Venice: September 1627, 17-20 | British History Online

Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 20, 1626-1628. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1914.

Citation:

'Venice: September 1627, 17-20', in Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 20, 1626-1628, ed. Allen B Hinds( London, 1914), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/venice/vol20/pp380-389 [accessed 28 November 2024].

September 1627



Sept. 17. Senato, Secreta. Deliberazioni. Venetian Archives.	474. To the Ambassador in England.
	Montagu at Turin has revived the idea of transferring English trade from Leghorn to Villefranche. You will try and find out the real motives for this, and encourage the idea if it really exists, as well as any inclination in the ministers and merchants to take their trade to Venice. By showing diligence in this and in sending word you will afford us great satisfaction.
	The enclosed letters to the Ambassador Soranzo will give you the news and our views upon the reconciliation of France and England; you will always speak as we have instructed you, whenever an opportunity occurs, always observing the utmost prudence and address.
	A Scottish gentleman, introduced into the Collegio by his Majesty's ambassador, presented some verses in praise of Venice. This gave us great pleasure, and the republic will always hold him dear, as it does all that most noble nation. You will bear witness to this at every opportunity.
	Ayes, 94.	Noes, 0.	Neutral, 3.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 18. Senato, Secreta, Dispacci, Costantinopoli. Venetian Archives.	475. SEBASTIANO VENIER, Venetian Ambassador at Constantinople, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The consul of Smyrna writes to me of the objections raised by the English ambassador against Mustafa Pasha, appointed inquisitor in those parts. I have never meddled with this, knowing that I should only earn the hatred and malevolence of that individual without doing any good. They sent to the Cadi of that place to summon the consuls of the nations and ask them if it was true that he had levied money of them unlawfully as he was accused of doing. On learning this the French and Venetian merchants decided that the consuls should write a letter to Mustafa, declaring that they had only made him a present, of their free will. Without this they feared the Pasha might inflict some hurt on the nations, and, indeed, in the present state of affairs there is no one with sufficient authority to remedy the evils that occur. The English consul would not sign the letter, and the English ambassador told me he had ordered him to leave the place with all the English merchants, and he will not permit them to return before receiving the satisfaction which he assured me had been promised.
	The Vigne of Pera, the 18th September, 1627.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 18. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Roma. Venetian Archives.	476. ANZOLO CONTARINI, Venetian Ambassador in Rome, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	I expressed to the Ambassador Bethune your Serenity's deep sorrow at the continuation of the quarrel between his sovereign and England; you had made various efforts to bring about peace and were grieved to hear of rumours casting doubts upon your friendliness to the Most Christian. I think I impressed him and he said his king had never doubted your Serenity's perfect friendliness. He spoke with heat of the attempts to sow dissension between friendly princes by false rumours. He went on to say that reasons of state induce princes to stand better with one than with another, and even if your Serenity cherished an equal friendship for both kings, your own interests should incline you rather to France, who has always done more for you and for all Italy than England possibly can. He had said the same to the ambassador of Savoy.
	He said he would always advise his king to make peace. Between two great equal powers honour should not stand in the way of advantage, because every one knows that the King of France can maintain war against England, so that peace, however made, would not dishonour him, always provided that the English do not want to include his Majesty's subjects in the agreement. In that case he would rather advise unceasing war.
	He had nothing from France, as he had no letters by the ordinary, but he confirmed the great distress of fort St. Martin, especially for lack of water, and that the besieged were using sea water. Without relief it would fall in a few days.
	Rome, the 18th September, 1627.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 18. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Spagna. Venetian Archives.	477. ALVISE MOCENIGO, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The Marquis of Rambouillet has called and told me that a large succour has entered the fort of St. Martin. He felt sure that his king will be able to put so many men in the Isle of Ré that they will have no difficulty in expelling the English by force. He considers this highly desirable, because the Spanish assistance would not arrive in time, they would not be beholden to them and it would be easier to arrange an adjustment. The Spaniards want to arrange things so that the French cannot be reconciled with the English without them, and in this way they aim at shutting out all negotiations about the Palatinate.
