Spain: May 1533, 26-31 | British History Online

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 2, 1531-1533. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1882.

Citation:

'Spain: May 1533, 26-31', in Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 2, 1531-1533, ed. Pascual de Gayangos( London, 1882), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/spain/vol4/no2/pp687-703 [accessed 27 November 2024].

May 1533, 26-31



26 May.	1076. Eustace Chapuys to the Same.
K. u. K. Haus- Hof-u-StaatsArch. Wien.Rep.P.Fasc., c.228, No. 32.	(Cipher:) The day before yesterday Your Majesty's letters of the 6th inst. came to hand. Since that date several despatches of mine must have reached their destination, through which Your Majesty will be able to judge whether according to orders and instructions received I have or not fulfilled the particular duties of my charge which in this particular affair of the divorce were "not to make matters worse than they are, not to threaten with war, nor in any way imply that there might be a rupture in the friendship and good intelligence between the two countries." Your Majesty must know by this time how faithfully I have followed the said instructions, and that whenever the King himself, or the members of his Privy Council inquired from me whether I thought Your Majesty would declare war on this account, I have always begged and entreated him and the rest not to speak to me of such things, for in the first place I thought them incapable of giving Your Majesty any cause or occasion for war, much less of provoking and declaring it to you and to your brother, the king of the Romans, for many reasons and considerations which I alleged at the time, and which would take me too much time to relate here. Among other arguments of which I made use was this: since the King himself has from the very beginning put his case in a judicial form, there is no question of war, but on the contrary a hope that though he may have taken another wife he will not on that account oppose and resist the sentence of the Holy Apostolic See. For if the King, I said, has dissolved his first marriage, bound by bonds stronger than adamant, (fn. n1) he can very easily break through this second one, which has not the same firmness and solidity, just as a certain king of France once did, who having divorced his wife, a princess of Denmark, took her back again afterwards.
	With this and other like reasoning have I always met the bellicose interrogatories and allusions of these people, always taking care to impress them with the idea that Your Majesty could not do less than prosecute the trial of this divorce case, not so much out of consideration for this king and kingdom as out of regard for the Queen.
	As to Your Majesty's commands for me to exhort and persuade the Queen to remain in England notwithstanding any bad treatment she may be subjected to, that has already been done and achieved as effectually as possible, and unless the King has her forcibly sent out of this kingdom—which he would hardly dare to do—there is no danger of her voluntarily quitting this country; for besides the many wise reasons against such a measure, specified in Your Majesty's letters to me, the Queen herself thinks that were she to leave this country, she would sin against Law and against the King, whom she considers, and will as long as she lives consider, as her lawful lord and husband. Indeed, however ill-treated, she has always shewn him the same affection, and even now she has never made use of angry or irritating words, much less since she knows Your Majesty's wishes in this respect. (fn. n2)
	The King, perceiving that notwithstanding the prohibition he issued some time ago against speaking about his second marriage, people went on talking all the same about it, has had a proclamation made that whoever will denounce such talkers and slanderers will receive a reward in money; (fn. n3) and, moreover, for fear of producing rebellion among his subjects has ordered that no one, whether clergyman or layman, shall dare preach without the licence of the bishop of London (Stokesley), who being one of the chief promoters of this divorce, naturally instructs them as to what they are to say (les embouche a plaisir). In which proclamation and other means employed to repress the popular feeling Your Majesty will find the explanation of the King's perplexity. Indeed his own silversmith and jeweller, who is also that of Lady Anne, said the other day to one of his customers—a very worthy and creditable man, who related it to me—that the King was exceedingly angry at some English merchants having gone to Flanders to bring back their merchandise, for that, he said, was equivalent to prognosticating and announcing war, and instilling suspicion and jealousy into the minds of the people much before there was any occasion and before the princes had thought of it themselves.
