Venice: May 1624, 11-20 | British History Online

Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 18, 1623-1625. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1912.

Citation:

'Venice: May 1624, 11-20', in Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 18, 1623-1625, ed. Allen B Hinds( London, 1912), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/venice/vol18/pp305-315 [accessed 25 November 2024].

May 1624



May 11. Misc. Cod. No. 63. Venetian Archives.	381. MARC ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Germany, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The ordinary courier of this week brings word of the English parliament's determination upon war, and a league has been arranged with France and her allies. This is confirmed also from Brussels and has led to Ermestain leaving more speedily for Rome, as nothing makes them more uneasy here than the intervention of the Most Christian, while they affect to care little or nothing for the King of Great Britain.
	Vienna, the 11th May, 1624.
	[Italian; copy.]
May 13. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Signori Stati. Venetian Archives.	382. MARC' ANTONIO MORESINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	Yesterday their High Mightinesses received letters from their ambassadors in London, and since their arrival hopes of succour from that quarter seem to have revived. They relate that the king continues well disposed, and the prince and Buckingham seem more incensed than ever against the Spaniards, but they bring nothing certain. It is true that the question of arming the seventy ships now rests upon better foundations, and the one of helping their Provinces with 5,000 paid foot and 500 horse may easily be arranged if the English can make sure of two things, first that the Dutch will never make a truce without their permission, and second they want surety for the money lent to pay these soldiers during the war, if matters are accommodated; just and reasonable conditions enough but difficult to fulfil and almost impossible to resolve for reasons which I have given before.
	The ambassador of Cologne (fn. 1) left the day before yesterday without having obtained any success in his negotiations.
	The Hague, the 13th May, 1624.
	[Italian; deciphered.]
May 13. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Signori Stati. Venetian Archives.	383. MARC ANTONIO MORESINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	Five ships of war have sailed from Dunkirk and joined with three of Ostend, they are scouring these coasts. They chased a small Dutch ship right into the Thames, which only escaped by taking refuge under the fort. They have ordered the admiral of the coast to collect a fleet, search out these ships and humble their pride.
	The Count of Mansfeld has written from London to the Prince Palatine telling him of his arrival in that city. He says he will do everything in his power to induce the king to enter the league with France, Venice and Savoy, and he had gone to London with that object. If he succeeds he says the affairs of these princes will experience the greatest relief.
	The Hague, the 13th May, 1624.
	[Italian.]
May 13. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Signori Stati. Venetian Archives.	384. LORENZO PARUTA, Venetian Ambassador in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The Ambassador Marini told the secretary yesterday that if Mansfeld made an arrangement with the King of England, there would be no lack of other persons whom the king could employ, or of allies equally good. This makes me think that France would be glad not to have to do with Mansfeld.
	Turin, the 13th May, 1624.
	[Italian; deciphered.]
May 16. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Francia. Venetian Archives.	385. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The Count of Mansfeld returned to Boulogne from England, and the ministers here immediately sent to him not to stir without his Majesty's commands. I told the ministers of the good example set by England in receiving him. I have tried to get a hearing for the count from the king. They decided to allow Mansfeld a free passage through this realm, and that he may come to Paris, but they will not let him see his Majesty. I spoke to the Duke of Angoulême on the subject. He thinks that Mansfeld should have an army to serve the league. He does not altogether believe the promises that Mansfeld says he obtained from England, but is open to conviction, and they have written to their ambassador in London to verify this, as he has written nothing on the subject.
	Bacq a Choisy, the 16th May, 1624.
	[Italian; deciphered.]
May 16. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Francia. Venetian Archives.	386. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	In the discussions here some assert that open war with the Spaniards is impossible, but they must do what they can to bring into line (ordinar) the Swiss, Germany and the Dutch and draw closer to England, after which they can embark upon larger enterprises; and if Mansfeld knows how to manage his affairs and is not a double dealer, they may employ him.
