House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 19 April 1604 (2nd scribe)

Jovis, 19 Die Aprilis, 1604

Statutes.

Mr. Serjeant Snig offereth a Project, in Writing, for the Continuance of Statutes.

Sea-coast Towns.

The Act for Re-edifying of Sea-coast Towns, not to pass now, but to be considered by the Committee, hereafter to be appointed for the Continuance of Statutes.

Statutes.

The Bill for the Continuance of Statutes, not to be brought in by any, but the Committee for Continuance.

The same Committee for Continuance, and reviving, that is for Repeal: - Agreed, upon the Question. Explanation, and some Addition, to be also considered. - Saturday in the Afternoon, in the Parliament House.

Purveyors.

The Petition for the Abuses of the Purveyors, once read, and to be delivered back again to the Committees.

- To Mr. Moore.

The Commissions of Purveyors to be delivered by the Clerk of the Crown to the Committees. This Afternoon for the Purveyors. No Dispute upon this Reading.

Member excuses his Speech.

Mr. Hyde excuseth his sharp Speech Yesterday. - Qui monet, ut facias, quod jam facis ipse, monendo Laudat, et hortatu comprobat acta suo.

Qui digreditur a materia ad personam, the Speaker ought to suppress.

Union with Scotland.

Union. -

Mr. Fuller, - against Scottishmen to be Magistrates with us, nor English amongst the Scottish. -

In H. VIII. a Commission for the Laws and Customs of Wales. The like into Scotland, before an Union. -

Take a Plant in barren Ground, and set it in good Ground, and it will grow, and overgrow.

Sir Edw. Hobby: - 1. Whether we should confer: 2. What should be the Subject of our Conference. -

The Broad Seal ours, with the King. England sits here, and no where else. -

The Queen said, that she would not be angry with any, that would contest with her amongst us.

1. First to hear the Narration of the Cause of their Conference.

2. We not to begin the Overture. -

When the Overture is made, then to know the Lords Inclination. If the Lords be resolved, then no Conference. If the Lords be over-weighty for us, being resolved. It concerns them nearest, therefore they are to make the first Overture. -

Mr. D. Carewe and Mr. D. Hone bring from the Lords,

1. Confirmation of Letters Patents made to Sir Geo. Howme :

2. The Naturalizing of Sir Geo. Howme, Knight:

The Nat. Of the Duke, &c. and Monsieur Dobigny, his Brother.

Sir Fr. Bacon: - The Preparation, Three Parts . 1. The Matter: 2. The Limitation of our Commission: 3. The Disposing and Ordering of our Conference. -

Cherishing the King's Grace. - The King unus pastor, - Unum ovile. - Not to be tangled with Polyg

The Husband of many Wives. -

The Lords to begin: They are the Sentinels, and understand State. - That they may be even with us, and -

Conference of Two Natures. - Treat of any thing, consent to nothing. - Not unfit to debate the Thing itself, because we may be prepared. -

Eight Objections collected:

1. Scotland should yield, and make a Cession of their own Name, and not meet equally. - Normandy: - The Conqueror did not impose the Name, but make a Cession.

That by Conquest, this by Lineage. -

Fatis cede: Follow the Point of God's Providence. - The Name, that hath been the Name of all. - A Remitter to the ancient Name.

2. Christen a Child before it be born. Answ. The Child is born; it wants but cradling, and swadling: In Sovereignty, and Allegiance, is born.

3. That we should lose the ancient Name of England, so famous, and victorious. -

The Britaines held Tack with the Romaynes, in their Greatness.

4. Either the Union will succeed, or not succeed : If not, then the Name is a Shadow. -

Rome was not built on a Day. Light Things go before, the weightiest come after. A Name is volatile, an airy Thing.

5. We know not what they do in Scotland: Shall we invite ?

Answ. The King invites us both.

6. The Precedence of England in Danger. - Spayne united in Name ; in no Danger for Precedency.

7. The Name urge on and inwrap the Matter : - That we should prejudge the Matter. -

Easily holpe in the Penning of the Bill. -

The very Name helps to the Correcting of the Stomachs. -

In the Scriptures, God beginneth no new Thing, but with the Alteration of the Name, by imposing, or adding, - The King's Purpose, to join the Hearts. - Things beaten in the House first. - A Message from the House to the Lords.

Sir Edwyn Sandys: - The weightiest Cause, that ever came, or can come. - Proceed with a leaden Foot. The Matter, in Nature, doth precede the Manner. -

1. Whether the Alteration of the Name be necessary, expedient:

2. What Alteration,

3. At what Time. - Names the Signs of Things. Names but shew the

Unity and Differences of Things. God hath laid the

Foundation: The Name may well be altered. -

Arist. Nomen signum rei. Names not to be rashly imposed, but by wise Men. -

What Manner of Unity: What it is like to be. -

Not cast away the old Name, but superinduced a new.

