House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 12 August 1689

Lunæ, 12 die Augusti; 1° Gulielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Supply Bill Dutch Expedition.

AN ingrossed Bill for appropriating Monies for paying the States General of the United Provinces their Charges for his Majesty's Expedition into this Kingdom, and for other Uses, was read the Third time.

An Amendment was proposed to be made, Press 2, Line 23, by inserting "Sum of;" and Press 2, Line 15, by inserting "from and after the Nine-and-twentieth Day of September 1689:"

Both which were, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House: And the Bill amended at the Table accordingly.

A Petition of several Noblemen, Peers of the Realm, who were domestick Servants of the late King Charles the Second, in Behalf of themselves, and others his Majesty's Servants, their Widows and Orphans, was read; setting forth, That the Petitioners are respectively intitled to several Sums, due for Wages, as domestic Servants to his said Majesty; for Payment whereof, Provision was made by Act of Parliament, 1° Jac. II^di, for granting an Imposition upon all Tobacco and Sugar imported, between the Twenty-fourth Day of June 1685 and Twenty-fourth Day of June 1693: And being informed, That a Bill is passing this House, whereby Sixty thousand Pounds only of the said Revenue is applied for Payment of the said Wages; whereas a much greater Sum is due: And the Residue of the said Revenue being intended to be applied to other Uses: And praying to be heard at the Bar of this House, by their Counsel, before the said Bill passeth; to shew Cause, Why the said Revenue should be applied to the Payment of the Petitioners Salaries, due from King Charles, before the said Revenue be applied to other Uses.-

Resolved, Nemine contradicente, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for appropriating certain Duties for paying the States General of the United Provinces their Charges for his Majesty's Expedition into this Kingdom, and for other Uses.

Ordered, That Mr. Hamden do carry up the Bill to the Lords for their Concurrence.

Privilege-a person discharged from custody.

Thomas Bond, in Custody of the Serjeant at Arms, was brought to the Bar, and had the Reprimand of the House from Mr. Speaker: And thereupon was discharged out of Custody.

Irish Affairs; Defence of Londonderry.

Sir Thomas Littleton reports from the Committee appointed to inquire into the Miscarriages relating to Ireland and Londonderry, That the Committee had examined several Witnesses; but came to no Resolutions thereupon: But had directed him to report the Matter specially to the House, How they found the same; viz.

That the Lord Kingston, for many Months, had maintained the Town of Sligoe, and the Country thereabouts, for the Protestant Interest, till, April Thirteenth, Colonel Lundee, the Governor of Londonderry, writ to him, to advance from thence with what Force he could, to join the rest of the Protestants, and oppose the late King James's Army from passing the Fin Water.

Lord Kingston, Major Vaughan, Cornet Nicholson, Hen. Nicholson.-That thereupon the Lord Kingston came with One thousand Horse and Foot as far as Ballyshannon, where he staid for further Orders, but could get none, till the Enemy got between that Place and Londonderry, whereby all Communication was intercepted.

That by this means the Lord Kingston's Forces were dispersed, and the best Regiment of Horse the Protestants had, broken; besides the Town of Sligoe, and all That Country, possessed by the Enemy.

Lieutenant Colonel Swan informed the Committee, That he and Mr. Walker, and others, persuaded Captain Williams to keep the Fort at Dungannon, where they raised a Foot Company, and Two Troops of Horse.

That Mr. Walker went from thence to Londonderry to consult Colonel Lundie; who promised to send Forces and Guns thither, to make the Town the Frontier Garison against the Enemy, who held Charlemont within Five Miles.

That, upon this Encouragement from Colonel Lundee, the Country People fortified Dungannon, and brought in great Store of Provisions; particularly Two thousand Pounds worth of Oatmeal and other Grain.

That, the Sixteenth March, Colonel Lundie wrote a Letter to Colonel Steward, the Governor of Dungannon, in which he gave him Orders to quit the Town; and that Mr. Walker, and others, saw this Letter.