	About eight days ago a gentleman arrived in this city sent by the king of France for the sole purpose of hastening the departure of the duke of Norfolk, who immediately after the arrival of the Frenchman began to make preparations for the journey, and sent on his train and servants, he himself having left this very morning. (fn. n4)
	I fully expected that the Duke would have come to this city that we might confer together, and that I might bid him adieu, but he was in such a haste and so pressed for time and with business that scarcely anyone could approach and speak to him. For this reason, and likewise not to appear as if I felt extremely curious about his sudden departure, or otherwise entertained fears about it, I refrained from going in person to say good bye to him, but sent one of my secretaries to do that and whatever else was required in my name. Though the Duke, as I say, was on the eve of departure, and very much engaged, he nevertheless received my man, and gave him all manner of courteous messages and commendations to me, as well as polite offers, the better to impress which on the man's memory he recalled him twice to his presence and repeated them over and over again, (fn. n5) adding that he was going to meet the Pope and the king of France at Nice, where, he said, some good things might be discussed, thereby meaning no doubt that Your Majesty might be persuaded through the above-mentioned means to ratify and forgive this second marriage of the King, so that union and friendship might subsist between Your Majesty and him. But, in my opinion, if such be their object these people had better not tell the Pope or the king of France anything about it; neither of whom I am sure would be very active in promoting such a plan if they thought that through the ratification or rather toleration of this second marriage the union and friendship between the Empire and this country was likely to be strengthened. The Pope's ostensible objects in this meeting are, as I hear: the war against the Turk, the convocation of a General Council, and the extirpation of the Lutheran sect. Please God that there be nothing further! The Papal Nuncio here told me more than two months ago that he had seen letters from merchants about a project of marriage between His Holiness' niece and the duke of Orleans, and that the former was to have as dower the duchy of Milan, the present duke [Francesco Sforza] getting by way of compensation that of Bourbon[nais], in France, and besides that the hand of the sister of the sieur d'Alebrecht (Labret). I cannot say whence the Nuncio drew this information, for which he gave me very plausible reasons at the time; but as the news seemed to me then, as it does now, strangely improbable and without foundation, I have avoided communicating it until now that the very scrupulous care displayed about the meeting itself, together with its unprecedented character have induced me to report thereon.
	There is a talk here of a truce with the Scots, and it is confidently expected that peace will ensure after that. The bishop of Durem (Durham) was to have gone to Scotland for the purpose, but as yet there are no signs of his departure.
	(Cipher:) I have not failed to warn the queen [dowager] of Hungary [Mary] of the probability of peace being concluded between this country and Scotland, that she may in the event of it safeguard the interests of Your Majesty's subjects as regards fishing (tenir main a leur pescherie). And I have no doubt that the said Queen in her great wisdom and vigilance will do all that is proper and convenient for the Imperial service. For although a peace be concluded, as I say, between the two countries, still should the Pope feel inclined to proceed to the sentence and consequent measures against this kingdom—without which Your Majesty cannot well undertake anything—the king of Scotland could without infringing treaties or breaking promises, be the instrument and executor through whom the affairs of this country might be settled; (fn. n6) and if Your Majesty for fear of greater publicity and scandal, or from not choosing to kindle too fierce a fire in Christendom, declined openly and alone to undertake this enterprize, then very probably, the said king of Scotland being well provided with money by the Pope—whom this affair principally concerns, as well as by Your Imperial Majesty, all intercourse of trade being stopped in virtue of the Papal commands—the Irish, who call themselves the subjects of the Holy Apostolic See, would come in and help with all their might. It is true that if such vigorous measures could be avoided it would be far better for all parties; yet, in my opinion, there is no hope of the evil being alleviated by mild remedies, and even these people, who would have to suffer much, should the affair come to such an extremity, are wishing you to send a fleet and an army to these parts. It is for Your Majesty with your innate prudence, great wisdom and experience, as well as the help of that Divine inspiration—which has never abandoned you in the most critical times, and made you so prosperous in all your undertakings—to decide what is to be done in this case for God's best service, and the welfare of Christendom at large.—London, 26th May 1533.
	Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
	Addressed: "To the Emperor."
	Indorsed: "From the ambassador in England. Received the 11th June."
	French. Holograph entirely in cipher. pp. 6.
