House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 9 January 1645

DIE Jovis, 9 die Januarii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Harris.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker this Day.

Merchants of The Intercourse Petition, to be relieved from Impositions.

(fn. 1) The Petition of the Merchants of The Entercourse was read; shewing,

"That whereas an Act of Parliament, 16° Carol. for imposing a Subsidy of One in the Hundred upon all Goods and Merchandize imported or exported, to be raised for the Relief of Captives, taken by Turkish, Moorish, and other Pirates; and whereas also Two several Ordinances of Parliament were made, Anno 1643 and 1644, each for adding of One Tenth Pars more of Customs and Subsidies, for the Defence of the Towns and Ports of Plymouth, the Isle of St. Nicholas, &c. which Acts and Ordinances, being general upon all Goods, were conceived by the Collectors of those Duties to include the Petitioners as well as others, so as they required and constrained them to give Bonds for the Payment thereof, before they would suffer them to take up or ship them: The Petitioners pray, that the Bonds so exacted of them as aforesaid tend to a Breach of the ancient and long-continued Treaty, and what Inconveniencies may ensue to the Merchants Adventurers in The Low Countries (who, is well known, are Five Times as many as the Petitioners are here), if they should be compelled to pay the said Impositions; and that therefore their Lordships would please to signify their Exemption from the same, and to order them to restore their several Bonds unto the Petitioners."

Ordered, That this House thinks it fit to grant this Petition; and that it be communicated to the House of Commons, to desire their Concurrence therein.

Committees to meet, to receive Business from The States Ambassadors.

The Speaker acquainted the House, "That The States Ambassador sent to his Lordship, to desire him to let this House know, that they have somewhat further to deliver to the former Committee appointed to treat with them."

Hereupon this House appointed the Committee to meet on Saturday next, in the Afternoon; and to send to the House of Commons, to desire them to appoint their Committee to meet accordingly.

Message from the H C. with Ordinances; and for a Conference on the One to exclude Members from holding Offices.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Witherington Knight, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in these Particulars:

1. An Ordinance concerning the (fn. 2) beheading the Archbishop of Canterb'y. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

2. An Ordinance concerning exempting The States Ambassadors from paying Excise, &c. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. An Ordinance for reimbursing the Commissioners of the Excise Six Thousand Pounds, advanced upon the Ordinance [ (fn. 3) for continuing] the Excise of Salt and Flesh. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. To desire a Free Conference, concerning the Matter of the last Conference, that no Members shall enjoy any Offices, &c.

Agreed, to give a present Conference as is desired.

5. An Ordinance to make good such Damage Alice Mansfield (fn. 4) hath sustained by Major General Cromwell's Regiment.

Agreed to, with an Amendment.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That to the Ordinance concerning Alice Mansfield, their Lordships will send an Answer by Messengers of their own: To all the rest of the Particulars of this Message, their Lordships do (fn. 5) agree.

Message to the H. C. with the Petitions of the Merchants of The Intercourse, and from the condemned Prisoners in Newgate; for Committees to meet, to receive Papers from The States Ambassadors; and about Lady Wilmot's Business.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Dr. Heath, which consisted of these Particulars following:

1. To deliver to them the Petition of the Merchants of The Entercourse; to let them know, that this House thinks it fit they be exempted from the paying of the Impositions, upon those Reasons expressed in their Petitions, it being a reciprocal Thing between them and our Merchants.

2. To let them know, that The States Ambassadors have signified to this House, "That they have somewhat further to deliver to the Committee."

Hereupon the Lords have appointed their Committee to meet on Saturday next, in the Afternoon, at Three a Clock; and to desire their Committee may meet with the Committee of Lords.

3. To deliver to them the Report of the Committee of Sequestration, concerning the Lady Viscountess Willmott, and desire their Confirmation of the same.

4. To deliver to them the Petition of the Prisoners condemned at Newgate, and the List of their Names (fn. 6) that are desired to be pardoned, wherein the Lords have made some Alterations, and desire their Concurrence therein.

The Earl of Manchester and the Lord North were appointed to report this Conference.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Free Conference with the House of Commons.

The House was resumed.

Report of the Conference concerning the Ordinance for excluding Members of both Houses from holding Offices, Civil or Military.

