Spain: September 1529, 21-25 | British History Online

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 1, Henry VIII, 1529-1530. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1879.

Citation:

'Spain: September 1529, 21-25', in Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 1, Henry VIII, 1529-1530, ed. Pascual de Gayangos( London, 1879), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/spain/vol4/no1/pp220-252 [accessed 27 November 2024].

September 1529, 21-25



21 Sept.	159. The Emperor to the Marquis of Mantua.
S. E. L. 1,454, f. 103. B. M. Add. 28,579, f. 167.	Appoints him (Federigo Gonzaga) "Ducem et Capitaneum Generalem" of all the cavalry and infantry now coming from Germany.—Piacenza, 21st September .
	Latin. Original draft. p. 1.
21 Sept.	160. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus- Hof-u.-Staats Arch. Wien.Rep.P.Fasc., c. 225, No. 18.	Since my last despatch informing Your Majesty of my arrival in London, as likewise of my sending one of my men with a message to the King to ascertain when it would be his pleasure to grant me an audience, and another to the Queen announcing my arrival, and the object of my mission; also inquiring whether it was possible for me to communicate with her first,—as prescribed in my instructions,—in order to know her wishes and do her will, what I (Chapuys) have to report is:
	That the King immediately sent back my messenger with a very gracious letter, in which he expressed great pleasure at my coming, and said he was about to send his first secretary, Dr. Guenich (Hennege), to London, that he might entertain and conduct me to Grafton, where he purposed being about the Day of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross (le jour de Sainte Croix). The Queen, on the other hand, sent a message through her physician (Fernando de Victoria), to say how pleased and comforted she was by my coming; she had felt more joy at the news than she had experienced for a long time; my arrival could not be more opportune, &c. As to waiting on her, as I proposed, the Queen sent to say it was entirely out of the question; it could not be done according to my wish without the King's permission. She would, however, send me her own physician, a very trusty man, through whom she could keep me "au courant des afferes."
	The Queen fulfilled her promise, and accordingly sent me her physician, whom I met as I was leaving the house. Surrounded as I was at the time by officers [from the King's household], who accompanied and escorted me through the streets of this capital, it is a mystery to me how the said physician dared make [in their presence] a summary of what had occurred in the divorce case, the origin and causes of it, &c. With regard to further proceedings (he said), the Queen wished me to consider and calculate the best means of promoting the advocation of the cause to Rome, inasmuch as the King, her husband, as Your Majesty will hear hereafter, opposed it violently. Also to consider whether any of the expedients suggested to overcome the King's obstinacy would serve that purpose. Though the King, she owned, had for the last three or four days put on a better mien than, was his wont, I was not to fail on that account to make him feel as strongly as I could the great interest Your Majesty took in the affair. This I was requested to declare in public whenever I had the opportunity, not forgetting at the same time to apply for the King's permission to wait on her. I was also advised not to spare in my interview with the King, her husband, such flattering and conciliatory words as might, without prejudice to my commission, influence his nature, which is more accessible to persuasion than to threat. (fn. n1) After duly delivering his message as above, the physician, Victoria, left me as late as possible in the evening to avoid observation.
	Three days before my departure [for Grafton] Dr. Guenich (Hennege) called, and said he had received orders from the King, his master, to come to me a little sooner than the appointed time, keep me company here [in London] and help me, if required, to find comfortable quarters, provide post horses, &c. As I had already provided for all these wants I declined the Doctor's services and company. He then asked me what my mission was, observing that I could confide it to him without scruple of any sort, he (Hennege) being a member of the King's Privy Council, and, therefore, sure to hear of it in due time. My answer was: "That is the very reason why I decline complying with your request, for you being, as you say, one of that body (mestier), are sure to get cognizance of the matter soon enough." Upon which the said Hennege smiled and said in a familiar tone: "If I asked the question of your Worship it was merely by way of suggestion (par manniere de devise), and not otherwise; the commission I have from the King, my master, is merely to ask you whether you wish to expound your charge publicly before the Privy Council or privately before the King, and whether you wish to speak in Latin or French." I replied: "That will depend entirely upon the King's pleasure and will. It is for him to decide what language is to be used at our next interview. Should the choice be left to me I should speak French, as being the language most in use, and that which the King himself understands and speaks best. The King, moreover, must be aware that in the words of my commission my statements must be simple (naif) and plain, and such as I am directed by my instructions to make without any rhetorical figures or elegant phrases such as are generally used in public orations, (fn. n2) which, owing to several considerations more or less weighty, and which I needed not put forward, ought to be avoided in the present instance, inasmuch as the close friendship and alliance now existing between Your Majesty and the king of England required no public testimony, nor could the matter now under discussion be improved either way by giving it publicity or courting the popular favour, since everything rested with the King, and was to he an act of his own free will and discretion. Respecting the oration or address, which the King thought I was prepared to make, like other Imperial ambassadors in similar circumstances, it struck me forcibly that His Highness, being so magnanimous a prince, so wise, so prudent, and so reasonable, it would be as absurd in me to deliver in his presence a laudatory oration merely to bring forth facts apparent to common honesty and reason, as it was in that philosopher, who in the presence of Hannibal the Carthagenian, discoursed upon military glory and science. (fn. n3) The King, however, would decide which it was to be, a private or a public audience, as I was quite prepared to do his pleasure.
	Dr. Hennege agreed to this proposition of mine, and as I afterwards learned, the King himself was pleased at my answer.
	The day before the Exaltation of the Cross we started from London, and arrived the same evening at a place three miles distant from where the King was supposed to be. Lodgings had there been prepared for us for the night, the King residing then at a manor so small and confined that half the servants of his household in ordinary had to lodge elsewhere. The day afterwards, however, orders came for the Doctor [Hennege] and me to appear before him at 11 o'clock, We reached the place at nine in the morning, and were received at the gate by Mr. Rosselz (Sir John Russel), comptroller of the royal household (premier sommelier de corps du Roy) who had orders to entertain us at his rooms until the King should come out of church. Mass over, the King came, entered the audience hall, and sent for us. As soon as he saw me from the very end of the hall, a very spacious and long one, where he was conversing apart with some of his Privy Councillors, he came forward and sat in the middle of it in an arm chair, which had been prepared for him, and under a small canopy (dosselet).The King, at my approach, rose from his seat, advanced three or four paces to meet me, and bade me most graciously to come nearer. I did not enter at once into the matter of my commission, as I thought it better to thank him first for sending his secretary to me, and for the offers made in his name. I explained again in as few words as possible my reasons for desiring that the audience should be private instead of public, and repeated almost the same words I had said to Dr. Guenich (Hennege). This I did on purpose, that he might listen with greater attention to what I had to say, as did happen. For having presented Your Majesty's letter he took it in his hand, but did not attempt to open it at the time, believing it, no doubt, to be a mere credential. I then began to expound my commission without omitting any part of my instructions, adding from time to time some little remark of my own, which I considered fit for the purpose. The King, meanwhile, listened with much attention, with open mien and smiling countenance (à visage ouvert et allegre). My address at an end, the King began by welcoming me to his kingdom, and saying: "I could really have wished that the person I sent to visit you had been more suitable (propice); I would have chosen a better one had I had one at hand. I am very glad and happy to see that since God has been pleased to make peace between the Emperor and myself the charge of cementing and preserving that very peace has devolved upon a man of your parts, so wise and so well inclined, for if my own information and that communicated by my ambassadors be correct, I have not the least doubt that you will do your best to preserve the friendship and alliance between your master and myself. The discretion or indiscretion of ambassadors is often the cause of the enmities and quarrels of princes as it is also the cause of their friendships and alliances. As to me, the Emperor will always find me at my post as in past times, and certainly he must own that my friendship has hitherto been of some use to him. Respecting the principal point of your commission (this he said in a low tone of voice, and as graciously as before), I must candidly tell you that I do not see what reason the Emperor has for refusing to send me the brief of dispensation for the marriage between the Queen and myself, when both of us conjointly have applied for it. One might say that great injury had been done to both parties by such refusal, for the Emperor must know that a Papal brief addressed to me and to the Queen, is our joint property, belongs exclusively to us, (fn. n4) and ought to be in our hands, not in those of people whom it does not concern. In case of the Emperor claiming to have an interest in the affair, a faithful transcript might have been sufficient instead of retaining the original itself." The King then went on reproducing the very same arguments once made by his own ambassadors and those of the Queen in Your Majesty's presence, when they went to ask for the brief, though it must be said that he occasionally amplified and coloured them as much as he could, sometimes in Latin, at others in French, saying among other things: "I cannot help thinking, seeing the Emperor's pertinacious refusal to send us the brief of dispensation, that it must be a forgery, made, I have no doubt, without the Emperor's knowledge, for I believe him to be incapable of such an act. I have caused all the register books at Rome to be searched, and in none of them is mention made of such a brief, whereas everyone knows that if such document really emanated from the Holy See there would still remain some record or trace of it. (fn. n5)
