House of Lords Journal Volume 13: 28 October 1680

DIE Jovis, 28 die Octobris.

REX.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Bp. of Exon takes the Oaths.

This Day Thomas Lord Bishop of Exon took the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, and made and subscribed the Declaration, in Pursuance of the Act for the more effectual preserving the King's Person and Government, by disabling Papists from sitting in either House of Parliament.

De Faria's Information concerning the Plot.

Whereas Francisco de Faria was directed to put his Narrative into Writing, which he made on Tuesday last, concerning the Discovery of the horrid Plot; which he accordingly having done:

It being shewed to him, and demanded, "Whether he did own that Affidavit?" He upon his Oath did acknowledge the same to be true; and confessed it to be subscribed with his own Hand-writing.

The Contents of which Information follows:

"Midd. et Westm. ss. The Information of Francisco de Faria, born in America, Son of John Faria, a Jew, of St. Gyles in the Fields, Gentleman, taken upon Oath, before me Edmond Warcupp Esquire, One of His Majesty's Justices of the Peace in the said City and County, in the Presence of John Arnold Esquire, by Command of the Right Honourable the Lords Committees for Discovery of the late Popish Plot, this 26th Day of October, 1680.

"This Informant saith, That, being a Limner, in Antwerp in Flanders, in the Year 1675, by the Persuasion of Three of the Sisters of Sir George Wakeman, then in the Nunnery of S'ta Teresia, and of Father Worseley a Jesuit, he became a Roman Catholic, and often communicated at his Hands; and the said Worseley then persuaded this Informant to come into England, and he would make this Informant happy; and then gave this Informant Thirty-five Pistoles in Gold to bear this Informant's Charges for England: But this Informant did not immediately follow him to England; but took up Arms, and was a Captain Lieutenant under Colonel Montgomery, in the Prince of Orange's Service, where he practised to make and throw Hand Granadoes, and grew to some Note for that Service. And in the Year 1678, this Informant, being in England, and well versed in Seven or Eight Languages, was preferred to be Interpreter and Secretary of Languages to Jaspar Abrude de Frittos, Ambassador in Ordinary from the Prince of Portugall to the King of England; to which Ambassador this Informant had been known for many Years before. And the said Ambassador, among other Things, acquainted this Informant, "that Don Francisco De Melos, the late Ambassador that died here, was much out of Favour with the Prince of Portugall, for that he had indiscreetly pushed on the Promotion of the Catholic Religion before a due Time, and had caused several Popish Books to be printed in English, which had given too great Alarm;" with many other Things relating to the Popish Religion, which he greatly condemned him for. And the said Ambassador, to endear this Informant, did often give him Money, and entrusted him in Affairs of the greatest Moment, and carried this Informant with him to all or most of the great Ministers of State in England, using him for his Interpreter; and employed this Informant to resort to several Persons for an Account of the Orders and Passages in the King's Council; of all which the said Ambassador usually had an Account within an Hour after the Rising of the Council, or any Committees. And the said Ambassador, much about the Time of the Trial of the Five Jesuits, expressing a great Sorrow for the Oppression of the Catholics, did wish that Oates and Bedloe were made away, and then commanded this Informant to go to Mass and Confession; and then told this Informant, "that he might do the Catholic Cause great Service, and might make his own Fortune, if he would join in destroying Oates and Bedloe; and that Fifty Thousand Reals d'Occio should be given for that Service; and that Two sufficient Men should join with this Informant for the killing of Oates and Bedloe." But the said Bedloe being about that Time in Ireland, the said Murder was deferred; and a Report being spread, that Bedloe was dead in Ireland, the said Lord Ambassador said to this Informant, "What a Fool were you! Had you killed him, you had gained that Money which I promised!" But afterwards, understanding that Bedloe was not killed, the said Ambassador renewed his Solicitations to this Informant, to prosecute the Death of Oates and Bedloe; assuring this Informant, "that he would make good his Promise of the said Sum of Money to them who kill them; that he