House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 25 December 1645

DIE Jovis, 25 die Decembris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Dury.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Edw. Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Ordinance to indemnify Persons that shall reduce Maryland.

The Earl of Warwicke reported a Paper from the Committee of Foreign Plantations, concerning Maryland, which was read; and it is referred to the Committee for Foreign Plantations, to prepare an Ordinance for the Indemnity of such as shall act any Thing for the Public in reducing that Plantation.

Earl of Leicester's Park.

Upon reading a Letter to the Speaker of this House, from the Committee of Kent, concerning the Earl of Leycester's Park: It is referred to the Consideration of the Committee for Privileges, to report their Opinion thereof to this House. (Here enter the Letter.)

Papers between the Committee of both Houses and the Scots Commissioners about the Answer to the King's Letter.

The Lord Wharton reported divers Papers from the Committee of both Kingdoms; (videlicet,)

"Die Mercurii, 24 Decembris, 1645.

"At the Committee of both Houses appointed to treat with the Scotts Commissioners.

"Ordered, That the Paper of the Scotts Commissioners of the 24th, and our Paper of the same Date for Explication thereof, and what Paper the Scotts shall send in Answer thereto, be reported to both Houses.

"The Scotts Paper.

"Your Lordships having communicated unto us Yesterday a new Draught of an Answere to be returned to His Majesty's Letters; we have resolved to offer nothing that may retard the present Dispatch thereof; yet doe still adhere to the Desires contayned in our severall Papers delivered unto your Lordships for hastning of a happy Peace.

"By Comand of the Comissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

"Jo. Cheislie.

"English Paper.

"Upon the Consideration of your Lordships Paper of the 24th Instant, we desire to know whether your Meaning therein be, that you give your Consents to the present sending to His Majesty of the Letter by us communicated Yesterday to your Lordships, to be signed by the Speakers of both Houses of Parliament, in Answer to His Majesty's Two Letters of the 5th and 15 of Decemb. Instant.

24 Dec. 1645.

"By Command of the Committee of both Houses to treat with the Scotts Commissioners.

"Gualter Frost,

"Secretary to the same Committee.

"Although we know not the Reason why, according to our Desire, and the usuall Practice in such Cases formerly, the Answere to His Majesty's Letters was not drawne by mutuall Councell and Consent; yet, being still unwilling that any Thinge should proceede from us that may be the least Occasion of Hinderance or Delay of that which we have soe much pressed, and is soe necessary to both Kingdomes; and there being nothing in the Draught of the Answere comunicated unto us inconsistant with our Desires contained in our late Papers, especially that which putteth a Difference betwixt the Manner of sending the Propositions formerly agreed upon by both Kingdomes, and such materiall Alterations and Additions as are yet unknowne to the Parliament of Scotland, unto which Desires we doe adhere: We are willing that the Letter comunicated unto us the 23th of this Instant, being signed by the Speakers of both Houses of Parliament, be presently sent to His Majesty, in Answere to His Majesty's Letters of the 5th and 15th of this instant Decemb.

25 Dec. 1645.

"By Comand of the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland.

"Jo. Cheisly."

Letter to the King to be sent away.

Ordered, That the Letter to the King be sent away this Afternoon, by Sir Peter Killegrew and a Trumpeter; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons desired herein.

Message to the H. C. about it; and with the preceding Papers.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edw. Leech and Mr. Page:

To desire their Concurrence, that the Answer to the King's Letters be sent away this Afternoon, by Sir Peter Killegrew with a Trumpeter; and to communicate to them the Papers reported this Day from the Committee of both Kingdoms.

Message from thence, about sending away the Answer to the King; and with Ordinances.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Christopher Yelverton, &c.

1. To desire their Lordships Concurrence, that it may be referred to the Committee of both Kingdoms, to send away the Answer to the King's Letters.

Agreed to.