	"Besides (continued the King) it is a wonder to me how the Emperor, being like myself a secular prince, and the case being a purely ecclesiastical one, has mixed himself up with such matters, and gone so far as to solicit urgently the prosecution of the trial at Rome; for His Majesty knows very well that this is purely an affair of conscience, and one in which, putting aside consanguinity, friendship, or any other consideration, the truth must be investigated and made patent. Had the Emperor, your master, sent us the brief of dispensation when we applied for it the whole affair might now be cleared up and decided. If so, it would have been a great pleasure and comfort to me, for the delay in the decision of this case is extremely annoying, inasmuch as so long as the matter remains in suspense the exercise of marriage is expressly forbidden to us both. (fn. n6)
	Respecting the advocation of the case to the Papal Court, the King maintained that it was far more legal, reasonable, and convenient that the case should be tried and decided here in London than anywhere else. For it was absolutely necessary (he observed) that the judges should hear what the Queen and himself, who were not people of a condition to be summoned to appear at Rome had to say; besides which there was a number of witnesses too old and infirm to quit the kingdom and give evidence so far from home in a country so troubled and distracted by war as Italy had been for many years past, and was indeed still. In consideration of which, and in order the more to facilitate the inquiry, His Holiness, the Pope, had motu proprio, without solicitation of any person whomsoever, but actuated merely by a sense of justice and impartiality, committed the case to two of his cardinals (Campeggio and Wolsey) to be tried in England. "At that time (the King continued) I wrote a letter in my own hand to the Pope, saying that not only did I consider it expedient that this matter of the marriage or divorce should be investigated in this my kingdom, but that in my opinion it was quite indispensable that it should be so, as no one in his senses could venture to think of sending the case to Rome, on account of the violence of the Imperial soldiers, who had treated His Holiness in such a disrespectful and brutal manner as to make him still tremble whenever he thought of it." (fn. n7) For this very reason did the Pope promise them most solemnly that he would never advoke the case to Rome. This lasted until the moment when the Emperor and the Pope made league together, when by the terms of the treaty of peace and alliance concluded at Barcelona, and perhaps also through dread of the Emperor and of his army, the Pope was compelled to do the Emperor's pleasure in this respect, and grant that which for the whole previous year he had considered unfair, for he has recently decreed the advocation against all reason, and even against his own promise, that whatever the sentence of the legates, he would confirm it. That the Holy Father (he continued) was influenced by the above-mentioned considerations, and, therefore, decreed the advocation of the case merely to please the Emperor and comply with his will cannot for a moment be doubted, for certainly the commission given in the first instance by the Apostolic See to two dignitaries of the Church of such rank and authority as Cardinals Campeggio and Wolsey, the former of whom was in possession of benefices and pensions from the Emperor, could not give rise to suspicion or scruple of any kind, especially as no intimidation or persuasion was meant, which would have been dishonest and unfair in a case of this kind, in which he (the Pope) never was either principal or party. (fn. n8) "Besides which (said the King) I am a conscientious prince, who prefers his own salvation to all the goods and advantages of this world, as appears sufficiently from my conduct in this affair, for had I been differently situated and not so prone to obey the voice of conscience, nobody should have hindered me from adopting other measures, which I have not taken and never will take." (fn. n9)
	With regard to the Queen's defence, the King remarked, it could be undertaken here, in London, much better and more freely than anywhere else. He had given orders to the councillors, chosen by the Queen herself, to serve and advise her faithfully, which they had done hitherto with the same affectionate and constant regard for her interests as if the action for divorce had been brought on by the meanest peasant in his dominions, some of them going as far as writing books, and maintaining what they call the Queen's rights "jusques au feu" (such were the King's words). Besides which, had the Queen wished for a counsel of foreign lawyers he would have allowed them to come, as he did in the case of the two who came from Flanders.
	The King was very glad to hear (as he himself observed) of Your Majesty's conviction that the whole of this affair had no other cause and origin than the peace and tranquillity of his own conscience. Such, and no other, were his motives, as he had informed Your Majesty by his letter. That this was the real truth, as true as the Gospel, no one could doubt who had examined his conduct in the affair. As to the remark which I made in the course of my address to him, namely, that if the matter was merely one of conscience he ought to be satisfied with the exhibition of the original brief before his ambassadors, and with the attested copy sent to him, he said: "As some suspicion hangs over the brief, a copy is not enough to set my conscience at rest. It frequently happens that transcripts are made of false documents. As to saying that my ambassadors in Spain, who were experienced men in such matters, saw and examined the original itself, that is no proof of its authenticity, for it was not shewn to them as it ought to have been, and yet they (the ambassadors) had observed certain flaws in it, of which they had not, out of respect for Your Imperial Majesty, taken any notice at the time, (fn. n10) thereby meaning, if I am rightly informed, that one of his ambassadors, the Auditor (Ghinucci), had written to say that the brief was decidedly a forgery, inasmuch as the Papal bull and the brief itself were dated the 26th of December of the same year, whereas they ought to bear different dates, for the bulls are generally calendered from the birth of Christ (la Nativité), whereas the briefs are from the Incarnation. The King, himself, did not say so, but I know from a very good source that this is one of the flaws which the said Auditor of the Apostolic Chamber pretends to have found in it.
	"I suppose (he added) the steps hitherto taken in this affair have been advised or suggested to the Emperor by some person or other, for his professions and tastes are not that way; indeed, I should have no difficulty in asserting, which I have not done before, that had the Emperor heard as much of this case as I happen to know he would at once desist from the prosecution." (fn. n11) Then he said: "Do you imagine that I have acted lightly in this case? Not the least, I would never believe those who spoke to me without first discussing the question and consulting books about it." I saw that the King by these words meant to drag me into a polemic about the validity of the marriage, and therefore shunned as much as possible the discussion of this point for two reasons: the first and principal the defence of Your Imperial Majesty's acts and interference in the affair; the other, that there are already books written on the subject in which this matter of the attempted divorce has been sufficiently discussed, so much so that there is no need of further argumentation for or against it.
	After this the King continued: "All these events have passed at times when difference of opinion and enmity prevailed between the Emperor and me; now that peace has been concluded things will go on differently and better," which last sentence he repeated in a rather emphatic tone. Indeed, I found the King's manner, whilst uttering this sentiment, so different from the mildness and composure of his former speech, that I determined as previously advised by the Queen, to follow another tack, and praise and exalt him [rather than show opposition and mistrust]. I told him that he had just given such a testimony of his great penetration and talent, as well as of his consummate skill in these matters, by the easy and clear exposition of those very points which constituted the basis of my instructions, that I did not hesitate to say no man, however learned, could have done it better. "Nevertheless (said I), I firmly believe that Your Highness inwardly approves of the Emperor's conduct in this affair, and that the objections raised against it are more intended on the part of Your Highness as a display of wit and talent than as a serious contradiction of my master's mode of thinking and behaviour in this matter." As to any dispute arising between His Highness and the Emperor (I added), there can really be none, for united as you both are now by almost brotherly affection, if contention and dispute should arise between your two Majesties, it can only be for the purpose of your gratifying each other. This much I can vouch for the Emperor, my master, convinced as I am that his utmost wish is to please his brother of England. Your Highness, who is so wise and reasonable, cannot fail to be satisfied with the answer once given to the English ambassadors [in Spain], and with what I myself have stated in fulfilment of my charge. It is not for me to dispute the point with Your Highness, but I cannot help observing that the refusal by the Emperor to deliver the original brief of dispensation was owing—apart from other reasons and considerations elsewhere stated—principally to the great danger of its being lost on the road, or falling into bad hands, for in these eventful times, when the accomplishment of this divorce might lead to perpetual enmity between the two Princes, there would not be wanting parties ready enough to waylay the bearer and get hold of the brief, and that might be accomplished in various ways."