The King of Spaine: Rex Hispaniarum. - No State in the plural Number. Deus more than Dii. -

The Ground of every Name is the Nature of the Thing. A fourfold Union. In Unity many Degrees. - The same Thing, the Good of the King, and People. - No Man sits as a Person, by himself. The King stands not alone. -

Union in Commerce necessary. - Free Access from one to another. -

We may give a Name, before the Child be born ; but not the Name to a Male, or Female. -

Light Things go before, but the Shadow cometh after the Body. -

We cannot make any Laws to bind Britannia. England sits here representatively only. -

As our Predecessors have left us free, so we to leave our Successors without Prejudice, not -

Prejudice reduces, Necessity excludes, Counsel. -

This House hath translated the Title of the Crown from one Line to another, which they could not do.

Mr. Secretary Herbert: - Summa lex esto salus Principis : Summa lex esto salus Reipublicae. -

1. The Union in Name: In Government. -

To debate freely, without Limitation. -

1. Honourable : 2. Profitable : 3. Possible. -

Dukedoms in France united. -

Whether little Commodity from Scotland. - Cloth, Wool, and Tin, will be carried that Way, if the Union be not.

Transporting Ordnance.

Mr. Attorney, D. Stanhope, D. Swale, bring a Message from the Lords : -

Whereas the Lords had . .. touching the Transportation of Ordnance, accompanied with a twofold Request; One, for Furtherance of the Bill; another, that great Numbers of Iron Ordnance might be stayed, now ready to be transported; their - not only in advancing publick Good, but in averting public Inconveniences, their Lordships will join. Concerning the Motion; they have taken it by our Information; they do not know the Particulars : They desire, that we may do it by ourselves, for the Stay of the Ordnance : The Lords will be present, and give all Furtherance. -

Religion.

Touching Religion; a Conference of 30 Lords, on Saturday in the Afternoon, in Camera Picta, at Two a Clock.

Upon the Question, Resolved, For the Conference. - 6o.

Sir Robert Wingfield: - That Committees Names may be named, for framing into Heads.

The Chequer Chamber, the Place for framing the Heads of the Conference with the Lords.

Committees added, for the Purpose of framing as aforesaid, to the former Committee, made, upon the Motion made by Sir Fr. Hastings : Sir Geo. Carewe, Vice-chamberlain, Sir Daniell Dun, Sir Tho. Beamount, Sir Hugh Beeston, Sir John Thynne, Sir John Mallorie, Sir Edw. Ratcliffie, Mr. Attorney of the Wards, Sir John Peyton, Sir Henry Constable, Sir Edwin Sandys, the Lord Clynton, Sir Vincent Skynner, Sir Rich. Mullineux, Sir John Hungerford, Mr. Hext, Sir Henry Bromley, Sir Rob. Knolles, Sir Tho. Lake, Sir Tho. Walsingham, Sir Tho. Smyth, Serjeant Snigg, Sir John Morrice, Sir John Bennett, Sir Rich. Hawton, Sir Geo. Fleetwood, Sir Fr. Knolles, Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Maurice Berkley, Sir Nich. Saunders, Sir Tho. Biggs, Sir Tho. Ridgeway, Sir Rowland Litton, Mr. John Bowyer, Sir Robert Needham, Sir Roger Aston, Sir Tho. Edmunds, Sir Tho. Challoner, Sir Fr. Popham, Sir Geo. Villiers.

A former Committee was, upon the Motion of Sir Francis Hastings, specially selected, and appointed to consider of the Confirmation, and Re-establishing, of the Religion, now established within this Kingdom; and of the Settling, Increasing, Maintaining, and Continuing, of a learned Ministry; with whatsoever else might incidently bring Furtherance thereunto: And, upon a Message, delivered by Mr. Speaker, from his Majesty, touching the Discipline of the Church, and Reformation of Religion, as also touching the Complaints made of the Abuses of Commissaries Courts; such Particulars, as come into Consideration by that Occasion, together with the Proceeding of a former Committee in the same Matter, are referred to all the said Committees.

These last Committees was this Day added to the first; and ordered by the House, that they should both join in a Conference with the Lords, touching all the foresaid Matters, desired by the King, and consented unto by both Houses; to be upon Saturday next, at Two a Clock in the Afternoon, in the utter Chamber of the Higher House of Parliament. And this Afternoon, the said Committees are all to meet in the Exchequer Chamber, and to set down, and digest, the Heads of their intended Conference.

