House of Lords Journal Volume 14: 31 May 1689

DIE Veneris, 31 die Maii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Marq. de Halyfax Speaker pro Tempore.

Tanned Leather, Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for explaining Part of an Act made in the First Year of King James the First, concerning tanned Leather; and for enabling the Curriers to buy tanned Leather, and sell it again curried."

ORDERED, That the Consideration of this Bill is committed to these Lords following:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them; to meet To-morrow, at Nine of the Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings.

Astley et al, Nat. Bill.

The Earl of Rochester reported, "That the Committee have considered the Bill for Naturalization of Anne Astley and others, and thinks it fit to pass as it is."

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for Naturalization of Anne Astley and others."

The Question being put, "Whether this Bill shall pass for a Law?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message from H. C. with a Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Cristie and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for reviving Two former Acts, for exporting of Leather;" to which the Commons desire the Concurrence of this House.

The Commons being ready to give a Free Conference, the former Managers were appointed to manage this.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Free Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference on the additional Poll Bill.

The Earl of Rochester reported, "That the Commons, at the Free Conference, do alledge, that the admitting of their Lordships Amendment to the Bill for the additional Poll Bill, will in a Manner repeal the Bill for the Tax; and therefore do not agree to their Lordships Amendment."

Lords adhere to their Amendments.

Upon Consideration hereof, it is ORDERED, That this House adheres to their Amendments; and that this Resolution be signified, at a Free Conference.

Message to H. C. for a Free Conference on this Subject.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Miles Cooke and Mr. Metwin:

To desire a present Free Conference, in the Painted Chamber, touching the Matter of the last Free Conference.

The Managers did withdraw, to consider of what Reasons they were to offer to the Commons, for their Lordships adhering.

The Messengers returned with Answer:

Answer.

That the House of Commons will give a Free Conference, as is desired.

Then the House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Free Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

And the Earl of Rochester reported, "That the Managers have met with the Commons at the Free Conference, and have left the Bill with the Commons."

Messages from H. C. that the do not agree to the Lords Amendments.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rowland Gwin and others:

To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons do adhere to disagree with their Lordships Alteration in the additional Poll Bill.

Titus Oates's Writs of Error.

The Lords having heard the Opinion of all the Judges concerning the illegality of the Two Judgements against Titus Oates, upon the Point of Perjury; for which he hath brought his Writs of Error into this House, to have them reversed:

The House, upon Consideration, and after long Debate, had this main Question proposed,

Judgements against him for Perjury, not to be reversed.

"Whether to reverse the Two Judgements given below against Titus Oates, in relation to the Two Perjuries?"

The previous Question was put, "Whether this Question shall be now put?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Then the main Question was put, "Whether this Question shall be now put?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Then the main Question was put, "Whether to reverse the Two Judgements given below against Titus Oates, in relation to the Two Perjuries?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Protests against this Resolution.

Leave was given to such Lords as will, to enter their Dissents; and accordingly these Lords following do enter their Dissents, in these Reasons ensuing:

"1st. For that the King's Bench, being a Temporal Court, made it Part of the Judgement, That Titus Oates, being a Clerk, should, for his said Perjuries, be divested of his Canonical and Priestly Habit, and to continue divested all his Life; which is a Matter wholly out of their Power, belonging to the Ecclesiastical Courts only.

"2. For that the said Judgements are barbarous, inhuman, and unchristian; and there (fn. 1) is no Precedents to warrant the Punishments of whipping and committing to Prison for Life, for the Crime of Perjury; which yet were but Part of the Punishments inflicted upon him.

"3. For that the particular Matters upon which the Indictments were found, were the Points objected against Mr. Titus Oates's Testimony in several of the Trials, in which he was allowed to be a good and credible Witness, though testified against him by most of the same Persons, who witnessed against him upon those Indictments.

"4. For that this will be an Encouragement and Allowance for giving the like cruel, barbarous, and illegal Judgements hereafter, unless this Judgement be reversed.

"5. Because Sir John Holt, Sir Henry Pollexsen, the Two Chief Justices, and Sir Robert Atkins Chief Baron, with Six Judges more (being all that were then present), for these and many other Reasons, did, before us, solemnly deliver their Opinions, and unanimously declare, That the said Judgements were contrary to Law and ancient Practice, and therefore erroneous, and ought to be reversed.

"6. Because it is contrary to the Declaration on the Twelfth of February last, which was ordered, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons then assembled, and by their Declaration engrossed in Parchment, and enrolled among the Records of Parliament, and recorded in Chancery; whereby it doth appear, that excessive Bail ought not to be required, nor excessive Fines imposed, nor cruel nor unusual Punishments inflicted.

"Bolton.
Maclesfeld.
J. Bridgewater.
Stamford.
Oxford.
Bolingbrooke.
Bathe.
Herbert.
Grey.
Vaughan.
Newport.
Cornwallis.
R. Eure.
P. Wharton."

Oates versus Regem, in Error: Judgements affirmed.

