House of Lords Journal Volume 16: 9 June 1701

DIE Lunæ, 9 Junii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Sir Charles Barrington's Bill.

The Lord Lawarr reported from the Lords Committees, the Bill, intituled, "An Act to enable Sir Charles Barrington Baronet to settle a Jointure, and make Provision for his Younger Children," as fit to pass, without any Amendment.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to enable Sir Charles Barrington Baronet to settle a Jointure, and make Provision for his Younger Children."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

ORDERED, That the Commons have Notice, that the Lords have agreed to the said Bill without any Amendment.

Deale fresh Water Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Davers and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for furnishing the Town of New Deale with fresh Water;" and to acquaint this House, that the Commons have agreed to their Lordships Amendments made to the said Bill.

Messages from H. C. to return Bennet's Charity Bill, and Sir John Dillon's Bill for a Divorce.

Also, a Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Shackerly and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for vesting the Estate of Thomas Bennet late, of Newton cum Larton, in the County of Chester, in Trustees, for the Use of the Poor of West Kirby, pursuant to the Will of the said Thomas Bennet;" and to acquaint this House, that they have agreed to the same, with some Amendments, whereunto they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

Also, a Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Mompesson and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for dissolving the Marriage of Sir John Dillon with Mary Boyle, and for other Purposes therein mentioned;" and to acquaint this House, that they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

Nodes's Bill.

The Lord North reported from the Lords Committees, the Bill, intituled, "An Act for vesting a Messuage and Lands in Stevenage, in the County of Hertford, the Estate of Richard Nodes, in Trustees, to be sold, for making a Provision for his Wife and Children, equal to the Provision secured to them out of the said Estate," as fit to pass, without any Amendment.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for vesting a Messuage and Lands in Stevenage, in the County of Hertford, the Estate of Richard Nodes, in Trustees, to be sold, for making a Provision for his Wife and Children, equal to the Provision secured to them out of the said Estate."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

ORDERED, That the Commons have Notice, that the Lords have agreed to the said Bill, without any Amendment.

Barkstead's Bill.

The Earl of Stamford reported from the Lords Committees, the Bill, intituled, "An Act for naturalizing Jane Barkstead Widow; and vesting several Mortgages and Securities in her, to enable her to convey or assign the same," as fit to pass, without any Amendment.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for naturalizing Jane Barkstead Widow; and vesting several Mortgages and Securities in her, to enable her to convey or assign the same."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

ORDERED, That the Commons have Notice, That the Lords have agreed to the said Bill, without any Amendment.

Message to H. C. in Answer to theirs concerning the Impeachments depending.

The Earl of Stamford reported from the Lords Committees (appointed to consider of the Manner of Proceedings on Impeachments), what was drawn by them, to be sent to the Commons, in Answer to their Message of the Fifth Instant.

Which was read, amended, and agreed to, as follows; (videlicet,)

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Richard Holford and Mr. Gery:

To acquaint them, "That, in Answer to the Message of the House of Commons of the Fourth Instant, the Lords say, by their Message sent on the Third, wherein they declare themselves ready to proceed to the Trial of any of the impeached Lords whom the Commons should be first ready to begin with, they have given a full Proof of their Willingness to comply with the Commons in any Thing which may appear reasonable, in order to the speedy determining of the Impeachments now depending: And therefore (as the Lords conceive) the Commons had no Occasion to begin any Dispute on that Head; so their Lordships are careful to decline entering into a Controversy, which seems to them to be of no Use at present.

"The Lords think themselves obliged to assert their undoubted Right to appoint a Day for the Trial of any Impeachment depending before them, if they see good Cause for it, without any previous Signification from the Commons of their being ready to proceed; which Right is warranted by many Precedents, as well as consonant to Justice and Reason: And their Lordships, according to the Example of their Ancestors, will always use that Right, with a Regard to the equal and impartial Administration of Justice, and with a due Care to prevent unreasonable Delays.

"This being the Case, the Lords cannot but wonder that the Commons, without any Foundation for it, should make Use of Expressions, which, as their Lordships conceive, have never been used before by One House of Parliament to another; and which, if the like were returned, must necessarily destroy all good Correspondence between the Two Houses.

"The last Part of the Commons Message being in Effect a Repetition only of their former of the One and Thirtieth of May, to which the Lords have already returned a full Answer; their Lordships think it not requisite to say more, than that they cannot apprehend with what Colour their calling upon the House of Commons to send up Articles against the Two Lords, whom the Commons have so long since impeached in general Terms, can be said to tend to the Delay of Justice; and therefore, as the Lords think the Commons ought to have forborn that Reflection; so their Lordships, in saying no more upon the Occasion of this Message of the Commons, think they have given a convincing Proof of their Moderation, and of their sincere Desire of preserving a good Correspondence between the Two Houses, which is so necessary for the public Security, as well as doing Right upon the Impeachments."

Committee of both Houses, Precedents of their being desired, &c. for adjusting Matters relative to Impeachments, &c.