	I have tried in many ways to discover if there is any definite stipulation between the French and this country, and I find that they have merely decided upon the assistance without any agreement. Rambouillet told me, in fact, that Olivares frequently asked him what return they would make for this favour, and he replied that if they were similarly attacked by the English his king would send assistance; so it may be there is nothing more.
	Madrid, the 18th September, 1627.
	[Italian; deciphered.]
Sept. 19. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Ceffalonia. Venetian Archives.	478. MARIN MUDAZZO, Proveditore of Cephalonia, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The rains have diminished the quantity of currants, and owing to their scarcity the people here hope to sell them at 25 reals the thousand and more; but this must be very uncertain until the ships come to lade them.
	Cephalonia, the 9th September, 1627, old style.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Signori Stati. Venetian Archives.	479. GIOVANNI SORANZO, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	Carleton himself told me that at his last audience he presented the letters of his Majesty in reply to the offices of the States. He gave me a copy, which I enclose, binding me to great secrecy. I learned afterwards from a member of the government that they are not in conformity with the copy sent by the Ambassador Joachim. I have not been able to learn the variations, but I know they have caused much comment and perhaps before the end of next week there may be trouble. However, I am told that ambassadors will be sent to both Courts. The French ambassador confirmed this, but said their visit would be ill timed. I cannot place much reliance on what he says because he has not the good will that is required, and he may consider this mission an affront.
	In conversation he told me that food and munitions for six weeks have been introduced into the fort. The Spanish help is arriving. The face of things has changed, from being Buckingham's the cause has become public. The English will have to demolish the fort they have built. The decision to ask help of Spain was precipitate. They will deceive the cardinal and when it comes to the point they will not fight. They may not unite yet, but if the affair goes on it will be necessary to have recourse to these means. His king would like to hire ships here, but that cannot be done quickly and Carleton himself had contrived to raise the price and induce delay.
	At the same audience Carleton passed an office similar to that of Wake at Venice. Carleton asked me about it and I gave him the particulars. I took the opportunity to renew the offices I had already performed, expressing the desire of your Excellencies for this reconciliation. He replied that from the time of his arrival here the friendly wishes of your Serenity in this matter had greatly consoled him. He said that his king was the first to be offended and so he could not speak first. Of the French he might say that the one who gives offence does not pardon and so they will not make advances either, so he did not see a way out, though he knew no one could contribute more for the good of this cause than the two republics, especially your Serenity. I replied that your Excellencies had no greater desire than this accommodation and would consider any means right which brought it about. I told him I knew of the paper that Montagu had left with the Duke of Savoy. As he seemed inclined to laugh at this, I added that Scaglia had shown it to me on his arrival and I thought I had a copy. To my astonishment he replied: I do not know what paper that can be. I know that no mention was made of it when I left the Court. He knew he had seen it, but had thrown it aside as of no consequence. He added: I must say that my king will always esteem the duke highly, as his father did, but I must tell you in confidence that I do not see what good his intervention will be for peace, as he has not a great reputation for being pacific. However, it is not necessary to repeat this to Scaglia. I promised silence, but I cannot help marvelling at his using this expression, as from what one sees and hears daily one would assume a complete confidence with his Highness.
	I tried to induce him to say what would be the best way of taking the first steps in this matter, but he would not give an opinion, confining himself to generalities. He told me he heard something of a treaty between France and Spain. I would not confirm this, but said that if France were hard pressed she might take some dangerous step. He replied that the French have been leaning towards the Spaniards for some time abissus abissum invocat. After the peace of Monzon the cardinal wanted not only peace but a league with them. To sound him I remarked that a great deal was said about an adjustment between the Dutch and some others with them. He assured me there were no grounds for this. The present state of affairs compelled them to listen to what was proposed, but believe me, he said, it will all end in talk. I do not think that he was deceiving me.