	The King here interrupted me by asking several times the question: "But now pray, what are the Emperor's reasons for thus keeping the brief in his power, and not sending it to me to whom by right it belongs?" As I perceived his obstinacy on this point I could not help answering: "If Your Highness wishes to know what my own private opinion is about the retention of this brief by the Emperor I will at once state it in corroboration of what has already been alleged elsewhere: it is founded on right, and I would have no objection to defend this right in a court of law." The King nodded his assent, and I continued: "That the brief itself does not belong to Your Highness, and that there is no reason whatever to compel the Emperor to surrender it can be easily proved, for if Your Highness believes it to be a forgery, and not issued from the Roman Chancery, it is quite evident that it was not addressed to Your Highness, or the cost paid out of your Royal Treasury, which are the two conditions required to claim possession of an instrument. Besides, the brief is like a letter missive from the Pope; and it is an axiom of civil law that a letter missive does not belong to the person to whom it is addressed, unless he actually receives it. Ergo, His Highness cannot assert that the instrument belongs to him, since he owns never having seen or heard of it. Even supposing that it really belonged to Your Highness, my master's interest in the affair was such as to make it rightful, and even necessary, that the brief should remain in his (the Emperor's) hands, as prescribed by common law, which ordains that instruments concerning various parties should be preserved and kept by the highest in authority amongst them (fn. n12) who, of course, is obliged, when required, to furnish attested copies of the same to the interested parties." Then I added, in a milder tone, not to over irritate the King, (fn. n13) that although Your Majesty was a secular prince, not an ecclesiastical one, yet nobody could deny him the right of interference in an affair of this sort, since notwithstanding the protest entered by his ambassadors at Saragossa, it had never crossed Your Majesty's mind to exercise jurisdiction in this case, and therefore that their remonstrances and protests fell to the ground as null and inappropriate. (fn. n14)
	Respecting the cause itself, and whether it was to be tried and sentenced at Rome, or elsewhere, I had nothing to say. He had refused to comply with Your Majesty's wishes in this matter, and, therefore, nothing was left but to obey the Pope's commands and refer to the brief lately forwarded to the Cardinal of York, wherein it was expressly declared that, although right and justice were against him, he (the Pope) had, out of consideration for His Highness, and to do him pleasure, delayed as much as it was in his power, the just and legitimate advocation of the case to his court. With regard to the brief which His Holiness had written to him in his own hand, it was for His Highness to consider whether it was likely that our common Father, the Pope, who had on so many occasions shewn himself hostile to Your Imperial Majesty—of which hostility and ill-will he (the King of England) could testify better than anyone else, since out of regard for him he had joined the Italian League against the Emperor—would now, out of affection for that same prince, whom he had offended and ill-treated, condescend to issue such a brief in favour of the Queen, his aunt, and against him, his best friend and ally, had he not been stirred by a sense of justice and duty, and by the sanction of his Apostolic authority? As to me, I wondered not at the Pope issuing the brief in question; my wonder was that he had not in the first instance written to say that the marriage was null and void, and that it was neither wrong nor difficult to obtain a separation and divorce.
	It was evident to me that this topic was a disagreeable one for the King, and that he feared lest by going on with my argument, it should be proved, as many people here and elsewhere pretend to say, that our Holy Father had been one of the promoters of the divorce, for he suddenly interrupted me by saying: "Enough about that Pope (ce Pape), this is not the first time that he has changed his mind; I have long known his versatile and fickle nature."
	With regard to his assertion that the Pope would never dare pronounce sentence in the affair, unless it was favourable to Your Majesty and to the Queen, I observed that His Highness ought to cast away all fear on that account. Your Imperial Majesty was the Prince of Christendom, who feared God most, and had the greatest regard for justice. Had he considered the marriage illegitimate, not only would he not object to a separation of the parties, but would never have consented to two persons of their rank, and so closely allied to him, living in sin. Your Majesty should show to the World that he was not an usurper or a tyrant, and although all powerful now in Italy, would not abuse his power. These last words were not much to the King's liking, for he kept repeating: "Not so much (non point trop), not so much."
	As to the difficulty which His Highness found in himself, the Queen, and the witnesses repairing to Rome, I told him plainly that the remedy was at hand. He had only to appoint agents and proctors to represent him there, not liable to suspicion as the last were, but impartial and honest men, without any jurisdiction, commission, or mandate whatsoever, save that of examining [witnesses] and proving their allegations, and justice would have its course all the same.
	As the King in the course of conversation had frequently alluded to the last peace, saying that he had been one of its principal promoters, I could not help remarking that the chief cause which had moved Your Majesty to conclude the said peace, and to let many things pass (et laisser colder beaucoup de choses),was the affection and regard he entertained for him, as well as his wish to gratify him, and follow in the track (brisèes) of the treaty which he himself had drawn. In fact, I had charge to tell him, in case the treaty of Cambray had not been concluded and signed before my arrival, that if he (the King) wished to become one of the mediators, Your Majesty would be much pleased by his acceptance of the post, and would certainly have done more for him than for any other prince in the world, without stopping to consider whether that peace was to his taste or not, thus showing how grateful Your Majesty was for such interference, and that Your Imperial Majesty had by no means forgotten the pleasures and enjoyments of his kind hospitality, or the timely assistance [in money] to which he had alluded. If Your Majesty had not yet taken his revenge (revanche) in this respect he would soon do so, for Your Majesty's nature was such that he could not allow himself to be surpassed in generosity and affection by anyone. I, therefore, again entreated him to consider the friendly message whereof I was the bearer, &c.
	To this exposition of the various points contained in my instructions the King replied that he was exceedingly glad to hear of Your Majesty's kind sentiments towards him, which he reciprocated. Returning to the principal object of your mission, (he said): "Whenever the Emperor feels disposed to listen to my reasons, and consents to waive all affections for the sake of justice, and to look into the truth of this case, I shall have no difficulty to abide by his decision (qu'il s'en voudroit bien tenir á ce).
	The King did not say more on this occasion, and even the last words passed only between us two. I replied that neither passion nor affection had command of Your Majesty's heart. That could not be doubted even in the present case, which was equally a matter of conscience for him and for the parties concerned. Upon which he (the King) interrupted me by saying: "Well, it is getting late, and I must needs go. I shall soon be in London, where we can discuss these matters more at leisure." My answer was: "As to my waiting Your Highness' pleasure in London, I must observe that, although I have been appointed Imperial ambassador at this Court in case of Doctor Lee retaining that office next the Emperor's person, yet—." Here the King again interrupted me and said: "It is true that Doctor Lee has been recalled owing to the Emperor having left him behind in Spain, but that is no reason for your returning so soon, for I have already appointed other ambassadors to replace the Doctor, and they will soon take their departure [for Italy]." He then told me to stop to dinner, promising that I should be well entertained, and gave Mons. de Rochefort orders to that effect. After which, and when about to retire to his private apartments, he added: "Should news come from the Emperor, or you yourself want anything, you have only to inform me of your wishes by letter, or through one of your secretaries and they shall be attended to immediately." I then begged his permission to call on the Queen and present the Emperor's letters to her, which he willingly granted, and then retired to his apartments.
	On my leaving the Audience Hall Mr. de Rochefort, the King's treasurer, and other gentlemen of the Court came to welcome me. The King then sent for the treasurer (Rochefort) and others of his Privy Council and related to them part of our conversation, as I afterwards learned from Mr. de Rochefort himself, when, after our return to the hall, he, my guide (Dr. Hennege), another gentleman, and myself sat down together to dine. During dinner the conversation turned naturally on Your Imperial Majesty, and I must say that the said Mr. de Rochefort inquired most kindly after your health, your passage to Italy, the suite you took thither, and other particulars; after which he remarked that the affairs of Christendom could not but go on prosperously now that its two chief heads (meaning Your Imperial Majesty and the Pope) were agreed. His not mentioning other Christian princes made me suspect that this was said rather ironically, and that perhaps he (the treasurer) would have preferred on his daughter's account that Pope and Emperor had not been so united as they are on this occasion. After dinner, however, he took me apart and said: "The King tells me that you are thinking of leaving us soon owing to Dr. Lee's recall from Spain. You must not do that." My answer was: "So I was determined to do at first, but since the King proposes sending another embassy to the Emperor you may tell him that I will remain, for such are my instructions which His Highness had no time to hear in full." I can assure you replied Mr. de Rochefort that the King, my master, whatever his differences with the Emperor may have been at other times, bears him more affection than anyone can think, imagine, or describe. I would have given anything, nay, the whole of my fortune, for the Emperor to be convinced of my master's goodwill and affectionate regard, and that such being the case the two princes should certainly understand each other on all points." "The King may be sure," was my answer, "that the Emperor, my master, fully reciprocates such sentiments, and as to your saying that you would willingly give up the whole of your fortune for such conviction and assurance, I may tell you that you can be gratified at much less expense, for I will take the very first opportunity, as my instructions prescribe, of convincing you and the King of my master's sentiments." At this juncture a gentleman came out of the King's chamber in search of Mr. de Rochefort, upon which, after promising to renew our conversation when we first met in London, he took leave of me, and went into the King' apartments.
