House of Lords Journal Volume 13: 20 November 1675

DIE Sabbati, 20 die Novembris.

REX.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Bill to continue the one for avoiding unnecessary Suits, &c.

The Earl of Ailesbury reported, "That the Committee have considered the Bill for avoiding unnecessary Suits and Delays; and think it fit to pass, without any Amendments."

Which Opinion the House approved of; and ordered the said Bill to be engrossed.

Davies' Estate Bill.

The Earl of Bridgwater reported the Bill concerning selling of Lands of Allexander Davies lately deceased; which the Committee thinks fit to pass as it is, all Parties having been heard.

Then,

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for vesting Lands of Alexander Davies deceased in Trustees, for Payment of his Debts."

The Question being put, "Whether this Bill shall pass as a Law?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

North'ton, for rebuilding Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for the better and more easy rebuilding the Town of Northampton."

ORDERED, That the Consideration of this Bill is committed to these Lords following:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them; to meet this Afternoon, at Three of the Clock, in the Prince's Lodgings; and to adjourn from Time to Time, as they please.

Augmentations of small Vicarages, &c. Bill.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for confirming and perpetuating Augmentations made by Ecclesiastical Persons to small Vicarages and Curacies."

The Question being put, "Whether this Bill shall pass for a Law?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H. C. with it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Mundiford Brampston and Sir John Coel:

To deliver the Bill for confirming Augmentations, and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

Also to acquaint them, that this House hath passed the Bill concerning the selling Lands of Alexander Davies, deceased.

Parker, King's Servant, Privilege.

Whereas Henry Awson, this Day appearing at the Bar, confessed that he did arrest John Parker Esquire, One of His Majesty's Gentlemen Pensioners in Ordinary (sitting the Parliament), and carried him to Prison; not-withstanding the said John Parker shewed, him the Certificate of his said Service, and told him of his Privilege thereby:

Awson committed.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod attending this House, or his Deputy, shall take the said Henry Awson into his Custody, and forthwith deliver him into The Prison of The Gatehouse at Westminster; and this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

To the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod attending this House, his Deputy and Deputies.

Whereas Henry Awson, appearing this Day at the Bar of this House, owned his Fault, in arresting John Parker Esquire, One of His Majesty's Gentlemen Pensioners in Ordinary (now sitting the Parliament), and carrying him to Prison, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament; for which the said John Awson is this Day committed Prisoner to The Gatehouse at Westin.:

It is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Keeper of The Gatehouse Prison in Westminster be, and is hereby, required to take into his Prison and Custody the Body of the said Henry Awson, and there detain him as a Prisoner for his said Offence until the Pleasure of this House be further signified; and this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

To the Keeper of The Prison of The Gatehouse in Westm. his Deputy and Deputies, and all others whom it may concern.

Sherley versus Sir J. Fagg.

This Day being appointed for hearing Counsel at this Bar, upon the Petition and Appeal of Thomas Sherley Esquire, against Sir John Fagg:

Thomas Sherley appeared in Person, with Mr. Richard Wallop, One of those assigned Counsel; who made it his humble Desire, that he might be excused from being of Counsel with Mr. Sherley in this Cause, in regard he is utterly unacquainted with the Proceedings in Chancery; neither is he now instructed in the Cause, being not served with the Order of this House until last Night.

As for Mr. Turner, One other Counsel assigned Mr. Sherley; the House was satisfied that he was sick, and so not able to come and plead.

But neither Sir John Fagg appeared (though it appeared upon Oath at the Bar that he was served with the Order of this House at his Lodging, by leaving it at his Lodging), nor any Counsel for him.

Then Doctor Sherley was asked, "Whether he would go on with this Cause now?"

And he said, "He desired to go on presently, if he could have Counsel to plead his Cause."

Whereupon Mr. Wallop was called in; and told, "That this House allows not of his Excuse; but commands and enjoins him to be of Counsel with Mr. Sherley in this Cause; and this House will protect him for so doing."

And in regard of the Shortness of Time now to hear this Cause, and instruct Counsel, this House made the ensuing Orders:

Hearing put off, Counsel for Sherley being unprepared.