That the Town was deserted, pursuant to these Orders, and all the Provisions left in it; which the Enemy from Charlemont possessed themselves of; being at that very time ready to starve, and could not have held their own Garisons much longer for want of Provisions, if this had not been.

Mr. James Hamilton.-The Committee find, That Mr. James Hamilton, who was employed with Arms, Money, and Ammunition, from England to Londonderry, arrived there the One-and-twentieth of March; and immediately wrote to Colonel Lundie, to come aboard his Ship: Who came accordingly, and brought divers Gentlemen along with him: That Colonel Lundie there took the Oaths to be true to King William, before his Commission was delivered to him: But the Mayor of Londonderry was not present, being gone into the Irish Army: And the Deputy Mayor was suspected for a Papist at that time.

That Colonel Stewart, Captain Mervyn, and Captain Corry, were all present when Colonel Lundie took the Oaths.

As to this particular Matter, Sir Arthur Royden informed the Committee, upon his Examination, That himself and Captain Beverly, who commanded the Jersey, Frigate, and divers others, were put out of the Cabin at that time, under Pretence that Colonel Lundie, and Mr. James Hamilton had private Business.

That Mr. Hamilton told them afterwards, That he had sworn Colonel Lundie; but the Mayor and Aldermen were not present.

That the next Day he, and most of the Officers and Gentry, did take the Oaths: And that they desired, for their Satisfaction, That Colonel Lundie might be sworn again: But it was refused.

Mr. James Hamilton said, That Colonel Lundie did assist at the swearing all the Garison; and likewise at the Proclaiming of King William, which was done March the Two-and-twentieth.

That Mr. Hamilton delivered all the Arms and Ammunition which he had in Charge; and, whereas he had Orders to receive One thousand Pounds from Mr. Anderton, at Chester, he could get but Five hundred Ninety-five Pounds Sixteen Shillings and Eight-pence, which he paid to Colonel Lundie, pursuant to his Instructions; and produced his Receipt for it.

And, upon the whole, the Committee seemed satisfied, That Mr. Hamilton had given a good Account of himself.

The Committee find, That, Thirteenth April, the Enemy first appeared before Londonderry, marching within Sight of the Town, with the Vaunt Guard of their Horse: Whereupon a Council of War was called that Afternoon, and a Resolution taken to march, the Monday following, out, and fight the Enemy; the People being very willing and desirous so to do.

Daniel Sherrard informed the Committee, That, at this time, when the Enemy appeared near the Town, the Gunner had no Ammunition to fire at them, as the Gunner himself then told him.

There were Three Passes, called Claddyford, Sifford and Long Lawsey, where all, from Sixteen to Sixty were ordered to meet on Monday, April the Fifteenth, to stop the Enemy from advancing further towards Londonderry.

That Colonel Lundie marched out with great Part of the Garison; and likewise great Numbers of other Protestants did meet thereabouts.

Lord Blaney.-That, upon the Enemy's coming near the Passes, the Protestants all run in great Confusion; no Order was either given or observed.

That Colonel Lundie was looked upon to be the Commander in Chief; but there was no Sort of Care taken, few of the Men having Powder; nor was there Three Guns fired, before they were all routed.

Mr. Bennet.-That Colonel Lundie himself was one of the first that fled; bidding the Men shift for themselves, and saying, All was lost.

Colonel Chichester met Colonel Lundee running from the Pass; and told him, He must tarry, and give some Orders, or all would be lost: To which Colonel Lundee replied, That Londonderry was his Post; and so made the best of his Way thither.

That Colonel Lundie, when he came to Londonderry, let in only some few, as he pleased, and shut the Gates against the rest, who were Four or Five thousand; that lay without the Walls all that Night, exposed to the Enemy.

Mr. David Carnes.-Believes the Enemy had Notice, someway or other, of the Resolution taken on Saturday, April Thirteenth, at the Council of War; because they marched immediately to the very Place where the Protestants were to meet: Upon the which, he went to Colonel Lundie, and acquainted him with it; and pressed him to march presently, that the Enemy might not first get thither: But he slighted his Advice; and said, He had taken sufficient Care: But yet never marched till Monday Morning, Ten of the Clock.