	He spoke of Denmark and then of the needs of these provinces, asking me for help. I replied that they needed help from England and France much more than from your Serenity. You would do all in your power, but the States must not ask for more than you can give. He said that the public cause had no greater interest than the maintenance of this State. It could only endure through war. The powers interested must help it to maintain the fight. I spoke of what the republic had done. He said that the States might rely on his king's affection, as for their sake he had declared war on his most powerful enemy. I asked him for a copy of Buckingham's manifesto, which he gave me. He said he did not think the duke could have done such a petty thing and he believed he had not even seen it, but that some one of La Rochelle had published it. I enclose a copy, though I have seen it printed. I also enclose a packet from England, which arrived two days ago.
	The Hague, the 20th September, 1627.
	[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Enclosure.	480. Letter of the King of Great Britain to the States General of the Low Countries.
	We have received your letters from your ambassador. We always receive your representations as coming from well beloved allies. In reply we would represent that you may judge by our past actions our desire to stay the victorious course of the King of Spain in Germany and the establishment of a good peace. You have an ambassador in France and you must know that we have been forced to a rupture, quite against our wish. We beg you to consider how prejudicial to us it would be it we allowed the French King to make himself master at sea and to suppress his good subjects of the reformed faith, for whose defence we are bound by his own act. The breach of his promises and the sudden treaty made covertly with Spain will serve to indicate whether a war directed to reform his intentions is not more advantageous for the common cause than to allow him to pursue his designs, directed by the council you wot of.
	It is manifest that we were driven to the seizure of the ships by their own seizure of ours, contrary to the freedom of trade and to treaties solemnly made between the two crowns. They committed these acts of hostility after the ratification without any reason whatsoever.
	In the seizure of French ships by way of reprisals, some goods of your subjects, mixed with the French, were taken. After due examination they have been duly adjudicated upon. We beg you not to treat this as the act of an enemy, as you must know that we are justified upon this point. A state of war would be much worse. We do not wish to dwell upon this, but to assure you that we think of nothing less than to inflict the slightest injury upon you, and if any wrong is done by our subjects we shall redress it with severity and justice.
	With respect to your proposal for a reconciliation with the Most Christian, and your offer of mediation, we ask you in the first place to consider all that may be most advantageous for the welfare of your State and the common cause. We cannot with honour make any proposal, as being the first offended, and we cannot receive overtures proceeding from you, with whom we are so closely allied; but if our brother makes us see his intention for an accommodation through you or some other, with time and place, we shall always be ready to listen to reason and prove how ready we are to do everything that may be to the advantage of the public weal and the safety of Germany, and then give you proof of the esteem we have for your mediation, and what great influence it has with us.
	From our palace at Woodstock, the 5th August, 1627.
	[French.]
Sept. 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Signori Stati. Venetian Archives.	481. GIOVANNI SORANZO, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	Langerach writes that the greater part of the articles of the alliance are arranged. But the States will not agree to two, one about helping France against any one soever and the other to inform France of all negotiations with the Spaniards. I believe there is a similar article in their alliance with the English, and this may have induced the French demands.
	Scaglia remains here privately. He spoke to me doubtfully about his journey to England.
	The Hague, the 20th September, 1627.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Savoia. Venetian Archives.	482. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	I performed the office entrusted to me with the Ambassador Marini. I spoke of the neutrality of the republic and its desire for a reconciliation between the two crowns. I expressed your Serenity's regret at hearing reports of your supposed partiality for England. The ambassador took me by the arm and said: It is true that in France they believe the republic is very partial to England. The ambassador is the cause of it, as he is constantly writing against the present government, as if it was the worst in the world. It also has confidential relations with those most mistrusted by the king, especially the Countess of Soissons. I assured him I had never read a word in the despatches disparaging the French ministers, and tried to convince him of the excellent intentions of the republic. Marini then asked me to let these particulars remain between ourselves. He was sure of your Serenity's good will.
	I have not spoken with Montagu, as he is still in bed with dysentry and is in no state to receive visitors. He has fallen into an extreme melancholy, is disgusted with everything and will not listen to those dearest to him. One fears greatly for his life, especially as he will not obey the physicians or behave as he ought. I send every day and he has expressed his thanks by the secretary of the English ambassador at Venice.