"Whereas this Day was appointed for hearing the Cause, at the Bar, upon the Appeal of Doctor Thomas Sherley against Sir John Fagg, at which Time the said Thomas Sherley appearing in Person, but no Counsel instructed for him; nor did Sir John Fagg, or any Counsel for him appear, though Notice of this Day was left at the said Sir John Fagg's Lodgings, as appeared by Oath made at the Bar this Day: It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That this House will hear the said Cause, by Counsel, at the Bar, on Monday the 22th Instant, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon."

Sherley, &c. Protection.

"Whereas Doctor Thomas Sherley hath an Appeal depending in this House, against Sir John Fagg: It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Thomas Sherley, his Attorney, and such other Person or Persons as he shall employ in prosecuting his said Appeal before this House, be, and are hereby, privileged and protected during the depending of the said Cause before this House; and that the Constable of The Tower, and his Deputy, and all other Keepers of Prisons, and Jailers, and all Serjeants at Arms, and other Persons whatsoever, be, and are hereby, strictly prohibited from arresting, imprisoning, detaining, or otherwise molesting or charging, the said Thomas Sherley, his Attorney, and such other Persons as aforesaid, as they and every of them, will answer the contrary to this House."

Wallop, his Counsel, Protection.

"Whereas Richard Wallop Esquire, Counsellor at Law, is assigned by this House to appear at their Bar, to plead the Cause of Doctor Thomas Sherley, against Sir John Fagg: It is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Richard Wallop hath hereby the Protection of this House granted him, from all Arrests and Imprisonments, for appearing as Counsel at the Bar in the said Cause; and that the Constable of The Tower of London, and his Deputy, and all other Keepers of Prisons, and Jailors, and all other Persons whatsoever, be, and are hereby, strictly prohibited from arresting, imprisoning, detaining, or otherwise molesting or charging, the said Richard Wallop, as they and every of them will answer the contrary to this House."

Sir N Stoughton's Protection.

"Whereas Sir Nicholas Stoughton Baronet hath an Appeal depending in this House against Arthur Onslow Esquire: It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Sir Nicholas Stoughton, his Attorney, and such other Person or Persons as he shall employ in prosecuting the said Appeal before this House, be, and are hereby, privileged and protected during the depending of the said Cause before this House; and that (fn. 1) the Constable of The Tower, and his Deputy, and all other Keepers of Prisons, and Jailers, and all Serjeants at Arms, and other Persons whatsoever, be, and are hereby, strictly prohibited from arresting, imprisoning, detaining, or otherwise molesting or charging, the said Sir Nicholas Stoughton, his Attorney, and such other Persons as aforesaid, as they, and every of them, will answer the contrary to this House."

Paper of H. C. posted up at Wetlm. Hall Gate.

The Lord Gray of Roleston acquainted the House, "That this Morning he did see a Paper affixed up at Westminster Hall Gate, tending much to the Dishonour of this House, and derogatory to its Judicature: His Lordship would have taken it down; but Two Members of the House of Commons would not suffer him."

Clerks sent to examine it.

One of the Lords having a Copy of it; the House appointed Two of the Under-clerks to go to the Lobby of the House of Commons where it is also affixed, and examine the said Copy by that at the House of Commons Lobby.

Report that it was signed by the Clerk of H. C.

The said Clerks returning, gave the House this Account: "That they had examined the Paper given them with that which was posted up in the Lobby of the Lower House; and they agree, excepting in the Word ["Ordered"] for ["Declared"]; and the Paper in the Lobby is signed "Will. Goldsborough, Cler. Dom. Com." And after they had examined the Paper, One of the Under-clerks of the House of Commons pulled down the Paper, saying, it was a false Copy."

Words between the E. of Bristol and the E. of Shaftesbury & al.

Then the House caused the said Paper to be read; which occasioned a great Debate; and, in the Debate, some Words fell from the Earl of Bristoll, reflecting upon the Lord Mohun and the Earl of Shaftesbury; which the House taking Notice of, and the Earl of Bristoll explaining himself:

It was Resolved and Declared, nemine contradicentc, That nothing that hath been said this Day in this House, concerning the Earl of Shaftesbury, by the Earl of Bristol, hath made any Impression upon this House to the Prejudice of the Earl of Shaftesbury.

ORDERED, That the Earl of Bristol do ask Pardon of this House and the Earl of Shaftesbury, for what he hath said against the Rules of the House, and the Earl of Shaftesbury.

Which the Earl of Bristol presently did accordingly.

Words between L. Arundell and E. Shaftesbury.

