House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 12 January 1643

DIE Jovis, 12 die Januarii.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester, Speaker this Day.

Message from the H. C. with an Order to stay Coal Ships from going to Newcastle.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye, Knight:

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in divers Orders:

1. An Order concerning restraining of Coal Ships from going to Newcastle, until further Order of Parliament. (Here enter it.)

Conference to be had, about some Inconveniences that will attend it.

Ordered, To have a Conference with the House of Commons concerning this Ordinance, to propound to them some Inconveniences as may ensue by passing this Ordinance in this Manner, and to desire to know how those Inconveniences may be answered.

"1. Question: Whether there be any Store of Coal in the City?

"2. Whether this will not divert that Trade to another Country, and so the Pits will be spoiled for the future?

"3. Whether it will not raise the Price of Coals here?"

More Orders from thence, for the Lords Concurrence;

2. An Order for to give Authority to train the Trained Bands and Voluntiers of the Town of Ipsich.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. An Order for fortifying of the Town of Lynn.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

and to sit P. M.

4. The House of Commons desires their Lordships would please to fit this Afternoon, about some Business of Importance.

Agreed, To fit this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees with the House of Commons in the Order concerning Ipsich and Lynn, and agree to fit this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock; but concerning the Ordinance touching restraining Ships going to Newcastle, their Lordships will send them an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about the Order for staying Coal Ships from going to Newcastle.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire a present Conference, touching the Ordinance for restraining Ships going to Newcastle for Coal.

The Counsel on both Sides were heard, to inform this House concerning the Business concerning the Duke Espernoone, Duke of Vendosme, and Marquis De Vieuville.

Duke of Espernoon and Merchants here, about a Ship hired in Spain.

Mr. Bierly said, "That the Duke Espernoone being arrested by Merchants here, for a Ship which was hired in Spaine, and the Duke of Vendosme and Marquis de Vieuville, as is alledged, gave their Words for his Appearance to the Action; and the Merchants have now taken out Writs, to arrest them, whereby they are inforced to keep their Houses, else they shall be arrested upon a pretended Promise which was not given, and the Matter being for Vexation.

"That Peter de la Sale, a Merchant residing in London, is arrested since, for the very same Matter."

Mr. Glover, Counsel for the Merchants, alledged, "That the Duke of Vendosme and the Marquis De Vieuville did promise and undertake for the Appearance of the Duke Espernoone."

Ordered, That this House will hear further Information of this Business To-morrow Morning, the First Cause, whether the Promise was made or no.

The Messengers return this Answer:

Answer from the H. C.

That the House of Commons will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Petition to the King, against adjourning the Term to Oxford.

The Earl of Northumb. reported, "That the Committee of Lords and Commons have considered of a Draught of a Petition to the King, concerning the English Courts, that are appointed by the King's Proclamation to be adjourned to be kept at Oxford."

The Petition was read. (Here enter it.)

Ordered, That this House approves of this Petition; and that it shall be sent down to the House of Commons, to desire their Concurrence therein.

Message to the H. C. with it, and that the Lords agree to the Declaration against the Commission of Array.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire their Concurrence in the Petition to the King, concerning the Adjournment of the English Courts to Oxford; and to let them know, that this House agrees with them in the Declaration against the Commission of Array, and desire to join that it may be printed and published.

The House of Commons being come, the House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Hern, for printing a scandalous Pamphlet.

Ric'd Herne, the Printer, was brought to the Bar; and he confessed, "That he printed a Book, intituled, His Majesty's gracious Answer to the Message sent from the Honourable City of London, concerning Peace; and he said, he had it of one Glapthorne, who lived in Fetter Lane."

Peck, for D°.

Likewise one Pecke was brought to this Bar; and he confessed, "That (fn. 1) he made and invented a Book, intituled, A Continuation of certain special and remarkable Passages informed to both Houses of Parliament, &c. and that he delivered it to Leach and Coales."

Both committed to The Fleet.

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the said Richard Herne and Pecke shall be committed to the Prison of The Fleete, there to remain until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

That the House of Commons do agree with this House, in the Petition concerning the Adjournment of the English Courts to Oxford, and that it be sent to the King; and that they agree that the Declaration against the Commission of Array shall be printed and published.

