House of Lords Journal Volume 16: 12 March 1697

DIE Veneris, 12 Martii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Messages from H. C. with a Bill; and to return Trotman's.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Bertie and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act to vest certain Lands of Samuel Trotman Esquire deceased, lying in Barkeing, Eastham, Westham, and Woolwich, in the Counties of Kent and Essex, in Trustees, to be sold; and to settle other Lands in Lieu thereof;" to which they have agreed, with One Amendment, whereunto they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Which Amendment, being read Three Times, was agreed to; and ORDERED, That the Commons have Notice thereof.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Dolben and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for the compleating the building and adorning the Cathedral Church of St. Paul, London; and for repairing the Collegiate Church of St. Peter, Westm.;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

St. Paul's and Westm. Abbey, Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the compleating the building and adorning the Cathedral Church of St. Paul, London; and for repairing the Collegiate Church of St. Peter, Westm'r."

Message from H.C. with a Bill.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Molineux and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for the importing several Goods and Merchandize laden in Turkey on board the Ships called The Success and Dragon Galley, paying Customs as if imported by English Ships;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Haberdashers Company versus Bill for Relief of Creditors, in Cases of Escapes, &c.

Upon reading the Petition of the Master and Four Wardens of the Fraternity of the Art or Mystery of Haberdashers, London; praying to be heard, to the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the more effectual Relief of Creditors in Cases of Escapes, and for preventing Abuses in Prisons and pretended Privileged Places:"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Petitioners shall be heard, by themselves or Counsel, as desired, before the Lords Committees to whom the said Bill stands committed, To-morrow, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings near the House of Peers.

Turkey Goods, Two Ships to import, Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the importing several Goods and Merchandize laden in Turkey on board the Ships called The Success and Dragon Galley, paying Customs as if imported by English Ships."

Cooper versus E. of Derby.

After reading Yesterday a Petition of Thomas Cooper Gentleman, and the Right Honourable the Lady Charlotte his Wife; praying Leave to sue the Earl of Derby:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Earl of Derby may have a Copy of the said Petition; and do answer thereunto in convenient Time.

Spademan's Bill, rejected.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for revesting the Sine Cure of Llandinam, in the County of Mountgomery, in John Spademan Clerk."

A Petition of the Dean and Chapter of Bangor being read, against the said Bill;

And after Debate thereupon;

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Bill shall be, and is hereby, rejected.

Relief of Creditors, in Cases of Bankruptcy, Bill.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the House shall be put into a Committee, on Monday next, at Eleven of the Clock, to proceed on the Bill, intituled, "An Act for Relief of Creditors, by making Compositions with their Debtors, in case Two Thirds in Number and Value do agree."

Lords Reasons for insisting on their Amendments to the Bill for prohibiting India Silks, &c.:

The Earl of Stamford reported from the Committee appointed to draw Reasons for the Lords insisting on their Amendments made to the Bill, intituled, "An Act to restrain the wearing of all Wrought Silks and Bengalls imported into this Kingdom from Persia and East India, and all Callicoes printed or stained there."

Which were read, and are as follow; (videlicet,)

The Lords insist on the Amendments made by their Lordships to the Bill, intituled, "An Act to restrain the wearing of all Wrought Silks and Bengalls imported into this Kingdom from Persia and East India, and all Callicoes printed or stained there:"

In the 4th, 21th, and 32th Lines of the First Skin, the 27th and 32th Lines of the 2d Skin, and in the 6th, 9th, and 14th Lines of the 3d Skin:

"Because, the Design of this Bill seeming to be for the Encouragement of the Manufacture of this Kingdom, and for preserving the Money within the same which is usually sent Abroad to purchase Foreign Silks, the Lords conceive it cannot be effectual for either of these Ends unless the Prohibition be general; without which, the Silks that will infallibly be imported, from France, Italy, and Holland, will carry at least as much Money out of the Kingdom as ever, and be as great a Discouragement to our own Manufacture: And their Lordships are of Opinion, that the general Prohibition will no more endanger the Loss of the Trade with those Countries, than the particular Prohibition will that with Persia and India, which the Lords cannot suppose is designed to be lost by this Bill.

"The Lords insist on the Amendments made by their Lordships in the 38th Line of the 1st Skin, and 4th Line of the 2d Skin:

"Because, if there be not a Penalty imposed upon the wearing as well as upon the Sale of any Commodity that is prohibited, such Prohibition would be totally ineffectual; which the Lords conceive the Bill, as it came from the Commons, was defective in. Their Lordships conceive, that the imposing of Pecuniary Penalties of this Nature is no Charging of Money upon the People; because nothing can truly be called so, which is within the People's Choice not to pay if they please, as they need not to do in this Case, unless they will wilfully break the Law; which is made for the Welfare of the State, and not for taxing of the Subject: And their Lordships cannot imagine how the imposing a Penalty in a Legislative Way can well be denied to arise properly in their House; when, according to the Law of the Land, their Lordships, in a Judicial Way, are in Possession of that undoubted Right by themselves alone.

The Lords insist on their Amendments in the Title of the said Bill, for the Reasons aforesaid."

Message to H.C. for a Conference about them.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir John Hoskyns and Mr. Meredith:

To desire a Conference, upon the Subject-matter of the last Conference on the Lords Amendments made to the Bill, intituled, "An Act to restrain the wearing of all Wrought Silks and Bengalls imported into this Kingdom from Persia and East India, and all Callicoes printed or stained there," To-morrow, at One of the Clock, in the Painted Chamber.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Sabbati, (videlicet,) decimum tertium diem instantis Martii, hora undecima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.