	Soon after this Mons. de Rossel (Russel) and other gentlemen of the Royal Household came to conduct me to the apartments of the Queen, who, attended by a number of gentlemen and ladies, came out of her chamber. I presented my credentials to her, and proceeded to explain in almost the same words I had used to the King, the object of my mission. The Queen seemed very much gratified at my coming, and observed that if my words and remarks to the King had been as described, no one could have executed his commission better or spoken more to her satisfaction. Respecting the Papal brief, about which the King himself had spoken with such persistence, she observed that for those who had any regard for truth and justice, and knew the ins and outs of the affair, (fn. n15) there was no necesity for that document. After which she said: "There are, however, matters upon which I dare not, surrounded as I am, speak to you in detail. I will send you one of my servants to explain the remainder. There is, however, one thing I must not forget, which is that if you have not yet visited Cardinal Campeggio, it is very important that you should see him as soon as possible, and thank him in my name and in that of the Emperor also for his honest and rightful behaviour, and the trouble he has taken in this affair. As to me, I am so grateful for what he has done that I should hardly know how to repay his services." I then told her that I was the bearer of letters both from Your Imperial Majesty and from Madame for the Cardinal of York, and that I wished to know whether I ought to deliver them or not. "There is no necessity (replied the Queen), for the Cardinal's affairs are at this moment rather embroiled (en gran brausle)." This last sentence she said in such a low tone of voice that nobody but myself could hear her, and I doubt even whether the courtiers in the room could see her actually move her lips. After this she raised her voice to its usual pitch, and inquired where Your Majesty was, and whether your health was good, and so forth. After hearing my answer to all and every one of the above questions, she asked me for the letter which she knew Your Majesty had written to her in your own hand, and which I had not yet dared present. She told me to pass it over to her physician, which I did, after which the conference ended, and I took leave of her. I must not omit to say that as I was on my way to the Queen's apartments under the guidance of Master Rossel I was complimented by him on the satisfactory and pleasing manner in which the King had received me. I had already received from Mr. de Rochefort similar assurances, and if truth be told, I myself was far from expecting such a reception. So when I heard my guide (Mr. Russel) insist so much on this topic, and tell me all manner of agreeable things respecting the good impression I had made upon the King, his master, and other flattering remarks about my person, such as the courtiers of this country are in the habit of saying to any new ambassador, I seized the opportunity, and said to him: "I am happy to hear by what you tell me that half my task is already accomplished, for if the King is as pleased with me as you say, half the game is played; it now remains for my master, the Emperor, to be equally satisfied on his own side with what the King and I have said and done in the affair. I wish you would go back to the King and beg him, before he starts for the chase, to give me some sort of resolution on the subject of my mission. Though he has spoken at length, I confess I am unable to guess what his real intentions are, and what he proposes doing. He has certainly raised several objections and told me many things rather with a view to argue than because he really is of a different opinion, but I cannot judge of his intentions. I, therefore, most humbly beg him to say whether he wishes me to add to or curtail, or otherwise modify, what he has just said to me, for I am desirous to inform the Emperor as soon as possible of the result of my mission. If I do not hear from him in time, I am determined to write to my Court about the favourable reception I have had, and the affection your King bears the Emperor, my master, and so forth. About my principal charge I cannot say anything definitive, unless the King himself orders me to do so in writing."
	It appears, as I afterwards learned, that when Mr. de Rossel delivered this message of mine to the King, the latter was so much pleased with it that he turned to his councillors there present and said: "Now, gentlemen, do you not begin to see the truth of what I told you about this ambassador from the Emperor?" and he forthwith ordered Rossel to return to me, and say that he would shortly communicate with me through Mr. de Rochefort and his own secretary.
	Coming back from the Queen's apartments I found that the King was still up (descouché) and conversing with Mr. de Rochefort. Secretary Rossel went in and announced me, and then came out with the following message: "Up to this hour the King, my master, has not yet had time to look into this affair, and prepare an answer to the Emperor; were he called upon to give one immediately he could but repeat the arguments he had made use of at the conference. But His Highness purposes going back to London soon, and there, after one or more interviews, that affair and others may and will be discussed." Meanwhile (Russel added), I was to let the King know of any news I received [from Italy], and in a like manner he would inform me of anything that came to his knowledge. He then gave orders that a beast laden with the best venison that could be procured should be sent to my lodgings in London.
	I am not at all astonished at the King's not giving me an answer after dinner, as I requested, for in the first place he had then no other member of his Privy Council with him except the said Mr. de Rochefort, the father of the Lady [Anne] and then the King himself was in a great hurry to repair to the meeting place of the morning, where the Lady was ready to open the chase. So that, all things considered, the constellation under which we were was by no means a favourable one for obtaining an answer to Your Majesty's letter.
	That very day I went to a place three short miles off, and stopped to see if any news or message came from the Queen. Perceiving, however, that none was forthcoming, I sent one of my men to her physician, who replied in the Queen's name: "That on no account was I to write or send an express to the Emperor until I heard from her, as she would communicate with me as soon as possible through him (the physician)." And yet she again requested me to call on Campeggio, as she had advised me to do before he went to Court, because that cardinal being on the eve of departure it was important that he should at his last audience from the King say something (donner un recharge) in her favour. As Campeggio, however, was then staying with the other cardinal at one of his country seats, and both were preparing to visit the King, there was no means of my seeing him in private without arousing suspicion, for he (Campeggio) was suspected of being rather favourable to the Queen and envious of Wolsey. (fn. n16) I, therefore, determined not to go to London, but remain where I was, from fear of meeting the said Campeggio, and having to speak to the other (Wolsey), which would have been disagreeable to the Queen, who had advised me not to call on him, and more disagreeable still to the King, as I had occasion to learn from many of his courtiers. I therefore sent one of my men to that Cardinal (Campeggio) informing him by letter, without signature or superscription, so that if intercepted nobody could tell who wrote it and to whom it was addressed, in as few words as possible, of the message I had received from the Queen. His (Campeggio's) answer was that he expected soon to have an opportunity of speaking to the King on the subject, when he would not fail to take up the Queen's cause, as he had done at other times.
	I need not particularize the good services of the Cardinal in this affair, because I know the Queen herself is about to write to Your Imperial Majesty on the subject. He has since this letter was begun visited the King, and obtained permission, though not without great difficulty, for the Cardinal of England to present himself at Court. It was at first flatly refused, on the plea that his colleague was under a sentence of exile from Court, and ordered to reside three miles away from it, and not to appear unless summoned. At last the King consented, but only on condition that the two legates should come to him without any sort of pomp or ceremony, without their crosses preceding them as usual, or that arrogant display (braverie) of retainers which the two cardinals were wont to shew in public, but with only 10 or 12 servants each. The Duke of Suffolk, hearing of the Cardinal's arrival at Court, has managed matters so well that it will be impossible for him (Wolsey) to lodge where the King is now living. This has been done with a view to countermine him if perchance he should return to his old practices, and get into favour again. So I hear the reception made to the two cardinals has been very meagre; there is no knowing yet how the parting audience will turn out. Campeggio is gone, as I said before, to ask for his "congé." I fancy that it will be granted more easily than the bishopric promised him in England.
	"The Queen is rather concerned and frightened at this meeting of the English Estates (Parliament) which is to take place soon. She fears that something may be brewed there against her. Her fears originate in the conduct of the King, her husband, who, she says, has played his cards so well that he is likely to get a majority of votes in his favour, and may perhaps be tempted to obtain by this means what he has not yet been able to get in any other way. But I am inclined to believe that there is no fear of that, the affection of the English for Your Majesty and for the Queen being so great." (fn. n17)
	It is reported that the real cause of this Parliament having been convoked for the 2nd of November is, independently of others specified in my despatch of the 4th of September, to investigate the conduct and examine the accounts of all those functionaries who have been connected with the finances of this country. Others add that a motion will be made to abolish the Legatine Office in England, and prevent the Pope from appointing or sending in future legates to this country. Those who think so may not be far from the truth, for I now recollect that at the last sitting of the Legates (Campeggio and Wolsey) for the purpose of proroguing the case until the 2nd of October, the Duke of Suffolk got into a great passion and began to swear, and say within hearing of the King himself, of the cardinals, and of all those who had come to that piteous ceremony in order to hear whether the sentence was in favour of the Queen or against her: "I see now the truth of what I have heard many people say; never at any time did a Papal legate do anything to the profit of England; they have always been, and will hereafter be a calamity and a sore to this country."
	"I need scarcely observe that if these sentiments of the Duke gain ground with the King and the people of this country, there will be a door wide open for the Lutheran heresy to creep into England, which is the very identical threat made by the English ambassador at Rome when the Pope was pleased to grant the advocation, as I have informed Your Majesty in a previous despatch. I firmly believe that if they had nothing to fear but the Pope's excommunication and malediction, there are innumerable people in this country who would follow the Dukes advice, and make of the King and ordinary prelates as many Popes. All this for the sole purpose of having the divorce case tried in England, notwithstanding the Holy Father's inhibition, and not so much perhaps for the ill-will they bear towards ecclesiastics in general, bnt principally on account of their property which they covet and wish, to seize.It is to be hoped, however, that fear of Your Majesty, if no other consideration, will defeat such wicked plans.