would besides pay this Informant's Debts, and take this Informant with him into Portugall." Upon which Discourse, this Informant took the Boldness to tell the Ambassador, "That the Death of Godfrey had done much Hurt to the Catholic Interest; and he much feared, the Death of Oates and Bedloe would bring greater Hurt." To which the Ambassador replied, "He feared not that; and if Oates and Bedloe and Shaftesbury were out of the Way, the Parliament may come when they please:" Whereupon this Informant asked, "How shall Shaftesbury be killed?" He replied, "Lord Shaftesbury goes often into the Country; and I know you are excellent at Hand Granadoes: You shall throw One of them into Shaftesburye's Coach, which will destroy all that are in the Coach upon the breaking; and you and the Company shall also have Fire Arms to kill, if the other do not full Execution." And the Ambassador added, "That he had provided Two other Persons, Men of Honour, to join with this Informant in that Service;" but named them not, nor the Reward that was to be given for it; and then ordered this Informant to provide a Man, who could speak French and Dutch, to carry a Letter into Flanders. Whereupon this Informant applied himself to one Saulter, who keeps a Sempstress' Shop in Drury Lane, to carry the Letter; who saying he could not go, because he had Horses lame; which this Informant's Servant observing, said, "Sir, if you please, my Husband shall go." But this Informant refused him, as not speaking French, nor acquainted with the Country. And this Informant did, according to the Ambassador's Order, offer the said Saulter Ten Pounds, to undertake the said Journey, because he was acquainted with the Country. And in February last past, the said Ambassador left England, and returned to Portugall, leaving this Informant on a sudden with very little Money, after his many Promises to take this Informant with him into Portugall, and to get the Prince to provide plentifully for him in Portugall. Upon which, this Informant, recollecting the said former Passages, and fearing lest he should be accused, though innocent, went to his own Father, declaring the Offers made to this Informant for killing the Persons aforesaid. But his Father and Mother advised him to throw Ashes upon it; for none that have discovered are secure, because some are of one Mind and some of another. And this Informant then left a Note with his Mother, signifying, "that if he, this Informant, were killed, it must be by the Portugalls; and he would lay his Death to them, because of the Passages aforesaid;" and did the like with Mrs. Mary Seares; who finding this Informant in a very disturbed Condition, observing that in his Frenzy he spake of the Death of Oates, Bedlo, and Shaftesbury, so far prevailed with this Informant, when out of his Frenzy, as to make him relate the whole Story to her; who then persuaded this Informant to keep all secret, lest he brought himself in Troubles. But this Informant hearing, about the 16th of April last, that a certain Gentleman of Note was wounded almost to Death, did recollect that one Wyar had tempted him to bastinado such a kind of Person, which this Informant had before, (videlicet) in the Beginning of March, told unto the said Mrs. Mary Seares; for an Account whereof, this Informant refers himself to his Information taken before Sir Phillip Mathewes, a Copy whereof this Informant delivered this Day to the said Committee of Lords: And this Informant did also repair about the First of May last to the Earl of Clarendon, and in Writing gave the said Earl under his Hand a Paper containing the Matter about the Wounding the said Gentleman; and hopes the said Earl will produce the said Paper, to which this Informant refers; to which this Informant added by Word of Mouth, "that the Earl of Shaftesbury was in Danger of his Life;" to which Earl this Informant repaired, because he was going into Flanders, and feared he might be accused for the Wounding the said Gentleman during his Absence, that that Writing delivered to the Earl of Clarendon might clear his Innocency.

"And this Informant further saith, That the Lady of Abergavenny sent for this Informant into Lyncolne's Inne Fields this last Summer was a Twelvemonth; and then told this Informant, "the Lord Powis would speak with him in The Tower;" to which this Informant answered "he would; but acquainting the said Ambassador therewith, his Excellency forbid him to go; wherewith this Informant also acquainted the said Earl of Clarendon, who seemed to know the Lady Abergavennie, saying, "she was his Neighbour."