Major Joseph Stroud said, That he advised, that some Harrows might be thrown into Claddy Ford; but he took no care about it: That when he drew up what Men he could, to make Opposition against the Enemy, they cried out, They wanted Powder; and most of them wanted Arms.

Mr. Bennet; That there was no Breast Work, or other Defence whatsoever, at any of these Passes, to save the Men, or hindering the Enemy from coming over.

It appeared to the Committee, That the same Day the Fight was at Claddy Ford, Colonel Cunningham, and Colonel Richards, arrived in Londonderry River, with the Two Regiments under their Command; viz. Aprilis, 15.

That Colonel Cuningham wrote Two Letters presently to Colonel Lundie; the Import of which Letters were, to acquaint him with his Arrival with Two fresh Regiments; and to know in what Condition the Town stood; and that he staid for further Orders: But, receiving no Answer to these Letters, about Nine a Clock at Night, he sent Major Tiffany up to the Governor with a Third Letter to the same Purpose.

That Major Tiffany, as he went, met Colonel Lundie's Messenger carrying an Answer to the Two former Letters; and took him back with him to Londonderry; where Colonel Lundie opened his own Letter again, which he had sent; and inserted a Postscript in it: The Purport of his Letter was, That Colonel Cuningham should land the Two Regiments, as soon as he could; and that he would give them the best Accommodation the Town afforded. In the Postscript, he confirms the same Orders, as to landing the Men; but intimates, That when they should discourse together, the Place would be found not tenable; and so refers him further to the Bearer, which was Major Tiffany, that carried this Letter.

That the next Morning, Tuesday the Sixteenth, Colonel Cuningham sent to Colonel Richards, to bring Three or Four of his Officers along with him; and he taking the like Number of his own, they went all up to Londonderry, leaving the Men aboard the Ships.

That they went directly to the Governor's House, where they met a great Number of the Gentry and Officers, that were then in Town. And Colonel Richards said, That Colonel Cuningham, and the Governor, whispered together at the Window; but knows not what they said.

That in a short time after their Arrival, Colonel Lundie proposed to go to a Council of War, in the Council Chamber: Whither they went accordingly.

That Colonel Lundie did refuse to admit divers of the Officers, who did use to come to former Councils; particularly Colonel Hamilton, Colonel Chichester, Major Walker, and Major Baker: And that Colonel Chichester, and Major Walker, endeavouring to thrust into the Room, Colonel Lundie ordered them to be kept out; saying, They were to be a select Company.

Colonel Lundie was the first Man that spoke at this Council of War; and made a Proposition to quit the Town, and send the Two Regiments Back again; alleging, for his Reason, That there was not above a Week or Ten Days Provision left in the Town; and that the Enemy was Five-and-twenty thousand strong, and within Four or Five Miles.

Irish Affairs; Defence of Londonderry.

That this Proposition was consented to by all present, without any Contradiction; saving, that Colonel Richards says, He opposed it by saying, "Quitting the Town, was quitting of a Kingdom:" Whereupon one present rose up, and swore he would be hanged for no Man's Pleasure; which, he thinks, was Major Tiffany: And another said, He would go Home, let who would be displeased; which, he thinks, might be Colonel Cuningham; but is not positive.

That all present subscribed a Paper of their Consent to quit the Town; which Paper began in these Words; "Finding, upon Inquiry, that there was not above a Week or Ten Days Provision, &c." Whereas, in Truth, no Inquiry was made at the Council of War; but all present took the Governor's Word for it; who did inform them, that he had searched the Stores.

That they did all agree afterwards, upon their Honour, not to discover what Resolution they had taken. Colonel Richards says, The Governor did propose an Oath of Secrecy; which, he first refusing, was rejected.

The Lord Blaney said, There was a Proposition made to destroy all the Ammunition left in the Town: Which the Governor approved; saying, it was better so to do, than to let it fall into the Enemy's Hand: But nothing was resolved as to this Matter.