	Yesterday the Queen sent her physician to ask me to despatch immediately a courier to Your Majesty with the account of the above conference, and everything else I have seen or heard since my landing in England; also to report about the general inhibition and its publication in this country, but having told him (the physician) that the execution had been already made, both at Bruges and at Dunkerk, he immediately returned to acquaint his mistress with the fact that she might, if interrogated by the King, know what to answer. The express, who was to be the bearer of this letter, will not leave until the physician's return, which, he tells me, will take place two days hence.
	The Queen has sent me word expressly to warn Your Imperial Majesty against any attempts, past or future, made by the King or by his ambassadors to persuade Your Majesty that the divorce case had been merely instituted for the discharge of his conscience. That is not the fact; the idea of the separation originated entirely in his own iniquity and malice. Whatever the peace [between the Empereor and him] the heart was not free, and he could not but show this on many occasions. (fn. n18) The very same day the news of this last peace of Cambray arrived in London he was the first to go and announce it to the queen, which he did in these words; "My peace with the Emperor is made, it will last as long as you Choose." Some time ago he said at dinner: "I fancied at one time that this treaty of Cambray would be the means of ensuring peace and tranquillity to all Christendom. I was mistaken; ambition and lust of power must still be alive in the Emperor's heart since Alessandria is, I hear, being besieged by his troops."
	As far as I can hear and judge, this King's obstinacy and his passion for the Lady are such that there is no chance of recalling him by mildness or fair words to a sense of his duty. Things having come to such a pitch, there can be no security or repose [for the Queen] unless the case be tried and decided [at Rome], and the sooner the better, for many reasons and political considerations, whereof Your Majesty is the best judge. I am convinced that the opposite party will not leave things as they are, but intend proceeding in the case. In proof of which assertion I may tell Your Majesty that a very few days ago the King proposed to the Queen to have the whole case transferred to Cambray instead of Rome, which proposition, of course, was rejected, and will not be accepted unless Your Majesty wishes it to be so. I must further state that the King has not yet consented to the advocation being intimated to him, as, among other things, it contains a summons for him to appear personally before the Pope at Rome, which, of course, he refuses, as besides his unwillingness to quit his kingdom on such an errand, there is a law (pragmatique) in England which forbids it under pain of confiscation of property and imprisonment. Neither has he allowed the inhibition to be served to the cardinals in virtue of the first Papal brief, but only by means of a second one addressed separately and individually to the Cardinal of York, which has since been done. According to the letter of this second brief, both cardinals have now resigned their powers, as well as their delegation and jurisdiction from the Pope in due form, as Your Majesty will see by the enclosed copy of the deed of resignation, (fn. n19) so that they can no longer proceed or mix themselves up with the affair, as if the principal execution had been directed against them. (fn. n20)
	The Queen had at one time resolved to be herself the bearer of the inhibition, and since there was no one to execute, to present the same to the King; but on the latter representing that it was quite sufficient that the two cardinals should resign, and exhorting her not to take such a step she (the Queen) agreed to desist, on condition of her counsel declaring that no harm or detriment should ensue to her interests, and that the inhibition to the cardinals should be considered sufficient. This has already been attended to in Flanders, as Madame writes, and the execution duly made both at Bruges and Dunkerk according to the letter and form of the mandate. The whole will, I fancy, be immediately forwarded to Rome that the 60 days of the summons may not expire. It now remains for the Imperial ambassadors at Rome to proceed in the affair as discreetly and honourably (honnestement) as they can.
	The Duke of Norfolk, formerly High Admiral of England, was not at Court when I arrived, and therefore I could not give him Your Majesty's letter. Brian Tuke was, and I failed not to deliver those I had for him. I may be wonderfully mistaken about the last-named official, but I cannot help thinking that he wishes to be useful to Your Majesty in his way. He was one of the first to call on me and to make all manner of offers, but as I did not know him then I refrained from saying much about him. He has called again, and when announced to me as Master Brian Tuke, I gave him the Imperial letter, which he read in my presence with much apparent gratitude, and carefully renewing the offers of service made on a former occasion. We have since conversed several times at full length, and he has promised that if he only can escape from Court he will come to me in London. I must observe that I have found many courtiers and others making similar professions of friendship and offers of service. I will not give their names until their deeds respond to their words, for, being still unacquainted with their tempers and conditions, I am unwilling to trust them, and have therefore returned their compliments in mere words.
	To replace Mr. Baruech, (fn. n21) who, together with the Dean of the Chapel, was to have gone as ambassador to Your Majesty, the Master of the Horse (grand escuyer), Nicolas Caro (Carew), has been appointed, owing to the former having fallen from his horse and broken his leg. They are to start together in 10 or 12 days at the same time with another embassy to France, consisting of men "de moindre equippage et estoffe." One of them is George Bollin (Boleyn), the son of Mr. de Rochefort, and brother of the Lady Anne; the other one, Doctor Stocler (Stockley), the man who has most violently and obstinately supported the cause of the divorce, and who is still doing the utmost he can to promote it, for, I am told, scarcely one day passes without his writting some paper or suggesting some new argument in support of what he calls his master's right. The Queen is very much afraid that he (Dr. Stokley) is sent now to France for no other purpose than that of inducing the University of Paris to write in behalf of this King.
	From Flanders I have nothing new to report since my arrival in England. I have frequently heard from Madame, but only personal news about Your Majesty, for the information of this Court, or from Hungary and the Turk. These last, however, are often obtained here much quicker than in Flanders, owing to the ambassadors of the Vayvod (Zapolsky) being still here, who, as Your Majesty may suppose, are not idle in circulating, as the Venetians and the French also do, whatever rumours there may be unfavourable to Your Majesty's brother.—London, 21st September 1529.
	Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
	Addressed: "A l'Empereur."
	French. Holograph partly in cipher. Contemporary deciphering on the same sheet. pp. 20.
— Sept.	161. Memorandum of Matters to be solicited from his Holiness at Bologna.
S. E. R. Cap. c. Pont L. l, f. 141. B. M. Add. 28,579. f. 294.	The affairs of the Queen of England above all.
	The confirmation of the bull on patronates, and that of the union and incorporation of the military orders, (fn. n22) with their respective masterships, &c.
	Modification of the brief of absolution from the sack of Rome.
	A brief empowering viceroys, governors of provinces, and presidents of "audiencias" and chancery courts to imprison, try, and condemn clergymen and ecclesiastics in general without notification.
	The Inquisition.
	Extension of the brief authorizing the sale or exchange of all property belonging to the military orders.
	The pension of 10,000 ducats which His Holiness enjoyed on the see of Toledo.
	The persons who are to be expelled from Rome.
	Cardinals, &c.
	Spanish. Contemporary. pp. 3.
— Sept.	162. Miçer Miguel Mai to the High Commander. (fn. n23)
S. E. R. Cap. c. Pont L. 1, f. 141. B. M. Add. 28,579, f. 393.	"The brief forbidding the King to take another wife, as long as the present suit is pending, has been secretly affixed in the Chancery at St. Peter and at San Petronio, in Bologna. A copy of it is now being forwarded to Madame [Margaret], that she may have it published in the low countries. Another copy has been sent to the Queen, in England, and to the Imperial ambassador [Chapuys], telling them to remit here a legal notification of their doings (information del hecho), to be used in case of need when the proceedings commence. Meanwhile the Imperial lawyers here in Rome are examining the papers received from London."
	Indorsed: "Paragraph from a letter of Miçer Mai, the ambassador at Rome."
	Spanish. Original, p. 1.
22 Sept.	163. Louis de Praët and Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 848, f. 93. B. M. Add. 28,579, f. 169.	The Pope will start for Bologna on the 4th or 5th of next month.
	Enclosed are letters from Cardinal Colonna and the Marquis Alarcon. Copies have also been forwarded to the Prince [of Orange], that he may learn Renzo's (fn. n24) proceedings in Naples.—Rome, 22nd September 1529.
	[Cipher:] Yesterday Secretary Sanga came to us from the Pope, begging us to write to the Prince not to admit in future compositions in money like that of Cortona. He (the Pope) wished to recover his estate with all possible mildness (dulzura) and good treatment. It was for that purpose that he had made a treaty, and paid the sums wanted.
	We have accordingly written to the Prince to avoid in future exactions (fn. n25) of that kind.
	Signed: "Praët.—Mai."
	Spanish. Original in cipher, pp. 1½.