	The French note with mistrust that the Earl of Carlisle postpones his journey from England. On one side they reckon that lack of money and the king's inclinations stay him, while they fear that the ambassador back from Spain may have brought some enchantment. But they think that England has gone so far that he cannot draw back. In addition to this there is the disposition to insist upon being asked and to obtain as much favour as possible for the Catholics of that kingdom. The Secretary Villeocler, who has that department of affairs, assured me that if the proposals of England are resolute they will be embraced here.
	The agent of Bavaria urges the sending of some one to that court to honour Bavaria with the title of elector; but here they have decided to satisfy the King of England in this, and they are more inclined to delay Bavaria's union with the Spaniards by negotiation than hopeful of success.
	The ordinary English ambassador has not left, but has stopped at Paris.
	Barq a Choysi the 16th May, 1624.
	[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
May 16. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Francia. Venetian Archives.	387. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in France, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	I have been to see the Cardinals who constantly take part in the King's Council. Rochefoucauld seemed glad to see me. I was especially explicit in my declaration of your Serenity s intentions to Richelieu, owing to his ability and good will. He commended the league and its results. He said they would stand by the Treaty of Madrid without alteration. For the rest they would do all they could without openly declaring war. They would operate in Germany, with the Swiss and Dutch and with England, but with care not to bring the war into France. The lilies must be set up again among the Swiss.
	As regards Mansfeld he said they wished to keep in the background, but the count was not a man to lose.
	It seems that the Nuncio Corsini, before leaving, make overtures for the marriage of Madame to the Infant Carlos, who, transferred to Flanders, might afterwards share the dominions of Spain. Rochefoucauld said it would be a great advantage, and they had example in the House of France in the division with that of Burgundy; but Richelieu referred to it as a proposition full of chimaeras, and the Spaniards prepared similar illusions in the time of the late king, when they offered Flanders as dowry and the Infanta as bride. All the ministers deny these negotiations to me; but I will keep my eyes open. Matteo Renzi, the Spanish chaplain, whose proposals for union between the two crowns were declined, continues to suggest marriages between Madame and the Infant Carlos, the emperor's daughter and the Prince of Wales, and the Palatine's eldest son and the daughter of the Duke of Bavaria. These are all old and not likely to take place.
	Bacq a Choysi, the 16th May, 1624.
	[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
May 17. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Inghilterra. Venetian Archives.	388. ALVISE VALARESSO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	A formal judgment, one may say, has been entered upon the office performed by the Spanish ambassadors against the Duke of Buckingham, he insisting upon his own justification and reprisals against his calumniators, they pursuing their accusations against him. Since what they said verbally the ambassadors have sent the king a paper, touching upon the prince, the Queen of Bohemia and the parliament, but directed chiefly against Buckingham and narrating at length, in the form of invective, the duke's crimes and his plans to depose the king and crown the prince. I enclose a copy of this paper which I obtained with great difficulty. (fn. 2)
	Last Sunday at Theobalds the king summoned the lords of the Council before him and examined them one by one on the truth of the accusation. They swore, English fashion, on the bible, which the king himself held, unanimously to the innocence and loyalty of Buckingham. This course has aroused various comments. Some think it contrary to the privileges of the nobles, who can only be judged by their peers and cannot be asked for an oath after their original one of fealty; others consider an oath favourable to Buckingham means nothing because many of the witnesses were in a sense his dependants. Some could not have confessed to treason even if they knew it without accusing themselves for not telling the king, and all had to consider the prince who was interested both on his own account and by his close alliance with Buckingham.
	Whatever the issue may be it is difficult to form an opinion; the enquiry demands a sentence. The innocence of Buckingham being thus proved makes him boldly pursue his resentment against the Spaniards, as there could not reasonably be any middle course. The king may have secretly desired the duke's fall, though there are difficulties in the way. The prince and Buckingham want the other, though greatly against the king's wishes. Upon what grounds the ambassadors built so violent an office remains obscure. It is not believed that they had orders from Spain, but they think that Inoiosa was responsible, as a violent and discredited minister. Some think the treasurer had a hand in the pie, and perhaps some other secret enemy of Buckingham took a share. Personally I believe they acted without any definite information, relying merely upon the king's peccant humour and innate disposition (ma io per me credo che si movessero quando non anco con una espressa intelligenza et concerto almeno di securo con l'humore pecante et con la dispositione medesima del Re).