29 May.	1077. The Same to the Same.
K. u. K. Haus- Hof-u.-Staats Arch. Wien. Rep.P.Fasc., c. 228, No. 33.	The duke of Norfolk, who was to have left on the 26th, the date of my last despatch, has by the King's commands remained two days longer in town for no other purpose, as I imagine, than to give him time to treat with me of the matters, whereof I will hereafter inform Your Majesty. Accordingly, the day before yesterday the Duke sent a gentleman of his (ung homme de bien) to visit me with all sorts of gracious messages, begging me to send him immediately the most confidential and discreet secretary I had in this embassy, that he might communicate to him some important affairs (quelques bons affaires). And I, considering that my personal attendance on the Duke would be more profitable and useful than that of my secretary, went forthwith to the Duke's hotel, though secretly and in disguise (en habit couvert et secret), owing to the very same reasons stated in my last despatch, which, as I informed Your Majesty, had prevented my going to bid him adieu when he thought of departing. (fn. n7)
	After courteously thanking me for the great honour he said I did him in calling, and the trouble I had taken, the Duke began to say that he was about to take his departure to attend the meeting of two of the greatest princes in Christendom, where, had Your Majesty also been present, he was sure that owing to your kindness, virtue, prudence, and benignity (humanite) the most perfect, sincere, lasting, general and praiseworthy peace, union, and amity that ever was in Christendom, nay, in the whole world, might have been concluded. Your Majesty, the Duke remarked, had the key of it in your own hands, and on you depended entirely the making of that universal peace. But since all hope of your personal attendance must for the present be abandoned, it would be, continued the Duke, highly beneficial to the parties if you would send thither experienced ministers well inclined to the good settlement of affairs, and to the increase of that union and amity that we all wish for. Then as a piece of courtly flattery (pour se gaudir de moy), and as a reward perhaps for the trouble I had taken in coming down to him, or as the common saying goes, to "offer a candle to the Devil," the Duke added: that nothing would give him so much satisfaction as to hear that I was one of the ministers appointed thereto, and that the Papal Nuncio residing at this court (for much better reason no doubt) might be His Holiness' representative.
	My answer was that Your Majesty always had done and would do in future everything in your power for the union and peace of Christendom, as could easily be proved by the almost intolerable fatigues and incredible expenses you had sustained in promoting the same. That Your Majesty wished for nothing so ardently as to preserve and increase your friendship with the King, his master as was evident and patent to every one, and that since it seemed as if the union of Christendom, to which he (the Duke) alluded, depended exclusively on the Queen's matrimonial cause, and on this accursed new marriage of the King, he (the Duke) was not justified in saying that Your Majesty had the key in your hands; on the contrary, the whole gist lay in the King's consenting (as reason prescribed) to the matrimonial cause being tried and sentenced by authentic and impartial judges, such as the Pope and his cardinals would be. For this reason he (the Duke) ought on the contrary to wish that the King, his master, should be present at the interview, in order that then and there he might have been persuaded to allow the said judgment (vuydange) to take place, as above stated, that being the only and exclusive thing which Your Majesty demanded, which could not be in justice refused to the meanest creature in this world, much less to so great a prince as you are.
	With regard to Your Majesty's ministers residing at the Papal court, and at that of the Most Christian king of France, after praising their merits, wisdom, and individual qualities, I assured the Duke that they were all rightly inclined (avoient bonne inclination). The Duke (Cipher:) owned that he had a good opinion of them and trusted they would act judiciously; yet he requested me to write to them individually, and exhort them to be tractable and conciliatory and do good office at the said interview, persisting still in his wish that Your Majesty should send thither a good reinforcement of ambassadors, all people of rank and authority, since the King, his master, was dispatching so numerous an embassy, and one so well qualified in this kingdom. "It would be advisable (continued the Duke) that among the Imperial ministers there should be one at least well acquainted with the most important affairs and relations of this kingdom with those of the Emperor."
	After a good deal of conversation on this point the Duke and I came to the conclusion that no fitter person could be chosen for the purpose than Monseigneur de Praët, not only on account of his authority, but likewise for his experience of affairs and great dexterity in negotiating, he (the Duke) begging me to recommend him as if the idea had originated with myself; and upon my observing to him that I doubted whether Your Majesty, not having been previously invited by His Holiness and the Most Christian King would like to increase the number of his ambassadors at the said interview, and how astonished I was at his having been so long in announcing such a wish to me, he replied that he thought His Holiness had fully communicated his plans to Your Majesty, without whose consent he would hardly have dared to hold the interview. As to his (the Duke) not having apprized me sooner of his plans, the cause was that the king of France had written to his master, requesting that the whole matter should be kept a secret, not to be revealed to anyone except to him (the Duke) and to one other person. That was about three months ago; since then the king of France had written many a time about it with greater insistance, begging that an ambassador should be appointed from this country to assist at the conferences, "which charge (added the Duke) I have accepted, though I must say I would willingly give one of my fingers to get rid of it."
