House of Commons Journal Volume 11: 26 March 1696

Jovis, 2 die Martii;

8° Gulielmi Tertii.

Prayers.

Disposition by Will in Wales.

MR. Brereton reported from the Committee, to whom the Bill to take away the Custom of Wales, which hinders Persons from disposing of their personal Estates by their Wills, was committed, That they had made some Amendments to the Bill; which they had directed him to report to the House; and which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read throughout; and then a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Ordered, That the Bill, with the Amendments, be ingrossed.

Linen Manufacture.

Sir Robert Davers, according to Order, presented to the House a Bill for encouraging the Linen Manufactory of Ireland, and the bringing Hemp and Flax into this Kingdom.

The Bill was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time at Twelve a Clock.

Ridout's Estate.

An ingrossed Bill, from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the Sale of Lands in Horsington, in the County of Somerset, Part of the Estate of Christopher Ridout, an Infant, for Payment of Incumbrances charged thereon; and for preserving the Residue of the said Estate, for the Infant; was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass, with the Amendments.

Ordered, That Mr. Gery do carry the Bill to the Lords, and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the same, with some Amendments: To which Amendments they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

Carts applying for Hire.

Sir Rowland Gwyn, according to Order, reported, from the Committee, to whom the Consideration of the Petition of the ancient Carmen of the City of London was referred, the Matter, as it appeared to the said Committee; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth; viz.

That the Committee, having considered of the Petition of the Carmen; and having heard Counsel and Witnesses, in order to make out the Allegations contained in their said Petition; do find, That an Act of Common-Council was made in the Year 1681. That no Woodmonger should keep, or work, any Cart for Carriage of their Fuel, but what should be Part of the Number of 420 Carts, to be licensed by the Governors of Christ's Hospital; which were adjudged to be sufficient for the Carriage of all Goods, Merchandize, and Fuel, within the City and Liberties:

That, notwithstanding the said Act of Common Council, the Woodmongers did work their unlicensed Carts above the said Number of 420; which caused several Suits to be commenced; and, upon Tryals at the Common Pleas, and Exchequer Courts, at Westminster, the said Act of Common Council was adjudged to be good and binding; yet the Woodmongers continue to work their own Carts.

That the Carmen further insisted, That the City of London have and do still allow the Woodmongers 120 Carts above the said Number of 420; to the Prejudice of the Carmen, who have for several Years, and do still, pay near 400l;. a Year for the Benefit of Christ's Hospital; and are now contented to allow 300l. per Ann. more, towards the erecting an Hospital at Greenwich, for Maintenance of the Seamen:

That there is not Work for the 420 Carts first licensed.

That several Witnesses were called, to prove that Carts stand idle in the Streets for want of Work.

Mr. Gibson: Who said, That Carts are so numerous in Thames-street, that they hinder the Inhabitants from going out or coming into their Houses; and has known Carts to stand idle a whole Day together; and that this Disorder has been these Six Years, or more; but especially the last Two Years:

That, by the Order, Four are appointed where now Fifteen do croud; viz. from Ralph's Key to Wiggin's Key; and so in proportion for the other Keys: That he has often complained to the Street-keeper; but could have no Redress.

Mr. Rayner: That he lives near the Custom-house; and there was ordered to be but Eight Carts; but he has seen Fifty-seven together; that the Inhabitants of Thamesstreet have petitioned the Lord Mayor, but could have no Redress.

Mr. Atwood: That he lives at Dowgate, and has seen Sixteen or Eighteen Carts between London-bridge and Dowgate; and that, by reason of the Crouding of these Carts, several of the Inhabitants have left their Houses.

Then Witnesses were examined, to prove the great Deceits of the Woodmongers, in their short Measures.

Mr. Joleph Hern informed the Committee, That one Mr. Fowlk, a Woodmonger, was spoken to, to send to his Father's House Eight Chaldron of Coals; the Carter was ordered to measure the same; and afterwards the said Coals were measured by a Meter, and there was found wanting 42 Bushels:

That the said Fowlk compounded with the Man at the Dog Tavern for One Peck in each Sack: That there was a Bushel upon his Cart; but refused to uneasure therewith.

John Danford, a Meter: That a Person bought Five Chaldrons; and the last Load being come, there wanted Six Pecks in that Load; and that the Coals were seized by the Quest, for the Poor.

Mr. Good, a Meter, said, In April last, he was called by Mr. Watts to measure Five Chaldron of Coals he had lent to one Mr. Ferryman; and, upon measuring the same, there wanted Two Bushels in every Three Sacks.