"And he further saith, That a certain Person came to the Ambassador, and in this Informant's Presence told the Ambassador, "That one Roberts, Porter to the Water Gate in Somerset House, was apprehended;" upon which this Informant observed the Ambassador to look very pale, and thereupon asked the Ambassador, "My Lord, is he concerned in this Business with me?" To which the Ambassador replied, "He is a Man of Courage, and will undertake any Thing." And in May last this Informant's Brother Abraham de Faria coming to London, this Informant told the Ambassador of it; who asked "if he were a Catholic;" and being answered thereto; his Excellency asked, "Whether he were a Man of Courage?" "Whereto this Informant replied, "We are all well born and bred." And his Lordship replied, "I would have him in this Affair with us, were I sure of him;" and commanded this Informant to send him to him. And this Informant told his said Brother, "the Ambassador would speak with him." But this Informant was not with him when he went to the Ambassador, nor knoweth what passed between them.

"And this Informant further saith, That, upon the Day of Sir George Wakeman's Trial, the Ambassador sent him in his Coach to wait upon the Lord Chief Justice Scroggs, with a Footman, to know when the Ambassador might wait on him. But one of the said Lord Scroggs' Servants brought Answer, "That that Day he could not see the Ambassador, because he was that Day engaged upon Sir George Wakeman's Trial;" which the Ambassador being acquainted with, his Lordship sent this Informant to hear the Trial. And this Informant stood by Sir George all the Trial; and gave him White Paper to write upon, and employed one Mr. Cooper Scrivener in Drury Lane to take in Writing the Trial, and gave him Twenty Shillings for his Pains; which this Informant delivered to the Ambassador, who sent it to Windsor; with which and a Letter this Informant should have gone to Windsor, had he not been very weary. And that Night this Informant was sent to Sir George Wakeman in St. Martin's Lane, to compliment him on the Ambassador's Part; but he was not then come to his Lodging in St. Martin's Lane. So this Informant went next Morning, and found him in Bed with his Wife, and, as this Informant was commanded, told him from the Ambassador, "that his Fortune and Estate was at his Service, and so was his Prince's, and that the Prayers of the good Catholics have prevailed for your Delivery; and we are all bound to Sir Phillip Lloyde for his Generosity to you at the Trial; and we are all bound to pray for him." Whereunto Sir George Wakeman replied, "If it had not been for him, I had not been saved; and so we are all bound to pray for him; and pray return my Lord Thanks for his Offers; and he would wait on his Excellency, to give him Thanks for his Favours, that very Day, but that he must first go to Windsor to wait on the Queen, but on Return would wait on his Excellency." And Sir George took this Informant by the Hand, and said, "I am sorry, Mr. Faria, that I had not the Happiness to speak with you before; for I am informed what a Man you are, and that you would do great Service for the Catholics; but, alas! 'tis now too late." Thence this Informant went again by Order to the Lord Chief Justice Scroggs, to know when my Lord Ambassador should visit him. The Lord Scroggs answered, "The Lord Ambassador should do him great Honour by a Visit; but he was that Day to go out of Town by One of the Clock." Wherewith the Ambassador being acquainted about Twelve in his Sedan, with a Coach of State wherein this Informant was, went to the Lord Scroggs in Chancery Lane. The Compliment was in Portugall, and this Informant interpreted, to this Effect: "My Lord, I come to visit you as you are a Minister of State, and am sent as Ambassador from the Prince of Portugall to the King of Great Brittain, and am directed to visit you, and am likewise to thank you for the Justice you have done Yesterday to Sir George Wakeman." To which the Lord Scroggs answered, "I am placed to do Justice, and will not be curbed by the Vulgar; and so I thank your Prince, and yourself, for the great Honour you have done me."

