House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 7 January 1645

DIE Martis, 7 die Januarii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Harris.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

The Speaker acquainted this House, "That he had received a Letter and a Box from the Archbishop of Canterbury:

Letter from the Archbishop of Cant. with a Pardon from the King.

My Lord,

"In the sad Condition in which I now am (as I have understood by a Warrant this Day), I could not think fit to be so wanting to myself as a Christian, or so ungrateful to His Majesty's unexpected Favour, as not to tender this His Gracious Pardon, by your Lordship, to that Honourable House; humbly conceiving, that neither this His Majesty's Gracious Pardon, nor any Person, are any Way secluded, by any Ordinance of either or both Houses of Parliament. So, laying myself at their Feet, I most humbly desire your Lordship this Pardon may be presented to their Honourable Considerations. And I shall ever rest.

Jan. 6, 1644.

"Your Lordship's humble Servant,

"W. Cant.

"For the Right Honourable my very good Lord, the Lord Gray of Werke, Speaker of the Right Honourable House of Peers."

The Pardon was commanded to be read, dated 12 April. 19° Car'l. but nothing Ordered thereupon.

The Lord North reported from the Committee of Lords and Commons for Sequestrations, the Case of the Lady Anne Viscountess Willmott; videlicet,

Report concerning Lady Willmot's Case.

"In Case of the Lady Anne Viscountess Willmott, Wife to Henry Lord Viscount Willmott, referred to this Committee by Order of both Houses of Parliament; upon Perusal of the said Lady's Deed of Jointure, made by Sir Francis Henry Lee her former Husband, 30 Junii, 13° Car'l, unto Sir John St. John Knight and Baronet, and others, in Trust for her after the Decease of her said Husband; and upon Proofs thereof made, and of the good Affections of the said Lady, and the many good Services she hath done for the Parliament; and it being alledged, that it was agreed to (fn. 1) by the said Lord Wilmott, before his Intermarriage with her, that she should enjoy her Jointure to her own Use; and some Proofs made that she did receive the Rents and Profits thereof accordingly till the Sequestration: It is (upon the whole Matter) the Opinion of this Committee, and they think fit, that she shall enjoy to her own Use only, and not to the Use of her said Husband, her said Jointure Lands contained in the said Deed; videlicet, The Upper Uppings, Longclose, Lower Uppings, Billingsfeild, Long Furlonge, Broad Mead, Westbury Meade, with the Appurtenances, in Quarenden, Quorundon, &c. in Com. Bucks, to her own Use as aforesaid, discharged of the Sequestration: And this to be First reported to the Houses, for their Approbation thereof."

Ordered, That this House approves of the Opinion of the Committee; and that it be sent to the House of Commons, to desire their Concurrence therein.

Archbishop of Cant's Petition, to have some of his Chaplains with him.

A Petition of Wm. Archbishop of Cant. was read;

"Humbly shewing,

"That their Lordships poor Petitioner, in much Affliction for the Censure which is past against him by both the Honourable Houses of Parliament, and much more for that than that he is to leave the World in such a penal Way; yet, since his Gray Head must needs go with this Sorrow to its Grave, unless the same Power shall be honourably pleased, for his Age and Calling's Sake, to alter the Punishment, he most humbly prayeth, that their Lordships will be pleased to give Order, That Dr. Marten, Dr. Haywood, Dr. Sterne, or some of them, having been his Chaplains, may, by your Lordships Favour (though they be now Prisoners in Ely House), have Liberty to come to comfort and assist him in this Time of his Affliction; he being desirous not to have any Strangers about him at this Time, and no other of his Acquaintance being present in London.

"W. Cant."

His Chaplain & to attend him.

This House thought fit to give Leave that the Persons aforesaid have Liberty to go to the Archbishop of Canterbury, as he desires; provided the Keeper in whose Custody they are do go with them, and see they return again to the Prison where they are.

The Archbishop to be beheaded.

