House of Lords Journal Volume 37: December 1783 11-20

December 1783 11-20

DIE Jovis, 11^o Decembris, 1783.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Mansfield fat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

Shillingford Road Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for enlarging the Term and Powers of an Act passed in the Fourth Year of the Reign of His present Majesty, for repairing and widening the Road from Shillingford, in the County of Oxford, through Wallingford and Pangborne to Reading, in the County of Berks; and for building a Bridge over the River Thames, at or near Shillingford Ferry.

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords following:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on Monday next, at Ten o'Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings, near the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

Adjourn.

Comes Mansfield Capitalis Justiciarius Banci Regis declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Veneris, duodecimum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Veneris 12^o Decembris, 1783.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Mansfield fat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

East India Regulation Bill, Petition of Court of Directors against,

Upon reading the Petition of the Court of Directors of the United Company of Merchants of England trading to the East Indies, taking Notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act for establishing certain Regulations for the better Management of the Territories, Revenues, and Commerce of this Kingdom in the East Indies;" and praying, for the Reasons therein mentioned, "That they may be heard by themselves or their Counsel against the said Bill; and that their Lordships will not permit the same to pass into a Law:"

It is Ordered, That the Petitioners be at Liberty to be heard by their Counsel against the said Bill, as desired, at the second reading thereof on Monday next.

Adjourn.

Comes Mansfield Capitalis Justiciarius Banci Regis declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Lunæ, decimum quintum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Lunæ, 15^o Decembris, 1783.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Georgius Princeps Walliæ.

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Mansfield fat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

Shillingford Road Bill.

The Lord Scarsdale reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for enlarging the Term and Powers of an Act passed in the Fourth Year of the Reign of His present Majesty, for repairing and widening the Road from Shillingford, in the County of Oxford, through Wallingford and Pangborne to Reading, in the County of Berks, and for building a Bridge over the River Thames at or near Shillingford Ferry," was committed: "That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true, and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House without any Amendment."

Malt Bill.

The House (according to Order) was adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for continuing and granting to His Majesty certain Duties upon Malt, Mum, Cyder, and Perry, for the Service of the Year One Thousand Seven Hundred and Eighty-four."

After some time the House was resumed:

And the Lord Scarsdale reported from the Committee, "That they had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Lord Audley takes the Oaths.

This Day George Lord Audley took the Oaths, and made and subscribed the Declaration, and also took and subscribed the Oath of Abjuration, pursuant to the Statutes.

East India Affairs, Motion for Judges to attend negatived.

Moved, "That the Judges may be summoned to attend this House, in order to give their Advice in Point of Law upon the Bill now depending in Parliament, for vesting the Affairs of the East India Company in the Hands of certain Directors," &c.

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Negative.

Earl Harborough takes the Oaths.

This Day Robert Earl of Harborough took the Oaths, and made and subscribed the Declaration, and also took and subscribed the Oath of Abjuration, pursuant to the Statutes.

East India Regulation Bill, Petition of the City of London against.

Upon reading the Petition of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of the City of London, in Common Council assembled, taking Notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act for establishing certain Regulations for the better Management of the Territories, Revenues, and Commerce of this Kingdom in the East Indies;" and praying, for the Reasons therein mentioned, "That the said Bill may not pass into a Law:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

East India Regulation Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act for establishing certain Regulations for the better Management of the Territories, Revenues, and Commerce of this Kingdom in the East Indies;" and for hearing Counsel against the said Bill; and for the Lords to be summoned:

Counsel were accordingly called in; and the said Bill was read a second Time.

Then Mr. Rous was heard on behalf of the East India Company against the Bill.

The Charter of King William read.

Then Mr. Rous called Mr. Thomas Morton, and several other Witnesses, who were sworn, and examined as follows: (videlicet)

Q. "What is your Employment in the East India Company's Service?"

A. "Secretary."

Q. "How long have you filled that Employment?"

A. "About Six Months."

Q. "How long have you been in the Service of the East India Company?"

A. "Thirty-two Years."

Q. "Do you recollect during that Time to have seen any original Grants or Instruments between the East India Company and the Indian Powers?"

