House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 30 July 1646

DIE Jovis, 30 die Julii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Wilkinson.

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Vynes to be Minister of St. Clement Danes.

The Petition of the Parishioners of Clem't Danes, London; desiring " that Mr. Vynes may be settled their Minister there."

It is Ordered, That an Ordinance be drawn up, and presented to this House, for this purpose.

Letter from the Commissioners with the King.

A Letter from the Earl of Pembrooke and the Earl of Suffolke was read. (Here enter it.)

Letter from Ld. Seymour.

A Letter from the Lord Seymour was read, and a Petition, desiring his present Restraint may be taken off.

(Here enter them.)

Ld. Howard of Charlton bailed.

"The Condition of the abovesaid Recognizance is, That the Lord Howard of Charlton shall appear before the Lords in Parliament at Ten Days Notice given to his Lordship, or where he shall reside."

Message from the H. C to expedite Colonel Massey's. Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Nicolls:

To desire that their Lordships would give Expedition to the Ordinance concerning the Payment of Colonel Massie's Forces.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will take this Message into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Orders for Sheriffs.

The Order for the High Sheriff of Carnarvan, was read, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

The Order for the High Sheriff of Anglesey, was read, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

Report of the Conference about Belfast.

The Speaker reported the former Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the Town of Belfast, in the Kingdom of Ireland.

"Divers Papers were read:

"1. The State of the Business." (Here enter it.)

"2. The former Letters of the Houses to the Kingdom of Scotland, for (fn. 1) delivering up of Belfast." (Here enter it.)

"3. The Letter of the Earl of Crawford in Answer to it." (Here enter it.)

"4. The Answers of the Scotts Officers, in Belfast in Ireland, to the Kingdom of Scotland." (Here enter them.)

Belfast to be delivered up by the Scots to the English.

Ordered, That this House agrees with the House of Commons, that the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland be desired, that they would send Order immediately to Colonel Home, or whosoever else is the Commander of Belfast, presently to deliver that Town to such Persons as the Parliament of England shall appoint to receive the same.

Ordinances for Concurrence.

The Ordinance for issuing out of the Excise Fifteen Thousand Pounds, for the Forces under the Command of Colonel Massie, was read, and Agreed to.

(Here enter it.)

An Ordinance for paying out of the Excise Eight Hundred Fifty-five Pounds, Twelve Shillings, to Mr. Chandler, was read, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

Duke of York's Maintenance.

The Earl of Northumb. acquainted this House, "That the Duke of Yorke is come to St. James's."

And it is Ordered, That there might some Course be appointed and settled for his Maintenance; and that the House of Commons be desired to expedite this Business.

Ld. Stafford, a Pass.

Ordered, That the Lord Viscount Stafford shall have a Pass, to go into the Country, to see his Wife's Mother, and about his own Affairs.

Duke of York's Tutor and Household.

The Earl of Northumb. acquainted this House, "That the Committee for the regulating the Household of the King's Children have thought upon some Servants to be about the Duke of Yorke; and one Mr. Ascam, a Lyncolneshire Gentleman, is recommended by very good Hands to be Tutor to the Duke of Yorke; but his Lordship, conceiving it to be a Business of Importance, would not admit him without the Approbation of this House."

And this House left (fn. 2) it to his Lordship.

Serle and Brown.

Ordered, That Colonel Serle shall put in his Answer to Brown's Petition To-morrow Morning.

Colonel Hitch cock and Loftus.

Upon reading the Petition of Colonel Hitchcocke: It is Ordered, That Mr. Loftus shall either pay the Money, or shew Cause to this House to the contrary.

Tenants of Woking, Petition.

Upon reading the Petition of the Tenants of Woking, in the County of Surrey: It is Ordered, That the Party whom it concerns shall have a Copy of this Petition, and return his Answer to this House this Day Three Weeks.

Adventurers to Providence, &c. Petition for Reprisals on the Spaniards.

Upon reading the Petition of Randall Mainwaringe, Nath. Hawes, George Payne, and others; desiring, "to have Letters of Mart or Reprisal granted them, to be repaired for their Losses and Damages sustained by the Spaniard, out of the Money deposited with the Parliament, which was produced out of the S'ta Clara."