Union with Scotland.

Union. - Sir Wm. Paddy: - Whereof yet to speak, we know not. The Union full of Safety, and natural Danger in the contrary. -

Signum est signum signati. We must know what is res, before we can give it a Name, If a fit Name, it must be signum signati. -

" Peace, Villain, the Englishman comes;" a Proverb in France. -

Of Sir Edw. Sandys his Opinion.

Message to Lords.

Mr. Speaker: - Message to the Lords, that we do not neglect: That we are still in debating, and will send Lords, them Answer, so soon as we resolve.

The Lord Buckhurst, Sir Geo. Carewe, Sir Tho. Somerset, Mr. Solicitor, Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir Rog. Wilbraham, from the House to the Lords, with the Message.

Union with Scotland.

Mr. Brook, a Lawyer : - That we first the Union of Government. - Maxims in the Law. - Tenancy by the Courtesy. - Customs, Maxims, Laws, Statutes. - If we take away the Name, we take away the Maxims. -

If an Englishman be born in other Countries, and not be of the Faith ....

Mr. Moore: - Forma dat nomen, et esse. Nomen et esse go together, and so join in One, together in One Form. -

To confer, touching the Commission. -

The Law, in point of Government, between Scotland and us.

None, born in England, and Scotland, since the King was our King, but are inheritable, and no Aliens; may traffick: Those born before, Aliens. -

1. Criminal: 2. Or Laws of Property. -

Two Heads. -

Entertain a Conference, with Cautions, touching the Name.

Mr. Rich. Martin: - 7th Objection. That the Name will inwrap the Matter. -

It cannot be holpen by any Bill. -

England hath always been famous in that Name. Precedence most dear to all Nations. -

United in Obedience, but now to be united one to another. -

Subtle Widow of London, to make away all their Goods, and live upon the Husband's Stock : Like Scotland.

Let us not be hasty to entertain more than we can maintain. An Effluxion of People from the Northern Parts, which all the World takes Notice of:- -

No Commonwealth to stand upon the Issue of One King -

For his Justice Sake, let us pass nothing, without Deliberation.

To-morrow Morning Mr. Speaker to deliver what he conceives of the Speeches delivered, touching the Conference for the Union.

Jovis, 19 Die Aprilis, 1604 - post meridiem

Butler's Estate.

THE Bill for the Confirmation and Assurance of the Lands, &c. of Henry Butler, &c. Esquire, according to a certain Indenture of Covenants, made for the Marriage of William Butler, Son and Heir of the said Henry: - The first Reading.

Brewers, &c.

The Bill, how many Cowpers Brewers and Vinegar-men may keep.

Le Grice's Estate.

The Bill to assure the Manors, Lands and Tenements, of Christofer Le Grice, according to the true Meaning of the last Will and Testament of the said Christofer: - The first Reading.

Small Debts.

The Bill for Recovery of small Debts, and the Relief of poor Debtors in London: - The first Reading.

Tythes.

The Bill for the Explanation, and more due Execution, of the Decree, made in 37 H. VIII. for the Payment of Tythes in London: - The first Reading.

London Merchants.

The Bill for a Court of Merchants in the City of London, as in Scotland, and France: - The first Reading.

Poor.

The Bill for Continuance and Explanation of a Statute, made in the 43th Year of the Reign of the late Queen Elizabeth, intituled. An Act for the Relief of the Poor : - The first Reading.

Port of London.

The Bill to ratify the Keys and Wharfs in the Port of London, formerly made free and open, and Restraint of others, per Statut. anno 1o Eliz. cap. 11. for Goods, Wares, and Merchandizes, and Commission and Certificate thereupon: - The first Reading.

Outlawries.

The Bill to take away lurking and secret Utlaries: - The first Reading.

Shoemakers.

The Bill against vagrant and wandering Shoemakers. - The first Reading.

False Dice.

The Bill to prevent the Making, Selling, and Uttering, of false Dice, and Dice of Advantage : - The first Reading.

Assert Lands.

The Bill for the Establishing of certain Lands, called Assert Lands, in the Owners and Possessors thereof: - The first Reading.

Trade.

The Bill for the Enlargement of Trade, for his Majesty's Subjects, into foreign Countries: - The first Reading.

Shooting.

The Bill for the due Execution of former Statutes, made against Shooting in Guns, and for the Preservation of the Game of Fesants and Partridges, and against the Destroying of Hares with Hare-pipes, and tracing Hares in the Snow : - The first Reading.