House of Lords Journal Volume 10: 20 July 1648

Die Jovis, 20 die Julii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Ash.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Prisoners at Northampton to be disposed of.

The Earl of Kent reported a Paper from the Committee at Derby House; which was read, as followeth:

"Ordered, That it be reported to both Houses, That there are divers Prisoners at Northampton, which they have not Means to keep safely: Therefore to desire the Houses to give Order, that the Officers and others of Quality may be safely kept; that One, who hath formerly served the Lord General, may be sent to the Head Quarters, to be tried by a Council of War; that for the rest, the Committee may have Power to dispose them as they shall think fit."

Ordered, That this House agrees to this Report; and that it be sent to the House of Commons, for their Concurrence.

Message from the H. C. about the Conference concerning a Treaty;-the Scots coming into England;-and concerning the Sussex Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Walter Earle:

To let their Lordships know, that they are ready to give a Meeting, upon the Conference and Free Conference formerly desired; and to desire that a Part of the Conference may be touching the Vote sent up, concerning the coming in of the Scottish Army into this Kingdom, and for communicating some Letters and Papers which they have received concerning that Business: They also desire that, at that Conference, they may communicate something concerning the Ordinance for (fn. 1) the Safety of the County of Sussex.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

E. of Pembrooke's Purchase of the Royalty of New Sarum.

Ordered, That it is hereby referred to the Judges that go the Western Circuit, to examine the Business at Sarum, which concerns the Earl of Pembrooke, touching the Purchasing of the Royalty of the Town of New Sarum; and to make Report thereof to this House, when they return out from the said Circuit.

Letter, &c. from the Commissioners in Scotland.

A Letter from the Earl of Nottingham, residing in Scotland, with many Papers inclosed, were read Half now; the rest to be read To-morrow.

Answer from the H. C.

Doctor Bennett return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they agree to the Ordinance for stating the Accompts of the Soldiers, with the Alteration; and to the Order for Colonel Thorpe to go beyond the Seas, with Horses; to the Order for Martial Law for Chester; to the Order giving Power to the Committee at Derby House, to give Instructions to the Lord Admiral: (Here enter them.) And to Doctor Cheney Rowe's Petition. To all the rest, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

The House of Commons being in the Painted Chamber, ready for the Conference, the House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference about a Treaty.

The Speaker made the Report of the Conference, to this Effect:

"That Mr. Swinfen said, That the House of Commons having received a Resolution from their Lordships, not to insist upon the Three Propositions to be offered to the King before the Treaty be begun; and upon serious Debate, the House of Commons have resolved to adhere to their former Vote, touching the Three Propositions to be signed by the King before a Treaty: In which Vote they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

"Their Reasons are these:

"1. For that many in the late Insurrections, in Kent, Essex, and other Places, with their Adherents, who press the Parliament with so much Violence for a Personal Treaty before any Foundation of Security first laid, upon the specious Pretence of Peace (which they now make Use of to raise a War), will upon the same Pretence (if such a Treaty should be yielded unto) press the Parliament to yield up all in that Treaty, to the End they may set up an absolute Tyranny, that they, as Instruments, may share therein, and repair themselves with the Spoil of the Commonwealth.

"2. These Three Propositions are essentially necessary to the present Peace and Safety of the Parliament, and those that have engaged with them; and in these the Parliament hath gone so low already, that they cannot further recede, unless they should resolve beforehand to treat away all that which they have endeavoured to preserve with the Loss of so much Blood and Treasure: And if the House of Commons had not intended, and the Lords declared, these only as a necessary Step and Introduction to a Treaty to be had for a more perfect Settlement for the future, the House of Commons could not have gone so low in them at present.

"3. Treaties are then useful, when One or both Parties differing have not had sufficient Time to consider of the Matter in Controversy, or when the Matter is such as that there resteth a great Difference in Judgement about it: But these Three Propositions have been often and for a long Time considered of, both by the King and Parliament; and so much of them as is insisted upon to be granted before Treaty, it appeareth that the King can give His Assent unto them, by what He hath expressed in His Messages to the Houses; though, in further Concessions, He alledged, that He is yet unsatisfied in Point of Honour and Conscience.

"4. If, by reason of any Disturbance, the Treaty should produce no Settlement, these Things not being granted, these Inconveniencies would ensue:

"1. There would not be Power in the Houses to master those Tempers, which are like to continue for some Time after the End of this unhappy War.

"2. Those Ministers that have been placed by the Parliament will be thrown out of their Livings; and all Ministers and others who cannot comply with that Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction, and submit to those Ceremonies that will revive, are in Danger to undergo a more rigid Persecution than ever before.

