House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 25 July 1689

Jovis, 25 die Julii; 1° Gulielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Claims on Revenue.

A PETITION of Dame Goodetha Prise, Relict of Sir Herbert Price, Baronet, Master of the Houshold to his late Majesty King Charles the Second, was read; setting forth, That the Petitioner was Maid of Honour to the Queen Mother; and in lieu of a Marriage Portion, usually given to others, his Majesty King Charles the First was graciously pleased, by his Letters Patents, to grant to the Petitioner, and her Husband, and the longest Liver of them, an Annuity of Four hundred Pounds per Annum, payable Quarterly at the Exchequer: That the Petitioner is now helpless and infirm, being Eighty Years old, and hath nothing for herself and Family to subsist on, but her said Annuity; which if taken away, they must be ruined: And praying a Continuance of her Pension, during that short time she, in all Likelihood, can live.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for settling the Revenue, is referred.

A Petition of Edmund Portmans was read; setting forth, That the Petitioner did lend his late Majesty King Charles the Second Twenty-two thousand Six hundred and Four Pounds, which was secured to him by Three several Tallies of Loan, upon the Fourth Quarter of the Eighteen Months Tax granted to his Majesty in the Twenty-fifth Year of his Reign: And the said Money, with all Interest for the same, is still owing: And praying, when the Revenue Bill comes to be settled, that his Case may be taken into Consideration.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for settling the Revenue, is committed.

Act against multiplying Gold and Silver.

Sir Walter Moyle reports from the Committee, to whom the Bill for repealing the Statute of 5 Hen. IV. against multiplying Gold and Silver, was referred, That the Committee had thought fit to make several Amendments to the Bill: Which he read in his Place, with the Coherence; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table; Where the same were the first Time read throughout; and afterwards, a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Ordered, That the Bill, so amended, be ingrossed.

Shirly's Estate.

Resolved, That the ingrossed Bill, sent down from the Lords, intituled, An Act for enabling Hannah Shirly, Widow, and Mary Batilhey, alias Shirley, her Daughter, to settle and dispose of certain Lands and Tenements, in the Counties of Middlesex and Essex, be now read.

The Bill was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time.

Supply Bill; Coffee, Tea, &c.

Resolved, That the Committee appointed to prepare Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the Lords, Why this House doth not agree to the Amendments proposed by the Lords to the Bill, for collecting the Duties upon Coffee, Tea, and Chocolate, at the Custom House, do withdraw, and sit, during the Sitting of the House.

Tanned Leather.

Resolved, That the ingrossed Bill, sent down from the Lords, intituled, An Act for explaining Part of an Act made in the First Year of King James the First, concerning Tanned Leather be now read.

The Bill was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second Time.

Importing Iron Wire.

A Petition of divers Freemen of London, and other Workers of Iron Wire, was read; setting forth, That the said Commodity of Iron Wire hath been, and is, of great and common Use in this Kingdom in several Trades, as particularly by Braziers, Tin-plate Workers, Makers of Boxes, Jack Chains, Bird Cages, Windows, Hooksand-eyes, and many other Trades; and many hundred Persons have been bred up in preparing Iron Wire in those and many other Trades, whereby they have comfortably maintained themselves and Families: That there were several Quantities imported of that Commodity, till of late Years upon Pretence of an old Statute in Edward the Fourth's Time, the same has been seized as prohibited Goods: That by reason of such Prohibition, and that there is not near sufficient of the said Commodity made in England, to satisfy for the several Uses it is to be employed in, there are many Families and Persons, who used to work in the said Commodity, are gone to Decay, for want of such wire to work on; and some of the Wire, made here, is not fit to be used in several of the said Works: And praying, That a Bill may be admitted to be brought in, to give Leave for the said Wire to be imported.

Resolved, That the Petition do lie upon the Table.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That the Lord Willoughby of Eresby have Leave to go into the Country, for Six Weeks.

Titus Oates.

A Petition of Titus Oates was read; setting forth, That the Petitioner upon the Address of the honourable House of Commons, in the Year 1678, had a Pension of Six hundred and Twenty-four Pounds per Annum settled upon him by the late King Charles the Second; and Sixty Pounds per Annum allowed for his Lodgings; and Two hundred Pounds per Annum for his Service to the King and Kingdom, in discovering the horrid Popish Conspiracy; of which Pension he has been debarred these Eight Years: That, for the said Discovery, the Petitioner hath been imprisoned above these Five Years, and put in the Pillory One-and-twenty Times, and whipped from Aldgate to Newgate, and from Newgate to Tyburne; and, by reason of his long Imprisonment and great Sufferings, is become very poor, and very much in Debt: And praying, That he may be restored to his Pension.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for settling the Revenue, is referred.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Johnson have Leave to go into the Country, for a Fortnight.