The Earl of Stamford also reported from the Lords Committees (appointed to consider of the Manner of Proceedings on Impeachments) what Precedents they have found, in Pursuance of the Order of the Seventh Instant.

Which are as follow; (videlicet,)

"21th May, 1614. A Message from the Commons, to desire a Conference, upon the Point of Impositions.

"24. May. The Question being proposed, Whether this House shall meet with the Lower House, and give them Hearing, touching the Point of Impositions.

"The greater Number of the Lords answered, Not Content.

"26 May. A Message to the Commons, That the Lords are, and always will be, ready and willing to hold a loving and mutual Correspondence with them; but their Lordships, having entered into a grave and serious Consideration, as well of the Matter itself, as of divers incident and necessary Circumstances, do not think it convenient to enter into any Conference of this Cause concerning the Point of Impositions at this Time."

"1st February, 1666. A Message from the Commons, to desire a Conference, touching the Manner of Proceedings upon the Impeachment against the Lord Viscount Mordant.

"The Lords answer, That they will send Answer by Messengers of their own.

"Then a Committee was appointed, to consider, Whether ever the Commons desired any Conferences concerning the Manner of Proceedings upon Judicature before their Lordships.

"4th February. After Report of the Conference so had, the Lords resolved, To let the Commons know, at a Conference, That they are resolved, that their former Answer, given them the Eight and Twentieth of January, and confirmed the One and Thirtieth of the same Month, shall stand.

"31th January. Which Answer was, That they judge it a Right inherent in every Court, to order and direct such Circumstances and Matters of Form, that can have no Influence to the Prejudice of Justice, in such Way as they shall judge fit, where the same are not settled otherwise by any positive Rule.

"4th February, Post Meridiem. A Conference was accordingly had, at the Desire of the Lords.

"5th February. A Message from the Commons, to desire a Free Conference, upon the Subject-matter of the last Conference.

"The Answer returned was, That the Lords have already stated the Manner of Proceedings in the Impeachment of the Lord Mordant, and have declared it in their last Conference; and in that Conference gave the House of Commons Notice, that they were ready to proceed this Morning in that Business.

"They adhere to their former Resolution; and are ready to proceed in the Trial.

"6th February. A Message from the Commons, to desire a Conference, upon the last mentioned Answer.

"7th February. The Lords gave the Conference desired; whereat the Commons acquainted their Lordships, That Conferences and Free Conferences, when desired, are essential to the Proceedings of Parliament, the only Means to preserve the good Correspondence between the Two Houses; and the Dental thereof destructive to the Proceedings of Parliament, and unprecedented.

"Eodem Die. A Free Conference was had, at the Desire of the Lords, concerning the Subject-matter of the last Conference; whereat the Managers were to let the Commons know, That their Lordships desire not this Conference in Reference to the Free Conference lately desired by them, but in relation to the Assertion of the Commons in their last Conference, which their Lordships can no Way allow, and therefore commanded the Lords that are to manage this Free Conference, as to justify the Proceedings of their Lordships, so to make it appear to the Commons, that what they have done is neither destructive to the Proceedings of Parliament, nor unprecedented.

"27th May, 1675. The Lords did not agree to a Conference desired by the Commons on the One and Twentieth, because it was desired upon the Answer sent by the Lords on the Seventeenth Instant, wherein the whole Matter concerns the Judicature of the Lords, on which they can admit no Debate, nor grant any Conference; but the Lords agree to a Conference desired concerning the Privileges of the Commons, always provided nothing be offered thereat that may concern their Lordships Judicature."

"6th May, 1679. A Message to the Commons, to acquaint them, that the Lords have appointed to try the Five Lords on the Thirteenth Instant.

"8th May, Post Meridiem. A Message from the Commons, to desire a Conference, concerning the Matter of their Lordships Message, concerning the Trial of the Lords in The Tower: And a Conference was had thereupon.

"At the Conference, the Commons proposed to have a Committee of both Houses nominated, to consider the proper Ways of Proceedings upon Impeachments: And, upon the Question, it was carried, not to agree with the Commons in this Proposal.

"9th May. A Message to the Commons, for a Conference, upon the Subject-matter of the last Conference; which was had: And, at the Conference, the Lords told the Commons, That they did not agree to the nominating a Committee of both Houses, because they do not think it conformable to the Rules and Orders of Proceedings of this Court; which is, and ever must be, tender in Matters relating to Judicature.

"10th May. A Message from the Commons, for a Conference, &c.; which was had: And the Commons told the Lords, That, Things standing thus, they cannot proceed to the Trials of the Lords, before the Method of Proceedings be adjusted between the Two Houses.

"11th May. A Message to the Commons, for a Conference, &c.: which was had: And the Lords asked the Commons, What were the Methods of Proceedings they would confer about? The Commons answer, They had no Directions from their House concerning the same.

"A Message from the Commons, for a Free Conference; which was had: And, upon the Report of it, the Lords appointed a Committee, to meet with a Committee of the House of Commons, to consider of Propositions and Circumstances, in Reference to the Trials of the Five Lords in The Tower; and a Message sent to the Commons, to let them know it.