Order for fortifying the Town of Lynn.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons, That the Treasurers and Receivers of the Subscription-monies, in the Town of Lynn, do detain in their Hands Four Hundred Pounds of the said Subscription monies, collected in the said Town, to be employed towards the Fortifying and Defence of the said Town."

Order for fortifying Ipswich.

"For the better Safe-guarding and Defending of the Town of Ipswich (which is a great Town, and a Port Town) from such Violences, Spoils, and Destructions, which may be offered and done to the same, by any Forces, and especially by Foreign Forces, which may be brought by Sea, and landed in that Port, or some Place thereto near adjoining, which is now much feared: It is this Day Ordered and Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament; That the Bailiffs and other Deputy Lieutenants of the same Town may erect and make, and are hereby authorized to erect and make, within the same Town and the Parts near adjoining to the same, such Fortifications and other Works as they, or any Three of them, shall judge to be fit and expedient, for the better Defence and Safety of the same Town; towards the Charge whereof, it is Ordered, That they may and shall retain in their Hands Two Hundred Pounds, Part of the Money by that Town contributed or lent upon the Propositions of both Houses of Parliament: And it is also Ordered and Ordained, by the Lords and Commons, That the Deputy Lieutenants of the said Town do presently take special Care, that the Trained Bands of the said Town be made and kept complete for the Number, and be completely armed, and mustered, and trained, and taught the Use of their Arms: And it is further Ordered and Ordained, That all such Persons within the same Town (not being formerly charged to find Arms, or listed to wear Arms in the Trained Band), who are willing, for the better Defence of the same Town, (fn. 2) to be listed as Voluntiers, shall and may, by the Deputy Lieutenants, or any Three or more of them, be put into One or more Company or Companies, as the Number of such Voluntiers shall arise to; and that every such Company, for the better Encouragement in that Service, shall and may elect and choose a fit Person to be their Captain; which Person, so by them elected and chosen, and approved and allowed by the Deputy Lieutenants of the same Town, or any Three of them, to be a fit Person for that Service, shall hereby have Power, Warrant, and Authority, to be Captain of that Company, and, from Time to Time, as he shall think fit, to call together that his Company, or so many of them as he shall think fit, and them to muster, teach, and instruct in the Use of their Arms, and to train, teach, and exercise them in martial Discipline; and the said Bailiffs and other Deputy Lieutenants of the said Town, or any Three of them, for the better Ordering of the said Companies, are hereby authorized to put the said Trained Band and Companies of Voluntiers into a Regiment, and to appoint and name a Colonel, Lieutenant Colonel, and a Serjeant Major, and also Captains, as often as any such shall be wanting; all which Captains of the Trained Band, and Companies of Voluntiers, and other Officers, shall be subject to, and under the Command and Directions of, the Deputy Lieutenants of the same Town; and shall, from Time to Time, be obedient and subject unto and shall do execute and perform, within the said Town, all and every such Commands and Directions as they shall receive from the Two Houses of Parliament, or from the Lord Lieutenant of the County, or, in his Absence, from the "Deputy Lieutenants of the said Town, or any Three of them."

Petition of both Houses to the King, against adjourning the Term to Oxford.

"May it please Your most Excellent Majesty,

"The Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, having taken into their serious Consideration Your Majesty's Proclamation, dated at Oxford, the 27th of December last, for the adjourning of the Courts of Chancery, the Receipt of the Exchequer, First Fruits and Tenths, and the Dutchy of Lancaster, the Court of Wards and Liveries, and the Court of Requests, from the City of Westm. unto the City of Oxford, and for adjourning the Courts of King's Bench, Common Pleas, and Exchequer, unto Crast. Purificat. next; and considering the great Inconveniences that may fall thereby to Your good Subjects; do in all Humility present them to Your Sacred Majesty, as their Reasons to move Your Majesty to revoke the said Proclamation, and to continue the said several Courts at their several Times and Places within the said City of Westm.

"1. The Lord Keeper of the Great Seal of England, and the Master of Your Majesty's Court of Wards and Liveries, the Supreme Judges of the Chancery and Court of Wards, and who have the Seals of the said several Courts, being Members of the House of Peers in Parliament, cannot, without Breach of Privileges of Parliament, absent themselves from their Attendance there, unless they have Leave of the said House of Peers: The Chancellor of the said Dutchy of Lancaster and the Masters of the Chancery are Assistants to the said House of Parliament; neither can they be absent from their Attendance there, without Leave of the said House: And the said House of Peers, being now in Consultation about the great Affairs of the Kingdom, cannot spare any of the said Members or Assistants: And divers other Officers of the said Courts are Members of the House of Commons, who cannot be spared from their Attendance there.