Whereas, by virtue of Their Majesties Writ of Error, returnable into the House of Peers in Parliament assembled, a Record of the Court of King's Bench was brought into this Court, on the Fourth of April, 1689, with a Transcript thereof, wherein Judgement is entered, for and on the Behalf of the late King James the Second, against Tytus Oates Clerk, upon a Judgement for Perjury; upon which Writ Errors being assigned by the said Tytus Otes, and Issue joined by Sir Henry Polexphen Their Majesties Attorney General; and after hearing Counsel for the said Tytus Otes (no Counsel appearing for Their Majesties) on the 26 of April last past:

After due Consideration had of what was offered by Counsel thereupon, it is this Day ORDERED and Adjudged, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Judgement given on His late Majesty's Behalf against the said Tytus Otes be, and is hereby, affirmed; and that the Transcript of the said Record, wherein Judgement is entered as aforesaid, be remitted.

The Tenor of which Judgement follows, to be affixed to the Record, to be sent back:

"Postea, scilicet, 4° Die Aprilis, Anno Regni Domini Will'i et Dominæ Mariæ, nunc Regis et Reginæ Angliæ, &c. Primo, Transcript. Record. et Process. præd. inter Partes præd. cum omnibus ea tangen. Pretextu cujusdam Brevis de Errore corrigend. per præsat. Titum Oates in Præmiss. prosecut. dicto Domino Regi et Reginæ, in præsenti Parliamento, a præd. Cur. dicti Domini Regis et Dominæ Reginæ hic transmiss. fuit; præd. Titus, in eadem Curia Parliamenti comparens, diversas Causas et Materias pro Erroribus in Record. et Process. præd. pro Revocatione et Adnullatione Judicii præd. assignavit; et postea, scilicet, 31° Die Maii, Anno dict. Domini Regis et Dominæ Reginæ supradict. in præsenti Curia Parliamenti præd. visis et per Curiam ibidem diligenter examinat. et plenius intellect. tam Record. et Process. præd. ac Judicio super eisdem reddit. quam præd. Error. superius assignat. pro eo quod videtur Cur. Parliamenti præd. quod Record. ill. in nullo vitiosum aut defectiv. existit, et quod in Recordo ill. in nullo fuit Errat. ideo adtunc et ibidem consideratum est per eandem Cur. Parliamenti præd. quod Judic. præd. in omnibus affirmetur, et in omni suo Robore stet et Effectu."

Whereas, by virtue of Their Majesties Writ of Error, returnable into the House of Peers in Parliament assembled, a Record of the Court of King's Bench was brought into this Court, on the 4th Day of April, 1689, with the Transcript thereof, wherein Judgement is entered, for and on the Behalf of the late King James the IId, against Titus Oates Clerk, upon a Judgement for Perjury; upon which Writ, Errors being assigned by the said Titus Oates, and Issue joined by Sir Henry Pollexsen Their Majesties Attorney General; and after hearing Counsel for the said Titus Oates, (no Counsel appearing for Their Majesties) on the 26th of April last past:

After due Consideration had of what was offered by Counsel thereupon, it is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Judgement given on His late Majesty's Behalf against the said Titus Oates be, and is hereby, affirmed; and that the Transcript of the said Record, wherein Judgement is entered as aforesaid, be remitted.

The Tenor of which Judgement, to be affixed to the Record to be sent back, follows:

"Postea, scilicet, 4° Die Aprilis, Anno Regni Domini Gulielmi et Dominæ Mariæ, nunc Regis et Reginæ Angliæ, &c. Primo, Transcript. Record. et Process. præd. cum omnibus ea tangen. Prætextu cujusdam Brevis de Error. corrigen. per præfat. Titum Oates in Præmiss. prosecut. dicto Domino Regi et Reginæ, in præsenti Parliamento, a prædicta Curia dicti Domini Regis et Reginæ, hic transmiss. suit; præd. Titus, in eadem Cur. Parliamenti comparens, diversas Causas et Materias pro Erroribus in Record. et Process. præd. pro Revocatione et Adnullatione Judicii præd. assignavit; et postea, scilicet, 31° Die Maii, Anno dicti Domini Regis et Dominæ Reginæ supradict. in præsenti Curia Parliamenti præd. visis et per Cur. ibidem diligenter examinatis et plenius intellectis, tam Record. et Process. præd. ac Judicio super eisdem reddit. quam præd. Error. superius assign. pro eo quod videtur Curiæ Parliamenti præd. quod Record. illud in nullo vitiosum aut defectivum existit, et quod in Record. illo in nullo fuit Errat. ideo ad tunc et ibidem consideratum est per eandem Curiam Parliamenti præd. quod Judic. præed. in omnibus affirmetur, et in omni suo Robore stet et Effectu."

To preach on the Fast.

ORDERED, That the Lords the Bishops be, and are hereby, desired to appoint One of their Bench to preach before this House on Wednesday next, being appointed by Their Majesties Proclamation for a general Fast.

Sir C. Philipson versus Copley & al.

The House being moved, "That a Day of Hearing may be appointed, in the Cause wherein Sir Christopher Philipson is Plaintiff, and John Copley and others Defendants:"

It is ORDERED, That this House will hear the said Cause, by Counsel on both Sides, at the Bar, on Friday the 7th Day of June next, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; whereof the said Sir Christopher Philipson is to cause Notice to be given to the said John Copley and others, Defendants.

Pilkington versus Bolsworth, in Error.

ORDERED, That this House will hear the Errors argued, by Counsel on both Sides, at the Bar, on Monday next, being the Third Day of June, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon, wherein Sir Thomas Pilkington is Plaintiff, and Edmond Bolesworth is Defendant.

Adjourn.

Marq. de Halyfax, Orator Procerum pro Tempore, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Sabbati, videlicet, primum diem Junii, 1689, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernenti bus.