House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 27 November 1640

DIE Veneris, videlicet, 27 Novembris.

PRAYERS.

E of Winchelsea's Bill

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, An Act to enable the Sale and Leasing of Lands, for the Payment of the Earl of Winchelsea's Debts.

And, being put to the Qustion, it was Agreed, nemine dissentiente.

This Day was read the Petition of Charles Longevile, Esquire, which he presented to His Majesty, and the Reference from His Majesty to this Honourable House, as it followeth, in hæc verba.

"To the King's most Excellent Majesty.

CHARLES R.

Mr Longuevile's Petition for the Baronies of Ruthin and Hastings.

The humble Petition of Charles Longevile, Esquire, Cousin and next Heir of Henry, late Earl of Kent, Lord Hastings and Rutbin, deceased.

"Humbly shewing, That Reginald Gray, your Petitioner's Ancestor, whose Heir he is, was seized, to him and his Heirs, as of Fee and Right, of the Dignities of Lord Hastings and Rutbin; that is to say, of the Title of Lord Hastings, by Descent from Elizabeth his Mother, Daughter and Heir to John Lord Hastings; and of the Title of Lord Ruthin, by Descent from Roger Lord Grey of Ruthin, his Father; and, being so seized, was divers Times, in the Reign of Your Majesty's Royal Predecessor King Edward the Third, summoned unto the High Court of Parliament, by the Name of Reginald Gray of Ruthin, and accordingly sat therein, and of the said Titles and Dignities died seized; and, by divers Mesne Descents, the said Dignities descended unto Edmond Gray, Knight, who, by reason thereof, was seized of the Dignities, as of Fee, to him and his Heirs; and, being so seized, the said Edmond, by the Name of Edmond Lord Hastings and Ruthin, was, by the Letters Patents of Your Majesty's Predecessor King Edward the Fourth, created Earl of Kent, to him and the Heirs Males of His Body begotten; and shordy after of the Dignities aforesaid died seized; after whose Decease, the said Title of Earl of Kent, and of Lord Hastings and Ruthin, by divers Mesne Descents, did descend and come to Sir Henry Gray, Knight, Cousin and Heir of the said Edmond, by reason whereof he became of the said Dignities seized; that is to say, of the said Title of Earl of Kent to him and the Heirs Males of the Body of the said Edmond, and of the said Title of Lord Hastings and Ruthin to him and his Heirs and thereof died seized, without issue of his Body begotten; by Means whereof, as the said Title of Earl of Kent is descended and come to the Right Honourable Anthony now Earl of Kent, as Heir Male of the Body of the said Edmond, so the said Dignities of Lord Hastings and Ruthin are of Right descended to Your Petitioner, as rightful Cousin and Heir of the said Reginald, and Nephew and next Heir of the said Henry

Earl of Kent; that is to say, Son and Heir of Susan late Wife of Sir Michaell Longevile, Sister and Heir of the said Henry.

"May it therefore please Your most Excellent Majesty graciously to give Command for Your Petitioner's Summons to this present Parliament, there to sit and enjoy the Place and Pre-eminencies to the said Dignities to him descended, and of Right belonging; and Your Petitioner shall daily pray for your Majesty's long and prosperous Reign over us."

His Majesty's Reference:

Reference from the King.

"At Our Court at Whitehall, 25th of November 1640. We are graciously pleased to refer this Petition, and the Consideration and Determination thereof, and of the Petitioner's Claim and Title, to the Peers of Our Parliament. And Our Will and Pleasure is, That Justice and Right be thereupon done."

Order.

Hereupon it was referred to the Committee of Privileges; and the Lord Ruthin to have Notice of it, and a Copy of the Petition.

Examination of Privy Counsellors, &c. upon Oath.

Afterwards the House took into Consideration to give Resolution to those Heads of the Message from the House of Commons which are not resolved of, whereby to give an Answer to the Commons; and the Particular that was debated was, "The Examination of Privy Counsellors and Assistants of this House upon Oath;" for the freer Debate whereof, the House was adjourned into a Committee; and being resumed, it was Ordered, That all such Peers of this Honourable House as shall be required shall, for this Time, and upon this Occasion, be examined upon Oath; and that all the Assistants shall be likewise examined upon Oath, if it be required.

Touchingsome Members of the H. C being present at the Examination of Witnesses in the Earl of Strafford's Cause.

And for the other Part, which was about "some Members of the House of Commons to be present at the Examinations," the House resolved of a Conference with the House of Commons, with a select Committee; whose Names follow:

The Names of the Lords appointed for the Conference with the House of Commons:

Message to the H C. for a Conference concerning this.

