House of Lords Journal Volume 10: 2 October 1648

DIE Lunæ, 2 die Octobris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Carter.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Answer from the H. C.

Mr. Page and Dr. Aylett return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they agree to the Business concerning the Keepership of Hyde Parke: To all the rest, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

L. Herbert, a Pass.

Ordered, That the Lord Herbert of Cherbery shall have a Pass, to go into Wales, and return again to London.

Letter, &c. from the Commissioners with the King.

A Letter from the Commissioners treating with the King, in the Isle of Wight, was read, with the Papers inclosed. (Here enter them.)

Letter from the King:

Also a Letter from the King was read, brought by Captain Titus, who is commanded by the King to stay for an Answer.

A Paper likewise, inclosed, was read.

(Here enter them.)

Message to the H. C. with it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Page and Dr. Aylett:

To communicate to them the King's Letter, with the Paper inclosed; with a Desire that, when they be read, they would return the Originals to this House, and keep Copies of them; their Lordships being unwilling to detain a Business of this Importance so long from them as to take Copies.

The House called.

The House was this Day called, according to former Order; and these Lords were absent:

To be called again.

Ordered, That this Day Sevennight this House shall be called again; and such Lords as are not now present, or excused, or shall not then upon another Summons attend this House, shall be fined Fifty Pounds apiece.

Absent Lords to pay.

Ordered, That every Lord that shall be absent without Leave of this House, or beyond his Day of Leave, shall pay to the Poor, according to the ancient Order of this House.

Gideon, a Pass.

Ordered, That Wm. Gideon Esquire, with Charles Collins his Servant, shall have a Pass, to go into France, and return into England.

E. of Lauderdale's Creditors Petition for his Goods.

Upon reading the Petition of Theodosia Lady Dudly, Steven Thornby, Rob't Inglish, &c. Creditors of the Earl of Lauderdaill; desiring, "the Goods of the Earl of Lauderdaill, sequestered, may not be sold, until they be heard by the Committee of Lords and Commons for Sequestrations:"

It is Ordered, That the Ordinance mentioned in the Petition shall be considered of To-morrow Morning.

Answer to the King.

Ordered, That this House will To-morrow Morning consider what Answer to return the King to His Message read this Day.

(fn. 1) Revoked.

"Resolved, by the Lords in Parliament assembled, That they do approve of the Answer of the Commissioners appointed to treat with the King, in the Isle of Wight, dated the 28th of September last; and do return Thanks unto them, for their great Care and faithful Pursuance of their Instructions; and that they be hereby further desired to press His Majesty for His Answer to the Proposition concerning the Church, and to proceed in the Treaty according to their Instructions."

Ordered, That the Concurrence of the House of Commons be desired in this Vote.

Ordered, That this Vote be revoked, and not to be sent to the House of Commons.

Order concerning Peers.

Ordered, That no Business shall pass this House, which concerns a Peer of this Realm, before he hath Notice given him of it from the House.

L. Howard to be considered, for losing Hyde Park.

In regard that the Lord Admiral hath the Keepership of Hyde Parke conferred upon him, which was formerly given by this House to the Lord Howard of Escrick:

It is Ordered, That the Lord Howard shall have the next Thing of this Nature as falls conferred upon him.

Message from the H. C. with a Letter to the Commissioners with the King; with Orders and Ordinances; and to remind the Lords of the one to remove Obstructions in the Sale of Bishops Lands.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, Mr. Wheeler; who brought up divers Particulars, wherein their Lordships Concurrence is desired:

1. They having received some Papers from the Commissioners in the Isle of Wight, have framed a Letter from both Houses, to be sent to them. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to; and ordered to be signed by both Speakers.

2. An Ordinance concerning the Salaries to the Judges of the Court of Admiralty. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. An Order for Mr. Norton and Mr. Horseman to be added to the Committee of Sequestrations, and all other Committees, in Com. Rutland. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Order, giving Power to the Committee for regulating the Excise, to give Allowance to the Commissioners of Excise, and their Under Officers, of such Monies as shall be taken from them by Force.

Agreed to, with an Alteration.