"2. Your Subjects cannot pass from any Part of the Kingdom to the said City of Oxford without apparent Danger, being to pass through the greatest Part of Two several Armies; neither can the said Courts sit and proceed there with that Freedom and Liberty as Courts of Justice ought to do, there being an Army in the said City.

"3. Your Majesty's Records of the said Courts, and the Evidences of Your Subjects, which are necessary to be used in the said Courts at the Hearing of Causes, will be in Danger of Miscarriage in bringing to Oxford through the said Armies; which, if they should, might turn to the utter Undoing of divers of Your Majesty's good Subjects.

"4. Much Prejudice may come to divers of Your Majesty's Subjects, to have the Courts of Equity so far removed from the Courts of Law.

"5. If the Courts of Law should be adjourned till Crast. Purificat. it would much delay Your Majesty's Subjects in their legal Proceedings.

"For all which Reasons, the said Lords and Commons do humbly desire Your Majesty, that the said Courts may be kept at Westm. and at their several usual Times, and not at the City of Oxford."

Post meridiem.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester, Speaker.

Captain of The Tower Hamlets Trained Bands refuses to obey the Warrant of the Lord Lieutenant of Middlesex.

The Earl of Holland informed this House, "That his Lordship, as Lord Lieutenant of the County of Midd. sent his Warrant, by virtue of an Order of this House, to the Lieutenant of The Tower, and other Deputy Lieutenants, who sent the same to a Captain of the Trained Bands in the Hamlets, who said, He cared not for the Warrant, and would not obey it."

Hawkins, for Contempt of a Warrant from this House.

Henry Parkinson, Constable, witnessed, "That John Hawkins said, when he shewed him the Order of this House to him against Shooting, That he would not obey the said Order; but said it was a base, stinking Warrant, and he could not conceive but there was Treason or Treachery in it."

Myles Cleare witnessed the same.

Committed to The Fleet.

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the said John Hawkins, for this Offence, shall be committed to the Prison of The Fleete, there to remain until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

Order for removing Doctors Beale, Martin, and Sterne, from The Tower, to the Prison in Aldersgatestreet.

Ordered, That the Bodies of Wm. Beale, Edward Martyn, and Ric'd Sterne, Doctors in Divinity, and now Prisoners in The Tower, shall be delivered over to the Custody of the Keeper of the Lord Peters's House, in Aldersgate-streat, in London, to be there kept until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference about the London Petition, to the King, and His Answer; and about a Supply for the Army.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Walter Longe:

To desire a present Conference, concerning the Petition of London presented to His Majesty, and His Answer thereunto; and also touching something to be communicated concerning the present Supply of Money for the Army.

Answer:

Answer.

Their Lordships will give a Meeting presently, in the Painted Chamber.

Paper from the Spanish Ambassador, concerning Cochineal.

The Earl of Northumb. acquainted this House, "That the Spanish Ambassador was with his Lordship, and desired him to present unto the Houses of Parliament a Paper concerning Cochineal."

Which (fn. 3) was read, as followeth: (Here enter it.)

To be sent to the H. C.

Ordered, That this Paper be sent down to the House of Commons, because this House hath (fn. 3) not had Cognizance of this Business, it having been agitated only in the House of Commons.

House adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference, about the London Petition to the King, and His Answer to it.

The Lord Manchester reported the Effect of this Conference; which was, "To communicate to their Lordships a Narrative and Printed Book, received from the Lord Mayor and Common Council; which, so soon as they received them, they desired to have imparted them to their Lordships, but their Lordships were risen; together with the Opinion of the House of Commons, that the Answer which the King hath sent by Mr. Herne should be permitted to be read at the Common Hall as speedily as may be; and, to that Purpose, they had sent to the Lord Mayor, to call a Common Hall against To-morrow Morning.

Then the Narrative was read, as followeth:

A Relation from the Common Hall at London, of some Passages between the Common Council and the King.

"Commune Concilium tentum in Camera Guildhall, Civitat. London. 9 die Januarii, 1642, post meridiem.