Claims on Revenue.

A Petition of John Danvers, Esquire, was read; praying a Proviso, annexed to it, might be added to the Bill for settling the Revenue: But was withdrawn for That Reason.

A Petition of Henry Earl of Peterborow was read; setting forth that the late King Charles the Second, by his Letters Patents, dated the One-and-thirtieth Day of March, in the Fifteenth Year of his Reign, in Consideration of the great Service of the Petitioner in possessing and settling the City, Fort, and Garison of Tangier in Africa, did grant the Annuity or Pension of One thousand Pounds per Annum, for the Petitioner's Life, payable out of the Exchequer: And praying, that the said Pension may be continued and paid, according to the Tenor of the Letters Patents.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for settling the Revenue, is committed.

Collection of Customs, &c. after Death of Charles II.

Mr. Papillion reports from the Committee, to whom it was referred to collect out of the Books and Proclamations touching the Customs and Excise, what they conceived necessary relating to the collecting the same, between the Death of King Charles the Second, and the Parliament which was held in the time of King James the Second, That the Committee had done the same accordingly: And he read the same in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth:

Relating to the Customs, they find, That the Commissioners that appeared at the Custom-house to sit and act for the collecting those Duties, from the Sixth Day of February 1684, the Time of the Death of King Charles the Second, to the Nineteenth Day of May, 1685, when the Parliament called by King James the Second, met, were as followeth; the Lord Cheny, Sir John Worden, Sir Nich. Butler, Sir Dudly North, Sir John Buckworth, Mr. Tho. Chudly, Mr. Wm. Dickenson:

That the Lord Cheny continued his Attendance to the Two-and-twentieth Day of March, some few Days excepted:

That a Patent for establishing Commissioners came the Third of March; and then Sir John Worden took his place:

That Sir Dudly North's first Appearance at the Custom House, as a Commissioner, was the Third of April; and Mr. Tho. Chudlye's the Seventh of April:

That the other Commissioners continued the Whole time, and constantly appeared, except only now-and-then, a Day's Intermission.

That The Sixth February, 1684, a Proclamation for the Continuance of Officers, notwithstanding the Death of King Charles the Second, was published.

That, this Proclamation was, by the Commissioners of the Customs, sent the Seventh of February to the several Ports; and the Officers required to receive the Duties for all Goods imported before his Majesty's Death.

That Sir Richard Temple signed these Letters with the rest of the Commissioners; and also appeared at the Custom House the Ninth of February: But, by the Books, it doth not appear that he came at any time after.

That the Tenth of February, Letters were sent signed by Sir Nicolas Butler, Sir John Buckworth, and Mr. Dickenson, to the Officers in the several Ports, with Proclamations for continuing the Collection of the Customs and Subsidies.

That the said Proclamation is dated the Ninth of February.

Collection of Customs, &c. after Death of Charles II.

That in these Books there doth not appear what Contests were with any Merchants touching the Payment of the Duties, nor what Presentments and Reports were made to, or what Directions received from, the Lord Treasurer; only the Seventh of April, there is Mention made in the Minute Book, of Three Parcels of Crape; and the Eighth of April, about Calves Skins at Hyth; and the Thirteenth April, Orders given to prosecute the Master of the Charity of Margett, for putting Goods on Shore the Nine-and-twentieth and Thirtieth of March: Also, in the Book of Abstract of Letters, it appears, that the Twelfth of March, 1684, Letters were sent to the several Ports, with Deputations to the Excise Officers to seize Goods. These Letters were signed by the Lord Cheny, Sir Nic. Butler, and Sir John Buckworth.

That the Twenty-fourth February, 1684, Letters, signed by the Lord Cheny, Sir Nic. Butler, and Wm. Dickenson, were sent to the Officers of the Customs in several Places, with Directions for the Choice of Parliament Men; some of which Letters had a Postscript to order the Officers to take Directions from the Duke of Albemarle, and the Earl of Bath: Another Letter, recommended Sir Robert Southwell for Penrin; and the rest were in general Terms.