A. "Yes; one in particular that was made between Lord Clive and the Nabob of Bengal, of the 15th of August, 1765."

Q. "Have you Access to the Company's Records?"

A. "I have."

Q. "If there had been any other original Treaties, should you, in all Probability, have seen them?"

A. "I should."

Then Mr. Morton produced a Book, containing Copies of Fermans and Husbulhookhams, received in London in the Year 1718. The Grants were all in the Year 1717. The Fermans and Husbulhookhams were read.

He was directed to withdraw.

Then Mr. John Annis was called, who, being sworn, was examined as follows: (videlicet)

Q. "In what Capacity do you serve the East India Company?"

A. "I am Auditor of the India Accounts."

Q. "In that Character can you ascertain the annual Amount of the ceded Lands antecedent to the Grant of the Dewenna in 1765?"

A. "Yes. The Collections of the ceded Lands, deducting the Charges of Collections, the Jaghire and Commission, is £.658,875 net. The Profit upon the Salt made in the ceded Lands, the Proportion of the Amount is £. 118,000."

Q. "Is that the annual Amount now ?"

A. "This is the Collections of 1780 and 1781."

Q. "Does this make a Part of any of the Accounts stated, which have been delivered to the House ?"

A. "Yes."

Q. "Is this the Amount of the ceded Lands in Bengal that you spoke to ?"

A. "Yes."

Q. "Can you speak to the Value of the ceded Lands at Fort St. George and thereabouts ?"

A. "Here is the Rental of Fort St. George, taken from the Books of 1779-1780. The net Revenue is £.540,466."

Q. "Can you speak to the Amount of the ceded Land on the other Side of India, under the Bombay Presidency?"

A. "Here is the Bombay Rentals, amounting, the net Revenues, £.81,338."

Q. "Can you speak to the Amount of the Dewenna Revenues, obtained in 1765 ?"

A. "The Rental of the Dewenna of Bengal and Baba, (fn. 1) the net Revenue of 1780 and 1781, is £ 1,743,372. The Profit of Salt manufactured on the Dewenna Land is £ 332,000."

Q. "What was the whole Revenue of the Company in Land before the Year 1765 ?"

A. "£.1,398,679."

Q. "Now what is the Amount of the Dewenna?"

A. "£.1,743,372, the Dewenna of Bengal and Baha."

Q. "Can you speak to the Sum expended in Sermon's Embassy, in the Year 1717 ?"

A. "In examining the Company's Bengal Books for that Purpose, I find the Expences of Sermon's Negociations at the Mogul's Court began about April 1714; the whole Expences from that Time till the Year 1718, when the Embassy was completed, £ 78,234. This Sum remained a Balance on the Bengal Books till September 1774, when it was wrote off to the Account of Territory, by Order of the Court of Directors."

Q. "Can you speak to the Sum expended by the Company in Fortifications and other Buildings in their different Settlements ?"

A. "I am not prepared to speak to that. They cost the Company near Seven Millions Sterling, as it is stated in this Account, which I have no Reason to doubt. I cannot swear positively by my Memory, but I really believe it to be true."

Q. "Can you say with Positiveness that the Sums expended in Fortifications and other Buildings is upwards of Six Millions ?"

A. "I believe that it is upwards of Six Millions, but I have not the Accounts about me."

The Eleventh Article in the Treaty of Paris, 1763, read.

The Treaty ceding the Dewenna, written the 12th August 1765, was read.

Q. "Can you speak to the Amount of the Tribute from Banaras?"

A. "By a Memorandum I have, I can. It is £.490,000."

Q. "Can you speak to the Amount of the Subsidy from Oude for the Maintenance of the Troops there?"

A. "£.427,000."

Q. "Can you speak to the Amount of the Subsidy from Arcot for the Maintenance of the Garrison in the Carnatic?"

A. "£.200,000 a Year, upon an Average of Four Years."

Q. "Can you speak to the Amount of the Subsidy from Tanjore for the Maintenance of the Garrison in that Town ?"

A. "£. 160,000."

He was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Dallas—"My Lords, I will now call Mr. Nicholl, to ascertain to your Lordships the Expence at which these Territories were acquired."

Then Mr. Samuel Nicholl was called in, who being sworn, was examined as follows; (videlicet)

Q. "Please to state to the House what Character you fill in the East India Company's Service?"

A. "I am Accountant to the East India Company."

Q. "State to the House the Account of the Company's Disbursements in various Wars carried on in India, from the Year 1750 to the Year 1765, the Period when the Dewenna was acquired ?"

