimony of his good Services done to the Parliament at Hereff. and elsewhere."

Order for 2801l. 3s. 4d. for Durham, Northumberland, &c.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, that Two Thousand Eight Hundred and One Pounds, Three Shillings, and Four Pence, with Interest for the same, after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Centum, until the Payment thereof shall be paid in due Course, after other Assignments first satisfied, out of the Receipts of Excise, by Ordinance of the 11th of September, 1643, for the Use of the Bishopric of Durham, Newcastle, Northumberland, Westmerland, and Cumberland; and to be paid into the Hands of Sir Thomas Widdrington Knight, William Fenwick Esquire, George Payler Esquire, and Thomas Davison Agent for the County of Northumberland: And it is further Ordained, That if any Person or Persons shall advance and lend the said Two Thousand Eight Hundred and One Pounds, Three Shillings, and Four Pence, or any Part thereof, that then every such Person or Persons respectively, their respective Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, shall be satisfied and paid the respective Sum or Sums of Money so lent, with Interest for the same as aforesaid, for so long as the same, or any Part thereof, shall be unpaid, out of the said Receipts of the Excise, in Order and Course aforesaid; and that the Interest for the said Two Thousand Eight Hundred and One Pounds, Three Shillings, and Four Pence, shall be paid to the respective Person or Persons lending the same, or any Part thereof, their respective Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, or Assignee, at the End of every Six Months from the respective Times of Advance thereof, or any Part thereof, until the said Two Thousand Eight Hundred and One Pounds, Three Shillings, and Four Pence, and Interest, shall be paid out of the said Receipts of Excise; and the Commissioners of Excise and new Impost are hereby au thorized to make Payment of the said Two Thousand Eight Hundred and One Pounds, Three Shillings, and Four Pence, and Interest, accordingly; and the Receipt of the said Thomas Widdrington, Wm. Fenwick, George Payler, and Thomas Davison, or any Two of them, testifying the Receipt of the respective Sum or Sums of Money advanced for the Purpose aforesaid, together with the respective Receipt or Receipts of the Person or Persons levying the same, or any Part thereof, their respective Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, or Assignees, shall be a sufficient Discharge to the Commissioners of Excise, and every of them, for Payment of the said Two Thousand Eight Hundred and One Pounds, Three Shillings, and Four Pence, and Interest for the same, as aforesaid."

Clavering to be Sheriff of Northumb.

"The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament do nominate and appoint Robert Clavering, of Brenkborne, Esquire, to be High Sheriff of the County of Northumberland; and that the Commissioners of the Great Seal of England do grant him a Commission accordingly."

Commissary General of the Horse added to the Establishment.

"Resolved, &c. That in regard Sir Thomas Fairefax hath found it necessary for the Service, and employed a Commissary General of the Horse, that the Houses do allow of him to be added to the Establishment; and to have the Entertainment of the Place from the Date of his Commission, (videlicet,) Fifteen Shillings per Diem Half Pay, and Fifteen Shillings per Diem on Public Faith."