That the Fourteenth March 1684, Letters, signed by Sir Nic. Butler, Sir John Worden, and Sir John Buckworth, were sent to the Officers in Kent, to assist for the Choice of Sir Wm. Twisden, and Major Knatchbold.

That Mr. Fran. Miller informed the Committee, That in less than Fourteen Days after the Death of King Charles the Second, he went down to the Custom House, to discourse the Commissioners: He told them, He was not free to pay the Customs, and had his Fears, what might come hereafter: And Sir Nicolas Butler told him, That it was Fears brought on the former Rebellion: That there was about Four of the Commissioners present; he doth not well remember their Names; but said, they told him, He could not have up his Goods, but he must pay the Customs.

That Mr. Nic. Cutler affirmed, That he remembered Mr. Miller's Application to the Commissioners; and that Sir Nic. Butler said, Fears and Jealousies were the first Step to the last Rebellion.

That Mr. William Cockram said, That there was discourse amongst the Merchants concerning the Customs: And that they appointed some of them to meet at the Custom House: and that he, with Mr. Miller, and some others, did meet, and went to the Commissioners: He remembered Sir John Buckworth, Sir Nic. Butler, and Mr. Wm. Dickenson, were present: That the Commissioners asked the Merchants, What Lawyers they had advised with: To which the Merchants replied, They had not advised with any Lawyers: Sir Nic. Butler replied, "We know what you are;" and said, If they would dispute, they were ready to dispute it: And Sir John Buckworth said to them, "Do not dispute it, it must be paid."

And relating to the Excise, they find a printed Proclamation, dated the Sixteenth February, in the first Year of King James the Second; setting forth, That whereas, the Commissioners of Treasury, viz. The Lord Godolphin, Sir John Ernly, Sir Stephen Fox, Sir Dudley North, and Frederick Thynn, had for the better Improvement of the Revenue of Excise, of 5 Februarii, contracted with Sir Peter Apsley, Sir Benjamin Bathurst, and Ja. Grahme, for the whole Duty of Excise for Three Years, from that Day, at the Rent of Five hundred and Fifty thousand Pounds, to be paid by Quarterly Payments; as also, that his Majesty had been certified, by the Opinion of the Judges, that the said Contract was valid in Law, and had Continuance, during the said Three Years, as well for that Part granted to Charles II^d for Life, as the other granted to him, his Heirs, and Successors, notwithstanding the Death of the said King: Therefore the said Proclamation requires all Commissioners and Sub Commissioners of Excise, and all Officers to be aiding and assisting in the collecting and levying the said Duties, for the said Terms of Three Years, &c.

A Copy of a Commission of King James the Second, dated Eleventh March, in the first Year of his Reign, to Sir Denny Asburnham, Baronet, Fra. Parrey, Esquire, Charles Davenant, Doctor of Laws, John Freind, Felix Calvert, Nathan' Hornbey, and Rich. Grahme, Esquire, reciting the several Acts of Parliament for granting the Excise, and the Contract made by the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury with Sir Peter Apsley, Sir Benjamin Bathurst, and James Grahme, for Three Years, as before expressed, doth nominate and appoint the said Sir Denny Ashburnham, &c. to be chief Commissioners and Governors for Receipt of the Excise; to execute all Powers made touching the collecting the said Duties, and to commissionate Officers in such Manner, as the Lord Treasurer, &c. by and with the Approbation of the said Sir Peter Apsley, &c. should direct: and also to levy all Fines and Forfeitures: The said Commission doth also impower the said Persons to collect the Duty on Fire-hearths, &c.

A Copy of an Indenture made the Thirtieth March 1685, between Sir Peter Apsley, Sir Benj Bathurst, and Ja. Grahme, on the one Part; and Sir Denny Ashburnham, Fran. Parry, Charles Davenant, John Friend, Felix Calvert, Nathanael Hornbey, and Rich. Grahme, on the other Part; reciting the several Acts of Excise, and the Contracts above-mentioned: And then the said Sir Peter Apsley, &c. constitute Sir Denny Ashburnham, &c. their true and lawful Attornies; and depute them, in their Names, to collect, levy, and receive, and cause to be collected, levied, and received, all the Impositions, &c.; and to apply the Money, first to the Payment of the Five hundred and Fifty thousand Pounds to the King, then to the Payment of all Salaries, and the Residue to them the said Sir Peter Apsley, &c.: And Sir Denny Ashburnham, &c. covenant to apply the Money accordingly.