	Turin, the 20th September, 1627.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Savoia. Venetian Archives.	483. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The secretary of the English ambassador confirmed to me that the Duke of Chevreuse had made his peace, asking pardon of the queen mother and confessing that the Count of Soissons and the Duchess of Chevreuse had some hand in the movement of the English. When he sent a gentleman to the Countess of Soissons to tell her that the differences with England would soon be accommodated, she answered that he had done an unworthy thing and she would not receive the news. He said the duke would go to Auvergne. The French wanted to get the duchess out of Lorraine, but Montagu sent a courier to Lorraine some days ago to stay her, and he had also written to the Duke of Chevreuse to go to Lorraine, thinking it important to get him out of France.
	Turin, the 20th September, 1627.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Savoia. Venetian Archives.	484. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The Count of Verua told me that Richelieu said to Moretta that if the duke arranged an honourable settlement of this quarrel with the English the French would come with all their forces to bring the Genoese to reason. He had agreed that the duke should treat about the manner of the withdrawal of the English forces; but so far Marini has received nothing on the subject, and he thinks the cardinal said this for himself alone.
	The question of bringing trade to Villefranche remains in suspense owing to the illness of Montagu. They say some English ships will go to that port and gradually take to frequenting it. Meanwhile, the duke is improving the road over the Colla di Tenda, and they will make a canal at Cunio leading to the Po, making the journey by land very short. Two very great difficulties stand in the way, firstly, the English merchants want some security for their capital outside the duke's dominions, remembering the merchants of S. Gallo, but his Highness cannot admit this claim. The other is the need of substantial merchants at Nice to receive the goods, so that the ships may not have to remain there a long while to dispose of them. Although Baronis and some others are ready to set up houses there, these would not meet the requirements. There is also some question as to the safety of the port owing to the winds, but they hope to provide against this easily. For the rest there are very great facilities for everything. The King of England is anxious to gratify the duke and will certainly do everything possible to introduce this trade, although at first it will be very feeble.
	Turin, the 20th September, 1627.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Savoia. Venetian Archives.	485. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Savoy to the DOGE and SENATE.
	News from abroad is utterly contradictory. Arbo has informed Marini of the relief of fort St. Martin by thirteen large barques, while Soissons and the duke hear that the news is false. The notable action of a soldier of the regiment of Champagne, named Pierfort, is described to all. With two barrels under his arms and his letters in a horn tied to his heart, he ventured to swim the sea to take them to the king. He remained ten hours in the water, pursued for four of them by two English shallops, which kept losing sight of him owing to the waves, and could never catch him. He finally reached land, but with his legs ruined by the bites of the fishes. In the letters the governor represents that he will have to surrender if he is not relieved soon, declaring he has not received a loaf since the English landed.
	Arbo writes that the king has surrounded La Rochelle with his troops; on the other hand, we hear that they have not decided about the building of the forts. Soissons says that Guise is clamouring because he sees no sign of forming an adequate fleet in time.
	The advices about the negotiations of Richelieu, the English and the Spaniards are equally contradictory. The cardinal says the king will not listen to negotiations until the English leave France. But we hear that he has procured, even with money, the sending of the Danish ambassadors to England for this purpose. The ambassador has admitted the news that the Rochellese are treating for an accommodation by themselves, accepting the demolition of fort St. Louis, and the cardinal does not object. Yet the Rochellese have a good understanding with Buckingham, and report speaks of the construction of new forts, not of destruction.
	France receives help from the Spaniards and at the same time concludes a league with the Dutch in the face of the ambassadors of the Catholic. They may witness the contract, of which Arbo writes to Marini, whereby Holland undertakes to give 25 ships for the defence of France. The cardinal builds greatly upon these, though it is difficult to see how ships of France, Spain and Holland can act together. The Ambassador Messia has received rich presents from the cardinal, who at the same time complains of the impertinent demands of the Spaniards and pays money to their enemies.