And considering the great Places the Archbishop hath been in, their Lordships incline that he may have that Favour shewed, as to have his Head struck off, and not hanged.

Message to the H. C. to communicate something about him at the Conference.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To desire that, at the next Conference, their Lordships may impart somewhat to them concerning the Archbishop.

The Answer returned:

Answer.

That they will give a present Conference, as is desired, concerning what their Lordships shall offer concerning the Archbishop of Cant.

Message the H. C. with a Paper about the Manne. of the Treaty;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Wm. Lewis:

To present to their Lordships a Paper concerning the Manner of the Treaty; and (fn. 2) desiring their Lordships would concur, that the same may be communicated to the Commissioners of Scotland.

Agreed to.

and about Printing the Ordinances to establish the Directory.

2. To desire their Lordships Concurrence in an Order, concerning the Printing of the Ordinance concerning the establishing of the Directory.

Scots Commissioners to be consulted about it.

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Earl of Manchester and the Lord Wharton do speak with the Scotts Commissioners, to know whether they have Power to give Way to the Printing of the Directory, before the Parliament hear an Answer from the Parliament of Scotland; and to report to this House their Answers; and in the mean (fn. 2) Time the Printing of the Directory to be suspended.

Heads for the Conference about the Archbishop of Cant. and the Ordinance for excluding the Members of both Houses from holding Offices, Civil or Military.

The Speaker, at this Conference, was to read and deliver to the House of Commons the Paper concerning the Ordinance touching the exempting of the Members of either House from enjoying Offices; and to communicate to them the Archbishop's Pardon, and to let them know, that this Pardon doth nothing alter their Lordships Judgement, but that the Archbishop of Canterbury ought to suffer according to the Judgement passed against him; and also to communicate unto them the Archbishop's Petition for the Three Divines to come to him, with their Sense upon it; and to desire their Concurrence, that the Archbishop may not be hanged, but have his Head cut off.

The Lords went to the Conference; and the House was adjourned during Pleasure.

Ordinance for paying the Guards, &c. on the River Thomas.

The House being resumed, the Ordinance concerning the paying of the Guards and Forts upon the River of Thames was read, and Agreed to.

(Here enter it.)

Ships, &c. desired, for the Defence of the Isle of Wight.

The Earl of Pembrooke signified to this House, That he was informed, that the King's Forces being about settling themselves at Christ Church, will be very prejudicial to the Safety of the Isle of Wight; and therefore desired that some Course may be taken, that some Ships and Provisions may be sent, to secure the Isle."

Hereupon this House appointed the Earl of Pembrooke to go to the Committee of both Kingdoms, to desire that they would speedily take some Course herein.

Order for paying the Guards employed in Defence of the River Treasur.

"Whereas, in these Times of imminent Danger, Two Block-houses have been set up, on the North and South Sides of the River of Thames above Bridge, and a Pinnace appointed below Bridge, near Lymehouse, for Security of the River; for the guarding whereof, several Officers and Soldiers are appointed, and have constantly attended that Service for the Space of Five Months, for which Time they have as yet received no Pay: It is therefore Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That, for the Payment of the Arrears due unto the said Officers and Soldiers for the said Five Months, the Commissioners of Excise and new Impost do pay, or cause to be paid, out of the Monies arising upon the Ordinance of the 11th of September, 1643, unto the Committees of London for Fortifications, the Sum of Two Hundred Eighty-three Pounds, Five Shillings, Seven Pence; and that, for the future Main tenance of the said Officers and Soldiers so attending, they do pay, or cause to be paid, out of the said Monies, unto the said Committees, Monthly, for and during the Space of Six Months next ensuing from the End of the said Five Months, the Sum of Fiftysix Pounds; and the Receipt or Receipts of Thomas Nowell, Treasurer to the said Committee, or of such other Treasurer as shall be for the Time being, shall be from Time to Time their sufficient Discharge, the same to be allowed them upon Accompt: Provided, and be it Ordained by Authority aforesaid, That the said Officers and Soldiers, shall be authorized and obliged hereby to do and execute all Things tending to the Service of the Excise, according as they shall receive Instructions from the said Commissioners, without any further Salary or Allowance to them or any of them made; wherein if any the said Officers and Soldiers shall refuse or neglect, or do any Thing contrary to any the Ordinances of Excise, the said Committees of Fortifications are required, upon Certificate under the Hands of the said Commissioners of Excise, to discharge any such Soldiers or Officer from any further Attendance in that Service."