It is Ordered, To be recommended to the House of Commons.

Marlborough Ministers Ordinance.

The Ordinance concerning the Ministers at Marleborough, was read, and Agreed to; and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons, for their Concurrence.

Memorandum, That this Ordinance is passed with a salvo Juris cujuscunque.

Message to the H. C. about the Duke of York's Maintenance;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Aylett and Doctor Heath:

1. To let them know, that, the Duke of Yorke being now come to St. James', their Lordships think it fit that some Course may be settled for Means for his Maintenance.

and about the following Particulars.

2. To desire their Concurrence in the Ordinance concerning the Ministers of Marleborough.

3. To put them in Mind of the Order for settling the Chamberlain of Chester.

4. To let them know, that this House agrees with them, in sending to the Commissioners of Scotland, concerning the Garrison and Town of Belfast in Ireland.

5. To put them in Mind of releasing Mr. Murray from his Imprisonment.

Prynn's Ordinance to be Minister of Westburn.

The Ordinance for making Mr. Thomas Prynn Minister of Westburne, was read, and Agreed to, with a salvo Juris cujuscunque.

Ld. Mohun's Assessment.

Upon reading the Petition of the Lord Mohun; complaining, "The Committee in the Country have assessed him Four Hundred Pounds for his Fifth and Twentieth Part:" And he being a Peer of this Realm; it is Ordered, That the Committee of the County of Cornwall shall surcease and forbear to assess the Lord Mohun for his said Fifth and Twentieth Part, he being a Peer, and so is to be assessed by this House only.

Boyd to be re paid for his Goodsused for Public Service at Carickfergus.

Upon reading the Petition of Thomas Boyde, a Scotts Merchant, Inhabitant of Carickfergus, in Ireland:

It is Ordered, To be recommended to the House of Commons, that, seeing it appears by the Lord Inchequin's own Hand, that the Goods of the Petitioner were taken by the Lord Inchequin, and employed for the State, that some Course may be taken for the Payment of it, as in Justice it ought to (fn. 3) be.

Ordinance to continue the Northern Association.

The House took into Consideration the Ordinance brought from the House of Commons, for continuing the Ordinance for the Northern Association.

And the Question being put, " Whether to agree with the House of Commons in this Ordinance as it came up?"

Rejected.

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Protest against it.

Memorandum, That these Lords following, before the putting of the Question, demanded Leave of the House to enter their Dissent and Protestation, if this Question was carried against their Vote:

Message from the H. C. with Orders, &c.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Clatworthy Knight;

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in divers Orders and Ordinances:

1. An Order for Commissions to be granted to divers Officers, to raise Forces for Ireland.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will take this Message into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

L. Lt. of Ireland to raise a Regiment.

Ordered, That a new Ordinance be drawn up, to give Power to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to raise his Regiment, as is exprest in the Ordinance now brought up.

Letter from the Commissioners with the King, about the Delivery of the Propositions.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore.

"My Lord,

"Our Desires are, these may inform you, That, between Nine and Ten of the Clock this Thursday Morning, we came to Newcastle, and were, about an Hour and a Half after our Arrival, visited by the General the Earl of Leven, the Lord Chancellor of Scotland, and many other Scottish Lords and Gentlemen; and, after some private Conference between us and the Chancellor, it was agreed, that he should inform His Majesty of our being here, and humbly desire Him from us to appoint a Time when He would be pleased to receive the Propositions; which was done accordingly: And about Six of the Clock this Evening the Marquis of Argile brought us Word, That His Majesty would To-morrow after Dinner receive them. My Lord, We shall omit no Opportunity to give a speedy Dispatch; and will remain

Newcastle, 23 Julii , 1646.

"Your Lordship's humble Servants,

"Pembrook & Mount.

"Suffolk."

Letter from Ld. Seymour.

"To the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers. Present these.

