House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 26 July 1689

Veneris, 26 die Julii; 1° Gulielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Mr. Speaker to issue Warrant for Habeas Corpus for attendance of a Witness.

ORDERED, That Mr. Speaker do grant his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown of the Court of Chancery, to issue out a Habeas Corpus, directed to the Lieutenant or Chief Governor of the Tower of London, to bring Richard Graham, Esquire, a Prisoner there, before this House, upon Monday Morning next, to testify his Knowledge touching the Matter then to be heard at the Bar of this House, between Sir Wm. Williams, Knight and Baronet, and Sir Rob. Sawyer, Knight upon a Bill for reversing a Judgment given in the Court of King's Bench in Easter Term, 2° Jac. II^dl, upon an Information against the said Sir Wm. Williams.

Claims on Revenue.

A Petition of John Danvers, Esquire, was read; setting forth, That in 1661, during his Minority, the Manor of Dauntsey in Wilts, was seized into the King's Hands, as the Estate of Sir John Danvers, the Petitioner's Father, by virtue of the Act of Parliament of Pains, Penalties, and Forfeitures; which Manor was granted to the Duke of Yorke, and his Heirs, and now settled in Trustees for the Use of the late Queen Mary: That the said Manor was entailed on the Petitioner; and that, for asserting his Right thereunto, he brought an Ejectment, whereon a special Verdict was found by the Direction of the Chief Justice Hales; but that, Rainsford being afterwards made Chief Justice, Judgment was given against the Petitioner, upon which there is now depending a Writ of Error in the Exchequer Chamber: And praying, that Provision may be made in the Act now in passing, for settling the King's Revenue, that such Right as the Petitioner now hath to the said Manor may not be prejudiced thereby.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for settling the Revenue, is referred.

Irish Clergy.

Sir Wm. Poultney reports from the Committee, to whom the Bill for Relief of the Irish Clergy, was referred, That they had agreed upon several Amendments to be made to the Bill: Which he read in his Place, with the Coherence; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read throughout; and afterwards, a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Ordered, That the Bill so amended, be ingrossed.

Shirley's Estate.

Resolved, That the ingrossed Bill, sent down from the Lords, intituled, An Act for enabling of Hannah Shirley, Widow, and Mary Battilhey alias Shirley, her Daughter, to settle and dispose of certain Lands and Tenements, in the Counties of Middlesex and Essex, be now read a Second time.

The Bill was read a Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to Mr. Gwyn, Sir Peter Rich, Mr. Bickerstaffe, Mr. Thomson, Mr. Stockdale, Sir Wm. Honywood, Sir Rob. Cotton, Mr. Burrard, Sir Ch. Bloys, Sir Tho. Samwell, Mr. Montague, Sir Roger Puleston, Mr. Moore, Sir Tho. Darcye, Sir Rich. Hart, Mr. Roberts, Mr. Christy, Mr. Reynell, Major Vincent, Mr. Williams, Mr. Palmes, Sir Rob. Davers, Mr. Pelham, Lord Coote, Mr. Elwell, Sir Thomas Dyke, Mr. Coningsby, Mr. Hawtry, Sir Nevill Catlyn, Sir Walter Moyle, Sir Ralph Dutton, Mr. Mansell, Sir Matth. Andrews, Mr. Foley, Mr. Arnold, Mr. Done, Sir Will. Drake: And they are to meet this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber: And are impowered to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Orphans of London.

Resolved, That the House do now resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Bill for Relief of the Orphans of the City of London.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Grey took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Mr. Grey reports from the Committee of the whole House, That they had made some Progress in the Bill, but had not time to go through with the same.

Supply Bill; settling Revenue.

Mr. Solicitor General reports from the Committee, to whom it was referred to prepare a Clause touching the Book of Rates, to be added to the Bill for settling the Revenue, That they had prepared a Clause accordingly: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth; viz.

Folio 3, leave out from the Word "imported," Line 2, to the Word "the," in the Third Line, and insert "to be collected and levied during the time for which the same are, by this Act, granted, in Manner following, and no otherwise; that is to say, the said Subsidy and Sum shall be collected and levied, according to such Rates as the same are appointed to be levied by the said Act, for such time only, and until a new Book of Rates shall be composed and agreed upon, by the Commons in Parliament, and signed by their Speaker, and no longer: And that from and after such new Book of Rates shall be composed, agreed upon, and signed as aforesaid, the Subsidy and Sum of Money, payable upon Merchandize exported and imported, shall be collected and levied in such Manner, and according to such Rates and Proportions, as shall be therein contained and expressed, and no otherwise: And also that the said new Book of Rates, when the same shall be agreed upon, and signed as aforesaid, and every Article, Clause, and Rule therein contained, shall be and remain for and during so long time as the said Subsidies and Sums of Money, are by this Act, granted to their Majesties, as effectual to all Intents and Purposes, as if the same were particularly set down . . this present Act. And it is hereby Declared, That the said new Book of Rates shall be made and settled, in Manner as aforesaid, within the Space of Three Years, from and after the First Day of August, which shall be in the Year of our Lord One thousand Six hundred and Eighty-nine. And the said Commons do further give and grant unto their Majesties."