	The ambassadors know only too well that everything that the king has done hitherto against their interests he has agreed to against his will and almost by force, and it is only too clear to them that not only are his inclinations averse from the present inclinations but that he entertains a perverse feeling against the authors thereof, which he is not always able to conceal, saying that he is a poor old man who once knew how to rule, but now knows nothing about it. A little while ago he told the prince, possibly in order to sound him, that he would let him do everything while he himself merely devoted his attention to living on, and when he told the prince and Buckingham of the sinister office performed by the Spanish ambassadors, on the next day, and almost extorted by force by their great pressure, it was observed that he wept copiously more than once, as if he believed what he had heard and hoped to secure himself against their dreaded attempts by exciting their compassion, and in the form of a suppliant. This is all the outcome and exhalation of extreme passion because he considers himself practically deprived of the sceptre, in short his mind is ulcerated and full of poison, disposing him to ruin not only others but possibly his own son also (conoscono troppo bene gl'Ambri. che quanto s'e operato sin' hora contro il lor servitio tutto acconsenti il Re contro genio, et come per forza, troppo, è a loro patente che tiene egli non solo una inclinatione aversa dalle rissolutione presenti, ma anco un talento perverso contro gli auttori di esse; certo non si può astener di scoprirsi alcuna volta, dice d'esser povero vecchio che già intendeva il governo ma che hor hora non ne sa nulla. Al Prencipe (forse per scandagliar il suo animo) disse poco fa che lasciarebbe far tutto lui, non si curando d'altro che di vivere: et nel rifferire ad esso et al Bochingam quel sinistro offitio fatto dalli Ambri. che fu un giorno dopo et quasi a viva forza estorto per l'instanze grandissime che gliene fecero si osservo che lagrimasse più di una volta dirottamente, quasi che prestando fede alle cose sentite volesse con la compassione et in forma di supplicante assicurarsi di quei temuti tentativi: tutte sgorgate et dirò cosi esalationi d'un estrema passione per credersi come privo dello scettro, in somma ha egli un animo essulcerato, pieno di veneno, et disposto a ruinare non che altri, anco forse el proprio figliolo).
	As a consequence he quite willingly sees the preparations for Buckingham's fall, and agreed to the bringing of these charges which he possibly helped to prepare, since mere suspicion is a sort of crime, a reason for discredit and a bridle to hold him back from the good enterprises which the king hates so much. Such, I believe, are his secret objects and his poisonous thoughts, but I should not like to say whether he really means to bite. Certainly he has many enemies, few confidants and no party. The Catholics recognise that he is old and failing and that they cannot rely upon him without involving their utter ruin when he dies in the near future. The prince has drawn all the popularity to himself and as against the royal authority, which the English reverence above everything else, he can in this case adduce the cause and the argument of his own succession. Thus uncertainty rules, subject to a thousand accidents, but so far advanced that most important results must soon appear, either very bad or very good, although with the most prudent fear of the former outweighs hope of the latter.
	The Ambassador Inoiosa has been to take leave of his Majesty, the prince but not Buckingham being present. I hear various accounts of the manner in which the king dealt with him, but this most trustworthy states that the prince was quite satisfied. Inoiosa obtained his leave although the king seemed inclined to refuse it until the business was concluded, but with the usual half way measures he gave it while binding him to come back another time. The day for the audience is not yet assigned to him. It is thought that he will receive a present of 3,000l. Father Maestro will remain behind, with whom Inoiosa has had some quarrel. This ambassador leaves the Catholics scandalized, the Protestants offended and all ill-content. He will apparently return to Spain in disgrace with his king, and the fall has been reported here of his kinsman Olivares, from whom he obtained this embassy and promised himself the governorship of Milan, but these reports are made with a purpose, as by discrediting the preceding ambassador his successor may more easily reopen negotiations, while the example of Olivares may affect Buckingham.