5. An Order concerning Mr. Paston's Estate.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

6. An Ordinance for taking off the Sequestration of Clement Paston. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

7. To put their Lordships in Mind of the Ordinance for removing some Obstructions in the Sale of Bishops Lands.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That as concerning the Ordinance concerning the Commissioners of the Excise, and the Ordinance concerning the removing some Obstructions in the Sale of Bishops Lands, their Lordships will take them into Consideration, and will send an Answer by Messengers of their own: To all the rest of the Orders and Ordinances now brought up, their Lordships do agree to them.

Ld. Colraine and Lady Delawar.

Ordered, That To-morrow Sevennight this House will hear the Counsel, in the Matter between the Lady La Warr and the Lord Colerayne.

Letter from the Commissioners with the King, with the following Papers concerning the Treaty.

"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore. These. Westminster.

"My Lord,

"By our last, of the 25th of September Instant, we gave your Lordship an Account of our Proceedings the last Week. Since that Time, we upon the same 25th put in our Paper upon the Propositions concerning the Church, herewith sent you; which the King received. And upon Thursday, being the 28th, the King delivered us a Paper, which afterwards we returned back, with the Paper here inclosed; conceiving (upon Consultation had with our Commission and Instructions) we had no Power to receive it. But the King, after hearing of our Paper read, refused to receive it, or His own back again; and left them upon the Table where we sat to treat: And so we all then departed. The next Morning, being the 29th Instant, we met again with His Majesty; and then His Majesty offered us Two other Papers; which being read, we discerned them to relate to His former Paper which was left upon the Table, as is before expressed. Therefore, conceiving by our Commission and Instructions we had no Power to receive them, we did refuse to accept them; and afterwards we withdrew, and presented His Majesty with the Paper inclosed, to desire His Answer to our Propositions delivered in concerning the Church, unto which we as yet have received no Answer. And of this we thought it our Duty to give your Lordship an Account; and shall further acquaint your Lordship with our Proceedings, as there shall be Occasion; and shall remain,

Newport, 19 Sept. 1648.

"My Lord,

"Your most humble Servants,

"Northumberland.
Pembrooke & Mount. Salisbury.
"Middlesex.
Wm. Say and Seale."

** The Commissioners Ninth Paper, containing the Propositions of the Church.

"Newport, the 25th Sept. 1648.

"We humbly desire Your Majesty to give Your Royal Assent to the Propositions, Bills, and Ordinances ensuing, concerning the Church:

"First, That a Bill be passed, for the utter abolishing and taking away of all Archbishops, Bishops, their Chancellors and Commissaries, Deans and Subdeans, Deans and Chapters, Archdeacons, Canons, and Prebendaries, and all Chanters, Chancellors, Treasurers, Sub-treasurers, Succentors, and Sacrists, and all Vicars Choral and Choristers, Old Vicars and New Vicars, of any Cathedral or Collegiate Church, and all other their Under Officers, out of the Church of England and Dominion of Wales, and out of the Church of Ireland.

"And that the several Ordinances herewith delivered, the one intituled, "An Ordinance of Parliament for abolishing of Archbishops and Bishops within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales, and for settling of their Lands and Possessions upon Trustees, for the Use of the Commonwealth;" the other intituled, "An Ordinance of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, for appointing the Sale of Bishops Lands, for the Use of the Commonwealth;" be confirmed by Act of Parliament.

"That the Ordinances herewith delivered, concerning the Calling and Sitting of the Assembly of Divines, be confirmed by Act of Parliament.

"That Reformation of Religion (according to the Covenant) be settled, by Act of Parliament, within the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, and Dominion of Wales, in such Manner as both Houses have agreed, or shall agree upon, after Consultation had with the Assembly of Divines; and particularly, that Your Majesty will confirm, by Act of Parliament, the Directory herewith presented, for the Public Worship of God, in the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, and Dominion of Wales, together with the several Ordinances herewith also delivered, of the 3d of January, 1644, and of the 23th of August, 1645, concerning the taking away of the Book of Common Prayer, and establishing and putting in Execution of the said Directory.