Cornet Nicholson said, That there was at this time, great Store of Provisions in the Town; every House having great plenty: That Provisions came daily into the Town in Boats, sufficient, at this time, for Three Months, for Three thousand men; as Colonel Lundie himself told the Lord Blaney, but a very little while before this Council of War was held.

That, after this Council of War was up, the People was very desirous of knowing what Resolutions they had taken: And, the more to amuse them, it was generally reported, That they had resolved to land the Men immediately, and march them into the Town.

Colonel Chichester said, That, that afternoon, Colonel Cuningham and Colonel Richards, and most of the Gentry and Officers that were present at the Council of War, went down to the Ships, as the People thought, to bring up the Men: But, when they saw the Ships fall down lower from the Town, they first took the Alarm; and cried out, They were betrayed.

That the Governor, Colonel Lundie, said the Council of War had resolved the Men should be landed: And to make it the more credible, pretended to give some Orders about Quarters. And, when so many Gentlemens going down to the Ships frighted the Town's People; he said, They went only to see the Men land.

The Committee find, That when the Ships fell so far down, that it appeared plainly there was no Intention of landing Men, the People then went, and beset Colonel Lundie's House; and, from that time, watched him so close, that he could not make his Escape to the Ships, which staid for him; yet, that he sent to Colonel Cuningham not to go away without him, lest he became a Sacrifice to the Rabble.

That the Ships came back to Liverpoole, with most of the Officers, and Gentry, belonging to the Town: But Colonel Lundic was left behind at Londonderry; from whence he after made his Escape into Scotland, in a private Soldier's Habit.

Upon Tuesday, April the 16th, there came one Whitloe, the Minister of Raffoe, to Londonderry, from Lieutenant General Hamilton, to propose a Treaty for the Surrender of the Town. The next Day, another Council of War held; where this Whitloe was present; and sat near the Governor.

Irish Affairs; Defence of Londonderry.

The Archdeacon Hamilton, Captain Kynaston, and Mr. Francis Nevill, were sent out by the Town to Lieutenant General Hamilton, to see What Terms they could get.

They received but one Article; viz. To surrender the Town, their serviceable Horses, and Arms; and they might live peaceably: Which Article they had under the Hand of Lieutenant General Hamilton; and likewise of General Rosen, who commanded in Chief.

The Committee were informed, by Cornet Nicholson, that he asked Mr. Whitloe, the Minister (with whom he had been formerly acquainted) upon 16. April, at Londonderry, What Colonel Lundie intended to do concerning the delivering the Town. Whitloe seemed at first very shy towards him; but, at last, told him, The Town would be delivered before Saturday following; and that he was to receive his Letters next Morning from Colonel Lundie: And he advised him, as an old Acquaintance, to shift for himself.

Cornet Nicholson says further, That he told this very Passage, the same Day, to Mr. Henry Nicholson, and one Dr. Lasby. Which Henry Nicholson was examined before the Committee, and confessed he was told of it, at that Time: And they both, believing the Town would be betrayed, left it for that Reason.

Sir Arthur Royden informed the Committee, That he often desired Colonel Lundie, that his Men might be employed to fetch in Provisions; but he could never give him Orders for it: Only one Day his Men brought in Three hundred Horse Load of Meal, without Order.

He says further, That Colonel Lundie told him, but Three Days before Cuningham and Richards came to Londonderry, That there was then in the Town Three Months Provision for Six thousand Men.

Daniel Sherrard informed the Committee, That Colonel Lundie had preferred a Captain in his own Regiment, who had sworn he would not serve King William, nor receive Pay against King James.

That Colonel Lundie admitted one Mr. Netervile to the Council, who was suspected to hold Correspondence with King James, and afterwards actually went to him.

That, at the Council of War, Whitloe, that came about the Surrender of the Town, was present, and sat near the Governor: And that Colonel Lundie there said, the Town could not hold out; but must surrender.

Colonel Lundie being several times examined, says, As to the Fight at the Pass, That the Men would not stand but run away; so he fled among the rest: But denies he bid them shift for themselves.