23 Sept.	164. Poupet de la Chaux to the Emperor.
Lanz. Corresp. I., p. 332.	After his letter from Novalesa, giving an account of his arrival at that place, he (Poupet) prosecuted his journey and was honourably received and entertained one whole day by the Duchess of Savoy and her two sons, as he had the honour to inform the Emperor by Grospain. Went next morning to San Giovanni di Moriana, where the Duke (Carlo), her husband, was waiting for him. He had previously sent to him (Poupet) the sieur de Lullin, governor of Vaulx, a very wise and honourable gentleman, who met him more than two leagues on the road. At San Govianni he (Poupet) was met by the Duke himself, accompanied by a number of his courtiers, who, notwithstanding all the excuses and requests he (Poupet) could make, would not consent to his going alone, and actually accompanied him to the very handsome and comfortable lodgings prepared for him. When, after taking some rest, he (Poupet) went to call on the Duke, he found him preparing to visit the Emperor, at Genoa, for which place an embassy, consisting of the Bishop of Moriana, the sieur de Sarmoya (sic), the president of his Council, and another gentleman, whose name or title he (Poupet) does not recollect, had already started.
	The Duke told him (Poupet) that the Lord of Monego (Monaco) had been for some time in treaty with him for the sale of his estate; the Duke had offered 30,000 crs. down, and 4,000 crs. more every year, which offer had been almost accepted by that lord, on condition of his being allowed to retain his bishopric and other benefices he held under the king of France. Whilst the negociation was going on, the Lord of Monaco (Grimaldo) told him (the Duke) that the king of France had offered a wonderful price for his town and estate, notwithstanding which, he said, he kept to the bargain, and would gladly accept the price offered. Some time after this he said that he was in treaty with the Emperor, hearing which the Duke instantly declined having anything to do with the Monaco estate, and the matter dropped, as he would not do what might be unpleasant to the Emperor. The Duke added, and let this be private and confidential, "the Lord of Monaco is a fickle and capricious individual, not to be depended upon."
	The Duke [of Savoy] starts on this expedition with a light heart, and determined to do good service. He is now trying to borrow money, pawn or sell part of his estate, and raise funds to meet the expenses of his journey to Bologna, and visit the Emperor there; but should he be obliged to go further, say to Rome, he will have much difficulty in accomplishing his purpose, for if he is expected to go in state, with a numerous retinue, much money will be required, which certainly at the present moment does not abound in this duchy. It is for His Majesty to decide what the Duke is to do, for he is wonderfully disposed to obey the Imperial mandates in all things, and is undertaking this journey with perfect good-will. His two sons, too, are the Emperor's nephews, and his wife (the Duchess Beatrix) is perhaps the princess of the Imperial family who has shewn the most affection for the Emperor, and the greatest regard for his interests in Italy.
	He is very much put out at his President of the Finances having been taken prisoner in France, and has, as it appears, written to the Emperor about it, and says that due representations shall be made to the King and Queen Regent of France.
	The peace is variously spoken of here; some believe that it will hold good; others that it cannot last; others again that it is a hoax (tromperie).
	Was told at his passage through Italy, that the Swiss, Venetians, and Luquese had made a secret alliance against His Majesty, and that the former would without fail send to Italy 30,000 men next year. The number is apparently so exaggerated, that he (Poupet) had at first no difficulty in believing the whole to be an invention of the enemy, yet the information comes from such a good source, and has been so often repeated to him, that he considers inquiry should be made about it. Has accordingly begged Mr. de Lullin, an excellent man very much devoted to the Emperor, and about to return to the canton of Vaux, of which he is now the governor, to make inquiries and let him know. This Mr. de Lullin has just returned from France, whither he went as ambassador, Madame the Regent having asked for his recall (l' a fait desappoincter); owing no doubt, as he himself thinks, to his having once prevented the Swiss and Valesians from joining St. Pol in Italy, as he (Lullin) can prove by the copy of his letter to the Grand Master [of France] on that occasion.
	The above was written before his (Poupet's) arrival in this city, which took place on the 20th inst. The governor, one of the Triulzi family, and a nephew of the Count and Marechal of France [Theodoro], came out one half league to receive him, as did soon after many personages and nobles anxious to make his acquaintance and welcome him to their city. It was about six in the afternoon when he (Poupet) arrived at the gates. As he was at the end of the Rone (fn. n26) bridge, a gentleman came from the Admiral [of France], Bryon, to welcome him, and propose that they should sup together either at his [Poupet's] lodgings, or at those of his master. Thanked the Admiral for his courtesy, and returned his message by saying that as no doubt he (the Admiral) had much the better fare to offer, he (Poupet) accepted his invitation with pleasure, and would call at the appointed hour. Therefore, instead of going to the inn, where rooms had been bespoken for him and his attendants, he (Poupet) went at once to the Admiral's hotel not to make him wait. The Admiral came out to the very gate, and gave him the most courteous and honourable reception that could be imagined. Told him, among other extremely polite phrases, that when the King, his master, first heard of his coming on a mission from Your Majesty, his joy was intense, inasmuch as he knew very well who he (Poupet) was, and expected to get on with him much better than with anyone else. "As to the King, my master (the Admiral added), you will find him so desirous of keeping up the Emperor's friendship and alliance, that you will have no difficulty whatever as to the fulfilment of his engagements; for after all, whatever differences may once have existed between the Emperor and my master, experience shows that most often the bitterest enemies become the surest friends." To such complimentary address he (Poupet) replied as well as he could, telling him in conclusion that if the King, his master, proved to be such as he described, he had not the least doubt that the Emperor would prove to be the best friend and brother he ever had. The Admiral then offered him a robe instead of the travelling "housse" he had on. Answered that he could drink as copiously "en housse" as any other man "en purpoint." Sat at the uppermost end of the table, and partook of a most splendid repast. After supper, which was attended by a number of gentlemen, "a une grande table de quatre plats," both the Admiral and he retired to a corner at the end of the hall, and there the former began to inquire after His Majesty's health, at the same time saying many complimentary things about his personal qualities, and so forth, and ending by inquiring where the Imperial Court might be at present, "for," said he, "I am at this moment charged with a mission from the King, my master." Told him that at the date of his last letters His Majesty was still at Piacenza, but that his correspondents could not say how long the Court would remain there, or whither it would go afterwards. Believed, however, that however short the stay, he (the Admiral) had still a good chance of finding His Imperial Majesty either at Piacenza or perhaps in the immediate neighbourhood. He then began to enumerate and praise the benefits and advantages of peace contrasting them with the miseries and calamities of war, and said he had charge from the King, his master, to point out to His Imperial Majesty the desirability of executing promptly and at once whatever designs might have been formed respecting Italy, 'without giving the enemies of the Empire time to strengthen themselves. "His Imperial Majesty (he added) must not allow himself to be deluded by the sweet words or the fine promises of those Italians, whose only object is to gain time until the winter season, which is just at hand. No nation can speak more fairly, but none is more deceitful. The King, my master, knows them well by experience." Nor did the Admiral stop here in his confidences. "As a proof," he continued, "of my master's great desire for peace I will tell you a secret. I have full powers to agree at once and without consulting him to any proposition His Majesty may make respecting the execution of the treaty, to sign deeds and documents, and do anything else as if he himself (the King) were present." After expatiating at same length on the nature of his commission and instructions in the same courtly language, told him that His Majesty had been already informed of his appointment, and expected him at Piacenza. Added that, knowing of old his qualifications and honourable parts, nothing could have given the Emperor greater pleasure than his nomination, &c. The Admiral inquired whether he (Poupet) had any particular charge as to the way and manner in which the Dauphin and the Duke of Orleans (Charles), as well as Queen Eleanor, were to be delivered at the frontier in exchange for the money which his master was bound to pay, as well as the other conditions which he had to fulfil. He had presumed to make the inquiry (observed the Admiral) because he was ready to make him (Poupet) similar confidences as to his own instructions and his master's ideas and views on the subject. Told him that he had no charge from Your Majesty to speak or treat of such matters, but since that was, as he had just revealed to him, his principal mission, he had not the least doubt that he would find His Majesty so frank, open, and generous, and so affectionate to his brother of France, that any reasonable proposals made by an ambassador like himself (Brion), in the name of his royal master could not fail to meet with His Majesty's entire approbation. As to the delivery itself, and the manner in which it could best be effected for the mutual security of the parties, he saw little or no difficulty, as it might take place precisely at the same spot, and under the same formalities and conditions as when the King himself was exchanged for his two sons [in March 1526]. If no better expedient was suggested, his opinion was that whatever was done on that occasion might be taken as rule and precedent in the present, and he ended by expressing his firm belief that should any objections be started, or an easier mode of mutual delivery proposed, His Majesty would be ready to accommodate his brother of France.