	(Common writing:) After this the Duke went on to say that the King, his master, had taken in very good part the advice I had given to Cremuel (Cromwell), to avoid all occasions of offence against Your Majesty. He had been grieved to hear that the Queen's arms had been removed from her barge, and rather ignominiously torn off and cut to pieces. He had severely reprimanded that Lady's chamberlain, not only for having caused the said arms to be removed, but for having appropriated the said barge, lately belonging to the Queen, when there were in the river many others equally fit for the Lady's service. (fn. n8)
	I failed not to praise the King's behaviour in this particular instance, saying to the Duke that there was no need of an excuse, for what belonged to the Queen was by right the King's own. The King's resolution in this case made me hope that every regard would be had to the Queen and to the Princess, her daughter, and that both would be honourably treated, for, as I had said to Cromwell, the shade of scruple which the King felt in his conscience, and which, as he said, was the sole cause of separation from his legitimate queen, could not possibly be made to extend to the treatment of her and her daughter. Should this prove unworthy in future, the King, besides bringing on himself the wrath of God, would incur the blame of all the World, besides inflicting a great offence on Your Majesty. Hearing which, the Duke praised the Queen and the Princess, extolling their virtues and good qualities, so much so that it would have been impossible for me to speak of them in higher terms, adding that he was sure Your Majesty loved already the Princess, without having seen her, and would in future love her still more. (fn. n9) Among other virtues of the Queen, the Duke pointed out to me as a most prominent one her great modesty, prudence, and forbearance, not only during these last disagreeable differences, but likewise on former occasions, the King having been at all times very much given to amorous intrigues. (fn. n10) With regard to the treatment she would experience, the Duke said he was sure the King would never diminish the dowry which had been assigned to her in prince Arthur's time, amounting, as he said, to 24,000 ducats every year, more than sufficient, added the Duke, for the estate of a dowager princess, (fn. n11) if she will only reduce her expenses within proper limits. To this I replied that knowing as I did the King's benignity and generosity, I did not consider him capable of curtailng the Queen's former allowance, were it for no other reason than her virtues arid the services she had rendered him in former times, and I most earnestly entreated him to ensure that no reduction of her income should be effected. Upon which the Duke took his most solemn oath to me that he would willingly have lost 10,000 crs. Rather than not hear me speak about the treatment of the Queen and Princess in the manner I had done, for had I not by my overtures on the subject afforded him an opportunity to declare his sentiments, all the gold in the world would not have been sufficient to induce him to speak first. Now that the subject had been broached, and my wishes explained, the matter might be fairly discussed and amicably settled to the end, (fn. n12) and he would take care that Your Majesty should have no new ground of complaint, as I had hinted to the said Cromwell.
	The King, said the Duke, had likewise taken in good part my advice that a fitting letter should be addressed to Your Majesty in excuse or justification of his conduct in the affair. I protested to the Duke, as I had formerly done to Cromwell, that what I had said and advised in this matter was said less in my capacity of Imperial ambassador having Your Majesty's especial powers for the matrimonial cause, than as a good-wisher of his king and a friend of peace; and that if the letter which his master purposed writing to you did not produce the desired effect, that which the King expected, I was not to be made responsible for it, and taunted as having been the instigator of the step, as I was once by the King himself on the occasion of the earl of Wiltshire's journey [to Bologna]. The Duke replied that there was no fear of that now, and that he begged me to forward the King's letter to Your Majesty's ambassador [at Rome], which letter, he said, would be sent next day to me enclosed in a packet to the said ambassador. I agreed to this, though I must state that up to the present hour I have received no letters either from the King or from him.
	Not choosing to remain to dinner, as I had been very much pressed to do by the Duke, I took leave of him and returned to my lodgings with the full intention of dispatching one of my own clerks to him the same evening, which I did. By whom, and soon after by Brian Tuke himself, the Duke sent me word to say that he had fully intended to call on me next morning, but that as his departure was to take place almost immediately, the King kept him continually engaged and by his side, that he might the better instruct him as to the duties of his charge. Should I kindly excuse him and take the trouble of calling again at his office he had no doubt we might hit upon some good measure (bonne œuvre), or at least lay the foundation for it in the future.