He says, when he came to Londonderry, he shut the Gates against the Rabble; knowing it would quickly make a great Scarcity of Provisions.

He says, Major Tiffany, when he brought Cuningham's Letter, told him, they had brought no Provisions for the Town; and proposed, That Colonel Cuningham might come up, and discourse with him, before the Men were landed: and that he did consent to it. Colonel Cuningham says, He gave Tiffany no such Orders.

He owns the Proceeding at the Council of War; and says, He did not know but that Provisions were as scarce as he had represented them. He denies the several Discourses, and Confessions, which the Witnesses have charged him with.

Colonel Cuningham, being examined, says, That, as to the Proceedings at the Council of War, it was as is mentioned; but denies the Words he should say, "He would go home again, let who would be displeased with it."

Denies his Brother ever came down to the Ships, only Captain Cole.-Says, He, having a good opinion of Colonel Lundie's Loyalty, bids them go back, and obey their Governor.

There was mention made of Colonel Coningham being named in the Dispensation to Popish Officers, for not taking the Oaths, and Test: To which he said, He knew not how his Name came to be inserted; but he produced a Certificate from the Officer, in the King's Bench Court; whereby it appeared, That he did take the Oaths, and Test, at that very time: Which satisfied the Committee as to that Matter.

Upon Richards' being examined, it appeared to the Committee, That Cuningham was his Commander in Chief; and that he had acted nothing in the whole Matter, but in Obedience to his superior Officer.

Colonel Chichester informed the Committee, That Captain Cornwall, Commander of the Swallow Frigate, which carried Colonel Cuningham to Londonderry, when he came back again for England, brought a great many Protestant Passengers aboard his Ship; and demanded Four Pounds a-head of every one; and where the Money was not to be had, plundered them of their Swords, Watches, Cloaths, or any thing they had, in a very barbarous manner.

Then the Committee took into their Consideration several Complaints made against Mr. Anderton, the Customer, at Chester; which consisted of Three Particulars; viz.

The Badness of the Provisions sent along with Cuningham's and Richards' Regiments: And

That they had not Shipping enough provided for them: And

That he failed in the Payment of divers Sums of Money, according to his Orders.

As to the Shipping-Anderton, received Orders from the Commissioners of the Navy to provide Shipping for Fifteen hundred Men.

Colonel Richards said, That he complained the Shipping was not sufficient; for that the Men wanted Convenience to lie down.

That more Shipping might have been had; but Matthew Anderton told him, His Father had provided as much Shipping as he had Orders for.

That he attributed, in great Measure, the Sickness of the Men, in the Voyage, to the want of Room in the Ships, as well as the Badness of Provisions.

That there was no Platforms for the Men to lie upon, as is usual in such Cases.

There appeared only Two Sons of Matthew Anderton, before the Committee: The Father was summoned; but a Certificate, upon Oath, was produced under Two Surgeons Hands, That he had a bruised Leg, and could not travel.

It appeared as to this first Head complained of, That Matthew Anderton had Orders for Shipping, for Fifteen hundred Men; and accordingly agreed for Seven Ships, some of which had carried formerly the like Number of Soldiers as they now agreed to take aboard: But the Officers complained they were streightened in Three Ships; upon which he did provide another of One hundred and Fifty . . ., which carried One hundred and Fifty Men: They did desire another Ship for their Horses: But, for that, there was no Order.

Colonel Richards and all the Officers, gave the Masters of the Ships Certificates, That they had carried and brought back their full Number; of which Copies only were produced before the Committee: But said, That the Originals were at Chester, and ready to be produced.

As to the Second Complaint,

That the Cask, which contained the Beer, when it was gauged, did frequently want Twelve or Fourteen Inches of being full.

That divers of the Officers and Soldiers died, and were sick; which was occasioned by the Badness of the Bread and Beer.

That some Part of the Provisions, viz. Biscuit, as they were informed, had been in the Castle ever since Monmouth's Rebellion.