"At this Common Council, Sir George Garrett, Sir George Clarke, Knights and Aldermen, Mr. Peter Jones, Mr. George Henley, Mr. Richard Bateman, and Mr. Barney Reames, Committees lately appointed by this Court to make their Address unto His Majesty, with an humble Petition in the Name of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of this City, did make their Relation in Writing, which followeth, in these Words:

"On Monday, the Second of January, we came to Oxford, between One and Two of the Clock in the Afternoon, where, though we could get no Lodging before Night, yet presently we dispatched one to give the Lord Falkeland Notice of our coming, and about Three of the Clock did all of us attend his Lordship at his Lodging in New-Colledge, with whom we sent one also to the Court, to receive His Majesty's Order for Admission into His Presence; who returning unto us, and bringing us Word that His Majesty would receive the Petition at Five of the Clock, we accordingly all of us came to the Court, and, after some small Time of Attendance, were admitted unto His Majesty, into His Withdrawing Chamber, and the Petition publicly read in His Majesty's Presence; unto which His Majesty presently made Answer, unto this Effect: That He was glad of the Occasion this Petition would give Him, to let the City know some of His Declarations; which, although He hath already caused them to be put in Print, yet He doubted might be kept from the Knowledge of His People in the City: That He doubted the Petitioners promised more than they could perform; to wit, to defend His Majesty from Tumults; when, as He heard, they could not maintain Peace and Quiet amongst themselves: That His Answer should be full, which He would expect should be published and made known to all His People in the City. And he added this Question, Whether they had petitioned the Parliament also, to remember them of their Duty unto His Majesty: Unto which it was presently answered, That they were only Messengers of this Petition, and could not give Answer to that Question. On Tuesday, we had no Audience; but attended our Answer. And on Wednesday, the 4th of January, we addressed ourselves for our Dispatch, by Message unto the Lord Falkeland, and received His Majesty's Order to attend at Three of the Clock that Afternoon, which we did accordingly; and being called in, His Majesty shewed us a Paper, which He says was His Answer to the Petition, and so delivered it into the Hands of a Gentleman called Mr. Herne, standing by Him, who, He said, should go with us, and see it done accordingly; and having demanded which was the greater Assembly, a Common Council or Common Hall, and it being answered that a Common Hall was the greater, His Majesty Twice expressly commanded us, that this His Answer should be published at a Common Hall, that there might be fair Play above-board, and that the People of the City might be disabused, and know the Truth. This done, His Majesty dismissed us, as we thought; but presently we were re-called; and His Majesty said, He would send some to be amongst us in the City, from Him, to inform the City and Him of the Truth, whom He would expect they should protect, being they did protect Persons ill-affected to His Majesty; and that He should see by that, how they were able to protect His Majesty.

"This Relation we make according to our best Remembrance.

"Also, at this Common Council, the Copy of a Warrant granted by His Majesty, for the Safe Conduct of Henry Heron, Esquire, His Majesty's Servant, was produced; the which followeth, in these Words: videlicet,

"CHARLES R.

"Our Will and Pleasure is, and We do hereby streightly charge and command all the Officers and Soldiers of Our Army, and all other Our Ministers and loving Subjects whatsoever, to permit and suffer Our Trusty and Well-beloved Henry Heron, Esquire, Our Servant, to pass freely by you, to Our City of London, and to return back to Us, to Our Court at Oxford, without any Lett, Hindrance, or Molestation; he being sent from Us to the Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of Our City of London, with Our gracious Answer to their humble Petition: Hereof fail you not, as you tender Our Displeasure, and will every of you answer the contrary at your uttermost Perils.

"Given under Our Signet, at Our Court at Oxford, the Fifth Day of January, 1642.

"After the said Relation and Warrant, which this Court doth Order to be entered, and upon Hearing of the said Committees what they can further say and declare touching what was further delivered unto them by Word of Mouth, upon Delivery of the said Petition, or concerning a Printed Paper acknowledged by Sir George Garrett and Sir George Clarke to be delivered unto them in their Coach at their coming away, which this Court conceiveth to be the Answer to the said Petition, and agreeable with the Message sent by the said Mr. Heron to be published at the Common Hall; and forasmuch as the aforesaid was presented to the Lords and Commons in Parliament, for their Advice and Assistance for the safe Conveying thereof unto His Majesty, it is therefore thought fit, and so Ordered, by this Court, That Sir John Wollaston Knight and Alderman, Mr. Alderman Fowke, Mr. Alderman Gibbs, Mr. Alderman Chambers, Colonel Manwareing, Mr. Stephen Eastwick, Mr. Theophilus Riley, Mr. Owen Rowe, Mr. Francis Pecke, Mr. Samuell Warner Alderm. William Barkley, and Mr. James Russell, or the major Part of them, shall forthwith repair to the House of Commons, and acquaint them with the whole Proceedings concerning what the said Committees have said and delivered in this Court, touching the said Petition and Passages thereupon; and also to present unto the said House of Commons a Printed Book, now lately published, as a pretended Answer to the aforesaid Petition; and also to crave their Advice therein, before a Common Hall be called.