"My Lord,

"My humble Suit unto your Lordship is, That you would be pleased to present this inclosed Petition to the Honourable House of Peers, by whose Order I am now restrained. I was Twice at your Lordship's House, before any Order was made in the Lords House, to have desired your Favour (being, as I understood, the Speaker of that House), to acquaint their Lordships with my being in Town; and that I was ready to wait upon them, to receive their Commands: And on Friday last, before I saw any Order, I was then attending on the House, to have made my Address unto their Lordships; so that your Lordship may see my Failing herein was rather my Misfortune than any wilful Neglect. If this Truth shall appear unto your Lordship, I shall hope to find your Favour and Mediation for the obtaining of my Liberty, and that I may stand right in the Opinion of that Honourable House; which shall oblige

July 29th, 1646.

"Your most humble Servant,

"F. Seymour."

His Petition to be freed from his Restraint.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords assembled in Parliament.

"The humble Petition of Francis Lord Seymour.

"By your Lordships Order to your Gentleman Usher, bearing Date the 22th of July, I find he is commanded to take into his Custody such Peers as have come out of the King's Garrisons, and have not made their Address to the House of Peers; by which Order, he told me, I now stand committed. It is true, I came out of Oxford, which was the King's Garrison, unto this Place, conceiving I might so do by the Pass of Sir Thomas Fairefax, and by the Articles of Agreement made at Oxford upon surrendering thereof, which I am ready to produce if your Lordships shall require it of me; nor could I doubt of Sir Thomas Fairefax' Power for the making good of his Pass and the Articles of Agreement made at Oxford, conceiving he had his Power of being General as much from your Lordships as from the House of Commons. If I am in this mistaken, I hope your Lordships will believe it was far from my Intentions to neglect or give Distaste to any; but shall be ready to give all due Respects unto this Honourable House. My Lords, having now set down the Truth of my Case, I shall submit it unto your Lordships farther Pleasure, with my humble Suit, that you will be pleased to take off my present Restraint.

"And I shall ever pray, &c.

"F. Seymour."

Williams to be Sheriff of Carnarvon.

"The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, do nominate and approve of Thomas Williams Esquire, to be Sheriff of the County of Carnarvon; and that the Commissioners for the Great Seal of England do issue a Commission for him to be Sheriff of the said County accordingly."

Merick to be Sheriff of Anglesey.

"The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament do nominate and approve of Richard Myrick Esquire, to be Sheriff of the County of Anglesey; and that the Commissioners for the Great Seal of England do issue a Commission to him to be Sheriff of the said County accordingly."

Order for Money for Colonel Massey's Forces in the Western Association.

"Whereas, by the Ordinance of Parliament dated the 20th of March, 1645, Twenty Thousand Pounds is assigned in Course, out of the Receipts of the Excise, upon the Ordinance of the 11th of September, 1643, for Six Weeks Pay to the Forces of the Western Association, under the Command of Colonel Massey, together with Interest after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Centum for the same, at the End of every Six Months, until full Payment thereof be made, whereof Four Thousand Five Hundred Pounds hath been already advanced and lent; and whereas Thomas Foote Esquire, Alderman of the City of London, and the rest of the Chief Commissioners of the Excise and new Impost, have advanced and lent Four Thousand Five Hundred Pounds, which hath been already advanced and lent; and whereas Thomas Foote Esquire, Alderman of the City of London, and the rest of the Chief Commissioners of the Excise and new Impost, have advanced and lent Fifteen Thousand Five Hundred Pounds, the Residue of the said Twenty Thousand Pounds, for the Service aforesaid: Be it Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the said Commissioners of Excise shall and may pay and reimburse themselves, and that their Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, shall be paid, satisfied, and reimbursed, the said Fifteen Thousand Five Hundred Pounds, together with Interest for the same, after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Centum, to be received at the End of every Six Months, and so proportionably for so long Time as the same or any Part thereof shall be unpaid or forborn, in the due Course of the said Ordinance of the 20th of March, 1645; and shall not, by any other Order or Ordinance of One or both Houses of Parliament, be debarred from satisfying themselves, or being satisfied, accordingly; and the said Commissioners of Excise are hereby authorized to pay the said Fifteen Thousand Five Hundred Pounds to Nathan Wright and Francis Lenthall, appointed Treasurers to receive and pay out these Monies by the said Ordinance, whose Receipt shall be their and every of their the said Commissioners sufficient Warrant and Discharge in that Behalf; as also this Ordinance shall be a sufficient Warrant for Repayment of the said Principal and Interest unto them the said Commissioners of Excise, their Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, according to this present Ordinance."