To these several Matters, Anderton said, That the Provisions, which were had from the Castle, were baked but in December: Which his Father was forced to borrow; for that the Town could not provide enough in the Time limited: That the Masters of the Ships received their full Quantity, according to Order, as appeared by their Certificates, ready to be produced: And, that the Castle Biscuit was good, He produced a Certificate, signed by Five Persons, who viewed the same. As to the rest, He desired the Aldermen of each Company of Brewers and Bakers in the City of Chester, to see the full Quantity provided, and to see it should be good; and paid the best Rates, as appeared by their Receipts.

The Brewers and Bakers gave Certificates to the same Purpose.

He produced Colonel Cuningham's Order to the Master of the Ship, that carried the last Ten Days Provision, to deliver out of his Ship, to several Officers, spare Provisions, at his Return from Londonderry.

As to the Third Branch of the Complaint, about Nonpayment of several Sums of Money;

That Mr. Anderton was ordered to pay One thousand Pounds to Mr. James Hamilton.

To This he says, He paid but Five hundred Ninetyfive Pounds Sixteen Shillings and Eight-pence; which was more than he had then of the King's Money resting in his Hand.

The Second Order was, for Two thousand Pounds to Colonel Cuningham.

This Order was dated March the Fourteenth, and received the Sixteenth; and the Money paid the Nineteenth, as appeared by Colonel Cuningham's Receipt; which he produced to the Committee.

That Mr. Blaithwaite writ a Letter to Mr. Anderton, to pay Two thousand Pounds more to Colonel Cuningham, out of such Monies as he had in his Hands.

Colonel Cuningham informed the Committee, That he went over to Chester for this Money: But Mr. Anderton told him, He had none, and could not pay it: And that he afterwards sent one Mr. King thither again for it, but could not get it: And he offered to procure some to lay it down for him, and give him Credit.

That Mr. Anderton has since, upon full and positive Orders to that Purpose, paid this second Two thousand Pounds to Lieutenant Colonel St. Johns, who commanded the Two Regiments that followed Colonel Cuningham and Richards.

Mr. Anderton informed the Committee, That his Father had not Forty Pounds of the King's Money in his Hands; but raised the first and last Two thousand Pounds upon his own Credit.

Sir Thomas Littleton also acquainted the House, That he was directed by the said Committee to move the House, That an Address may be presented to his Majesty, That the said Colonel Cuningham may be bailed.

Resolved, That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, by such Members of this House as are of his Majesty's most honourable Privy Council, That Colonel Lundie be sent over to Londonderry, to be tried there for the Treasons that are laid to his Charge.

Proceedings respecting Titus Oates.

Then, there arising a Debate, touching the Pardon about to be granted to Mr. Oates;

Resolved, That the Debate be adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Ten of the Clock.

Ordered, That the Report, from the Committee appointed to prepare Reasons for a Conference with the Lords, for the settling the Method of Proceedings between the Two Houses, upon Conferences, and free Conferences, be made To-morrow Morning.

Papers to be returned.

Ordered, That the Books, which were brought to this House, touching the Excise, be delivered back to the Officer that brought the same.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be revived.

Securing Government against Papists.

A Bill for securing the Government against Papists, and other disaffected Persons, read a Second time;

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to Mr. Hawles, Major Vincent, Mr. Christy, Sir Wm. Williams, Mr. Paul Foley, Sir John Thomson, Sir Edw. Hussey, Mr. Phil. Foley, Mr. Norries, Sir Tho. Darcye, Mr. Buscowen, Mr. Blake, Sir Walter Young, Mr. Ellwell, Mr. Whitehead, Mr. Papillion, Mr. Palmes, Mr. Jo. Williams, Mr. Attorney General, Sir Edw. Harley, Mr. Solicitor General Sir Hen. Goodrick, Mr. Hamden, Mr. Reynold, Sir John Trevor, Major Wildman, Sir Wm. Ashurst, Colonel Mildmay, Sir Patience Ward, Mr. Arnold, Sir Rob. Clayton: And all that come are to have Voices: And they are to meet this Afternoon, at Four a Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine a Clock.