2. An Ordinance for Six Thousand Pounds for Hereford. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. An Ordinance for allowing the Lord Viscount Say & Seale Two Thousand Pounds per Annum.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Ordinance for paying Thirty-nine Pounds, out of Haberdashers Hall, to Major Russell. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

5. An Ordinance for the Lady Cawfield to have Walsingham House to live in, Rent-free; and Two Hundred Pounds at Campden House. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

6. An Order for paying One Hundred and Three Pounds, out of Haberdashers Hall, for Jane Withers Widow. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

7. An Order for to pay Two Thousand Five Hundred Pounds to Mr. Serle, out of such Malignants Estates as he shall discover.

Respited.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, to the Order concerning Mr. Serle: To all the rest, this House (fn. 1) agrees.

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Pelham, &c.

To desire Concurrence in an Ordinance for One Thousand Pounds for the Garrison of Crowland.

(Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Message now brought up.

Blake and Rolfe.

Ordered, That, if Cause be not shewed to this House by Monday come Sevennight, then the Cause between Rolfe and Blake is to be dismissed this House.

Declaration, that Persons who discovers Malignants Estates shall not have the Benefit of those who come into Goldsmiths Hall.

It was moved, "That a Declaration should be made, That such Persons as have the Benefit of the Discovery of Malignants Estates shall not have Liberty of the Discovery of any Persons that come into Gouldsmithes Hall to enter their Names there; and that such Persons as are to have the Benefit of such Discoveries are to give in the Names, within Six Days after they have obtained such Leave, to the Committee at Haberdashers Hall:"

All which was referred to these Lords following, to draw up a Declaration to this Purpose, and present the same to this House:

Any Three, to meet when they please.

Ordinance for the Commissioners of Excise to reimburse themselves 6000l. which they are to advance for Hereford.

Whereas Thomas Foote Esquire, Alderman of the City of London, and the rest of the Commissioners of Excise and new Impost, have consented to advance and lend the Sum of Six Thousand Pounds, for the Service of Hereford: Be it Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament, That the said Commissioners of Excise shall and may satisfy and reimburse themselves, and that their Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, shall and may be satisfied and reimbursed, the said Six Thousand Pounds, together with Interest for the same, after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Cent. for so long Time as the same, or any Part thereof, shall be forborn, out of such Intervals of Receipts, to come in upon the Ordinance of the 11th of September, 1643, as shall happen when other Assignments already made on those Receipts shall not fall due, or, in Default thereof, then as the same shall follow in Course; and shall not, by any other Order or Ordinance of One or both Houses of Parliament, be debarred from sa tisfying themselves, or being satisfied, accordingly: And the Commissioners of Excise are hereby authorized to pay the said Six Thousand Pounds to Mr. Walter Frost, Secretary to the Committee of both Kingdoms, or his Assigns, whose Receipt or Receipts shall be a sufficient Discharge to the Commissioners of Excise for the said Six Thousand Pounds, and every Part thereof: And it is further Ordained, That in case the said Six Thousand Pounds and Interest, or any Part thereof, shall not be reimbursed and paid unto the said Commissioners, in the Intervals or Course of this present Year, ending the 11th of September, 1646, that then the said Commissioners of Excise, their Executors and Administrators, shall be reimbursed and paid, cut of the farther Receipts of the Excise, by the Commissioners for the Time being, according to the true Intent and Meaning of this Ordinance; and the Commissioners of Excise for the Time being are hereby authorized to make Payment of the said Sum and Interest accordingly."

Order for 2000ls. per Annum to L. Say & Seale.