	Accordingly, next morning, at the appointed hour, I went secretly to his cabinet (sa chambre), when he began again to talk about the above-mentioned personages, begging me to write about them, and at the same time asking whether it was true that Your Majesty had already sent them. "If so," he said, "I consider there is a very good chance of a good peace and alliance being concluded." "No excuses, he said, can be made as to the shortness of the time, for your letters may easily reach the Emperor in a fortnight, and as the assembly is not to begin until the 5th of July, the Imperial commissioners leaving Barcelona by sea or by land might be in time for it, and arrive almost as soon as myself." He, therefore, begged me to write as soon as possible, and though I again reproduced the same arguments as on a former occasion, he begged and entreated me to take care that the King's letters to his ambassador [at Your Majesty's Court], which, he said, would be sent to me almost immediately, should be forwarded at the same time as my own despatch.
	With regard to the Queen's treatment the Duke assured me that the King was not bound by the statutes and laws of this kingdom to give the Queen more than the dower she had after prince Arthur's death, and that in virtue of an act of this last Parliament, and in consequence of the Queen not choosing to obey (obptemperer), the King might very well treat her with rigour, and diminish that very dower to which she is entitled. Yet in consideration of the reasons I had brought before him the day before, and others no less weighty, the King would make honourable provision for the Queen, though perhaps not so large and on so regal a scale as when she was a queen, unless she acquiesced in the sentence of divorce pronounced by the archbishop of Canterbury. (fn. n13) He imagined, the Duke went on to say, that I enjoyed so much credit with the Queen, and had so much industry and talent that I could easily persuade her to that. If I did I should acquire inestimable glory, and be the cause of a great boon not only to this kingdom of England but to the whole of Christendom, which, owing to this cause and to no other, is now divided and troubled (desunic et desordonnee). This, he said, would be by far a better way of settling the present matter, for should Your Majesty on that account be tempted to make war, it would be a great disaster for Christendom, which after so many troubles is anxious for repose. One thing, he added, was to be considered that whoever assailed England must have wings or else come by sea; even if a landing were effected the English would not be easily conquered. (fn. n14) As to try and do them harm or make war by sea that was more difficult than people imagined; and he did not hesitate to say that sure as they were of the alliance of France the English were not afraid of any other power. The better to prove his assertion the Duke went on to say that should Your Majesty under take to make war upon England you had better look to the defence of your own dominions from his (the King's) friends and allies who, he remarked, were neither few nor insignificant, since besides the most Christian king of France, who was the constant friend (invariablemant) of England, and as faithful an ally as could possibly be wished for, the King had also at his pleasure and command the king of Scotland (James), who after the one year's truce concluded between the two countries desired nothing short of a durable peace and alliance. The Duke added that he had no hesitation to say and affirm that before ten months were over the said king of Scotland would personally come here [to London] when a marriage between him and a daughter of king Francis would be effected. Besides these, the Duke went on to say, we count upon the friendship and co-operation of several German princes; and "as to Italy," he said, your master, the Emperor, must not rely too much on it, for the affairs in that country are not so comfortable as he might desire.
	"I have no doubt (continued the Duke) that out of pride and regard for what they consider to be their honour, as likewise for the upholding of their military reputation, and the glory of their many past victories, the Spaniards will stimulate the Emperor to declare war against us, (fn. n15) yet I hope that his great prudence and wisdom, of which he is known to possess a greater share than any other prince in the world, his great kindness and benevolence (humanite), and the consideration of the old friendship existing not only between him and my master, but also between the subjects of the two crowns, as well as of the good services which this country has rendered him and his predecessors, will not on this occasion forsake him, and cause him to listen to the advice of those who would persuade him to an invasion; nay, that he will be able to resist the execrable arrogance of his Spaniards, who for want of pay have lately risen in mutiny"
	To this last remark of the Duke my answer was that I knew nothing about the mutiny he spoke of, and that even if the report was true it could be of no consequence in the present case for that was a sort of thing to which the best soldiers (soudards) in the world had always been prone, even those of Alexander the Great, who did nothing else but mutiny during that conqueror's military career. Respecting the other point in the Duke's speech, namely, the war between the two countries, though there might have been in my opinion plenty to say and much to refute, as likewise on the Queen's supposed wrong about which he (the Duke) had spoken so much, I refrained from offering any observations, considering that my visit to him was rather for the purpose of hearing what he himself had to say than making suggestions of my own, and also to make him understand that I entirely disregarded all his threatening language. I, therefore, made as short a reply as I could consistently with my duty, and limited myself to saying ironically that Your Majesty would certainly be much obliged to those who, whilst recounting the miseries of war, always to be deprecated, shewed greater regard for you than for themselves.