Resolved, That the said Clause be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the said Bill for settling the Revenue is referred.

Then the House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Bill for settling the Revenue.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Dr. Edisbury;

Judgments against Oates.

Reversing Judgments against Oates.

Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire a present Conference with this House, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference touching the Amendments by them proposed to be made to the Bill, for reversing Two Judgments given in the Court of King's Bench against Titus Oates, Clerk.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House doth agree to a present Conference, as is desired.

And then the Messengers being called in again; Mr. Speaker acquainted them therewith.

Resolved, That the Committee, who managed the last Conference, do manage this Conference.

And the Managers went to the Conference, accordingly.

And being returned;

Mr. Hamden reports from the Conference with the Lords, That the Earl of Rochester managed the same on the Part of the Lords; and said, That since they were so unhappy to disagree with this House, he would give them their Reasons: Which are as followeth; viz.

The Lords insist on the first Amendment, for the Reasons following;

1. New Matter might have arisen between the First and the subsequent Trials; but nothing of this lies before them; nor has the Evidence, upon which the Verdicts were given, been yet examined.

2. There does not yet appear to the Lords any Evidence, much less any that is unquestionable, of any such Sums of Money expended upon the Jurors and Witnesses, as might render the Prosecution unfair or corrupt; which the Lords conceive ought of Necessity to be proved, before it can reasonably be expected, that they should depart from their Amendment.

The Third Reason carries such Consequences after it, to the reversing so many Judgments as were given in a Course of many Years; and the Particulars relating to this Matter not appearing yet to the Lords, by any Evidence that has been laid before them; the Lords cannot agree to it.

The Lords insist upon the Second Amendment, for the same Reasons as were offered for the First.

The Lords insist on the Third Amendment; and think that this Sentence was unprecedented, notwithstanding the Precedents of the Star Chamber: For this Judgment having been in the King's Bench, no Precedent is offered of any such Judgment in that Court.

The Lords insist on the Fourth Amendment, for the same Reasons they offer for the First.

The Lords think, that for the same Reason which the Commons give, the Affirmance of the Judgments in the King's Bench falling with the said Judgments, the said Affirmance needs not to be mentioned.

The Lords insist upon the Fifth Amendment, for the Reasons offered for the First.

The Lords insist upon Clause A, as safest for the Subject, it being very usual in declaratory Laws, not only to Declare the Law, but also to Enact it.

The Lords insist upon the Clause B for these Reasons:

1. This not being a Reversal by Judgment, but by Act of Parliament, the Lords do not think themselves restrained to the Forms of Law, that are to be observed in Judgments.

2. The Lords lay no new Censure on Titus Oates, they only leave him in the State in which they found him, as to his being a Witness, till the Particulars are examined.

3. The Lords intend not to bring in Question the Popish Plot: But they think it both for the Honour of the Nation and Religion, that the Validity of Titus Oates his Evidence, for the future, should not be allowed, nor a Conviction, passed in the Forms of Law, be set aside, till the whole Matter of Fact be duly examined.

Which Report being read at the Table;

A Debate arose thereupon.

And the Amendments, proposed by the Lords to be made to the said Bill, being severally read;

And the Question severally put thereupon, That the House do agree with the Lords therein;

It passed thereupon in the Negative.

Resolved, That the Committee, to whom it was referred to prepare Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the Lords, Why this House did not agree with the Lords in the Amendments by them proposed to be made to the said Bill, do prepare Reasons to be offered at a free Conference touching the same.

Ordered, That Mr. Paul Foley, Mr. Hamden, Sir Thom. Lee, Sir John Trevor, Sir Wm. Williams, Sir Hen. Capell, Mr. Finch, be added to the said Committee: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Four of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

Supply Bill, Settling Revenue.

Resolved, That this House do, To-morrow Morning, Ten of the Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to proceed in the further Consideration of the Bill for settling the Revenue.

Privilege.

A Complaint being made to the House, That Mr. Ramsden, a Member of the House, having left one Mr. Toby Humphrycs, a menial Servant of his, here in Town, to do Business for him here; that the said Humphries was arrested, and put into the Compter in London, at the Suit of one Giles Allington, in Breach of the Privilege of this House;

Resolved, That it be referred to the Committee of Privileges and Elections, to examine the Matter; and report the same, with their Opinions therein, to the House.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine of the Clock.