"The Lords and Commons now assembled in Parliament, taking into their Consideration the great Damage that William Lord Viscount Say & Seale hath sustained, in his Read and Personal Estate, since the Beginning of this War, his chief Mansion-house being in the County of Oxon, and his Lands lying in that and the County of Gloucester, under the Power of the Enemy; and being also very sensible that the same hath been occasioned upon him in regard of the great and constant Zeal and Affection which he hath always fully manifested upon all Occasions to the Public Good and Welfare of this Kingdom, as well before as since the Beginning of this present Parliament: The Lords and Commons do Order and Ordain, and be it Ordered and Ordained by the said Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That, for the Support and Maintenance of the said Viscount, there shall be paid unto him, out of the Monies arising and accruing to the King and Parliament, or by reason of the Court of Wards and Liveries, or to be paid in Consideration of taking away of the said Court, the Yearly Sum of Two Thousand Pounds, during the Pleasure of both Houses of Parliament, to be paid by Quarterly Payments, at or upon the 29th Day of September, the 25th Day of December, the 25th Day of March, and the 25th Day of June, by equal Portions respectively, the First Payment whereof to be paid and commence from the 29th Day of September now last past: And the said Lords and Commons do further Order and Ordain, That the Receiver of the said Court of Wards and Liveries for the Time being during the Continuance of the said Receipt, and such other Person and Persons as shall hereafter from Time to Time be appointed to receive the Monies or Revenues to be answered and paid for or in Lieu of the Monies or Revenues now accruing by reason of the said Court, and every of them, are hereby required and authorized to issue and pay the said Sum to the said Lord Viscount Say & Seale, or his Assigns, according to the true Meaning and Purport of this present Ordinance; and the Receipt of the said Lord Viscount Say & Seale, under his Hand, shall be to the said Receiver, and every other Person and Persons to whom it shall or may appertain, a sufficient Warrant for the Payment thereof."

Order for 39l. to Major Russel.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Committee of Lords and Commons for Advance of Monies sitting in Habberdashers Hall do pay unto Major Russell the Sum of Thirty-nine Pounds, due to him from the State, according to the Certificate from the Committee of Accompts."

Order for Lady Cawfield to have Walsingham House and 200l.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Lady Cawfeild shall have the House called Walsingham House, where she now liveth, Rent-free, the same being a sequestered House; and that the Committee at Campden House do pay unto the said Lady the Sum of Two Hundred Pounds, for her present Support."

Order for 103l. to Mrs. Withers.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Committee of Lords and Commons for Advance of Monies sitting at Habberdashers Hall do forthwith pay unto Joane Withers Widow the Sum of One Hundred and Three Pounds, in full of all Demands due to Edward Withers her Husband, deceased, for his Service to the Parliament, under Major Purbecke Temple."

Order for the Commissioners of the Excise to repay themselves 1000l. advanced for Crowland.

"Whereas Thomas Foote Esquire, Alderman of the City of London, and the rest of the Commissioners of Excise and new Impost, have advanced and lent the Sum of One Thousand Pounds, for the Use of the Garrison of Croyland: Be it Ordained by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the said Commissioners of Excise may satisfy and reimburse themselves, and that their Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, shall and may be satisfied and paid, the said One Thousand Pounds, with Interest for the same, after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Centum per Annum, for so long Time as the same, or any Part thereof, shall be forborn, out of such Intervals of Receipts, upon the Ordinance of the 11th of September, 1643, as shall happen when other Payments already assigned on those Receipts shall not fall due, or, for Want of such Intervals, then as the same shall follow in Course, out of the said Receipts of the Excise; and the Commissioners of Excise are hereby authorized to pay the said One Thousand Pounds, for the Use aforesaid, unto Thomas Toll Esquire, a Member of the House of Commons, whose Receipt, together with this Ordinance, shall be a sufficient Discharge to the Commissioners of Excise, and every of them, in that Behalf: And it is further Ordained, That if the said One Thousand Pounds and Interest, or any Part thereof, shall not be satisfied and paid, in the Course of this present Year, ending the 11th of September, 1646, that then the said Commissioners of Excise, their Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, shall be satisfied and paid the said Principal and Interest, out of the further Receipts of Excise, that shall come in upon the said Ordinance of the 11th of September, 1643, by the Commissioners of Excise for the Time being, who are hereby authorized and required to make Payment of the said One Thousand Pounds and Interest, and every Part thereof, accordingly: Provided, That the Ordinance bearing Date Monday the 24th November, 1645, charging a Thousand Pounds upon the Excise for the Garrison of Croyland, be, and is hereby, vacated, nulled, and revoked."

"Die Veneris, 28 Novembr. 1645.

Paper from the Committee for Plantations, about reducing Maryland; and for an Indemnification for Persons employed for that Service.

"At the Committee of Lords and Commons for Foreign Plantations.