"Michell."

Next, was read the King's Answer to the Petition of the City, with the Warrant of His Majesty for printing of it.

"CHARLES R.

"Our Will and Command is, That you forthwith print, publish, and disperse, the humble Petition of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of Our City of London unto Us, with Our Gracious Answer to the same; the Copies whereof you shall herewith receive: And for so doing, this shall be your Warrant.

"Given at Our Court at Oxford, this 4th of January, 1642.

"To Our Printers."

Also another Warrant from His Majesty was read, as followeth:

"CHARLES R.

"Whereas We sent you Our Warrant, of the 4th of this present January, for the Printing and Publishing the Petition of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of Our City of London, with Our Answer thereunto; Our Will and Command is, That you proceed not in the Imprinting and Publishing of the said Petition and Answer until you shall receive Our further Pleasure and Directions thereupon, which We have sent you by Henry Heron, Esquire, Our Servant. Hereof fail you not, as you tender Our Displeasure.

"Given at Our Court at Oxford, the 5th of January, 1642.

"To Our Printers."

Observations of the H. C. upon these Proceedings.

These being read, it was delivered, "That the House of Commons holds it very necessary, if their Lordships shall so please, that some Committees of both Houses should be present at the Common Hall, to hear what shall be read from His Majesty by Mr. Heron; and, if it shall prove to be the same that is printed, which contains Matter very scandalous to the Parliament, dangerous to the City and whole Kingdom, seeming purposely designed to stir up Mutiny in the City, that then they might be ready to take off the Aspersions laid upon the Proceedings of both Houses, and to shew their Confidence in the Loyalty, Wisdom, and good Affection of the City, that they will not be misled nor distempered by any such Scandals and Aspersions: And that, if it prove not the same, but do contain any other Aspersions, they might likewise clear the Honour and Justice of their Proceedings, as they shall see Cause: And the House of Commons desires their Lordships to join with them in this also, that, whatsoever the Message did appear to be, they should yet clear the Two Houses, notwithstanding all the Taxes laid upon them by that Book, having done nothing but agreeable to their Duty to the King and Kingdom; that the Loyalty and Modesty of the City are to be commended, expressed in their Petition to his Majesty.

"The House of Commons do offer to their Lordships Consideration some Observations, extracted out of the King's Answer, with their Answers thereunto.

"1. That there was no Necessity for His Majesty to withdraw Himself from Whitehall, by Occasion of any Tumults from the City; much less to depart into the North, and to raise an Army against the Parliament.

"For Evidence whereof, it may be considered, His Majesty went safely into London, without a Guard, and stayed about a Week, after these unhappy Differences at Whitehall, and much longer at Hampton Court and Windsor, without any Attempt against Him.

"2. That the Chief Magistrates of the City, and the whole Body thereof, adhering to the Parliament, and executing their Commands, being the Great Council of the Kingdom, are called a few desperate Persons, and charged to exercise an arbitrary Power.

"This, they conceive, needs no Answer.

"3. That Contribution (fn. 4) is publicly made and avowed, for the Maintenance of the Army, which hath given Him Battle, and used all the Means that Treason and Malice could suggest, to take away His Life, and destroy His Issue.