The House being made acquainted with some angry Words which passed between the Earl of Shaftesbury and the Lord Arundell of Trerice;

The Lord Keeper, by Directions and Command of the House, enjoined the Earl of Shaftesbury and the Lord Arundell, "That there be no further Proceedings to any Resentment, upon any Words passed between them this Day."

Upon which, they both presently promised Obedience to the Command of the House.

Then the House enjoined the Lord Mohun to declare his Satisfaction; the Earl of Bristol having asked the Lord Mohun Pardon, and declared that it was not his Intention to reflect upon the Lord Mohun by any Thing which he had said.

Upon which, the Lord Mohun declared his Satisfaction.

North'ton for rebuilding, Bill.

ORDERED, That the Committee for the Bill for rebuilding the Town of North'ton do meet on Monday Morning next, at Nine of the Clock.

Address for dissolving the Parliament debated.

It was moved, "That this House might make an humble Address to His Majesty, for the Dissolution of this Parliament."

Which being long and seriously debated;

This Question was proposed,

"Whether an humble Address shall be made to His Majesty, from this House, for the Dissolving of this Parliament?"

Then this previous Question was put, "Whether this Question shall be now put?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Then the main Question being put, "Whether an humble Address shall be made to His Majesty, from this House, for the Dissolving of this Parliament?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Resolution concerning the Paper posted up, signed by the Clerk of M. C.

The House resumed the Debate concerning the Paper posted up in the Lobby of the House of Commons, and several other Places.

And, upon Consideration thereof, ORDERED, Nemine contradicente, That the Paper, dated "Veneris, 19th of "November, 1675," and posted up in several Places, and signed "Will. Goldsborough, Cler. Dom. Com." against the Judicature of the House of Peers, in Cases of Appeals from Courts of Equity, is illegal, unparliamentary, and tending to the Dissolution of the Government.

Protest against rejecting the Address for dissolving the Parliament.

"We whose Names are underwritten, Peers of this Realm, having proposed that an humble Address might be made to His Majesty from this House, That He would be graciously pleased to dissolve this Parliament; and the House having carried the Vote in the Negative: For the Justification of our loyal Intentions towards His Majesty's Service, and of our true Respect and Deference to this Honourable House, and to shew that we have no sinister or indirect Ends in this our humble Proposal, do with all Humility herein set forth the Grounds and Reasons why we were of Opinion that the said humble Address should have been made:

"First, We do humbly conceive, that it is according to the ancient Laws and Statutes of this Realm, that there should be frequent and new Parliaments; and that the Practice of several Hundred Years hath been accordingly.

"2. It seems not reasonable, that any particular Number of Men should for many Years engross so great a Trust of the People, as to be their Representatives in the House of Commons; and that all other the Gentry and the Members of Corporations of the same Degree and Quality with them should be so long excluded: Neither, as we humbly conceive, is it advantageous to the Government, that the Counties, Cities, and Boroughs, should be confined for so long a Time to such Members as they have once chosen to serve for them; the mutual Correspondence and Interest of those who choose and are chosen admitting great Variations in Length of Time.

"3ly, The long Continuance of any such as are intrusted for others, and who have so great a Power over the Purse of the Nation, must, in our humble Opinion, naturally endanger the producing of Factions and Parties, and the carrying on of particular Interests and Designs, rather than the Public Good.

"And we are the more confirmed in our Desires for the said humble Address, by reason of this unhappy Breach fallen out betwixt the Two Houses, of which the House of Peers hath not given the least Occasion; they having done nothing but what their Ancestors and Predecessors have in all Times done, and what is according to their Duty, and for the Interest of the People, that they should do; which notwithstanding, the House of Commons have proceeded in such an unprecedented and extraordinary Way, that it is in our humble Opinion become altogether impracticable for the Two Houses, as the Case stands, jointly to pursue those great and good Ends for which they were called.

"For these Reasons, we do enter this our Protestation against, and Diffent unto, the said Vote:

"Buckingham.
Dorsett.
Winchester.
Salisbury.
Stamford.
Westmorland.
J. Bridgewater.
Howard E. of Bercks.
Shaftesbury.
Halifax.
Yarmouth.
Mohun.
Newport.
Fauconberg.
H. Sandys.
P. Wharton.
Chesterfeild.
Clarendon.
Delamer.
Townshend.
Will. Petre.
Grey de Rolleston."

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Lunæ, videlicet, 22^um diem instantis Novembris, hora nona Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.