	These last words were so pleasing to the Admiral's ears that he embraced him (Poupet) most affectionately, andsaid: "I am more delighted than I can say to hear of the Emperor's good-will and honourable intentions in this affair." After which he went on to speak about Mr. d'Angouleme, who, he said, was one of the handsomest and most attractive youths in the world, just as his two sisters were the prettiest young ladies at the French Court. Nay, he went on speaking for some time on this subject, as if he wanted him to take it up and allude to the contents of the King's note, which Des Barres took the other day to the Emperor. Perceiving, however, that he (Poupet) made no allusion to it, the Admiral passed on to the subject of Queen Eleanor, who, he observed, when in the company of the King, her husband, could not fail, God willing, to have soon a numerous succession as handsome and comely as the former. Then he said that she (Queen Leonor) was so anxiously expected by all classes of people in France, that he (the Admiral) could not describe the joy and enthusiasm caused by the announcement of her having actually started for the French frontier. Must observe that the Admiral is not the only Frenchman who speaks in this way about the Emperor's sister; many have told him more than once that she will be the means of restoring this kingdom to its former importance, of which restoration, it must be owned, it stands greatly in need, to judge from appearances. Of the Queen Mother, Louise de Savoie, no mention was made in the conversation, except to say that she took charge of the King's children, which makes him (Poupet) suspect that the Admiral is no particular friend of hers.
	Mr. de Brion is now about to send a gentleman of his suite to His Majesty to ask for a safe-conduct across the frontier, and also to ascertain where the Court is likely to be for the next few weeks. Wish to God the Imperial ministers may have thought of this in time, before the Admiral himself makes the application, for when one of his (Poupet's) servants, who was sent forward to announce his arrival and secure good and comfortable quarters, came to this city, he happened to see letters of the King of France for this governor, enjoining him to give the Imperial ambassador the best reception possible, and so he has, for certainly the hospitality and courtesy shewn to him cannot be sufficiently commended.
	Forgot to say that among the many things which the Admiral said on the subject of this general peace and the affairs of Italy he introduced some trifling remarks which, though vague and obscure, and referring to no potentate in particular, might in his (Poupet's) opinion bear on the Pope. He said: "I hope the Emperor is not so closely bound to his friends in that country [Italy] as to prevent him from doing towards others what is just and reasonable." His answer was that His Majesty could not possibly forget any of his engagements. "Well and good," replied the Admiral, "but those to whom promises have been made ought to be satisfied with what they have got already, and ask for nothing more. The Emperor might remonstrate, and then after mature deliberation grant only what is just and reasonable." Cared not to let him know that his allusion had been understood, and, therefore, made no further inquiry about it. The conjecture, however, became a certainty in his (Poupet's) mind, when next day Messire Galias Visconte (fn. n27) came to meet him at St. Paul's, after mass; for, among other things, he said whilst accompanying him back to his lodgings: "I have just come from the King of France, with whom I have often conversed on the subject of Italian politics. I was with him when the news of your appointment was received. Nothing, I can assure you, could have given him greater satisfaction than the said intelligence, knowing, as he does, your quality and parts." Such was Visconti's flattering speech, but he (Poupet) fancies that there was irony in it, as if he wished to imply under covered words (soubs mots couverts) that this present peace could not be of long duration, for he went on to say; "We know very well that by the treaty concluded between the Emperor and the Holy Father it has been stipulated that Modena and Reggio, which the Duke of Ferrara still retains, shall be restored to the latter. This we know by a duplicate copy of the treaty which our Holy Father himself has sent us here, to France; but, on the other hand, the King's sister-in-law (Renée), married to Ercole d' Este, has such an interest in that affair that I cannot imagine how that article of the treaty can be carried into execution." Repeated to him the very same words he had told the Admiral, namely: "His Imperial Majesty intended fulfilling every one of the promises or stipulations of the treaty, and as to the restoration of those cities to our Holy Father I am not aware that it has been even mentioned in the peace of Cambray. Any stipulation made in that treaty the Emperor will surely fulfil." Here Galeazzo interrupted him by saying: "You are mistaken, it is mentioned in the treaty." He then paused as calculating what he had better say next, and continued after a while: "You may be right after all, but the King, my master, has so often spoken to the Emperor's aunt (Margaret) on the subject, and so earnestly requested her to interfere, that she has promised at last to do her utmost in the affair, which promise is to us almost equal to a real stipulation inserted in the treaty."
	In this manner did he (Poupet) guess at the meaning of the Admiral's words. Galeazzo, however, went on explaining that there were two families (deux lignaiges) in Italy which were the cause and origin of all the misfortunes of that poor country, namely, the Medici and the Sforza, and that the sooner they became extinct the better; the World would not enjoy peace until they had disappeared from its surface.
	Has known this Galeazzo Visconti for many years as a man rather inclined to speak unfavourably of people in general, but upon the whole he is a shrewd politician and full of wit. He is not the only courtier who asserts that this peace will not be of long duration, and many go as far as to say that there is some deep intrigue going on somewhere. Will do his best to unravel it, and if successful will not fail to acquaint His Majesty. Meanwhile, the best remedy, in his (Poupet's) opinion, lies in the pacification of Italy as soon as possible, so as to remain on friendly terms with all and every one of its rulers, and for the Emperor to be satisfied with what has already been won at this game, without attempting to sweep the board quite clear. (fn. n28) His Imperial Majesty is in a better position now than any other prince in Christendom; he has gained both honour and reputation, he is besides, sword in hand, ready to strike; therefore no one can say hereafter that the steps taken now were dictated by ambition, but by liberal and good sentiments, and for the remedy of poor Christianity, which is in a fair way of being destroyed and annihilated.
	Has always considered this Milan affair as the origin and cause of all evils, and recollects perfectly well what were the Emperor's instructions to Don Hugo de Moncada in 1526, Has no doubt His Majesty bears them in mind also; and, therefore, if Don Hugo had then the charge of carrying out certain instructions and plans in the Duchy, why not have them accomplished now the Emperor is in Italy? There is still another consideration not to be disregarded, which is the enormous cost of so many armies as His Majesty is obliged to maintain; that the winter season is close at hand, and that if the money to pay those armies is not forthcoming regularly one cannot say what may happen. The Emperor must recollect what he (Poupet) told him on the day he took leave to come here on this embassy: "Should the King of France be badly inclined, and wish to deceive us again, he has a fine excuse and opportunity at hand in our tardy proceedings concerning the execution of this treaty; and he might still spend in war the very sums he has amassed for the ransom of his children." This money, as he (Poupet) is informed, is almost entirely collected; at any rate, this city's contribution towards it is ready. Were the French king that way inclined he might do much this next spring.
	The terms of the treaty are principally founded on the restitution of the sons of France. The delivery to take place before the 1st of March, but he (Poupet) fancies that the treaty, of which he has no copy at hand, adds or "earlier" (ou plustost) if possible. It might, therefore, be suggested that February is the worst month in the year to bring royal children from Spain to the frontiers of France, to cross the mountains, &c., and that it would be far better to alter the period of such delivery to the end of December next, or the 15th of January [1530] at the latest, when the season is dry and the roads are in a better condition. As to the place of the delivery, Fontarabia, is, in his (Poupet's) opinion, the most convenient for both parties. Should the Emperor adopt any of the above suggestions they might be communicated to the Admiral, who is now going to the Imperial Court, as he says, for the express purpose of promoting the delivery of the princes, and having the place fixed. As it is more than probable that the King and his mother will speak on the subject, he (Poupet) should very much like to receive His Majesty's commands and instructions on this particular point.
	Must not omit to say that on his arrival at this city the Governor (Triulzo) told him that the King had written to Mr. de Clermont, his relative in the Daulphine (Dauphinois), to hold himself in readiness to come here and accompany him (Poupet) in his journey to the Court of France. Clermont has not yet made his appearance and he (Poupet) has stayed here ever since Monday last purchasing wearing apparel and making other preparations for his visit to the King, for which he intends leaving tomorrow whether Mr. de Clermont comes or not.—Lyons, 23rd September 1529.
	Signed: "La Chaulx."
	French. Original, pp. 7½.
24 Sept.	165. Louis de Praët and Miçer Mai to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 848, ff. 91–2. B. M. Add. 28,579, f. 171.	Wrote on the 20th, enclosing Alarcon's and Colonna's letters, and announcing at the same time that nothing had been done here in the Milan affair. Indeed we are astounded to hear the Duke referring to things which have never taken place. If his ambassador negociated at all, certainly it was not with us but with His Holiness.