Also a Copy of the King's Commission, dated Second April, in the First Year of his Reign, constituting Robert Spencer, Esquire, Charles Fanshaw, Esquire, Sir Paul Neale, Knight, Geo. Dodington, Esquire, and Edward Seymour, Esquire, to be Commissioners of Appeals.

That all the afore-mentioned Commissioners of the Excise, but Felix Calvert, subscribed a List of the Salaries for the Quarter, beginning the Five-and-twentieth of December 1684, and ending Twenty-fifth March 1685; and another List of Salaries, from 25 March, 1685, to the Four-and-twentieth of June following, was signed by Francis Parry, Charles Davenant, John Freind, and Nathanael Horneby: Both which Lists were presented to the Lord Treasurer for his Allowance, as appears by the Copies of the said Lists, registered in the Excise Books presented to the House.

Resolved, That the Report do lie upon the Table, to be considered when the Heads of Exceptions out of the Bill of Indemnity shall come on again to be considered.

Supply Bill Coffee, Tea, &c.

Sir John Trevor reports from the Committee, appointed to prepare Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the Lords, why this House doth not agree with the Lords in the Amendments by them proposed to be made to the Bill for collecting the Duty upon Coffee, Tea, and Chocolate, at the Custom House, That the Committee had prepared the same accordingly: and he read them in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read; and agreed unto by the House; and are as followeth; viz.

Reasons to be given to the Lords at a Conference against their Amendments to the Bill for collecting the Duties upon Coffee, Tea, and Chocolate, at the Custom House.

1st. The Commons have always taken it for their undoubted Privilege (of which they have ever been jealous, and tender,) That, in all Aids given to the King by the Commons, the Rate, or Tax, ought not to be any way altered by the Lords. The Amendment made by your Lordships, being in point of Time, the Commons hope your Lordships will not, at this Time, renew a Question concerning the Method of granting Aids, which has formerly, in Instances of like Nature, occasioned great Debates; and which may now beget many Conferences, spend much Time, and end in great Inconveniencies.

2. This Amendment, proposed by your Lordships, makes the Bill incoherent: For both Houses having agreed, That the Forfeitures should commence from the Twentieth of July, it will look strange, that the Forfeitures should begin before the Duty is made payable.

3. Ships are now arriving daily with the Commodities mentioned in the Bill; which will be a Loss to the King, by putting the Commencement of the Duty so far off.

4. As to the Proviso, which your Lordships have sent to the Commons, the Commons do disagree to it; and for That do refer to their First Reason; the Proviso being, an Alteration and Lessening of the Grant, made by the Commons. And the Commons do, for these Reasons, hope your Lordships will agree with them; and not revive old Disputes.

Conference desired with Lords.

Resolved, That a Conference be desired with the Lords upon the Subject Matter of the said Amendments.

Ordered, That Mr. Pelham do go up to the Lords, to desire the said Conference.

Claims on Revenue.

A Petition of Eliz. Elyott, Foster Sister to King Charles the Second, was read; setting forth, That her late Husband Mr. Thomas Elyott, Groom of the Bed Chamber to King Charles the Second, had spent the best Part of his Life in his Majesty's and his Father's Service; and dying left the Petitioner with Five Children, without maintenance: That his Majesty, taking her deplorable Condition into Consideration, with the said Services of her Husband and Father (who spent near Three thousand Pounds per Annum in the Service of the Crown); and that the Petitioner had the Honour to be his Foster Sister, (her Mother having been his said Majesty's Nurse); did, by his Letters Patents, grant to her a Pension of Five hundred Pounds per Annum for Life; which she enjoyed during his Majesty's Life: But when the late King James came to the Crown, upon her refusing to turn Papist, though often solicited by a Priest thereto, she was denied any Benefit of her Patent; and hath received nothing, since his said Majesty King Charles died, thereon: And praying that some Provision may be made, for securing her said Pension, in the Bill for settling the Revenue, or otherwise as the House shall think fit.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for settling the Revenue, is referred.

Regulating Tryals.

A Message from the Lords, by Doctor Edisbury and Mr. Meredeth;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have commanded us to put this House in mind of an Act for Regulation of Tryals.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Conference with Lords.