	The Treasurer's case is not yet completed, though it is expected hourly. The king spoke in his favour taking the responsibility of many things attributed to him. But as usual he was obscure and ambiguous and he may have done the treasurer more harm than good. Digby has arrived in this city. He received orders to keep to his own house and is almost worse than the king. They may have taken this step to save him or at least to withdraw him from the judgment of the parliament. In the general opinion if he does not perish Buckingham will fall. But a great noble told me that his affairs will die in oblivion as they cannot be touched without bringing to light things which had better remain concealed, suggesting to me that they concerned not only the king but Buckingham, in whose interests silence might be opportune, especially after this accusation (perchè non si può porvi mano senza iscoprir cose che stanno bene celate. accenandomi che non solo tocassero il Re ma il Bochingam medesimo per i cui interessi massime in questa congiontura dell' accusa possa esser opportuno il silentio).
	Digby has left his son in Spain to secure him against the shipwreck which he may have feared in England. He brings back jewels of great value which had been left in Spain, some as presents for the Infanta, others in pawn for money raised by the prince. His return when he held so much wealth in his hands is a great argument that he reckoned all would be well with him.
	The Dutch ambassadors as usual have made no progress with their business, the reason given being this case of Buckingham. At the last meeting the commissioners withdrew their demand for the fortresses and asked for the repayment over a certain period of the money devoted by England to succour them another very impertinent demand, as if they should not share the rewards together after having equal interests. But this is all due to the king's art, to give time and perhaps do nothing eventually. The ambassadors have decided to ask for their leave. They complain, but in vain, that Spanish ships enjoy every facility in this kingdom, which is refused to their own, and certainly the access and easy withdrawal afforded to the Spanish ships here renders fruitless the employment of many Dutch ones against them.
	The English who have returned from the West Indies report that the fleet is to leave at the end of this month with a million ducats and that some hundred Dutchmen who landed had been routed by the Spaniards.
	The clergy have granted the king their subsidy without any conditions. A proclamation banishing the religious is expected any day. In parliament a popular member with a very free tongue openly said that in respect to the Catholics they could not believe the king until they saw things actually done. They have done nothing yet about the subsidy. It will be the last act of this parliament whose dissolution is expected within a fortnight or else an adjournment to Michaelmas. The king is consumed with desire for its conclusion, and God grant that in the end they may not have magno conatu nihil.
	Mansfelt has sent an express here with letters relating the great proposals made by the Spaniards to the Duke of Savoy and asking that Wake may soon start for those parts. He also relates the honours prepared for him in France which must be considered the result of those he received here. It is certainly much and so is the promise that the king there will alone do as much as the three other princes of the league. I only hope the facts will correspond. The two conditions laid down in the paper, making the count the king's soldier and binding the kingdom to supply money are worth a great deal. But to tell the truth I feel no small misgiving because they have not said a syllable about it to the King of Bohemia, have not uttered a word in parliament and have not informed France, although they tell me that Carlisle has orders to do so. Brunswick sent a person here with letters from the King and Queen of Bohemia recommending him to the king. They have promised him the Garter vacated by the death of the Duke of Holstein (Hossein) (fn. 3), and the prince has sent the King and Queen of Bohemia a present of some horses. They have also promised their agent that the ships which are being fitted out, although slowly, shall be employed at their pleasure.
	The merchants here are all in favour of an open declaration either of friendship or of hostility with Spain, as amid these lukewarm resolutions they cannot derive the advantages of enemies or the benefits of friends. The Duke of Buckingham is physically unwell, possibly arising from mental distress, and both may grow worse. Carlisle, Anstruther and Wake constantly say they are leaving for their posts, but the step is always delayed.