That Counsel appeared for, and on the behalf of, the City of London; and insisted, That the City have a Power to license what Number of Carts they think fit; that, true it is, there was an Act of Common-Council in 1681. whereby the Woodmongers are prohibited from using their own Carts; but the City finding very great Inconveniency thereby, and upon the Application of several eminent Merchants of the City, an Order of the Common-Council was made for suspending that Act, within Ten Days after it was made; and it hath continued suspended ever since; and, as soon as their Charter was restored, they did, by an Act of Common-Council, repeal the former Act of 1681:

That the Power and Jurisdiction of appointing, governing, and regulating, of Carts and Cars, is vested in the City; and they are the best Judges what Number of Carts are fit to be employed:

That, in the Time of King James the First, a Report was made, That 400 Carts was then necessary; so that now 600 may as well be employed; the Buildings being increased:

That Liberty is given to Brewers, Lime-men, and several others, to carry their own Goods; so that it would be a great Hardship to the Woodmongers to deny them the same Liberty of carrying their own Goods:

That the Addition of 120 Carts for the Woodmongers is not prejudicial to the Carmen; they not being admitted to hire, because the 420 Street-Carts only have a Right to be employed in carrying Goods in the City; and the 120 are restrained to the sole Use of the Woodmongers, for carrying their Fuel, and not to be hired upon any other Occasion:

That the Act of Common-Council limits such a Number of Carts, as may be needful for the Service, in each Part of the City; and, if more croud into One Place than are allowed by the said Act, they are as liable to Punishment by it, as other Offenders against any Act of Common Council; and, if they stand idle, it may be reasonably supposed to be occasioned by their removing from the Stations appointed for them; for that the Government of the City have directed them Stations to wait in, where they may be likely to be employed for the Service of the City:

That the Want of Trade, of late Years, might occasion the Crouding of Carts in Thames-street; thinking it the most likely Place to find Employment in:

That Mr. Adamson the Scavenger, and others, have been often summoned before the Lord Mayor, upon Complaint of the Streets being crouded with Carts, in greater Numbers than were allowed; but he said, He could not help it, for that the Carmen would come thither:

That the Carmen pay no Rent to the City but 13 s. 4d. yearly, for each Cart; which is for Salaries to the Officers, who are to controul their Disorders:

That the 300l;. per Annum, offered to Greenwich Hospital by the Carmen, must be raised upon the Citizens who employ them; and will cost them, at least, 5 or 60,000l. per Annum; whereas the City of London is capable of doing more for Greenwich Hospital than the Carmen:

That the last Act of Common Council, in favour of the Woodmongers, was obtained, because Carts out of the City were employed by the Woodmongers:

That the Woodmongers carry Coals, at least, 18 d. per Chaldron cheaper than Carmen would:

That the Complaint is made but by a few of the Carmen themselves against the whole City; and that they may as well complain against any By-Law; for that some Persons will be grieved by any Law made:

That the 120 Carts pay no Rent:

That the Carmen are an insolent and ungovernable People; and, notwithstanding the great Care the City hath taken, for the Regulation and Well-Government of them, yet no Law will bind that unruly Sort of People; and, if they should procure an Act of Parliament, they will be more unruly, and they would think themselves above even the chief Magistrate of the City; which would be a Means not only to discourage the most substantial Citizens of London, but make many Persons leave their Houses, and seek Habitations elsewhere, where they may live quietly, and be free from the Insolencies of those rude People.

As to the Complaints against the Woodmongers, in their false Measures, they say, That every Cart ought to carry a sealed Bushel, with all Coal they sell; and, if the Coal wants of the Measure, according to that Bushel, the Woodmonger is punishable by the Act of CommonCouncil: But, because some Woodmongers have been guilty of some Irregularities, the City hope, That their Power and Jurisdiction of appointing and regulating Carts which they have always had, shall not be taken from them.

Ordered, That the said Report do lie upon the Table.

Cleansing Havens.

A Bill to encourage the Removal of Bars; and for the Scouring, Cleansing, and Deepening, of decayed Havens; was read a Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House.

Resolved, That this House will, upon this Day Sevennight, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the said Bill.

Penalty on Country Retailers in Cities.

A Motion being made, and the Question being put, That Leave be given to bring in a Bill, That the Penalty mentioned in the Act, made 1° & 2° Phil. & Mariæ, intituled, An Act, That Persons dwelling in the Country shall not sell divers Wares in Cities, or Towns Corporate, by Retail, may be recovered before Justices of the Peace;

It passed in the Negative.

African Company.