A. "The average Amount of the Expences incurred in the Fifteen Years, more than the Amount of the Revenue, and taken from the Treasury in England, and from the Profits of the Eastward Trade, come to £.459,208. for each Year, equal, for the Fifteen Years, £.6,888,124."

Q. "State what Deductions are to be made from that Sum?"

A. "From which deducting £.121,229. for each Year, being the average Amount of the commercial Drain on England, and its outward Trade for the Fifteen Years, it is £.1,818,440. the Balance is £.5,069,684."

Q. "Can you inform the House what Sums have from time to time been paid to the Government, out of the Profit of the Territorial Acquisitions and Revenues?"

A. "The Monies paid Government in consequence of Agreements with the Company concerning the Territorial Possessions in India, amount to £.2,169,398.18s. 2d. which Sum is to be added £.300,000. paid in consequence of the last Agreement in Part of the £.400,000. stipulated by the last Act."

Q. "Now inform the House what is the Surplus of Receipt from the Territorial Possessions, and Revenues that remained to the East India Company after the different Payments made to the Public?"

A. "The whole received by the Company from the Revenues is £.3,622,969."

Q. "Down to what Time is this Account made up ?"

A. "From the Acquisition in 1765, down to March 1780."

Q. "I beg you will inform the House, whether that is the latest Period to which the Account can be made up?"

A. "So far as respects the Receipt from the Revenues, I believe it is."

Q. "What then is the actual Advantage of the India Company from their Trading Stock, upon Account of their Territorial Possessions ?"

A. "Three Millions Six Hundred and odd Thousand Pounds."

Q. "Inform the House what is the annual Increase of Customs paid to the State for a Period of Fifteen Years subsequent to the Acquisition of the Territorial Possessions, compared with the like Period previous to that Acquisition?"

A. "The Customs paid in Fifteen Years to the First of March 1766, amounted to £.14,940,659. The Produce of the Customs of Excise in the Fifteen Years after the First of March 1766, from 1766 to the First of March 1781, amounted to £.19,889,678."

Q. "What is the actual Excess upon the Comparison of these two Periods ?"

A. "The Excess of the last Fifteen Years compared with the former is £.4,949,019."

He was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Morton read the last Treaty of Peace concluded between the East India Company and the Mahrattas, concluded the 17th of May 1782. Ratified by the Pashwah the 20th of December 1782, and finally completed the 24th of February 1783.

He was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Rous.—"I will now call Mr. Morton to prove the last Dispatches, which state the Evacuation of the Carnatic, to satisfy the House that all is Peace in India."

Mr. Morton read Paragraph 45 and 46 of a Letter from the Governor-General and Council at Fort William in Bengal, in the Secret Department, dated 5th April 1783, received by the Surprize the 20th September 1783.

Mr. Rous.—"The Letter we are now going to read is to shew, that from the Situation of Affairs, Hyder Ally directed his Son to make Peace with us."

Mr. Morton read a Letter from Lord Macartney, the President, and the Select Committee at Fort St. George, dated the 29th January 1783, inclosing a Copy of Hyder Ally's Letter to his Son, which was also read.

Mr. Rous.—"The next Letter we shall read to your Lordships is from Lord Macartney, which states that the Revenues upon the Coast are productive."

Mr. Morton read a Letter from Lord Macartney, dated at Fort St. George, 25th March 1783, received the 11th of this Month.

Mr. Rous.—"The next Letter will shew that a Cessation of Hostilities had taken place."

Mr. Morton read a Letter from Mr. John Hutchinson, dated 19th July 1783.

Mr. Rous.—" I will now read several Articles of the Treaty of Peace to shew that it holds forth that Protection to Tippo Saib, which his own Forces could not give him."

Mr. Morton read the 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th Articles of the Definitive Treaty of Peace.

He was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Dallas.—"We mean now to call for the Testimony of the different Gentlemen who have filled the Chair of the East India Company from the Year 1773, down to the present Time, from the Time when the Regulating Act passed, to prove that all Letters relative to War and Peace, and the Management of the Territorial Possessions; in short that every Thing relating to the Company's Affairs, has been regularly communicated to His Majesty's Ministers for the Time being."