	London, the 17th May, 1624.
	Postscript.—The treasurer defends himself well; his case is again adjourned for three days; it is expected that the sentence will be quite light. All the lords of the Council have been to the king to-day, to represent to him that as they obeyed in taking the oath as to Buckingham's loyalty, he ought not to allow Inoiosa's presumption to go unpunished. The majority of them wished to speak strongly but Canterbury with a moderation adapted to the king's character asked that he might be dismissed, as if he had not orders to leave, and that his Majesty should write to the King of Spain complaining of his conduct and asking for his due punishment. Apparently the king expressed his intention of complying, and they hope that the ambassador will leave without a present and without the usual signs of esteem. Wake told me this just now, but I do not know if I can credit it. Wake also tells me that he will start next Monday.
	[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
May 18. Misc. Cod. No. 63. Venetian Archives.	389. MARC' ANTONIO PADAVIN, Venetian Secretary in Germany, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	Hermestain, who was to have left for Rome last Sunday, has stayed on, because of lack of money. He is to impress his Holiness with this necessity, for the sake of religion, of joining in a league with the house of Austria and inducing the other princes of Italy to enter as France and your Serenity are uniting with England against the Empire, a thing which they firmly believe here.
	They propose to send three regiments of foot and three of horse to the empire to be sent where they may be needed either on the French frontiers, or to join the Spanish forces in the defence of Flanders, where they expect the English to land, if they start this year, though it is not thought that they can do much. In speaking of the king's declaration about recovering the Palatinate Verda remarked, If that monarch declares war, as we cannot doubt, and leaves the control to Parliament, he will be driven from his kingdom without further ado (se quella Maestà intraprende la guerra, come non si ha da dubitar, et lasci il Commando al Parlamento senza altro sarà scacciato dal Regno).
	Hyacinth, the Capuchin friar, is being sent by the Infanta to all the electors to ask for help, and from here they have advised her to defend her coasts well, as they think the English will make their first attack there, while on their side they ought to make an attempt on Ireland. (fn. 4)
	Vienna, the 18th May, 1624.
	[Italian; copy.]
May 19. Senato, Secreta. Deliberazioni. Roma. Venetian Archives.	390. To the Ambassador in France, and the like to the other Courts.
	Matters relating to Rome or her ministers must not be inserted in the general letters. The same also will apply for the present to the Grisons. The grave circumstances of the time demand great circumspection in our ministers, as is shown by the frequent opening of letters directed to us, and so we order you to put into cipher all particulars which you consider cannot be seen without our disadvantage. You will also put in separate letters the payments to captains serving us and the conditions of their service. These provisions shall be inserted in instructions in the future.
	Ayes, 149.	Noes, 0.	Neutral, 3.
	[Italian.]
May 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Spagna. Venetian Archives.	391. ALVISE CORNER, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	A courier arrived from England and it was reported that he brought the renewal of negotiations. This proved delusory because the ambassador has presented a paper breaking off the marriage. (fn. 5) Although the way it was done seemed ambiguous and equivocal yet everyone believes it means a total repudiation of what was arranged. Some members of the Council do not put an unfavourable interpretation upon some of the phrases, especially where that king excuses himself by saying that he must satisfy his subjects, as they gather that even if the marriage does not take place the king will preserve his peaceful and friendly disposition towards the Catholic, though he may break with the emperor, especially as the paper suggests that he feels sure they will not hinder the recovery of the Palatinate here.
	But most of the ministers foresee that a rupture will follow soon and the English will be supported by several powers. When I called to congratulate the Count of Lemos on his admission to the Council, he said he observed great mistrust existed against your Serenity owing to your supposed incitement of others against his Majesty, but he did not believe it.
	The count said, We are rather inclined to break off all friendly relations with England than otherwise, as although that king can help his son-in-law, as I admit he ought, without declaring himself our enemy, and we do the like in helping the emperor, yet this course involves very great difficulties which war would resolve. In my opinion the most serene republic ought not to join our adversaries and will not, but will preserve her habitual neutrality, especially if she sees that we keep nothing of the Palatine's, but only look to the interests of religion in the manner of reinstating him.