Mr. Pelham acquaints the House, That he having, according to their Order, been up to the Lords to desire a Conference; they do agree to a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber.

Resolved, That the Committee to whom it was referred to prepare the Reasons for the said Conference, do manage the Conference.

Then the Managers went to the Conference accordingly:

And being returned;

Mr. Hamden reports, from the Conference with the Lords, That the Managers had attended the same; and delivered their Reasons, why this House doth not agree with the Lords in the Amendments to the said Bill.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Preston have Leave to go into the Country, for a Month.

Ordered, That Mr. Manaton have Leave to go into the Country, for Five Weeks.

Supply Bill; settling Revenue.

Then the House resolved into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Bill for settling the Revenue.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Royal Assent to Bills.

A Message from his Majesty, by Sir Thomas Duppa, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod;

Mr. Speaker,

The King commands this honourable House to attend His Majesty, immediately, in the House of Peers.

Accordingly Mr. Speaker, with the House, went up to attend his Majesty.

And being returned;

Mr. Speaker acquaints the House, That his Majesty had given the Royal Assent to several Bills; viz.

An Act for an additional Duty of Excise upon Beer, Ale, and other Liquors.

An Act to regulate the Administration of the Oaths required to be taken by Commission or Warrant Officers, employed in their Majesties Service by Land, by Virtue of an Act made this present Session of Parliament, intituled, An Act for the abrogating the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance, and appointing other Oaths.

An Act for taking away the Court holden before the President and Marches of Wales.

An Act to vest, in the Two Universities, the Presentations of Benefices belonging to Papists.

An Act for erecting a Court of Conscience at Newcastle upon Tyne.

An Act for erecting Courts of Consciences in the Cities of Bristoll and Gloucester, and the Liberties thereof.

An Act for the better Regulating of the Salt-works in Droitwich.

An Act to enable Thomas Chettle to sell Part of his Estate, for Payment of his Debts, and making Provision for his Wife and Children.

Supply Bill; settling Revenue.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Mr. Hamden reports from the Committee of the whole House, That they had made some Progress in the Bill for settling the Revenue; and had agreed upon a Resolution, which they had directed him to report to the House: And he read the same in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth; viz.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That a Motion be made to the House, That a Committee be appointed to prepare and bring in a Clause, That the Duties, settled by the Book of Rates, now in being, shall continue and be collected, until a new Book of Rates shall be settled by the Commons in Parliament, and signed by their Speaker, and no longer; and to Enact, That the said new Book of Rates shall be settled between the Space of Three Years, from the First Day of August, which shall be in the Year of our Lord 1689.

The said Resolution being read a Second time;

Resolved, That the House doth agree with the Committee, That a Committee be appointed to prepare and bring in a Clause, That the Duties settled by the Book of Rates, now in being, shall continue and be collected until a new Book of Rates shall be settled by the Commons in Parliament, and signed by their Speaker, and no longer; and to Enact, That the said new Book of Rates shall be settled within the Space of Three Years, from the First Day of August, which shall be in the Year of our Lord 1689.

And it is referred to Mr. Hamden, Sir William Williams, Mr. Sacheverell, Mr. Finch, Mr. Attorney General, Sir Hen. Capell, Mr. Solicitor General, Mr. Buscowen, Sir John Trevor, Sir Wm. Ashurst, Mr. Grey, Colonel Birch, Sir Tho. Lee, Sir Patience Ward, or any Three of them: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Five of the Clock in the Speaker's Chamber.

Then Mr. Hamden also acquainted the House, That he had Direction from the Committee to move the House, That they may sit again To-morrow Morning at Ten of the Clock.

Resolved, That this House do, To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House to proceed in the further Consideration of the Bill for settling the Revenue.

A Petition of the Duchess of Buccleug, was read; setting forth, That the late King Charles obliged himself to lay out Forty thousand Pounds Sterling, as a Purchase for Land, in Consideration of a Marriage he proposed between the Petitioner and the late Duke of Monmouth; but his Affairs not permitting him to lay out so great a Sum, he, by Two Letters Patents, dated Twenty-second February 1664, and Eighteenth June 1673, did grant to the Duke Two Pensions, amounting to Eight thousand Pounds per Annum, and a Jointure of Four thousand Pounds per Annum to the Petitioner, payable out of the Excise: And praying a Confirmation of such her Jointure.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for settling the Revenue, is referred.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine of the Clock.