Speaker.—"There is no Doubt of that."

Mr. Dallas.—"The Head of Evidence with which I shall now trouble the House, is to prove the Property of a personal Nature, which the East India Company are possessed of abroad and at home, in order to shew their actual Situation up to the latest Periods to which these Accounts can be carried. And I shall trouble the House with reading the various Clauses of different Acts of Parliament, in consequence of which different Sums will appear to be paid from time to time to Government by the East India Company, for the Renewal of their Charters."

Speaker.—"The Witness gave an Account of all the Sums the Company had paid to the Public."

Then Mr. Annis was called in again and examined as follows:

Q. "Please to inform the House what Sum of Money is due from the Public to the Company for the Subsistence of French Prisoners in the War before the last.?"

A. "£.260,687. 8s. 5d."

Q. "What is due from the Public to the Company for the Expences on the Expedition to Manilla ?"

A. "£.139,877. 13s. 6d."

Q. "What is due to the Company from the Public for Hospital Expences on the Manilla Affair ?"

A. "£ 21,448. 9s."

Q. "Are the Sums you thus state as due allowed by Government to be so due to the Company?"

A. "I don't know that."

Mr. Dallas.—"If any Doubt arises with respect to the Expences on the Manilla Expedition, I shall call a Witness to give in Evidence the Letter from the Secretary at State to the East India Company, authorizing that Expedition, and pledging the Public to reimburse the Expences of it."

Mr. Morton read a Letter relative to the Manilla Expedition, from the late Earl of Egremont, dated Whitehall, July 23d 1762, to the Secret Committee of the East India Company.

Q. (A Lord) "Whether subsequent to the Expedition upon Manilla the Account of the Expence was laid before the Secretary of State, or the proper Officers, and what is the Reason why it has not been paid. Has that Account been allowed ?"

A. "I don't know. I understand an Account was laid before Government antecedent to the Surrender; that, antecedent to the Surrender, amounting to £.28,000. I understand to have been paid."

Q. "Do you know why the other Sum has not been paid ?"

A. "I don't."

Q. "Has a Demand been made of it?"

A. "I don't know, that lies with the Secretary."

He was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Dallas.—"If your Lordship chooses to have Evidence upon that Head, I will call Mr. Morton the Secretary, to prove that Demands have been made for the Payment of the same."

Then Mr. Morton was called in and examined as follows: (videlicet)

Q. "Do you know of any Application made by the India Company to the proper Officers to be reimbursed for the Expences of the Expedition to Manilla?"

A. "I believe there has by the Chairman and Deputy."

Q. "Have they been paid those Expences or not?"

A. "They have not, except a Vote of £.20,000. by Parliament."

Q. "Do you know the Reason why they have not been paid ?"

A. "No."

Q. "Or whether any Objection was taken to the Account?"

A. "I don't know."

Q. "Do you know whether the East India Company have ever given a general Discharge to the Public for the Expences attending that Expedition ?"

A. "I believe they have not."

He was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Dallas.—"I will now call Mr. Harris to ascertain to Your Lordships what is the present State of the Company's Treasury in Leadenhall-Street."

Then Mr. Harris was called in, who being sworn, was examined as follows; (videlicet)

Q. "What is your Employment in the Service of the East India Company."

A. "Treasury."

Q. "Does it consist with your Knowledge what is the actual Amount of Cash at present in the Company's Treasury."

A. "Yes, the Amount is £.609,954.

Q. "Up to what Time is the Amount made out from which you speak?"

A. "To the 19th of November 1783, in the Morning, the Particulars of the Balance consist in these Articles, in Money £.142,79. in Company's Bonds, paid in at the Sales which the Company will again issue, £.280,575."

Q. "Explain to the House why you state the Article of the Company's Bonds as Cash ?"

A. "The Bonds paid in being received as Cash, and then issued as Opportunity offers, are never considered as Bonds discharged or wrote off, nor could the Account of them be otherwise kept without occasioning great Confusion and Inconveniency; they are considered as Cash till they are again re-issued."

Mr. Dallas.—"I am now going to state to the House what is the Sum due to the East India Company for Goods sold, but not delivered or paid for."