	The count tried to convince me of his sincerity, but I would not be sure, as he is a very astute man. I replied cautiously, assuring him of the republic's desire for the peace and liberty of Italy.
	They have not made up their minds what answer to make to the paper from England. The majority favour suavity and avoiding the creation of more feeling. Thus Gondomar remarked to a friend that they might even promise the prompt restitution of the Palatinate.
	Madrid, the 20th May, 1624.
	[Italian.]
May 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Savoia. Venetian Archives.	392. LORENZO PARUTA, Venetian Ambassador in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	I saw the duke on Friday, and after a short conference he sent word to Bethune that he was awaiting him with the Ambassador Marini. In the interval he told me that he had news from France to tell me, sent him by the Marquis of Caluz in letters of the 6th inst. It amounted to this, that Cardinal Richelieu had been appointed chief of the Privy Council and the Marquis of la Vieuville was losing influence. The Spaniards had made fresh proposals for a marriage between Don Carlos, Infant of Spain, and Madame of France, giving the Infant Flanders, and apparently the Queen Mother inclines strongly to this. The duke said he thought at first that the change of ministers would benefit our affairs, but now he feared a further change which would spoil all good decisions. The king lets his Council manage everything and attends to nothing but hunting and his pleasures.
	Turin, the 20th May, 1624.
	[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
May 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Savoia. Venetian Archives.	393. LORENZO PARUTA, Venetian Ambassador in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	After the conversation with the French ambassadors about the Grisons the duke drew a letter from his pocket from the Count of Mansfeld, telling of his arrival in England, his welcome by the Prince and Buckingham and expressing his intention to induce the king there to persist in his recent good resolutions and bring him into the league. He ends by asking for the duke's commands. At this point the duke turned to me and said that the republic ought to pay the count a small sum.
	Turin, the 20th May, 1624.
	[Italian.]
May 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Signori Stati. Venetian Archives.	394. MARC ANTONIO MORESINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	The ambassadors extraordinary of the States in France have sent their secretary here, since whose arrival numerous secret meetings have been held. So far as I can gather they have discussed the best means of inducing him to help them, and they would do anything except pledge their towns. They are determined they will not be dependent upon either France or England, and will sacrifice their lives and goods before they surrender the liberty which they have won. They complain bitterly that the Kings of France and England amuse them with promises and polite words, but in the end give them nothing. I think the secretary will be sent back to-morrow; they will subscribe to anything because the need is urgent and grows worse while the hopes from England diminish, but I do not believe they will pledge any fortresses to the French.
	Father Hyacinth recently sent a letter to the Prince of Portugal here urging him to induce the Palatine to come to an arrangement with Bavaria. It is a long letter containing the same things I have reported before. The other friar Rota has gone to Rome to inform his Holiness of these negotiations. What astonishes me most about the letter is that the friar goes so far as to say that if the Palatine will not consent to let his children become Catholics, his affairs will never be righted, and the pope, the emperor and Bavaria will never consent to restore an inch of land to him. The Palatine has gone to Cologne to confer with the archbishop.
	The Hague, the 20th May, 1624.
	[Italian; deciphered.]
May 20. Senato, Secreta. Dispacci, Signori Stati. Venetian Archives.	395. MARC ANTONIO MORESINI, Venetian Ambassador in the Netherlands, to the DOGE and SENATE.
	Letters from Amsterdam of the 15th inst. bring word that a passenger who arrived on an English ship from the Indies reported that the second fleet of these States was on the coast of Brazil and had taken possession of that island again with Angola.
	To-morrow the Prince of Orange is leaving for Breda with the queen, her husband, Prince Henry and all the Court. It is merely a pleasure trip for the sake of the princess. The ambassadors are also invited and will go.
	The Hague, the 20th May, 1624.
	[Italian.]