The Earl of Manchester reported, "That, at this Conference, it was delivered, That whereas their Lordships sent down to the House of Commons some Reasons, why they could not pass the Ordinance concerning exempting the Members of both Houses from Offices; and they say, they could not take the said Reasons into Consideration, because they conceive it contrary to the Privilege of Parliament, and that for these Reasons:

"1. The constant Course and Privilege of Parliament hath been, when any Bill or Ordinance hath been sent from One House to the other, that, in Case of Disagreement upon Alteration or Amendment, they have ever sent down the Bill or Ordinance, with the particular Amendment or Alteration. If the Bill or Ordinance be not sent down, they cannot compare the Alterations with the Bill or Ordinance, whereby they may judge how they agree together.

"2. And if the Amendments or Alterations be not particularly expressed, with the Part or Place of the Ordinance wherein they are to be, Mistakes cannot be avoided, nor the Way of transacting of Bills or Ordinances in both Houses be certain and regular.

"3. At the Conference, when this Paper was delivered, neither the Ordinance nor any particular Amendments or Alterations were delivered; neither by the Paper sent down doth it appear, that they have agreed to any Part of the Ordinance, nor to what Part they do disagree; and if the Reasons in this Paper were admitted, yet no Ordinance would thereby be passed; and for these Reasons, the House of Commons do conceive, that the Paper sent down is a Breach of the Privilege of Parliament, and contrary to the constant Course of Parliament; and therefore they cannot take the Matter thereof into Consideration.

"The House of Commons do conceive this Ordinance to be of so high a Concernment for the Public Good, as they do desire their Lordships Concurrence in the speedy passing of it."

Committee to consider of it.

Ordered, That the Consideration of this Paper, brought up now from the House of Commons, and the whole Business concerning this Ordinance, be referred to the same Committee as was formerly appointed to consider of this Business; and to meet this Afternoon, at Three of the Clock; and Mr. Serjeant Whitfield and Mr. Serjeant Fynch to attend.

Ordinance for beheading the Archbishop of Cant.

"Whereas William Archbishop of Canterbury stands adjudged attainted of High Treason, by Ordinance of both Houses of Parliament, and is thereby to suffer the Pains of Death, as a Person attainted of High Treason should or ought to do: It is now Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That as touching his Corporal Punishment, the Head only of the said Archbishop shall be cut off, at The Tower Hill, at the accustomed Place there used for such Purpose; and that afterwards his Head and Body shall be delivered unto his Servants, or some of them, to be by their Care buried: And it is hereby further Ordained, That the Lieutenant of The Tower of London shall, on Friday the Tenth of January, 1644, deliver the Body of the said Archbishop to the Sheriffs of London, at Tower Hill, in the accustomed Place; and that the said Sheriffs of London shall the same Day receive and execute the said Archbishop, at the accustomed Place at Tower Hill aforesaid, in such Sort, Manner, and Form only, as by this Ordinance is appointed and declared: And this present Ordinance shall be a sufficient Warrant and Discharge to the said Lieutenant of The Tower and Sheriffs of London, and every of them, in that Behalf; any Thing in the said former Ordinance, or any other Ordinance or Order of both or either House of Parliament, or any other Matter or Thing whatsoever, to the contrary notwithstanding."

Order for exempting The States Ambassadors from paying Excise.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That The States Ambassadors (being Ambassadors Extraordinary) be exempt from the Payment of any Excise, or Custom, upon the Consumption of any Flesh, Wine, Beer, or other Necessaries; and that as well for what is imported already or bought, as shall for the future be imported or bought here; for which the Steward to the said Ambassadors shall give a Note under his Hand."

Order for reimbusing the Commissioners of Excise 6000 l. advanced for the Navy.

"Whereas the Commissioners of Excise were to satisfy and reimburse themselves Six Thousand Pounds, by them advanced for the Use of the Navy, with Interest, out of the Intervals in Course upon the Excise of Flesh and Salt, as by an Ordinance of the Twenty-ninth of October, 1644, appeareth, which Monies (nor any Part thereof) is yet reimbursed: The Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled do hereby Ordain and Declare, That the said Commissioners of Excise, out of the Profits and Benefit arising from the said Ordinance of Continuation of the Excise of Flesh and Salt, of the 6th of December, 1644, shall receive so much Monies as shall reimburse themselves the said Six Thousand Pounds with Interest, as by the said recited Ordinance of the 29th of October, 1644, was intended."

Damages to be made good to Alice Mansfield.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Committee at Habberdashers Hall do forth with satisfy and pay, unto Alice Mansfeild, of Shawe, near Newberry, the Losses and Damages she sustained by the Parliament, according to an Information given to both Houses."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9^a cras.