"That Your Majesty will likewise confirm, by Act of Parliament, the Form of Church Government herewith presented, to be used in the Church of England and Ireland, and also the Articles of Christian Religion herewith delivered, and the Ordinances herewith presented for the better Observation of the Lord's-day.

"That Your Majesty may be pleased to swear and sign the solemn League and Covenant herewith presented; and that Acts of Parliament be passed, for enjoining the taking thereof by all the Subjects of the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, and (fn. 2) of taking the same in both the said Kingdoms, be confirmed by Acts of Parliament, with such Penalties as shall be agreed upon by both Houses.

"That Your Majesty will give Your Royal Assent to the Bill for suppressing Innovations in Churches and Chapels, in and about the Worship of God, &c. and for the better Advancement of the Preaching of God's Holy Word in all Parts of this Kingdom; and to the Bill against enjoying Pluralities of Benefices by Spiritual Persons, and Non-residency, which have been formerly delivered to Your Majesty; and to an Act, to be framed and agreed upon in both Houses of Parliament, for the regulating and reforming of both Universities, and of the Colleges of Westminster, Winchester, and Eaton.

"And that, for the more effectual disabling Jesuits, Priests, Papists, and Popish Recusants, from disturbing the State, and (fn. 2) deluding the Laws, and for the Discovering and speedy Conviction of Popish Recusants, an Oath be established by Act of Parliament, to be administered to them, wherein they shall abjure and renounce the Pope's Supremacy, the Doctrine of Transubstantiation, Purgatory, Worshiping of the Consecrated Host, Crucifixes, and Images, and all other Popish Superstitions and Errors; and refusing the said Oath (being tendered in such Manner as shall be appointed by the said Act) to be a sufficient Conviction of Popish Recusancy.

"That Your Majesty will consent to an Act or Acts of Parliament, for the Education of the Children of Papists by Protestants, in the Protestant Religion; and to an Act or Acts for the true Levy of Penalties against them; which Penalties to be levied and disposed in such Manner as both Houses shall agree on, wherein to be provided, that Your Majesty shall have no Loss.

"That an Act or Acts be passed in Parliament, whereby the Practices of Papists against the State may be prevented, and the Laws against them duly executed, and a stricter Course taken to prevent the Saying or Hearing of Mass in the Court, or any other Part of this Kingdom, or the Kingdom of Ireland.

"Copia vera, ex'r,

** The Commissioners Tenth Paper.

"Newport, this 28th of September, 1648.

"Upon the Paper delivered by Your Majesty this 28th Day of September, we acquainted Your Majesty, That we had not resolved whether we might retain your Paper or not; and since, upon Perusal and Consideration thereof, and of our Commission and Instructions, we find that, albeit Your Majesty will be pleased to style them Your Propositions, yet they are as Answers to the Four Propositions first to be treated on, and to divers of the rest, and are so expressed in Your Majesty's Paper, in these Words, "His Majesty having thus far expressed His Consent for the present Satisfaction and the Security of His Two Houses of Parliament, and those that have adhered to them, touching your Four First Propositions;" and in other Parts of your Paper. And therefore, being by our Instructions to proceed in the First Place upon the Four Propositions in Order, and upon the rest as they are placed, as hath been already declared to Your Majesty in our Paper of the 18th of this Instant; and finding that you have given Answers to the First Four Propositions and divers of the rest together, without admitting Debate upon the Propositions severally, by which we should have endeavoured to have given Your Majesty Satisfaction in the several Propositions as they had been treated on; we humbly herewith return Your Majesty's Paper, and desire Your Answer to the Paper delivered the 25th of this Instant, concerning the Church, whereunto Your Majesty hath given no full Answer in Your Paper.

"Copia vera, ex'r,

** The Commissioners Paper, desiring an Answer to the Proposition concerning the Church.

"Newport, the 29th of Sept. 1648.

"We humbly desire Your Majesty's Answer to our Paper concerning the Church, delivered in to Your Majesty the 25th of this instant September.

"Copia vera, ex'r,

Ordinance for allowing a Salary of Five Hundred Pounds per Annum, for Salaries for the Judges of the Court of Admiralty.