	All the world (I continued) knew Your Majesty to be naturally inclined to peace, and consequently unwilling to wage war even against those to whom you were under no obligations, unless actually compelled to it, and for very just reasons. Under such circumstances Your Majesty had, with the help of God, in whom you entirely trusted, conducted your affairs in such a manner that victory had almost invariably crowned your efforts, for in my opinion there was no monarch in Christendom more able to procure everywhere the alliances and the means required for military undertakings.
	This last observation of mine was thus vaguely expressed that I might give the Duke something to think of and turn over in his mind (fn. n16) and I ended by begging him to drop altogether the subject of the war, and how and where it could be made, but merely to think of removing all causes and occasions for it, which, I said, would certainly never come from Your Majesty's side.
	On the subject of the Queen I would offer no observations at the time, as I saw that all my reasoning would be useless; but as to my trying to persuade her, as the Duke had recommended, to acquiesce in the sentence of divorce pronounced by the archbishop of Canterbury, that I said was out of the question. I had not with her the credit which he (the Duke) supposed, and to speak frankly and without dissimulation, even if I had I would not for all the gold in the world under take such a task without the express commands of Your Majesty. Yet, though I was perfectly sure that you would never consent to anything in this case save what justice and right demanded, I would to please the King write home all that he (the Duke) had told me on the subject, and if by chance—which I did not expect—Your Majesty ordered me to undertake the negotiation and speak to the Queen there-upon I would willingly shew the King how desirous I was of doing him pleasure and working for the preservation of the mutual friendship. Hearing which the duke of Norfolk swore on the faith he owed to God that I had spoken like an honourable man, and that he would no longer press me on the subject, begging me to do my best in this as well as in all other matters to prevent a rupture.
	Your Majesty may see from the above to what extremity these people are now reduced when they thus address themselves to me, whom they know to be, as the King himself said upon one occasion to me, and I have had the honour to write in one of my despatches, one of the Queen's principal supporters and advocates. From whence I conclude either that they are in great consternation just now, or that they take me for a fool, unless I have succeeded completely in calming their fears and blinding them, since in order to imitate their foul game I have somewhat dissembled with the Duke respecting the treatment of the said ladies, in obedience to your late orders and instructions.
	The Duke's conversation is not written in cipher owing to his having expressed a wish that it should be verbally transmitted to Your Majesty, as I have done. Had he spoken to me as from himself, and not in the King's name, and with the approval of the Privy Council, I should have attached more credit to his words respecting the friendships and alliances at which he hinted during the conference, for the Duke after all is not a good dissembler or liar (inventeur). To say nothing of the rest of the princes upon whose alliance and co-operation these people seem to count, I must say that whatever trust and reliance they may place in their neighbours, the Scots, it is a well known fact here that since the time at which the truce was concluded they have captured several English merchant vessels, and that the last prize they made, only ten days ago, was of seven ships richly laden with merchandize.
	To my remark that the King at the next interview of the Pope and king of France would be requested to go back to the Queen, the Duke resolutely replied: "That the most urgent solicitations would be of no avail in that respect, for even should the Pope, the king of France, and the rest of the world entreat him to take her back he would never consent to it: such were the scrupulous feelings of his conscience on that score, and his despair of his ever getting male succession with her. The Pope might well pronounce sentence if he chose; he, the King, cared not for it, nor for his censures. True, the Duke remarked, that will cause us some trouble and inconvenience, but that is of no consequence. If Spain and Flanders refuse to trade with us the loss will be equal on both sides. We shall send part of our goods to Flanders and the rest to Calais, where the Emperor's subjects must come at much greater trouble and expense to buy our wools, with which they cannot dispense." To this I deigned (fn. n17) no reply, but simply smiled, and that was all.