A Message was sent, by the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas and Mr. Justice Barkly, to the House of Commons, to this Effect:

That the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in the High Court of Parliament assembled, do desire a Conference, with a select Committee of Thirty Lords, touching the whole Matter of their Message, and a free Conference touching some Members of their House to be present at the Examination of Witnesses; and this to be presently, in the Painted Chamber, if it may stand with their Conveniency.

Answer.

The House of Commons return this Answer.

That they will send an Answer, in convenient Time, by Messengers of their own.

This Day the Petition of the Earl of Strafford was read, in hæc verba:

Petition of the E of Strafford, that no Witnesses be examined till he puts in his Answer, and then he to have their Names, that he may occasionally except against, or cross-examine them.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in the High Court of Parliament assembled.

"The humble Petition of Thomas Earl of Strafford, His Majesty's Lieutenant General of Ireland.

"Most humbly sheweth,

"That, in Obedience to your Lordship's Order, and in due Acknowledgement of your Lordships Noble Justice and Respect vouchsafed this your Petitioner the other Day, he now expresseth in Writing that humble Request he made then concerning the Examining of Witnesses, which, with your Lordships Favour, was this.

"That there might be no Admission of any Examination of Witnesses in this Cause till your Petitioner had put in his Answer to the Charge of Treason exhibited against him.

"That, after Answer, no Witness should be examined before your Petitioner had the Name of such Witness delivered unto him by your Lordships Order, to the Intent (as by his Counsel he should be advised) he might either except against such Witness, or cross-examine him.

"And that, before either of these Two Points should be overruled against your Petitioner, your Lordships might be Honourably pleased to hear him, by his Counsel, at the Bar, to shew Cause why he humbly conceives his Desires herein to be just and reasonable.

"Finally, the Petitioner humbly craves your Lordships Remission, if his Petitions be not so formal or pertinent as they both ought and might be, if he had the Help of Counsel; and shall ever, with all Expression of Duty and Thankfulness, retain in full Memory your Lordships most Honourable Justice and Noble Respects to your Petitioner the other Day, and pay your Lordships the Duties of his whole Life for the same.

"And always and unfeignedly pray for your most Noble Lordships Increase of all lasting Honour and Happiness."

Order thereupon.

Whereupon it was Ordered, That no Examinations are to be taken before the Earl of Strafford hath put in his Answer; and that no Counsel shall be heard at Bar, as is desired in the Petition.

Precedents to be searched for touching Exception against Witnesses.

And as touching the delivering the Names of Witnesses to the Earl of Strafford before their Examination, whereby he might except against them, or crossexamine them, their Lordships thought it fit to defer the Consideration of this until To-morrow Morning, against which Time the Lord Keeper was desired by the House to give Order to the Clerks and Ministers of some Court of Justice, to search out for some Precedents of this Nature, the better to inform the House, as they shall see Cause.

E of Strafford's Counsel.

The House was pleased to assign Counsel to the Earl of Strafford, according to a List presented by him; and those which the House did assign were these as followeth:

Counsel:

Mr. Richard Lane.
Serjeant Rowles.
Mr. Recorder of London.
Mr. Platt.
Mr. George Lowe.
Mr. John Lightfoote.
Mr. Hugh Wyndham.

Any of these Counsellors have Liberty to be excused, if they can alledge any just Excuse.

The aforesaid Counsellors are appointed to wait upon the House To-morrow Morning.

Lord Hunsdon introduced.

This Day the Lord Hunsden was introducted, in his Robes; and, after he had delivered his Writ of Summons to Parliament, upon his Knee, to the Lord Keeper, who delivered it to the Clerk, he was led between the Lord North and the Lord Kymbolton, and placed next below the Lord Chandois.

Lords to ask leave before they visit the E. of Strafford.

Memorandum, That the former Order, made by this Honourable House the 14th of this Instant November, That such Lords of this House that have any Occasion to go to the E. of Strafford should first acquaint this House with it, is to stand.

Committee for the Northern Business.

The Committee for the Northern Business is deferred until To-morrow in the Afternoon.

Forest of Dean.

The Earl Marshal and the Lord Chamberlain reported, That they had, according to the Directions of this House, acquainted His Majesty with their Lordships humble Desires, concerning the staying of the cutting of Timber in The Forest of Deane; and His Majesty was pleased to answer, That he had contracted a Bargain, to furnish His Occasions with Monies, and which He conceived advantageous unto Him. But, if their Lordships could find Him other Means to produce Him the same Profit, He would stay further Cutting of Timber; which His Majesty referred to the Consideration of their Lordships.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Sabbati, videlicet, 28^m diem instantis Novembris, Dominis sic decernentibus.