Q. "What is the Sum of Money due for Goods sold, but not delivered or paid for?"

A. "The Amount of Goods sold, not paid for, Discount deducted, is £.473,240. besides which there is £.80,000. due from the Board of Ordnance for Salt Petre delivered them, not paid for, making in the whole £. 553,258."

Mr. Dallas.—"I would not trouble your Lordships with going specifically through the Articles of this Account, but it is necessary for us to prove the respective Articles by the various Officers with whom they are; there is no general Signature."

Speaker.—"The Lords have all this in Print, signed by the Officers."

Mr. Dallas.—"Has the Witness inspected this Account, and as far as concerns Matters in his Department, does he believe it to be a true and correct Account."

A. "I have inspected it; they certainly are correct."

Q. "Inform the House, what is the estimated Value of Goods at the present time in the East India Company's Warehouses unsold, of which all the Freights and Duties are paid, or the Charges of which will be afterwards stated to the House?"

A. "The Amount upon the best Estimate that can be made, is, Discount deducted, £.2,500,000."

Q. "What is the Value of Goods and Stores exported to India?"

A. "£.1,219,091."

He was directed to withdraw.

Then Mr. James Bigger was called in, who being sworn, was examined as follows: (videlicet)

Q. "Inform the House what Employment you hold in the East India Company's Service?"

A. "I am a Clerk in the East India Company's Treasury."

Q. "Do you know what the Amount of the Silver at present is in the East India Company's Treasury?"

A. "Yes. There is Bullion to the amount of £.1090."

Q. "What is the Amount of the Sum which the East India Company have advanced upon account of Freight to the Owners of the Ships now abroad, which will be deducted from the Freight payable to them when they arrive?"

A. "£.172,334."

He was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Nicholl was again called in, and examined as follows: (videlicet)

Q. "Inform the House, as Accountant to the East India Company, whether all the Articles of this Account are truly and justly stated?"

A. "I verily believe they are; at the same Time it must be observed, many of them are upon Estimate."

Q. "From what Books do you take that Account?"

A. "A great deal of it is from Estimates which are taken from Vouchers in all the (fn. 2) different, where the Debts and Credits arise in the India House."

Q. "From the several Books?"

A. "It cannot be always Books, because part of it is from Estimation."

Q. "Are the Articles that are absolutely extracted from the Company's Books, truly and fairly stated?"

A. "They are."

Q. "Whether the Estimates contained in this Account are, to the best of your Knowledge and Belief, just and true Estimates?"

A. "They are to the best of my Knowledge and Belief."

Q. "Do they come from different Departments, or only one?"

A. "Whenever an Account of this Kind is made out, the principal Officer of every Department is wrote to, to send the Account of all the Debts due to his Department, and he receives an Answer to that Question."

Q. "Is your Name signed to that Paper?"

A. "Yes."

Mr. Dallas.—"I am now going to produce to your Lordships this Account authenticated by the Evidence at the Bar, by placing his Signature at the Bottom of the Account."

The Account signed by the Witness, which corresponded with the printed one, was laid upon the Table.

Q. "Is it usual in the India House to make Estimate of those Articles which are estimated in this Account?"

A. "Certainly."

Q. "Are those Estimates made according to the usual Method of making Estimates at the East India House?"

A. "Certainly they are."

Mr. Rous.—"That Account having shewn the Actual State of the Company's Affairs upon a Balance, I shall now call Witnesses to prove the probable Receipts and Payments to the First of March 1786."

Speaker.—"You may authenticate that in the same Way."

Mr. Rous.—"It is a Continuation annexed to this Account.—Does the Witness, as Accountant to the East India Company, believe that Estimate to have been made up correctly from the best Judgment that can be formed from the Materials at the India House?"

A. "I do verily believe it is."

Mr. Rous.—"That Account being established for the Purpose of shewing what will be the Relief requisite to the Company, I shall now shew what has arisen from the European War."

Q. "Can you state to the House, the Amount of Freight and Demurrage, exceeding the Peace-Freight and Demurrage paid and payable?"

A. "There has been paid for Freight and Demurrage between the First of March 1781, and the First of March 1783, more than was paid on an Average of of Six Years, from March 1774 to March 1780, when the Average Sale was in all equal to the Sales of 1781 and 1782, £.788,000. that has already been paid beyond the Price of Peace-Freight."