"And he further saith, That a Portugues came to him when the Earl of Ossory was to go for Tangier, offering this Informant that he might go with the said Earl as his Interpreter, and should have Three Hundred Pounds per Annum for his Pains. But this Informant, reflecting that the Sum offered was too big for that Service, believed this was a Snare to take away his Life. The same Portugues afterwards offered him to go for Flanders, where Monsieur Fonseca might prefer him to the Prince of Parma; but he looked upon that as a Snare also, and therefore refused. And this Informant saith, That, about Six Months ago, he was assaulted by Two unknown Persons with their Swords drawn; but he happily escaped from them. And further faith not.

"Francisco de Faria."

Jurat. super Testament. Antiq. Die et A°. supradict. coram me,

Edmond Warcupp.

"This Examination was taken in the Presence of me,

"J. Arnold."

Informations concerning the E. of Castlemain's being a Romish Priest:

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported, from the Committee for receiving Informations for Discovery of the horrid Plot, "That there were some Persons came to them, and offered to prove that the Earl of Castlemain was a Romish Priest, and had officiated in that Capacity; and the Committee thought it fit they might be heard in the House."

Turbervill's;

The First Witness that was produced was Edward Turbervill; who had his Oath given him at the Bar, and gave his Testimony, "That, about Six Years ago, living at my Lord Powes's, he heard Father Morgan, Confessor to my Lord Powis, say very often at the Table, the Lord Powis being present, "That the Kingdom was in a Fever; but he doubted not but Blood-letting would restore it to its Health." And he likewise heard the Lady Powis say, "That when Religion should be restored (which she hoped would be in a little Time), she would persuade her Lord to give Three Hundred Pounds per Annum for a Foundation to maintain a Nunnery." He likewise said, That in May last was Two Years, he coming to the Lord Powis's Lodgings in Vere-Streete, to desire his Recommendation to the Duke of Yorke, the Lord Powis told him, "That the Earl of Castlemaine was above (meaning the Lord Powis's Chamber), ready to say Mass." Whereupon he went up, and heard and saw the Earl of Castlemaine say Mass, after the Rites and Form of the Church of Rome, with his Priestly Habit on; the Lord Powis and he being present."

De Faria's.

The Second Witness was Francisco de Faria; who, being come to the Bar and sworn, gave his Testimony, and said, "That the Earl of Castlemain came to visit the Portugall Ambassador about One Month before he was put into The Tower, and spoke with the Ambassador in Italian; which the Ambassador understanding very well, he was not made Use of as Interpreter, but withdrew into a Room by the Gallery where they were. The Door being half open, he heard the Ambassador ask the Lord Castlemain, "How long it was since he said Mass?" The Lord Castlemain answered, "Not this Fortnight." The Ambassador asked him, "Why?" The Lord Castlemain answered, "Because I have not a secure Place, where I dare trust myself." And after the Earl of Castlemain was gone, the Ambassador said to him, "Francis, you think you have done a great Matter to turn Catholic: There goes a Man (pointing after the Earl of Castlemain) that hath left all the World, to become a Jesuit." And he talking with Mr. Nathaniell Cox about the said Earl of Castlemain, Mr. Cox told him, "He was at Rome when the said Earl took Orders; and saw him take them there."

Hereupon the House made these ensuing Orders:

E. of Castlemain to be attached.

"Upon Information upon Oath, given to this House, That Roger Earl of Castlemain hath taken Orders of Priesthood at Rome, and hath officiated by virtue of the said Orders here: It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, or his Deputy, shall forthwith attach the Body of the said Earl of Castlemaine, and bring him in safe Custody to the Bar of this House To-morrow Morning; and this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

"To Sir George Charnock Knight, Serjeant at Arms attending this House, his Deputy and Deputies, and to all Mayors, Sheriffs, Justices, Constables, and other His Majesty's Officers Civil and Military, to be aiding and assisting in the Execution hereof."

Cox to attend.

"ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That Mr. Nathaniell Cox be, and is hereby, required to attend this House Tomorrow, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon."

Mary Seares Deposition concerning De Faria;

This Day Mary Seares and Richard Salter appeared, according to Order, to witness what they know of the Design of killing the Earl of Shaftesbury, Doctor Oates, and Bedloe.

Mary Seares, being sworn at the Bar, said, "That Monsieur Francisco de Faria, about the Months of February and March last past, came several Times to his Lodging, very melancholy and disturbed, and sometimes was in frenzical Fits; and in his Sleeps and Frenzy would often cry out upon Murders, and did sometimes call out, naming Oates and Bedloe, and sometimes the Ambassador, and once cried out, "Pity my youthful Days, my Lord." Which Disturbances she observing, did at length prevail with him to tell her what the Matter was. And he then told her, "There was a Design to kill Oates and Bedloe, and Shaftesbury, and a Country Gentleman; but who it was, he could not tell." Whereupon she told him, "There was a great deal of Danger in knowing of it." And that she then persuaded him to say nothing of it, left he fell into Danger; and if he should discover it, he would get no Credit by it, but would be looked upon as a Knave, as Oates and Bedloe were; by the Company he kept. And she said, "she did really fear that he would come by some Mischief whenever he went abroad; and therefore desired him, whenever he staid out late, to send her Word where he was;" which he usually did; and he charged her to declare, if he came by any Mischance, "that it came from the Portugall Ambassador, or some that belonged to him." And she said, That the said Faria told her, "That he would go that Day to the Earl of Clarendon;" but returned without finding him at Home. But another Day he said, "he had been with the Earl of Clarendon, and had told him of some Business;" whereupon she asked him, "Who the Earl of Clarendon was?" And he answered, "A very honest Gentleman, and One of the Parliament." And no Notice being taken of it afterwards, she did admire of the Reason of it. She said, That the said Faria at another Time told her, "That he was to go with the Earl of Ossery to Tangier, and was to have Three Hundred Pounds a Year." And another Time he told her, "That he had another Offer to go to Flanders; and complained to her, that she hindered him from going." But she answered, "'Twas not in Respect to her that he did not go, but because he was afraid of his own Life." And she heard him often say, "What Inconveniences a Man may be drawn into, and yet be innocent!" And she well remembers, that he did once persuade Mr. Salter to carry a Letter; but whether it was to carry a Letter to Flanders, or to carry a Letter for him when he was in Flanders, she cannot well remember. But that Salter refused to go, because his Horse was lame; but had his Horse been well, he would have hired One to look to him; but being lame, he would be spoiled before he returned. And one Mrs. Rogers being present offered that her Husband should go if he pleased. But Mr. Faria refused him; saying, "He knew not the Language nor the Country; and none was so fit as Mr. Salter." Whereupon, she said, she persuaded Mr. Salter's Wife to prevail with her Husband to go; but she refused to let him go."

and Salter's.

Next, Richard Salter was sworn at the Bar; and said, "That Francisco de Faria was, as he heard, Interpreter to the Portugall Ambassador about February last; at which Time, he asked him, "Whether he would carry a Letter into Flanders?" Whereunto he replied, "He might send a Letter by the Post." But Mr. Faria answered, "He must send it by a Messenger Express, and himself was suddenly to follow after; and he chose him to carry the Letter, because he knew the Country, having been there before, and could also speak the Language:" And he proffered him Ten Pounds for the Voyage. But he refused to go, because he had Three Horses upon his Hand, and One of them was lame. But Mr. Faria seemed unsatisfied with this Denial; and added many Prayers and Importunities to his Proffer of Ten Pounds; but could not prevail. And he said, he well remembers that he saw the said Mr. Faria in some Kind of melancholy and frenzical Fit, and threw himself upon the Floor, about the Month of March last past."

Evidence against the E. of Tyrone.