"12th May. A Report from the Committee of both Houses, That (inter aiia) the Commons propose a longer Day for the Trial of the Lords: Whereupon the Lords ordered their Trials to be put off till farther Order.

"16th May. The Lords appointed a Day for the Trial of the Five Lords.

"19th May. The Commons tell the Lords, That, when the Methods of Proceedings are adjusted, their House will be ready to proceed upon the Trial of the Earl of Danby, against whom they have already demanded Judgement; and afterwards to the Trial of the Five Lords; and proposed several Difficulties, in respect of the Bishops being present at the Trial of the Earl of Danby. They say further, That the Lords seem to lay the Stop at the Commons Door, by naming a Day; which, they conceive, ought not to have been appointed before the Methods be considered: That the Lords may as well make the Judges Part of their Court as the Bishops in this Point: The Commons will give no Disturbance to the ancient Judicature, and they conceive they have a Right to know before what Court they shall appear.

"20th May. Upon Debate of the Report from the Committee of both Houses, the Lords appoint a Day for the Trial of the Five Lords.

"22th May. The Lords send a Message to the House of Commons, to acquaint them, that the Lords have appointed a Day for Trial of the Five Lords."

Lords will not appoint a Committee to meet with one of H. C. for adjusting Matters relative to the Impeachments depending:

Then, it being moved, "To have a Conference with the Commons, to let them know, that the Lords do not agree to a Committee of both Houses, in relation to the Trials of the impeached Lords;" and Debate thereupon:

This Question was put, "Whether a Committee of this House shall be appointed, to meet with a Committee of the House of Commons, in relation to the Proceedings upon the Impeachments?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Protest against that Resolution.

"Dissentient.

"Because the Lords, in the Year One Thousand Six Hundred Seventy-nine, consented to a Committee of Lords and Commons, for regulating the Trials of the Popish Lords; and therefore the refusing to comply with the Commons in the same Request, at this Time, will be (in our Opinion) a great Obstacle to the Trials of the impeached Lords.

"Somerset.
Normanby.
Derby.
Denbigh.
Rochester.
Abingdon.
Peterborow.
Weymouth.
Nottingham.
Lawarr.
H. London.
Guilford.
Dartmouth.
Torrington.
Jonat. Exon.
Howard.
Oxford.
Carnarvon.
Godolphin.
Marlborough.
Lexington."

Committee of Impeachments to meet.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords Committees appointed to consider of the Manner of Proceedings on Impeachments do meet To-morrow, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; and draw Reasons, to be given at a Conference with the House of Commons, why their Lordships cannot agree that a Committee of both Houses be nominated, to consider of the Methods of Proceedings on Impeachments.

L. Somers's Trial appointed:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That Friday the Thirteenth Day of this Instant June is hereby appointed for the Trial of John Lord Sommers, in Westminster Hall, upon the Articles brought up against him by the House of Commons, whereby he stands charged with several high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Message to H. C. with Notice of it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Richard Holford and Mr. Gery:

To let the Commons know, the Lords have appointed Friday next, for the Trial of John Lord Sommers, upon the Impeachment against him.

Apsley's Bill.

The Lord Lawarr reported from the Lords Committees, the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the better Performance of the last Will of Henry Apsley Esquire, deceased," as fit to pass, without any Amendment.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the better Performance of the last Will of Henry Apsley Esquire, deceased."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

ORDERED, The Commons have Notice, that the Lords have agreed to the said Bill, without any Amendment.

Bigg's Petition:

Upon reading the Petition of Richard Bigg; "That his Committee may sit sooner than now ordered:"

Rejected.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Petition shall be, and is hereby, rejected.

Wharton versus Sir Joseph Tiley.

After hearing Counsel this Day, upon the Petition of William Wharton and Eunuce his Wife; praying, "That Sir Joseph Tiley and his Wife may pay the Petitioner and his Wife full Costs of the last Trial at Bar; which is what the Petitioner did to Sir Joseph Tiley, when they had a new Trial;" as also Counsel for Sir Joseph Tiley and his Wife:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the following Words be added to the Judgement of this House of the One and Thirtieth of May last; (videlicet,)

["That the Petitioner Wharton shall have Nisi Prius Costs paid him for the last Trial in the King's Bench; and if, upon the new Trial, a Verdict shall pass against William Wharton and his Wife, they shall pay Nisi Prius Costs; but, if the Verdict shall pass against Sir Joseph Tiley and his Wife, then they shall pay full Costs of a Trial at Bar."]

E. of Carlisle's Patent, as E. Marshal.

The Earl of Carlisle acquainted the House, "That His Majesty had appointed him to be Earl Marshal during the Minority of the Duke of Norfolke; and that his Patent was at the Door."

Then his Patent was sent for in, and read.

It bears Date Vicesimo Secundo Die Maii, Vicesimo Tertio Gulielmi Tertii.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Martis, (videlicet,) decimum diem instantis Junii, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.