Q. "Inform the House in the same Manner, what is the extraordinary Freight and Demurrage beyond the Peace-Price that will become due?"

A. "The extra Sum that may be paid for Freight and Demurrage between the First of March 1783, and the First of March 1784, occasioned by the War, compared with an Average of the Peace above, is £.380,000. Besides the above, there may become due for extra Freight and Demurrage, after the First of March 1784, occasioned by the War £.740,000."

Q. "Now can you state the prime Cost of the Cargoes that have been lost during the War?"

A. "The prime Cost of Cargoes lost Outward and Homeward, occasioned by the War, is £.753,217."

Q. "How many Ships were lost?"

A. "I don't exactly recollect, several Outward and several Inward."

Q. "Were they all captured?"

A. "They were either taken by the Enemy, or lost by going in an irregular Mode to the Service of the Country, going circuitous Voyages and not regular Voyages."

Q. "Can you state the Proportion of those that were captured by the Enemy."

A. "I cannot precisely."

Q. "Can you state the Sum paid for the three Ships that were presented to the Public?"

A. "The Sum paid for the three Ships that were given to the Public was £.95,349."

Q. "Have you any Knowledge of the Value of the Cargoes expected in 1784 and 1785, and the Number of Ships?"

A. "There are 55 Ships now abroad, 45 of which are due in this present Year, and the Year 1784, for which, by the Advices from India, Provision is made for the Cargoes."

Q. "Provision made for all of them?"

A. "Yes, except from China, a Draught of £.680,000."

Q. "Can you speak to the prime Cost of those Cargoes?"

A. "I believe near Four Million of Money."

Q. "What is their Produce estimated at here, by a Reference to former Sales?"

A. "Their Produce at a Sale will amount to Ten Millions or thereabouts."

Q. "What are the Expences attending the Arrival of those Ships?"

A. "I should conceive the Expences upon the former Accounts of Freightage, Demurrage, and Customs, will take nearly the Half."

Q. "To what Amount do the annual Sales of the East India Company usually go?"

A. "Upon an Average £.3,200,000."

Mr. Dallas.—"I am now going to produce Evidence to shew your Lordships the Number of Ships employed in the Company's Service. The Tonnage to which they amount, and the Number of Men employed in navigating those Ships. If your Lordships will give me Leave I will examine the Witness to prove what are the Amounts of the Exports of the Manufactures of this Country for the last 15 Years."

A. "It is nearly upon an Average £.500,000 a Year."

Q. "Inform the House what are the Number of British Subjects employed by the East India Company in this Country."

A. "In the East India House and Warehouses, and other Tradesmen that are principally employed in the East India Company's Business, amount to 1371."

He was directed to withdraw.

Then Mr. John Annis was again called in and examined, as follows; (videlicet)

Q. "What is the Number of British Subjects employed in their Service in India?"

A. "668 exclusive of the marine Establishments."

Q. "What Number of British Subjects are employed in the marine Establishment?"

A. "335."

Q. "By the last Returns from India what are the Numbers of European Officers and Men employed in the Armies of the East India Company."

A. "I have not got the Account with me."

Q. "What are the Number of Seamen employed in the Company's Packets and Small Vessels?"

A. "I can't tell."

Mr. Dallas—"My Lords I am now going to call Evidence to prove the Exertions made by the President and Council during the War?"

Q. "Inform the House what Sums of Money and what Supplies in Stores or of any other Nature, have been sent to Bombay, from the Year 1775 to the Conclusion of the Mahratta War, from the Presidency of Bengal?"

A. "Here is an Account authenticated by the proper Officer, dated from the Accountant's Office."

The Witness read several Items, the total of which was £.3,744,967.

Q. "What Account is that you have now in your Hand?"

A. "An abstract Statement of the Supplies from Bengal Government, to the Presidency of Fort St. George, from the 31st of July 1780 to the 31st of December 1782, amounting together to £.2,819,774."

He was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Dallas—"The Evidence I shall now produce will be to prove the late Improvements in the Revenue in Bengal, &c."

Then Mr. Morton was again called in, and examined as follows; (videlicet)

Q. "Have the East India Company received any Advices stating late Improvements in the Revenue by the Increase of the Revenues, and the Decrease in the Charges of collecting."