"To this they answer, That Violence was first intended and diversly practised against the Parliament, before they took any Course for their Defence: The often Designs of bringing up the English and Scottish Armies, the gathering of Cavaliers to Whitehall, and violent coming to the House of Commons, are clear Evidences of it; the Queen's going beyond the Seas to procure Foreign Forces, and the King's going into the North, and raising an Army there, were long before the Parliament made any Preparation for taking up Arms; and the same Law of Necessity, which enforced them, for their just Defence, to have an Army, did inforce them likewise to desire Contributions for the Maintenance of that Army; and, if any Danger grew to His Majesty's Person by fighting with this Army, (fn. 4) it is that which all Assailants do undergo; for which the Two Houses are very sorry, but had no Means left to prevent it, unless they would give up the Parliament to be destroyed; Religion, the Laws, and Liberties of the Kingdom, to be subverted, at the Pleasure of those by whose wicked Counsels His Majesty and the whole Kingdom have been drawn into these miserable Distempers: And as touching the Royal Issue, they have sufficiently declared to the World their good Affections towards them, by the Care they have taken both for the Safety and Maintenance of those who are left here.

"4. That the Lord Mayor, Alderman Fowkes, Colonel Ven, and Colonel Manwareing, are demanded to be delivered up, as guilty of High Treason and Schism.

"Answer:

"To consider how this Demand is against the Privileges of Parliament, Two of them being Members of the House of Commons; against the Honour and Liberty of the City, to deliver up their Chief Magistrate, and such other eminent Members, at the King's Pleasure, only because they have done their Duty, in adhering to the Parliament, in Defence of the Kingdom; and against all Rules of Justice, that Men should be imprisoned upon such a general Charge, whereas the King keeps the Lord Digby and many more impeached for High Treason, besides divers other great Delinquents, by Force, from the due Proceeding of their lawful Trial in Parliament.

"5. They are charged with countenancing of Brownists and Anabaptists, and all Manner of Sectaries.

"Answer:

"Of this there is no Proof at all; and, whilst His Majesty declares His own Intention to defend the true Reformed Protestant Religion, He Himself doth raise an Army of Papists, the vowed Enemy thereof (fn. 5), and such as, where they have Power, are bound by their own Principles to destroy it.

"6. That Mens Persons have been imprisoned, and their Houses plundered, because they will not rebel against His Majesty.

"Answer:

"That the Parliament hath restrained all Plundering; and hath imprisoned none, but such as were dangerous Persons, apt to disturb the State.

"7. That Property is destroyed, by taking the Twentieth Part of Lands and Goods by an arbitrary Power.

"Answer:

"That the Ordinance was not made to require a Twentieth Part, but to limit the Assessors that they should not go beyond the Twentieth Part; that this is not an arbitrary Power, being derived from both Houses of Parliament; seeing that, in this Case, it is impossible to have the King's Consent, by the same Law by which they are enabled to defend the Commonwealth against the Violence applied to the Destruction of the Kingdom, they are enabled to use all those Means, without which their Defence cannot be made; and the Moderation and Reasonableness of this Proceeding will appear, when it is considered what Burthens, Contributions, and Taxes, His Majesty lays upon His People; not only particular Houses, but divers whole Towns, have been plundered by Order and Design; the full Yearly Value of Land, and more, is charged upon the Owners, through whole Counties, without Distinction; Mens Estates are declared to be forfeited, and seized on, because they will not submit to arbitrary Commands.

"8. His Majesty expects to be kept from Tumults, Affronts, and Violence.

"Answer:

"He invites the City to a Civil War amongst themselves, and to cut one another's Throats, to try whether His Party be strong enough to suppress the Parliament and all that adhere to them, before He will come to them.

"9. His Majesty threatens to seize upon the Estates of those that shall contribute towards the Maintenance of the Parliament, and to put them out of His Protection; by His Ministers in Foreign States, to solicit they may be proceeded against, that is, destroyed and spoiled as Enemies.

"Answer:

"This is a Harshness without any former Precedent, whereby He delivers not only particular Persons to be spoiled against Law, but the Kingdom to be robbed by Foreign States.

"Next, he made an Observation out of the Narration:

"That His-Majesty meant to send some amongst the City, to inform Him of the Truth.

"The House of Commons desire that it may be recommended to the Care of the City, to discover and find those Men out, that so they may be prevented from dispersing their dangerous Scandals amongst the People.

"That the House of Commons think fit to acquaint the City, that all these Proceedings make it clear, that Religion, Liberty, the Safety and Honour of the Kingdom, are in Danger, and cannot be preserved by any visible Means but this Army; and that this Army cannot be held together without Money; and to give them Notice, that the Members of both Houses have charged themselves with a Second Contribution, and have used all the Means they can, to draw the Counties to contribute, which some have done in a liberal Manner; but, without further Help of the City, it cannot be supplied; and seeing all is in so evident Danger, they hope they will not fail to add to their former Assistance, and enter into a new Contribution, without which the Army will be like to break."