"The Petition of divers the Inhabitants of Maryland was this Day read; setting forth, the Tyrannical Government of that Province, ever since its first settling, by Recusants, who have reduced and forced many of His Majesty's Subjects from their Religion; and humbly praying the Assistance and Protection of the Parliament, by appointing such a Government as they shall think fit.

Upon Consideration whereof, as also of the Letters Patents whereby His Majesty in the Eighth Year of His Reign granted the said Province to Cecill Calvert Baron of Baltimore, and of a Certificate from the Judge of the Admiralty (grounded upon Depositions of Witnesses taken in that Court), That Leonard Calvert late Governor there had a Commission from Oxford, to seize such Persons, Ships, and Goods, as belonged to any of London; which he registered, proclaimed, and endeavoured to put in Execution, at Virginia; and that one Brent, his Deputy Governor, had seized upon a Ship employed under Commission derived from the Parliament, because she was of London, and afterwards not only tampered with the Company thereof to carry her to Bristoll, then in Hostility against the Parliament, but also tendered them an Oath against the Parliament: This Committee doth therefore conceive, that not only the said Governor and Deputy Governor are unfit to be longer continued in the said Charge, but also that the Lord Baltimore hath broken the Trust reposed in them by the said Letters Patents; and that it will be a very good Service to have the said Plantation and Government settled in Protestants Hands by Ordinance of Parliament: And it is Ordered, That a Report be made of this Matter to both Houses, that their Pleasure may be received therein; and for that Captain Ingle lies under the Trouble of many Suits here, for Matters done in Maryland for the Parliament's Service, the Houses are therefore to be moved, to make Provision, by Ordinance, for exempting from under Prosecution here, all Persons that shall be employed in the settling and executing of the said Government, for Matters referring to the said Government, by referring the same to a Committee of Parliament, or otherwise in such Sort as to the Wisdom of the Houses it shall appear meet. And the Earl of Warwicke is desired to make Report thereof to the House of Peers.

"W. Jessop, Secretary."

Letter from the Committee of Kent, about exempting the Earl of Leicester's Park from Assessments.

"To the Right Honourable the Lord Gray of Warke, Speaker of the Right Honourable the House of Peers. Present.

"Right Honourable,

"We had the Copy of an Order or Warrant sent by One of our Treasurers, signed by the Clerk of your Honourable House, for the Exemption of the Earl of Lecester's Park, commanding all Committees to yield their Obedience, as they will answer to the contrary at their Perils.

"We shall desire your Lordships to remember, that Sir Thomas Fairefax's Ordinance exempts not Crown Lands, therefore surely not any Subjects whatsoever.

"And we humbly conceive you will not think it Justice or Reason, that every poor Man be taxed for Five or Ten Pounds per Annum, charged with so many Children as Pounds, out of their Necessity, and my Lord's Park exempted out of Superfluity; and however in Times of Peace such Exemption may be, yet Times of this general Calamity (fn. 2) will admit of no such Difference.

"Neither can we think that your Lordships will extend the Privileges of Peerage beyond the Prerogative of Monarchy itself, which, by the fundamental Laws of this Kingdom (for which now we fight), may not intrench upon the Property or Right of any Private Person, or any Ways to work a Grievance to the Subject.

"And truly, my Lords, our County is not in so settled a Condition, that we can think any such Exemption once divulged may be safe for the County, his Lordship, or ourselves (both the Insurrections arising from less Motives).

"It hath not been the least of our Endeavours to preserve the Parks in this County from that Violence offered in others (which surely should we not have done, had we believed it should have turned to the County's Charge), when the Disparking might have proved a Benefit.

"We humbly therefore crave Pardon, if in this we answer not your Lordships Expectation; though in all Things (not prejudicial to the County) none shall be more observant of your Lordships Commands than

Maidstone, 23 Dec. 1645.

"Your Lordships most humble Servants,

"A. Miller.
Edw.Monings.
John Rivers.
"H. Blount.
Antho. Weldon.
"Wm. James.
Tho. Peirs.
Rob't Seon.
"John Bix.
Wm. Renwick.
Lambert Godfrey."