A. "There is a Minute of the Governor-General's entered upon the Consultation of the 20th of December 1782. The Minute is dated the 12th." The Minute was read, and also Mr. Macpherson's Minute in consequence of one from the Governor-General of the same Date.

He was directed to withdraw.

Moved "to adjourn the further Consideration of this Bill, and the hearing of Counsel against the same till To-morrow."

Which being objected to:

After long Debate,

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordered, That the further Consideration of this Bill, and the hearing of Counsel against the same, be adjourned till To-morrow; and that the Lords be summoned.

Adjourn.

Comes de Mansfield Capitalis Justiciarius Banci Regis declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Martis decimum sextum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Martis, 16^o Decembris 1783.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Georgius Princeps Walliæ.

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Mansfield sat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

Malt Bill.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for continuing and granting to His Majesty certain Duties upon Malt, Mum, Cyder, and Perry for the Service of the Year One thousand seven hundred and eighty four."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Shillingford Road Bill.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for enlarging the Term and Powers of an Act passed in the fourth Year of the Reign of His present Majesty for repairing and widening the Road from Shillingford in the County of Oxford, through Wallingford and Pangborne to Reading in the County of Berks, and for building a Bridge over the River Thames, at or near Shillingford Ferry."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Messages to H. C. that the Lords have agreed to the two preceding Bills.

And Messages were severally ordered to be sent to the House of Commons by Mr. Eames and Mr. Montagu to acquaint them, "That the Lords have agreed to the said Bills without any Amendment."

Lord Milton takes the Oaths.

This Day Joseph Lord Milton took the Oaths, and made and subscribed the Declaration, and also took and subscribed the Oath of Abjuration, pursuant to the Statutes.

East India Regulation Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the further Consideration of the Bill, intituled, "An Act for establishing certain Regulations for the better Management of the Territories, Revenues and Commerce of this Kingdom in the East Indies: And for the further hearing of Counsel against the said Bill; and for the Lords to be summoned;"

Counsel were accordingly called in.—And Mr. Rous Counsel for the East India Company, in order to obviate the Charge of Mismanagement brought against the Directors of the said Company, called Mr. Morton their Secretary, who produced and read,

"A General Letter from the Directors to the Governor-General of Fort William, dated 28th August 1771."

Also, "A Plan formed for the Execution of the Orders contained in the above Letter."

Also, "Consultations of the Council Board at Bengal on the 24th November 1781."

Also, "Consultations of the said Board there, 9th February 1781."

Also, "An Account of the Difference in the Collection of the Revenues there, in consequence of the above Regulations, dated 6th March 1781."

Also, "A Book, intituled Regulations for the Administration of Justice in India, framed in 1781."

Then Mr. Dallas, the other Counsel for the India Company, was heard against the said Bill.

Then Mr. Harding, Counsel for the Directors of the East India Company, was heard against the said Bill.

Then Mr. Plomer, the other Counsel for the Directors of the East India Company, was heard against the said Bill.

The Counsel were directed to withdraw.

Ordered, That the further Consideration of the said Bill be adjourned till To-morrow; and that the Lords be summoned.

Adjourn.

Comes Mansfield Capitalis Justiciarius Banci Regis declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Mercurii, decimum septimum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Mercurii, 17^o Decembris, 1783.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Georgius Princeps Walliæ.

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Mansfield sat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

Touray's Naturalization Bill.

The Lord Scarsdale reported from the Lords Committees to whom, the Bill, intituled, "An Act for naturalizing Michael Peter Touray," was committed, That they had considered the said Bill and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true, and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House without any Amendment."

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Ord, and others:

East India Company's Debt Bill.

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act to continue so much of an Act made in the last Session of Parliament, as allows further Time for the Payment of certain Sums due, and to become due to the Public from the United Company of Merchants of England trading to the East Indies," to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

East India Regulation Bill:

The Order of the Day being read for the further Consideration of the Bill intituled, "An Act for establishing certain Regulations for the better Management of the Territories, Revenues, and Commerce of this Kingdom in the East Indies, and for the Lords to be summoned."

It was moved, "To commit the Bill."

Which being objected to;

After long Debate,

The Question was put thereupon ?

It was resolved in the Negative.

Rejected.

Ordered, That the said Bill be rejected.

Adjourn.