	Shortly after the Duke began to excuse himself and say that he had not been either the originator or promoter of this second marriage, but, on the contrary, had always been opposed to it, and tried to dissuade the King therefrom. Had it not been for him and for the father of the Lady, who feigned to be attacked by frenzy to have the better means of opposing it, the marriage would have been secretly contracted a year ago; and for this opposition (the Duke observed) the Lady had been exceedingly indignant with the one and the other. (fn. n18) In confirmation of which statement made by the Duke I can say that I have heard from a very good source, and from the lips of a person who was present [at the marriage], that eight days ago as the Lady [Anne] happened to take a piece [of cloth] to add to her dress—as ladies in a family-way are wont to do in this country, when they find their robes get too tight—her father said to her that she ought to take away the piece and thank God for the state in which she found herself, and that she (the Lady), instead of thanksgiving, replied in the presence of the dukes of Norfolk and Suffolk, and of the Treasurer of the Household (Fitzwilliam), that she was in better plight than he would have wished her to be. (fn. n19)
	About to take leave and return to my hotel, the Duke made me all manner of gracious offers both of his person and fortune, and again entrusted to me the speedy transmission of the enclosed packet, as well as his prayer and humble request that Your Majesty will be pleased to send to the conferences of Niza, one or more personages, as above; especially was I to recommend him to Your Imperial Majesty for whom (the Duke says) after the King, his master, he feels more regard and respect than for any other prince in Christendom. This he most emphatically repeated to me two or three times in the presence of all the Privy Councillors there present. The conference at an end I returned home (fn. n20) without taking leave of the Privy Councillors.
	Two hours after my leaving him the Duke started on his journey, so that neither he nor his suite, in whose number is the Lady's brother, would wait to witness the pageant of the coronation, (fn. n21) for they left the day before. This morning the Lady came from Greenwich to the Tower of London accompanied by several prelates and lords, and innumerable other people, as is customary with the queens of this country, and it must be observed that whatever sorrow and annoyance the King may have experienced, as the duke of Norfolk gave me to understand, at the seizure of the Queen's own barge, the Lady has unscrupulously made use of it at this coronation of hers, and appropriated it for her own use. May God permit that she may henceforwards be contented with possessing the barge, the jewels, and the husband of the Queen, without attempting also, as I have remarked in my preceding despatches, the life of the Queen and Princess! (fn. n22)
	The coronation pageant was all that could be desired, and went off very well, as to the number of the spectators, which was very considerable, but all looked so sad and dismal that the ceremony seemed to be a funeral (fn. n23) rather than a pageant (triumphe) for I am told that the indignation of the English against their king is daily increasing, as well as the hope that Your Majesty will one of these days apply a remedy to this state of things.
	Next Saturday the Lady [Anne] will traverse the whole of London, and go to the King's palace [at Bridewell], and hence, on Sunday, to Uuesmaytre (Westminster), where the solemnity of the coronation is to take place.—London, 29th May 1533.
	Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
	Addressed: "To the Emperor."
	Indorsed: "From the ambassador in London. Received the last day of June."
	French. Holograph. pp. 9.
29 May.	1078. Count of Cifuentes of the Same.
S. E. L. 860, f. 3. B.M. Add. 28,585, f. 260.	On the 22nd inst. there was a Congregation, and the answer of the king of France to the business of the conferences was read to the cardinals, as well as cardinal Torno's (Francois de Tournon) address on the occasion.
	Having received reliable information from certain quarters as to His Holiness having made up his mind with regard to the interview, he (Sylva) spoke to the cardinals about this, and tried all he could to prevent it.
	His Holiness read to him [Sylva] the answer of the king of France, as well as the letter of credence sent to cardinal Tournon. The substance of which is that the king of France out of affection for His Holiness, and being in duty bound, as he is, to foster the welfare and peace of Christendom, is very desirous of an interview wherein the complete pacification of the Christian world, and especially of Italy, may for ever be settled in a definitive manner. This the King had not the least doubt could easily be accomplished, and he left entirely to His Holiness the choice of time and place. Respecting the Council, the King says that he has friends in Germany for whom it might perhaps be reckoned an advantage, inasmuch as the affairs of Luther might be settled thereat. As to the Turk, the expediency of waging war against him once settled and agreed upon, the welfare of the Christian commonwealth would be attended to as far as he himself was concerned. Should he come down, the means of defence ought to be preconcerted, &c.