A Petition of the Merchants, and other Traders of the City of Bristoll, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Petitioners have, for several Years last past, driven a Trade to Africa, and exported great Quantities of Commodities, the Product of this Nation; the Returns whereof are Gold, Wax, and Elephants Teeth; the latter whereof hath greatly employed the Artificers of Bristoll, and adjacent Counties: That the Petitioners have sold them Elephants Teeth at lower Rates than can be expected from the African Company; whereby those Commodities, made thereof, are cheaper furnished, both at home and abroad: And praying, That, in the Establishment of the Trade to Africa, Regard may be had to the Petitioners.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for settling and regulating the Trade to Africa is committed.

Preventing Export of Wool.

An ingrossed Bill for preventing the Exportation of Wool from hence; and to encourage the Importation of Wool from Ireland; was read the Third time.

And several Amendments were proposed to be made to the Bill; viz.

Press 1. L. 3. to leave out the Word "by:"

Pr. 2. L. 10. to insert "Whitehaven, in the County of Cumberland:"

L. 19. to leave out "appointed to put this Act in Execution," and insert, instead thereof, "of his Majesty's Customs in "England:"

Pr. 3. L. 4. to insert "Wool:"

L. 17. to insert "within Five Miles of the:"

And the same were, upon the Questions severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House; and the Bill amended at the Table accordingly.

An ingrossed Clause was offered, as a Rider, That if an Offender be convicted, no Hundred, or Place, shall incur the Penalties mentioned in the Act:

And the the same was read the First time:

And the Question being put, That the Clause be read a Second time;

It passed in the Negative.

Another ingrossed Clause was offered, as a Rider, for Liberty to Spinners, &c. to go, by Night, nigh the Sea Coasts:

And the Question being put, That the Clause be brought up to the Table;

It passed in the Negative.

Another ingrossed Clause was offered, as a Rider, That no Person shall buy up any Wool, within the Counties of Kent or Sussex, who has not served Seven Years Apprenticeship to some Clothier, or other Woollen Manufacturer:

And the same was twice read:

And the Question being put, That the Clause be read a Third time;

It passed in the Negative.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for the more effectual preventing the Exportation of Wool; and for encouraging the Importation thereof from Ireland.

Ordered, That Sir Rowland Gwyn do carry the Bill to the Lords, and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cook and Sir Richard Holford:

Mr. Speaker,

Heron's Estate.

The Lords have agreed to the Amendments, made by this House, to the Bill, intituled, An Act to enable Sir Charles Heron Baronet to sell Lands, for Payment of a Portion and Debts. Also,

The Lords have agreed to the Bill, intituled, An Act for raising the Militia of this Kingdom, for the Year 1696, although the Month's Pay, formerly advanced, be not repaid; without any Amendments. Also,

Elections—Irregularities of Returning Officers.

The Lords have agreed to the Amendment, made by this House, to the Amendments, made by the Lords, to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the further regulating Elections of Members to serve in Parliament; and for preventing irregular Proceedings of Sheriffs, and other Officers, in the electing and returning such Members. Also,

Great Queen Street Estate.

The Lords have agreed to the Amendments, made by this House to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the better improvement of a House and Ground in Great Queenstreet. Also,

Punishing Mutiny and Desertion.

The Lords have agreed to the Bill, intituled, An Act for continuing several former Acts, for punishing Officers, and Soldiers, who shall mutiny, or desert his Majesty's Service; and for punishing false Musters; and for Payment of Quarters; for One Year longer; with some Amendments: To which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Bringing Plate to be coined.

An ingrossed Bill for encouraging the Bringing of Plate into the Mint, to be coined, was read the Third time.

An ingrossed Clause was offered, as a Rider, for settling the Price of Guineas; with a Blank for the Price:

And the Question being put, That the Clause be brought up to the Table;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

So it was resolved in the Affirmative.

The Clause, being brought up, was twice read:

And a Motion being made, and the Question being put, That the Blank be filled up with "24s.;"

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

So it passed in the Negative.

Resolved, That the Blank be filled up with "22s."

Then the Clause was read the Third time:

And the Question being put, That the Clause be made Part of the Bill;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

So it was resolved in the Affirmative.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act to encourage the bringing Plate into the Mint, to be coined; and for the further remedying the ill State of the Coin of the Kingdom.

Ordered, That Mr. Smith do carry the Bill to the Lords, and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

African Company.

Resolved, That this House will, upon Tuesday Morning next, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Bill for settling and regulating the Trade to Africa.

Ways and Means

Resolved, That this House will, To-morrow Morning, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of Ways and Means for raising the Supply to be granted to his Majesty, for defraying the Expences of the Civil List, for the Year 1696; and for the Relief of the poor French Protestants.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be adjourned.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine a Clock.