"3. There will be no Provision made for their Indemnity who have adhered to the Parliament; and the Brands of Rebellion and Treason will remain to Posterity upon both Houses of Parliament, which never had such Censures by any of His Majesty's Predecessors, in the greatest Height of their Differences.

"Upon these Reasons, they hoped their Lordships Judgements would be so satisfied, as to join with the House of Commons in their Vote; and that then the said Three Propositions may be sent to the King; in Pursuance whereof, they have made some Votes, wherein their Lordships Concurrence is desired.

"The said Votes were read, as followeth:

Votes concerning a Treaty with the King.

"Resolved, &c.

"That this House is resolved, that the Three Propositions being granted in Manner as is proposed, then both Houses of Parliament will treat with His Majesty in Person, by a Committee appointed by both Houses, for the future Settlement of the Government of the Church, the Settlement of the Militia, and the rest of the Propositions tendered to His Majesty at Hampton Court, and such other Propositions as shall be propounded either by His Majesty or the Houses, for the settling of a safe and well-grounded Peace.

"Resolved, &c.

"That, after the Three Propositions consented to and signed as is desired, the King be desired to nominate Three Places within Twenty Miles of Westm', Two of which to be at least Ten Miles distant from Westm', where the Treaty shall be; and then both Houses of Parliament shall have Liberty to choose One of them, as they shall think fit.

"Resolved, &c.

"That a Committee of both Houses be appointed, to be sent to the King with the Three Propositions; and that the Vote touching the Place of the Treaty be delivered to the Lords at a Conference.

Report of the Conference about the Ordinance to raise Money for Maintenance of Forces in Sussex;

"The Second Part of the Conference was managed by Sir Walter Earle; who said, That the House of Commons did formerly send up to their Lordships an Ordinance for raising Monies, for maintaining some Forces in the County of Sussex, for the Preservation of that County; and in regard that County is a Neighbourhood to the Sea, great Prejudice may come if this Ordinance be not passed, because the Forces are already raised, who will else be unpaid: Therefore they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

and about the Scots coming into England.

"The Third Part of this Conference was managed by Mr. Wheeler; who said, He was commanded, by the House of Commons, to communicate to their Lordships divers Letters which they have received:

"1. A Letter from Duke Hamilton, to Major General Lambert, dated the 6 July Instant, from Annan.

"2. Major General Lambert's Answer to it, dated the 8 July.

"3. Major General Lambert's Letter to the Speaker of the House of Commons, dated the 12th July Instant.

"4. Another Letter of Major General Lambert, to the Speaker, dated the 14 July.

"These Letters were not read at the Conference; only the Dates.

"That, upon the Consideration of these Letters, the House of Commons have passed a Vote, wherein their Lordships Concurrence is desired."

This Report being ended, the House was adjourned during Pleasure; and the Lords went into the Painted Chamber, to return them this Answer for the present, "That their Lordships will take the Matter of this Conference into speedy Consideration, and will send to them to desire a Conference."

Votes concerning a Treaty.

The Lords being returned, the House was resumed; and the Lords fell into Consideration (fn. 2) of the Reasons now offered at this Conference, and the Vote of the House of Commons for adhering to their former Vote, for the Three Propositions to be tendered to the King before a Treaty.

And after some Debate;

The Question being put; "Whether this House doth adhere to their former Vote, not to insist upon the Three Propositions before the Treaty be begun, notwithstanding the Reasons offered this Day at the Conference by the House of Commons?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordered, That it is referred to the same Committee as formerly were appointed for this Business, to prepare, somewhat to be presented to the House of Commons, at a Conference, to make good the adhering of this House to their former Vote; and to report the same to this House To-morrow Morning, if they can.

Message from the H. C. to recall the Commissioners from Scotland.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Colonel Bosevile; who brought up a Vote for recalling the Commissioners of the Parliament of England now residing in Scotland, wherein their Lordships Concurrence is desired.

Read Once; and ordered to be taken into Consideration To-morrow Morning.

March. of Winton's Servants, a Pass.

Ordered, That Thomas Beale and Suzan Greene, Servants (fn. 3) to the Lady Marquess of Winchester, shall have a Pass, to go to Gaunt in Flanders.

Colonel Thorpe, a Pass.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That Colonel Thorpe, with his Servants and Four Horses, shall be permitted to pass to any Port of this Kingdom, to transport the said Horses, Custom-free, into France; taking along with them Apparel and other Necessaries lawfully exportable, without the Lett or Stay of any Person whatsoever: And this to be a sufficient Warrant in that Behalf.

"To all in Command under the Parliament, by Sea and Land; and to all Commissioners and other Officers of the Customs and to all other Persons to whom this may appertain."