	To obviate the inconveniences of last year His Holiness might from this time decide on a line of conduct for the Christian princes, which line he of France would undertake to follow.
	Besides this it appears that the Cardinal in his address said that his master, the king of France, would endeavour to settle the English cause, and even explained to the Pope in detail the manner in which he intended to proceed to attain that object.
	As soon as His Holiness, and his master, the king of France, met, the latter (he said) would beg for a suspension of the proceedings against the king of England. His Holiness would no doubt reply that his conduct was so scandalous and so irreverent that he could not help making the declaration of his guilt, and depriving him of his kingdom. The King then would transmit to his brother of England this answer from the Pope telling him at the same time that he must know that once excommunicated by His Holiness all his friends and abetors would be equally so. And, therefore, that although he had sworn friendship to him, and promised to stand by him in all cases, this was not to be understood as holding good against the Church. There can be no doubt (added Tournon) that when the king of England sees himself deserted by his brother of France he will have recourse to a plan designed by him, which is that if His Holiness could be persuaded to fix a place secure and removed from suspicion where the case might be judged and determined, he (the king of England) would appear there to allege his rights, and in the meantime would separate from Anne, and cause the Queen to return to his Palace, and live under the same roof as before, (fn. n24) though he would not share her bed.
	To the above statement (the ambassador says) His Holiness replied that the King's answer had not been what he expected it to be; it was not more explicit than on a former occasion. The means which he proposed for putting an end to the English cause were far from being expedient he said, but on the contrary slow and subject to eventualities, nay, too injurious and dishonourable for the Queen to accept. I insisted on my former idea, namely, that if the French desired the interview it was only for their own advantage and political ends. The Pope answered: "And yet the means suggested by cardinal Tournon have already been discussed with your Emperor, who did not entirely disapprove of them;" which remark, besides others equally cunning, makes me suspect that this proposition of the Cardinal has been made with the consent and knowledge of the Cardinal has been made with the consent and knowledge of the king of England.
	About this time Your Majesty's answer about the interview arrived, and I failed not to communicate the same to the cardinal de Barry (Bari). Having agreed together before it came to hand that Your Majesty's letter to His Holiness should be a little sharp (agra), I asked the Cardinal whether he thought that it ought to be delivered into the Pope's hands just as it came, or whether it would be better not to say that they had received it and wait until they could consult the Emperor's Council. As the Cardinal, however, did not return a categorical answer to my question I decided to deliver the letter such as it was. I did so three days after and failed not on the occasion, as I have done ever since, to beg His Holiness well to consider the case. This step, I am glad to say, has succeeded as far, for the Pope said to me: "You are right, and I intend consulting my cardinals thereupon. We shall hear what the Congregation has to say; at any rate, should they decide that the interview is to take place I will not take my departure until the first rains in August."
	I have since heard that the cardinals met, and decided that His Holiness ought to go, and that whilst Your Majesty's letter to the Pope was being read to the Congregation, almost all the cardinals there present observed that it was couched in such mild and considerate words that it could not possibly give rise to suspicion. Santa Croce then got up and said: "I can see nothing to wonder at, for it does not behove His Holiness to give his reasons for his going or remaining; nor does it suit the Emperor to take any notice of the Pope's actions."
	Jacopo Salviati, to whom I read Your Majesty's answer before I delivered it to the Pope (and I have my reasons to believe he is very proud of this confidence), told me that the king of France was in secret and very close intelligence with the dukes of Bavaria, Sassa (Saxony), and Lorraine, (fn. n25) and that their mutual relations were of such a nature that he feared one of these days some harm might come to Your Majesty's brother, the king of the Romans.
	I have also heard from a very reliable quarter that besides the above-mentioned proposition respecting the interview, the cardinal of Tournon had assured the Pope that the king of France would take to Nice with him his second son (the duke of Orleans). If the Pope brought his niece (Caterina) with him the marriage might be concluded and consummated. If, however, the Pope wished for the marriage to be effected before the interview he (the King) would at once send his son to Parma or Piacenza, if he wished.—Rome, 29th May 1533.
	Signed: "Conde Cifuentes."
	Addressed: "To His Most Sacred, Imperial, and Catholic Majesty the Emperor and King, our Lord."
	Indorsed: "From count de Cifuentes. Abstract of his letters of the 29th May."
	Spanish. Original. pp. 5.