Order for 255 l. 125 to Mr. Chandler, lent by him in Ireland.

"It is this Day Ordered and Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Sum of Eight Hundred Fifty-five Pounds, Twelve Shillings, with Interest after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Centum per Annum for the Forbearance thereof, from the 20th Day of April, Anno Domini 1646, be paid in Course, out of the Receipts of the Grand Excise, unto Richard Chandler, of London, Merchant, his Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, for Monies borrowed and taken up of him and others, in Ireland, by Mr. Robert Reynolds and Mr. Robert Goodwin, Members of the House of Commons, for the Service, and by the Order, of the Parliament of England; and the Commissioners of the Excise and new Impost for the Time being are hereby required and authorized to make Payment of the said Eight Hundred Fiftyfive Pounds, Twelve Shillings, together with the Interest for the Forbearance thereof, after the Rate aforesaid, from the said 20th Day of April, in Course, unto the said Richard Chandler, his Executors, Administrators, or Assigns; and his, their, or any of their Receipts for the same shall be a sufficient Discharge unto the said Commissioners, and every of them, in that Behalf."

State of the Business concerning the Delivery of Belfast by the Scots to the English.

"1. By Order of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, of the 13th of November, 1645, the Commissioners residing in Ulster for the Parliament of England are directed to require, from the Officers that keep the Town of Belfast, the Delivery thereof to such as shall be appointed by the Parliament, or any Committee authorized by them, to receive the same.

"2. By a Letter from both Houses of the Parliament of England, of the 29th of November 1645, the Parliament of Scotland is desired, lest there should be any Failure in the former Order (whereupon so much of the good Conduct of that Affair dependeth), that their Directions and Orders may be sent to the Officers commanding in Ireland, that the Town of Belfast be delivered, according to the former Order, by the 11th of January following, for the Accommodation of that Service.

"3. In Answer to the Order of the 13th of November, 1645, Colonel Home, that commanded Belfast, in the Name of himself and the rest of those Officers, taking Notice of the aforesaid Order, crave Patience until such Time as they acquaint the State of Scotland and their General.

"This Answer bears Date the 26th of December, 1645.

"4. An Answer to the Letter dated the 29th of November, 1645, from the Parliament of England. The Earl of Crawford Lindsey, President of Parliament, by his Letter of the 8th of January, 1646 (Stilo Scotico), and directed to the Speakers of both Houses of the Parliament of England, after taking Notice of the Letter from the Parliament of England, of the 29th of November, 1645, gives Answer, That they might return a speedy and full Answer immediately to the Parliament of England, they had dispatched an Express to Ireland, to know from them that commanded the Scotts Army the Ground whereupon that Town was first inserted, and since fortified and kept by them; and so rest confident, that, when the Houses consider the Season of the Year, and uncertain Passage 'twixt Scotland and Ireland, they will not mistake the Delay of their Answer, which they will labour to hasten to the Parliament of England with all Diligence.

"The Parliament of England hath received no other Answer from the Parliament of Scotland since that Time; but understanding, by the Commissioners from the Parliament of England, that One of the Captains of the Town of Belfast was dispatched thence, to acquaint the State of Scotland with the Order of the Parliament sent into Ireland, they patiently expected that Return; and about the 28th of February, 1645, they received a Second Answer from Colonel Home, dated the 17th of February, which mentions that the State of Scotland had written back to the Commissioners of Scotland at London so satisfactory Answer to be given to the Parliament, that they doubt not but will give them all Content; and, until he hears from thence, desires to be excused.

"Now, forasmuch as the Town of Belfast is not yet delivered according to the several Orders of both Houses of the Parliament of England, and that the Commissioners of Scotland residing here at London have been so far from giving any such satisfactory Answer to the Parliament as is mentioned in the Letter of Colonel Home of the 17th of February last, that they have not given any Answer at all:

"Therefore it is the Desire and Demand of both Houses of the Parliament of England, That the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland do immediately send Order to Colonel Home, or whosoever else is the Commander of Belfast, presently to deliver that Town to such Persons as the Parliament of England shall appoint to receive the same."