Lords Reasons for not assenting to the Ordinance, for excluding Members of both Houses from holding Offices, Civil or Military.

"This Ordinance contains in it Matters of Importance and extraordinary Nature; and it hath usually been the Practice, that Ordinances that have carried with them great Alterations have had such Introductions, as have set forth the Advantages and Necessities thereof, the better to satisfy the World of the Justness of our Proceedings.

"The putting every Member of either House of Parliament into an Incapacity of holding Military or Civil Offices during this War, may be of very dangerous Consequence; because, how emergent soever the Occasion may be, it cannot be altered without deserting of a positive Rule imposed upon ourselves; yet, that the World with their own Consciences may bear Witness, that they are as willing as any others to sacrifice not only their Places and Offices, but what is dearest to them, for the Good of Religion and the Kingdom, they are willing that all Places, Civil or Military, shall be disposed of as both Houses shall judge may contribute most for the Good of the Public, any Crime or just Exception being given against such as are now intrusted with Offices or Commands; but they can in no Wife consent to put an Incapacity upon themselves, and be made in a worse Condition than any free Subject.

"As to that Part of the Ordinance which does bar the Peerage from Military Command both by Sea and Land, we cannot consent unto, for these Reasons:

"1. First, it deprives the Peers of that Honour which in all Ages hath been given unto them, as may appear by many Writers; whose Part was, in being employed to Military Commands. It also crosses the constant Practice of the Peers of England; for our Stories make Mention, that in all Ages they have been principally active, to the Effusion of their Blood, and the Hazard of their Estates and Fortunes, in regaining and maintaining the fundamental Laws of the Land, the Rights and Liberties of the Subject; nor was there ever any Battle fought for those Ends, wherein the Nobility have not been employed in Places of chiefest Trust and Command; and it doth not only deprive them of their due Honour, but it lays a Blot upon them, by the Incapacity, which is a Punishment usually inflicted upon Delinquents, and such as have highly demerited from the Parliament.

"Though some few of the Gentry and Commons as Members of Parliament are excepted, yet the rest of the Gentry and Commons of the Kingdom may have Liberty to discharge their Duty, and the Honour to carry on this Cause without the Peers; so as the Case is not alike between the Two Houses, in Point of excluding the Members of both Houses from Military Employments.

"They have, since these unhappy Wars, engaged themselves by Protestation and Covenant to assist in this Cause, as well with their Lives as Fortunes: By this Ordinance, they are wholly disabled to perform any Military Service; which is contrary to their Protestation and Covenant.

"The passing this Ordinance, as to the Military Part, will produce such an Alteration in all the Armies, as in apparent Probability must be of very dangerous Consequence to the Cause in Hand, especially in this Conjuncture of Time; and therefore, until a new Model be propounded to succeed, they cannot but think this present Frame better than such a Confusion which is like to follow. Nor can we tarry long in the Expectation of what new Model, because the Preparation of it is already referred to the Consideration of the Committee of the Two Kingdoms, where the Commissioners of Scotland will contribute their Advice, and receive their Satisfaction in it; for, since the whole Scottish Nation are united with us in this great Cause, and cannot but extremely suffer in the Miscarriage of our Armies, and that we have engaged ourselves to them, that the Affairs of both Kingdoms, in Pursuance of our Covenant, shall be managed by the joint Advice and Direction of both Nations, it is very considerable how far we shall adventure upon so dangerous an Attempt, as is the introducing of so great a Change in the whole Management of our War, without our advising or consulting with them."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9^a cras.