Committee to go to the Common Hall, concerning a further Subscription for the Supply of the Army; and for vindicating the Parliament from the Aspersions thrown on them in the King's Answer to the London Petition.

The Report being ended, the House took the same into Consideration; and, after some Debate, came to this Resolution, and appointed the

To be Committees, to join with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, to go to the Common Hall in the City, To-morrow Morning, and propose to the City the Proposition for (fn. 6) a Second Subscription, for a present Supply of Money for the Army; and to have a present Conference with the House of Commons, to let them know, that, in regard of the Shortness of the Time, and the Length and Importance of the Particulars now brought up, and because their Lordships being unsatisfied as yet with some Particulars which must be maturely debated, and how difficult a Thing it will be for any Person in so small and short a Time as To-morrow Morning to prepare himself to be able to deliver the Sense of both Houses in these Particulars, their Lordships desire that the Committees of both Houses may meet To-morrow Morning, by Eight of the Clock, and consider of what is fit to be delivered at the Common Hall, in few general Words; fully expressing the vindicating the Privileges, Justice, and Proceedings of the Parliament, and the setting forth the Wisdom and good Affections of the City, and vindicating them from the Aspersions which are cast upon them by the King's Answer.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about this.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Matter of the last Conference.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer.

That the House of Commons will give a present Conference, as is desired.

The Speaker was appointed to acquaint the House of Commons, at this Conference, with the Sense of this House as aforesaid, and desire them to join with this House therein.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

"The Request and Desire of Don Alonso de Cardinas, Ambassador for His Catholic Majesty of Spaine, propounded unto the Right Honourable Houses of Parliament, concerning the Lading of the Ship S'ta Clara, that run away from St. Domongo, and came to Southampton.

Paper from the Spanish Ambassador, about the Cochineal and the rest of the Cargo of the Sta. Clara, that run away from St. Domingo, and came to Southampton.

"That, if the Cociniglia, which is now Ordered by the Houses of Parliament to be delivered unto the Spaniards and Owners of the said Ship, as appeareth by that Order, shall be effected, the said Ambassador desireth that the last Weight, Value, and how Notice of the said Cociniglia be taken; and that, according to Law and Equity, by Order from the said Houses of Parliament, the said Ambassador may appoint and name some Person to take Notice thereof on his Behalf.

"That Security may be given by the said Spaniards, and others unto whom by the said Order the said Cociniglia shall be delivered, of the whole and entire Value of the said Cociniglia, as it shall be found to be by those on the next former Section mentioned, over and above the Twenty Thousand Pounds by them disbursed, before the same be so delivered unto them; it being agreeable to Law and Reason, that he that hath Possession decreed unto him pendente Lite should give full Security to answer for all the whole Value that he hath Possession of; for otherwise the true Owners interested in the Goods would be damnified, and defrauded of their Right and Interest.

"That the Goods laden in the said Ship besides the Cociniglia, videlicet, Hides, Ginger, Tobacco, Sugar, &c. may not be delivered unto the Possession of the said Spaniards and Owners of the said Ship; because the said Spaniards do not claim the same, nor make any Title to them; and the said Owners do claim only their Freight for the said Goods, for which they shall have good Security, to be paid what shall be by the Court of Admiralty adjudged unto them for Freight, in Case the said Goods now in Possession, and under Locks and Keys of the said Ambassador, be ordered to be delivered unto him.

"That the said Cociniglia, if it be according to the said Order delivered to the said Spaniards and others, may in no wise be by them, or any of them, or any others, sold, disposed of, or transported, until the Question be legally decided by the Court of Admiralty, whether the said Cociniglia ought to go for Spaine or no, in Performance of the Charter Party and Obligation that Benedick Stafford, Master of the said Ship, made in Sivill, which Goods, although by Sentence so passed should be declared to be their own, yet by Law ought, and are liable by virtue of the said Obligation, to be carried thither, which cannot be performed (although the Judge should so sentence the same), if that in the mean Time they should be sold or disposed of.

"And the said Ambassador intreateth both Houses of Parliament to be pleased to cause the Execution of the Two Orders, of 29 December and 2^d Instant, to be superseded, until they resolve upon the Premises now by him propounded, and maturely considered the Justice, Quality, and Consequence, of his Demands."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 8^a cras.