Letter to the Parliament of Scotland, desiring they would order their Officers in Ireland to deliver Belfast to the English.

"My Lords,

"The Houses of Parliament having received a Representation of the State of their Affairs in the North of Ireland, and being in Consideration how they may make Preparations against the ensuing Spring for the carrying on of the War to the Encouragement of the British Forces in those Parts, have commanded us to signify unto you, That both Houses have ordered their Commissioners lately sent into those Parts to demand and receive the Town of Belfast from the Officers of the Scottish Army, for the Quartering of some of the Brittish Forces there; and lest there should be any Failure hereof, whereupon so much of the good Conduct of that Affair depends, we (fn. 4) are commanded, in the Name of the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England, to demand, and in their Names we do demand, That your Direction and Orders may be sent to such Officer as commands the Scottish Army in Chief within that Province, that the Town of Belfast be delivered over to the Commissioners sent from this Parliament, to be disposed of for the best Accommodation of that Service; and desire that the Town may be delivered accordingly by the 11th of January next. This being all we have in Charge at present, wishing much Happiness and Prosperity to your Proceedings, we rest

"Your Lordships

"Affectionate Friends and humble Servants,

Dated 29th of Nov. 1645.

"Grey of Warke, &c.

"Wm. Lenthall, &c."

Answer from the Parliament of Scotland.

"My Lords,

"Wee have, upon the 20th of December, received a Letter of yours, dated the 29th of November last, signifying unto us, That the Houses of Parliament have ordained their Commissioners to demaund and receive the Towne of Belfast from the Officers of the Scotts Army, for Quarteringe the Brittish Forces there; and that, least there should bee any Failer thereof, you are commaunded, in the Name of the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England, to demaund, and that you doe demaund, our Orders and Direction to bee sent to such Officer as commaunds the Scotts Army in Cheife within that Province, that the Towne of Belfast bee delivered over to the Commissioners of the Parliament of England by the 11th of January next: Whereupon, that wee might bee the more able to retourne your Lordships a speedy and full Answere, immediatly after the Receipt of your Lordships Letter wee dispatched an Expresse to Ireland, that, from those that commaund the Scotts Army there for the present, wee might knowe the Occasion and Ground whereupon that Towne was first incerted, and since fortifyed and kept by them; and wee are confident the Honnorable Houses, when they shall consider the Season of the Yeare, and uncertaine Passage betwixt this and Ireland, will not mistake the Delay of our Answere to their Desires upon soe just Grounds, which wee shall labour to hast to them with all Diligence. This wee desire your Lordships to represent to them from

"Your affectionate Freinds and Servaunts,

St. Andrewes, 8 January, 1646, Stil. Scot.

"Craford Lindsay, President of Parliament.

"For the Right Honnorable the Speakers of both Houses of the Parliament of England."

Answer of the Scots Officers in Belfast to the Parliament's Order for delivering that Town to the English.

"Upon Sight of One Order from the Parliament of England, dated the 13th of November, 1645, directed to the Officers in Belfast; it is answered, Wee humbly crave Patience unto such Tyme as wee acquaint the State of Scotland and our Generall.

"Dated the 26th of Dec. 1645.

"R. Home."

ad Answer.

"Whereas there was a Letter presented to us, the Officers of Belfast, by the Commissioners of the Par liament of England, for surrendring upp of our Garrison of Belfast; upon Sight whereof it was answered, by the Colonell and his Officers, That they could doe nothing therein till they acquainted the State of Scotland, which they did, by sendinge One of the Captaines to acquaint the State therewith; who was answered, That, before he came, they had received a Coppy of the said Letter from their Commissioners residing beside the Parliament; and had written back to the Commissioners soe sattisfactory an Answere to bee given to the Parliament, that they doubt not but will give them all Content: Soe, till wee heare from thence, wee earnestly entreate to hould us excused, seing the giveing Answere doth not depend upon us.

"Dated at Belfast, the 17th of Febr. 1646.

"R. Home."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10^a cras.