	Since our last despatch Arezzo has surrendered and the Florentines, if their ambassador here is to be believed, are in great fear. The Archbishop of Capua is gone to the Prince [of Orange] on a mission from the Pope, that he may be present at the expected capitulation of Florence and act accordingly. Letters from the Papal Nuncio at the Imperial Court have been received here. We have been able to learn (traslucir) some of their contents, and therefore consider it our duty to report. Among other things, the letters say that Sanga is not doing his duty near the Pope, but is, on the contrary, playing his own game to his heart's content. His plans, however, have been discovered at Piacenza, and he ought to be well content that the Emperor does not find fault with the Pope. After hearing this Sanga came to us in despair, protesting that ever since His Holiness' liberation [in December 1527] he had thought or done nothing intentionally against the Emperor's interests. He said he wanted to write to the Nuncio to declare himself openly and not speak in these ambiguous terms, for he said to us: "I really cannot understand what the man means." Our opinion is, that unless Sanga is positively guilty of what they accuse him, it is prudent to dissemble (entretenerle), because he is alone (solo) on His Holiness' side. The same letter intimates that Your Majesty is not well pleased with the Bishop of Verona (Giberto), but as we have not been officially informed of it, nor do we know what the cause may be, we are at a loss how to answer or take measures as we would otherwise have done for the Imperial service.
	The same Nuncio writes to his own secretary here that Your Imperial Majesty is also somewhat displeased with Andrea Doria and begins already to entertain suspicions, in consequence of which the Pope had actually asked him to make out a brief ordering him to repair immediately to the Emperor's presence, and that the brief was being made out accordingly, &c. Now as Your Majesty has never sent us any orders in that sense, nor has the Pope said a word to us about it, we really know not what to think, but do not hesitate to remind Your Majesty, as we have already done at other times, that the mutual friendship and attachment of Andrea and of His Holiness is of such a nature that we deem it impossible for one of them to know of a thing which the other does not know, which in our opinion is sufficient warning for Your Majesty or your ministers never to speak before the agents and friends of one in disparagement of the other, for as they have no secrets from one another the information would be communicated immediately.
	The Nuncio is an honourable man, and has always behaved as such in Your Majesty's service, but he owes the Datary a grudge and is evidently aiming at the purple (emulacion al Cardinalato). It is well that Your Majesty should bear this in mind (advertido), the better to judge what he may say against [Sanga].
	As we reported in our last, the Pope is still determined to go to Bologna, a move which these Romans, both cardinals and laymen, dislike very much, because instead of the Imperial courtiers coming here to spend their money they will be obliged to go elsewhere where the Emperor is, and incur great expense in consequence.
	Moron left yesterday for the Prince's camp. He had before leaving a long audience from the Pope, about what we are unable to say, unless the Milan affair was discussed. This seems very probable, for Moron pretends that he can, whenever he likes, recall the Duke to his senses and make him accept the Emperor's offers. We very much doubt, however, his being able to accomplish this, for just at this moment the Duke Francesco is surrounded by councillors and people who dislike Moron excessively and fear his regaining his influence over him.
	Bulls concerning the "Quarta," Crusade, and Empress.
	Your Majesty's letter was duly placed in the Pope's hands. He told us again that he intends leaving for Bologna on the 4th or 6th of October at the latest, so as to arrive in that city four or five days before All Souls, and that if the news of the surrender of Florence come in the mean time he may possibly anticipate his departure.
	Respecting Your Imperial Majesty's wish that the kings of France and England should be invited to assist there by delegation, and send their respective ambassadors to witness the coronation, the Pope, as a wise and prudent man (como hombre prevenido), has already done so in writing. He now intends sending nuncios for that express purpose, and there is some talk about sending the Bishop of Como (Triulzo) and perhaps Gregorio Casale too, who now resides here as English ambassador.
	The Pope is exceedingly angry at the Duke Francesco having taken as a pretence for refusing Your Majesty's handsome terms that an agreement had been concluded here. It is a most atrocious lie as Your Majesty knows. His secretary is soon expected. We shall see what excuse he gives the Pope when he is charged with it.
	News has just arrived of the taking of Firenzuola and that the enemy has abandoned Pistoya in consequence. (fn. n29) —Rome, 24th September 1529.
	Signed: "Loys de Praët.—Mai."
	Addressed; "Sacræ Ces. Cath. M^ti."
	Spanish. Original. pp. 4.
24 Sept.	166. Martin de Salinas to Ferdinand, King of Bohemia.
M. Re. Ac. dc Hist. c. 71, f. 218 v^o.	Wrote on the 6th inst., and reported from the Emperor's landing [at Genoa] until his arrival at this city [Piacenza]. On that very day Count Noguerol (Nogarolo?) received a despatch in cipher, which could not be answered immediately as the instructions were being deciphered at Trent, and came only two days after. Nevertheless both he (Salinas) and Count Noguerol have lost no time in speaking to the Emperor about its contents, and requesting that 3,000 Spanish hackbutiers at least should be dispatched at once to the assistance of Germany. All their efforts, however, have been unavailing both with the Emperor and with his Council, for the reasons that Noguerol himself will fully explain in his separate despatch. Really thinks that were His Highness to know the state of affairs in Italy, he would insist less upon the succour being sent at the present juncture, for the Venetians, knowing the reason why the Emperor cannot, if he wished, give the help demanded, are so reluctant that instead of asking for peace, they presume that they will be invited (rogados) to make it, and are secretly trying to persuade other powers [in Italy] to keep up the game. The Emperor, therefore, has been obliged so to divide his forces that he cannot possibly detach any of them now. On the receipt of the royal letter of the 28th August, he (Salinas) saw the Emperor again; he could obtain nothing from him save the assurance that were the Venetians to persevere in their purpose, he (the Emperor) is determined to make war upon them, persuaded, as he is, that they are the sole cause of these Italian troubles, and that it is they who have brought the Turk into Europe. Thus an attack upon the Venetians might after all be more efficient than the succour which His Highness desires.
	His Highness must consider that unless Italy be entirely pacified, the Emperor cannot dispose of any part of his forces. These are at the present time scattered over various parts of the country, so that their concentration upon one given point would take many weeks. First, we have the Prince of Orange with his Germans,—not now a considerable body,—part of the Spaniards, the Pope's contingent, and some cavalry, all marching against the Florentines, who are likely to give trouble. Then Alarcon is at Naples with the rest of the Spaniards and some Italian bands, trying to recover the fortified places on the coast still held by the Venetians, and the fleet has already sailed to keep them (fn. n30) company; it consists of 15 galleys of Andrea Doria, three of Spain, and the Sicilian squadron, in all 30. Those which the Emperor brought from Spain have been sent back to be disarmed as unfit for service, and only eight of them are kept for the defence of this coast. Firmly believes that the departure of the Imperial fleet for those parts may after all better serve His Highness' plans than any land force detached against the Turk.
	The Emperor is now treating with the Duke Francesco [Sforza], but the Venetians are likely to do their utmost to prevent his making his peace. If so the Emperor will be obliged to occupy the whole of his estate, whilst he attacks Venice with the rest of his forces.
	The above considerations are weighty enough to prevent the Emperor from detaching any of his forces, for although his present army is very numerous, yet it is spread over so many provinces and districts, that if reduced it could not successfully cope with the enemy. His Highness must not imagine that because the Pope and the French have already made their peace all is quiet in Italy.—Piacenza, 24th September 1529.
	Spanish. Original draft, pp. 2.
24 Sept.	167. The Same to the Same.
M. Re. Ac. d. Hist. c. 71, f. 219 v^o.	Such is the Emperor's desire of freeing himself so as to be able to march to His Highness' assistance, that all hopes of an agreement with the Duke [Francesco] having vanished, he has ordered his artillery train to go to Pavia. The Duke shewed at first some inclination to treat, but the Venetians interfered and persuaded him to resist. However this may be, he (Salinas) cannot help thinking that the failure of the negociations is principally owing to certain conversations (platicas) of the Imperial ambassadors with the Pope at Rome, for Miçer Andrea del Burgo has lately forwarded the enclosed report of what was said there [at Rome] respecting the duchy of Milan. Cannot say whether Miçer Andrea had instructions or mandate from His Highness to that effect; all he can say is that he should have preferred that Burgo had not spoken or even thought of the business at Rome, (fn. n31) because the terms proposed are evidently too low, for if the whole of the estate is to remain as before, in the hands of the Duke [Francesco Sforza], it is quite evident that the ambassador did not ask for sufficient compensation; and yet he (Salinas) has frequently been told by councillors and secretaries and courtiers about the Emperor's Court that His Highness would not be forgotten in the present arrangement of the Duchy, although it must be said that in the condition the Duchy now is, and likely to remain in future, it is by no means a desirable object. This is the reason why the Emperor's answer has been delayed, and the Count [Noguerol] has not returned home.
	On the 18th inst., at five in the evening, His Highness' letters dated Lintz the 8th inst., and announcing the departure of Luis de Tassis, were duly received, but up to the present that courier has not made his appearance, nor are there any tidings of him. The Emperor is really very much concerned at the danger and trouble in which His Highness is, but cannot offer for the time greater help than that proposed in his letter.—Piacenza, 24th September 1529.
	Spanish. Original draft, pp. 4½.