	The Spaniards promise ships to France, while they encourage the Bishop of Verdun and carry on negotiations with the English, possibly to the hurt of France. They say the Earl of Carlisle will go soon to Brussels and he may easily proceed to Lorraine, where it seems that the English and Spaniards, and perhaps the pope also, foment the evil humours there. Others say that the negotiations at Brussels are for a general peace between France, Spain and England with the restoration of the Palatine, but Montagu told a person of standing that he would stake his head if the English put the peace negotiations with France in any other hands than those of the Duke of Savoy. He had promised this to his Highness and obtained confirmation from his king. My informant does not believe that the English will remain so firm if they do not take fort St. Martin.
	I have learned covertly that Montagu has a passport of Don Gonzales di Cordova, and he may go on to Venice for his own pleasure. He is much better and has sent me word that he hopes to be well in a few days.
	The Governor of Lyons writes that his son has been ordered to the Isle of Oleron with some regiments. This casts doubt on the news of the relief of fort St. Martin, and shows the fear of the ministers that when the fort has fallen the English may turn against the island in question.
	A reply has arrived to Buckingham's manifesto, printed in Paris. There is only one copy, so I had it transcribed.
	Turin, the 20th September, 1627.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Spagna. Venetian Archives.	486. ALVISE MOCENIGO, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	Many debates have taken place about the help for France. There were many who opposed it, because of the need of defending their own coasts, and that they would do better to make terms with the English without irritating them by these forces, quoting an old proverb: Peace with England and war with all the world; the French disqualified themselves for the help by their assistance to the Dutch. Others thought that they should grant the help on condition of the withdrawal of the pensions to the Dutch. Others said that it behoved his Majesty, as the foremost king in the world, to assist a friendly Catholic monarch attacked by heretics, the common enemies. If they made an agreement with the French, they would not keep their engagements and so they would gain nothing by the help. They have decided to give the help and made arrangements. I am sure there will be no conditions, but it may be that the Count of Olivares has a good understanding with the Cardinal Richelieu.
	Don Federico di Toledo has gone to Coruna. He will have the squadron of Don Antonio di Ochendo and that of Don Francesco d'Alevado. There will be about 22 large ships and other small ones for which they have a name of their own, bissacine zabre, propelled by oars. They will number twenty, commanded by Captain Riviera. Another squadron will join the fourth fleet, which they reckon will consist of 46 large ships and 20 small ones, all well armed. They will be provisioned for the whole time of their stay and return. The Duke of Guise will have the command, and they will be auxiliaries.
	Madrid, the 20th September, 1627.
	[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Sept. 20. Cinque Savii alla Mercanzia, vol. 147. Venetian Archives.	487. The petition presented by the English merchants, John Plomonton, John Opson, Richard Gresuel and Alfred Boniton, may be summed up under three heads, (1) to grant an appeal to twenty Sages of the Senate against the judgment against them at Zante and Cephalonia for nearly 10,000 reals for some agreement made between them and the Flemings about currants, (2) that their deposit of 4,000 reals be not disturbed and (3) that they be allowed to trade in those islands as heretofore.
	We find that these English made an agreement to supply the Flemish ships with a quantity of currants at a certain fixed price, and they were condemned at Zante in their absence to 4,000 reals, being told that if they deposited that sum in twenty days they could continue to trade. At Cephalonia for the same cause 375 thousand of currants were confiscated, valued at 8 reals the thousand. Although we see that operations of this nature cause grave prejudice to the poor inhabitants by stopping competition and so keeping the price down, yet in gratification of this nation we think your Serenity should grant the petition for an appeal to the Senate and direct the Rectors not to touch the money deposited, so that the money may be ready, whatever the judgment. We also think you might grant them leave to continue to trade upon the deposit or pledge of the value of the currants confiscated, because since your Excellencies receive duties amounting to 64,000 ducats a year in those islands from currants, we think it advisable to grant every facility to merchants to come and take them, and this nation in particular.
	Dona Moresini,	Savii.
	Paulo Basadonna,
	Domenico Thiepolo,
	Andrea Dolfin,
	Agostin Bembo,
	[Italian.]