Next, the Earl of Shaftesbury reported further, from the Committee of Examinations, "That several Witnesses have attended that Committee, to give Evidence against the Earl of Tyrone; therefore it is the Opinion of the Committee, That the Earl of Tyrone be sent for over, out of Ireland, that he may be tried here."

The House hereupon made the ensuing Order:

Address for him to be brought over from Ireland.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords with White Staves do attend His Majesty, humbly to desire Him, from this House, "That His Majesty will be pleased to give Order for the safe bringing the Earl of Tyrone, out of the Kingdom of Ireland, into this Kingdom, to answer such Matters as shall be objected against him here; and further, That His Majesty will please to give Order for the transmitting out of Ireland hither attested Copies of all such Evidences and Proceedings as have been taken and had in Ireland against the Earl of Tyrone, or concerning him, at his several Trials, either at the Council Table, the Assizes, the King's Bench, or otherwise, in that Kingdom."

Trial of Peers, for regulating, Bill.

The House was adjourned into a Committee, to consider of the Bill for the better regulating of the Trial of the Peers of England.

The House was resumed.

And the Earl of Huntingdon reported, "That the Committee have gone through the said Bill; wherein they have made some Amendments, which are offered to the Consideration of the House."

Which Amendments, being read Twice, were agreed; and the Bill ordered to be engrossed, with the Amendments.

The Earl of Burlington and the Bishop of Exon are added to the Committee of Examinations; and the Lord Bishop of Exon is added to the Committee for the Journal Book.

Ly. Dacre&al. versus Chute.

Whereas, by Order of the 23th Instant, Dorothy Lady Dacre and her Trustees, and Richard Owen, were appointed to put in their Answer, or respective Answers, to the Petition and Appeal of Chaloner Chute Esquire, depending in this House, on Saturday the 30th Day of this Instant October; it being moved, on the Behalf of Richard Barret Esquire, One of the Persons concerned in the said Appeal, "That he, being very sick, and in the Country, may have longer Time to put in his Answer thereunto; and that the Lady Dacre may likewise have longer Time for putting in her Answer to the same:"

Upon Consideration had thereof, it is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Richard Barret hath hereby Time given him to put in his said Answer, till Thursday the 4th Day of November next, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon; at which Time the said Lady Dacre and other Persons concerned are also to put in their Answers jointly or severally, as they shall think fit.

Chichester Churchwardens versus the Bishop.

Upon reading the Petition of the Churchwardens and Overseers of the Poor of the Parish of St. Peter's the Great, alias the Sub-deanry, in Chichester, and hearing the Lord Bishop of Chichester concerning the same:

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That Richard Farington and George Stamper, who signed the Petition as Churchwardens, be, and are hereby, required to appear at the Bar of this House, on Thursday the Fourth Day of November next, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon.

Combes, Leave to print several Trials.

This House being moved, on the Behalf of John Combe, near The Royal Exchange in London, "That he may have Leave to print and publish the several Trials of Roger Earl of Castlemaine, of Elizabeth Cellier, of Henry Care, and of John Gyles, by him taken carefully in Short Hand:"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said John Combes hath hereby Leave given him, to print and publish the said Trials, so as he first attend the Judges before whom the said Trials were respectively had, as also His Majesty's Attorney General, and such others of Counsel for the King as were employed respectively therein, to the End they may peruse and examine his Copies, to correct them (if Need be), before he print and publish the same.

D. Bucks, Leave to print Trials.

The House being moved, "That the Duke of Buckingham may have Leave to print and publish the Trials lately had between his Grace and Lemar, as also between his Grace and Thomas Blood and Christian:"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Duke of Buckingham may print and publish the same, so as he first cause such Copies as he hath thereof to be presented to the Judges before whom the same were had, as also to His Majesty's Attorney General, and such others of Counsel for the King as were employed therein, to the End they may peruse and examine the said Copies, and correct them (if Need be), before the Publication thereof.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Veneris, 29^um diem instantis Octobris, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.