Martial Law for Trial of those concerned in the Design against Chester.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That a Commission for Martial Law be granted to the Governor of Chester, and others, for the Trial of those who were in the late Design against Chester: And it is further Ordered, That the General be desired to grant a Commission accordingly."

Ordinance for Salaries for the Auditors of the Army Accompts.

"The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, taking into their serious Consideration the great Care, Pains, and Charges, that will necessarily be undergone, by Henry Broade, Richard Wilcox, Nicholas Bond, James Prince, and Thomas Richardson, a Committee constituted and appointed, by Ordinance of the 20th Day of July, 1648, in taking, stating, and determining, the Accompts of all Officers and Soldiers who have served under the Command of the Parliament in the late Wars (except as in the said Ordinance is excepted), have thought fit (for their Encouragement to the due Execution of so great a Service) to order and ordain, and be it Ordained by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Salary, or Allowance, of Three Hundred Pounds per Annum be, and is hereby, allowed and given to every One of the said several Persons respectively, in Recompence and Satisfaction of their Care and Pains to be taken in the said Service; which said Yearly Allowances, or Salaries, hereby given and granted, shall begin from the Date of this present Ordinance, and continue for and during the Time of their respective Employments in the said Service, and be Quarterly paid to the said several Persons, out of the Receipts of the Grand Excise and Impost; and the same to be put to the Accompt of Charges, by the Commissioners of the said Grand Excise and Impost for the Time being, who are hereby authorized and required to pay the same accordingly to the said respective Persons; whose Acquittances, together with this present Ordinance, shall be to the said Commissioners, and to every of them, a good and sufficient Warrant and Discharge in that Behalf: And be it further Ordained, by the Authority aforesaid, That the Allowance of One Hundred Pounds per Annum more be, and is hereby, given and granted to the said Committee, for Payment of Clerks and other Officers to be employed, and for Provision of Books, Paper, Fire, Candle, and other Necessaries, in the said Service; which said Allowance shall be also Quarterly paid, out of the said Receipts of the Grand Excise and new Impost, by the Commissioners of the same, who are hereby likewise authorized and required to pay the same accordingly to the said Committee, or any Two of them; whose Receipt, or Receipts, together with this Ordinance, shall likewise be to the said Commissioners of Excise and new Impost, and to every of them, a good and sufficient Warrant and Discharge: Provided, That this Ordinance, and the Powers and Salaries herein contained and expressed, continue and be in Force for One whole Year, from the First of August, 1648, and no longer, unless the Parliament shall otherwise order and appoint: Provided, That neither they the said Authors hereby constituted, their Clerks nor Officers employed by them, shall receive or take, directly or indirectly, by themselves or any other, to their Use, any Fee, Reward, or Gratuity whatsoever, from any Person or Persons concerned as Accomptants by this Ordinance, or by their or any of their Direction, nor any Profit or Advantage whatsoever, other than the Salary appointed in and by this present Ordinance."

Holiday to be instituted to Climping;

Ordered, That Doctor Aylett give Institution and Induction unto Nathaniell Holeyday Clerk, to the Rectory or Vicarage of Clinping, in Com. Sussex, void by the Death of the last Incumbent; salvo Jure cujuscunque: Great Seal.

and Rowlett to Sudburgh.

Ordered, That Doctor Heath give Institution and Induction unto Jo. Rowlett Clerk, to the Rectory of Sudburrough, in the County of North'ton; salvo Jure cujuscunque: Granted by the Great Seal.

Ordinance to confirm Payler, White, and Falkner, in their Places in the Ordinance.

"Die Jovis, 20 Julii, 1648.

"Whereas Georg Payler Surveyor of the Ordinance, John White Clerk of the Ordinance, and John Falkener Store-keeper, have been employed in their respective Places above these Five Years last past, by virtue of several Commissions from the Committee of His Majesty's Revenue, and now desire a fuller Establishment of their said Places: Be it therefore Ordered and Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Oliver St. John Esquire, His Majesty's Solicitor General, do prepare several Grants of the said Places, unto the said Georg Payler, John White, and John Falkner, quamdiu se bene gesserint, respectively; (videlicet,) to Georg Payler, the Office or Place of Surveyor General of the Ordnance; to John White, the Office or Place of the Clerk of the Ordinance; and to John Falkener, the Office or Place of Store-keeper of the Ordinance; together with all and singular the Advantages, Profits, and Emoluments, to every of the said Offices or Places of Right belonging: And the Commissioners of the Great Seal for the Time being are hereby authorized and desired to pass the said Grant, so prepared, under the Great Seal, accordingly."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10^a cras.