"Whereas both Houses of Parliament did, by their Ordinance of the 13th April last past, constitute and ordain William Clarke, John Exton, and Isaac Dorislaus, Doctors at Law, and every of them, to be Judges of the High Court of Admiralty, to continue for Three Years next after the Date hereof, and no longer: In Consideration of the great Pains to be taken by the said respective Judges, and their constant Attendance in Discharge of their Places, and the Charges to be thereby expended, be it Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Commissioners and Collectors of the Customs in the Port of London for the Time being do, out of the Customs received, or to be received, in the said Port, pay unto each of the said Judges, or to such as shall be Judges in their stead for the Time being, during the aforesaid Time, the Sum of Five Hundred Pounds per Annum severally, to be paid unto them Quarterly, from the said 13th Day of April last past; and their Receipts, with this Ordinance, shall be a sufficient Discharge to the said Commissioners, and Warrant to be allowed on their Accompts: Provided, and be it hereby Declared, That the said Judges of the Admiralty, or any of them, or any Judge that shall hereafter be of that Court, do not take any Fees of the Subject, upon any Claim or Pretence whatsoever."

Committee for Sequestrations in Rutland.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That Benjamin Norton Esquire, and Mr. Edward Horsman Gentleman, be added to the Committee of Sequestration, and all other Committees, in the County of Rutland."

Order to appoint Trustees for Paston's Estate.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That Sir William Paston Baronet, Sir John Palgrave, Sir John Potts, Knights and Baronets, John Gurdon, Miles Corbett, and John Spelman, Esquires, be, and are hereby, authorized, nominated, and appointed, Tenants to the State, and Trustees for managing and receiving the Rents and Profits, and making Leases of the Estate, of Clement Paston of Thorpe juxta Norwich, in the County of Norff. Esquire, a Recusant (except the Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments, by him compounded for, or assigned to him for his Third Part), all which he the said Clement Paston is to dispose of, possess, and enjoy: And it is further Ordered, That the said Tenants or Trustees do from Time to Time pay over to the State, the Rents, Issues, and Profits, of all the Lands so to them intrusted, during the Time they shall lie under Sequestration and be payable to the State for his Recusancy, and to take Care that no Impeachment or Waste be committed upon the said 'State: And the Committees, Treasurers, and Solicitors of Sequestrations, and all other Persons whom it doth or may concern, are hereby enjoined and required to deliver up the said Estate, not compounded for or assigned as aforesaid, into the Hands and Management of the said Trustees accordingly."

Order to free Part of it from Sequestration.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Sum of Five Hundred Pounds be accepted of Clement Paston, of Thorpe juxta Norwich, in the County of Norffolke, Esquire, as a Composition, for remitting into his Hands and Possession, and to his full Power and Dispose, all those Messuages, Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments, mentioned in his Particular entered at Gouldsmiths Hall, being Part of the Two Third Parts of his Estate sequestered for his Recusancy; and that the said Lands and Premises, so compounded for as aforesaid, be, and are hereby, discharged from all Sequestration, and from all Process and Proceedings, had, made, or to be had or made, in His Majesty's Court of Exchequer, for or concerning the said Lands and Premises: And the Barons of the Exchequer, Committees, Treasurers, and Solicitors of Sequestrations, and all other Persons whom it doth or may concern, are hereby required respectively to take Notice of this Order, and to yield ready and full Obedience thereunto."

Letter to the Commissioners with the King, approving of their Proceedings.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"The Houses of Parliament, upon reading of your Letter of the 29th of September, with the Papers therein contained, and upon Consideration thereof, have fully approved your Proceedings therein, in refusing the Paper delivered unto you by the King, which they have since received, it being contrary to your Instructions, and no Way satisfactory: And the Houses have commanded us to return you their Thanks, for your careful and prudent managing of that Business; and do desire that you continue still in proceeding, according to your Instructions, to press the King for His Answer to the Propositions, as you are by them directed; the Houses being resolved to proceed that Way and not otherwise; and that you do impart to His Majesty these Resolutions and Directions. This being all we have in Command, we remain

"Your.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords and Commons, Commissioners of the Parliament, to treat with His Majesty in the Isle of Wight."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10^a cras.