Comes Mansfield Capitalis Justiciarius Banci Regis declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque and et in diem Jovis, decimum octavum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Jovis, 18^o Decembris, 1783.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Mansfield sat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

Touray's Naturalization Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for naturalizing Michael Peter Touray."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Messages to H. C. that the Lords have agreed to it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Eames and Mr. Montagu, to acquaint them, "That the Lords have agreed to the said Bill, without any Amendment."

East India Company's Debt Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to continue so much of an Act made in the last Session of Parliament, as allows further Time for the Payment of certain Sums due, and to become due to the Public, from the United Company of Merchants of England trading to the East Indies."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House.

Ordered, That the House be put into a Committee upon the said Bill To-morrow.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Eden, and others:

American Trade Bill.

With a Bill intituled, "An Act to continue, for a limited Time, an Act made in the last Session of Parliament," intituled, "An Act for preventing certain Instruments from being required from Ships belonging to the United States of America, and to give to His Majesty, for a limited Time, certain Powers for the better carrying on Trade and Commerce, between the Subjects of His Majesty's Dominions, and the In habitants of the said United States:" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Hodie 1^a & 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to continue, for a limited Time, an Act made in the last Session of Parliament, intituled, "An Act for preventing certain Instruments from being required from Ships belonging to the United States of America, and to give to His Majesty for a limited Time, certain Powers, for the better carrying on Trade and Commerce between the Subjects of His Majesty's Dominions and the Inhabitants of the said United States."

Ordered, That the said Bill be read the Third Time To-morrow.

Adjourn.

Comes Mansfield Capitalis Justiciarius Banci Regis declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Veneris, decimum nonum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Veneris, 19^o Decembris, 1783.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Mansfield sat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

East India Company's Debt Bill.

The House (according to Order) was adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act to continue so much of an Act made in the last Session, of Parliament, as allows further Time for the Payment of certain Sums due, and to become due to the Public from the United Company of Merchants of England trading to the East Indies."

After some Time the House was resumed,

And the Lord Scarsdale reported from the Committee, "That they had gone through the Bill and directed him to report the same to the House without any Amendment."

Kirkby Kendall Road Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Braddell, and others:

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act to continue and enlarge the Term and Powers of an Act made in the Third Year of the Reign of His present Majesty, intituled, "An Act for repairing, widening, and keeping in Repair, the Road from Kirkby Kendall in the County of Westmorland, to Kirkby Ireleth in the County of Lancaster;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

American Trade Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to continue for a limited Time, an Act made in the last Session of Parliament, intituled, "An Act for preventing certain Instruments from being required from Ships belonging to the United States of America, and to give to His Majesty, for a limited time, certain Powers for the better carrying on Trade and Commerce between the Subjects of His Majesty's Dominions, and the Inhabitants of the said United States."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

East India Company's Debt Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to continue so much of an Act made in the last Session of Parliament, as allows further Time for the Payment of certain Sums due, and to become due to the Public from the United Company of Merchants of England trading to the East Indies."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative;

Messages to H. C. that the Lords have agreed to the Two preceding Bills.

And Messages were severally sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Eames and Mr. Montagu:

To acquaint them, "That the Lords have agreed to the said Bills without any Amendment."

Borrow stounness Canal Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to enable the Company of Proprietors of the Borrowstounness navigable Cut or Canal, more effectually to complete and maintain the same."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords following:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet Tomorrow, at Ten o'Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings, near the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

Adjourn.

Comes Mansfield Capitalis Justiciarius Banci Regis declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Sabbati, vicesimum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Sabbati, 20^o Decembris 1783.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Mansfield sat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

Borrowstounness Canal Bill:

The Lord Scarsdale reported from the Lords Committees to whom the Bill, intituled "An Act to enable the Company of Proprietors of the Borrowstounness navigable Cut or Canal, more effectually to complete and maintain the same," was committed: "That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true, and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to enable the Company of Proprietors of the Borrowstounness navigable Cut, or Canal, more effectually to complete and maintain the same."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H. C. that the Lords have agreed to it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Eames, and Mr. Montagu, To acquaint them, "That the Lords have agreed to the said Bill, without any Amendment."

Adjourn.

Comes Mansfield Capitalis Justiciarius Banci Regis declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Lunæ, vicesimum secundum diem instantis Decembris, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.