House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 4 February 1689

Lunæ, 4 die Februarii, 1688.

Prayers.

Cardigan Election.

A PETITION of John Vaughan, Esquire, complaining of an undue Election and Return of a Knight of the Shire to serve in this present Convention for the County of Cardigan, in Prejudice of the Petitioner, was read.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Consideration of the Committee of Elections and Privileges; to examine the Matter thereof, and report the same, with their Opinion therein, to the House.

Answer to Thanks to the Army.

Mr. Wharton acquaints the House, that he, with the Lord Falkland, Mr. Sidney, and Sir John Lowther, had attended Marshal Schomberg, and other Officers of the Army, with the Vote of Thanks of this House: And that he was pleased to declare, that he looked upon it as a great Honour done to the Army, that this House should take so much Notice of the Services they had done; and that he would take care the Thanks of this House should be communicated to the whole Army; and that he hoped it would have a very good Effect.

Nottingham Vacancy.

Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do make Application, by his Letter, to his Highness the Prince of Orange, to issue out his Letter, for the Electing of a Member to serve in this present Convention as a Knight of the Shire, for the County of Nottingham, in the room of the Lord Houghton, who is called to the House of Lords.

Southampton Vacancy.

The Lord Wm. Pawlett acquainting the House, that he was chosen to serve in this present Convention, as well for the County of Southampton, as for the City of Winton; and making his Election to serve for the said City;

Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do make Application, by his Letter to his Highness the Prince of Orange, to issue out his Highness's Letter, for electing a Knight of the Shire to serve in this present Convention, for the said County of Southampton, in the room of the said Lord Wm. Pawlett.

Reasons for disagreeing to Lords Amendments

Mr. Hamden reports from the Committee appointed to prepare Heads of Reasons for a Conference with the Lords, upon the Subject Matter of the Amendments proposed by the Lords to the Vote of this House of the 28th of January last, sent up to the Lords for their Concurrence, That they had prepared several Heads of Reasons, accordingly, why this House did not concur with the Lords in the said Amendments: The which Reasons he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same being again severally read, were, upon the Question, severally put, agreed to by the House; and are as followeth; viz.

The First Amendment, proposed by the Lords to be made to the Vote of the Commons of the 28th of January, instead of the Word " abdicated," to insert the Word "deserted," the Commons do not agree;

Because the Word " deserted" does not fully express the Conclusion necessarily inferred from the Premises which your Lordships have agreed: For your Lordships have agreed that King James the Second has endeavoured to subvert the Constitution of the Kingdom, by breaking the Original Contract between King and People; and has violated the fundamental Laws; and withdrawn himself out of the Kingdom. Now the Word "deserted" respects only the withdrawing; but the Word "abdicated" respects the Whole; for which Purpose the Commons made choice of it.

The Commons do not agree to the Second Amendment, to leave out these Words, "and that the Throne is thereby become vacant."

1. Because they conceive, that, as they may well infer from so much of their own Vote as your Lordships have agreed, that King James the Second has abdicated the Government; and that the Throne is thereby vacant: So, if they should admit your Lordships Amendment, "That he has only deserted the Government;" yet even thence, it would follow, that the Throne is vacant, as to King James the Second; deserting the Government being, in true Construction, deserting the Throne.

2. The Commons conceive they need not prove to your Lordships, That, as to any other Person, the Throne is also vacant: Your Lordships, as they conceive, have already admitted it, by your addressing to the Prince of Orange, the 25th of December last, to take upon him the Administration of publick Affairs, both Civil and Military, and to take into his Care the Kingdom of Ireland, till the Meeting of this Convention; and to write his Letters, for this Meeting, and for directing the Choice of Commons thereto; by your Lordships meeting in this Convention, in pursuance of such Letters; by your renewing the same Address to him (as to the publick Affairs, and the Kingdom of Ireland) since you met; and by appointing Days of publick Thanksgiving to be observed throughout the whole Kingdom: All which Acts the Commons conceive to imply, That it was your Lordships Opinion, that the Throne was vacant, and to signify as much to the People of this Kingdom.

3. It is from those who are upon the Throne of England, (when there are any such) from whom the People of England ought to receive Protection; and to whom, for that Cause, they owe Allegiance: But, there being none now, from whom they can expect Regal Protection, and to whom therefore they owe the Allegiance of Subjects, the Commons conceive the Throne is vacant.

Conference with Lords.

Resolved, That the Earl of Wiltshire do go up to the Lords, to desire a Conference, upon the Subject Matter of the said Amendments.

The Earl of Wiltshire reports, That, he having attended the Lords to desire a Conference, they had given Answer, That they did consent to a Conference accordingly, immediately, in the Painted Chamber.

Resolved, That the Committee to whom it was referred to prepare Heads of Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the Lords, be the Managers of the said Conference.

Mr. Hamden reports from the Committee appointed to manage the Conference with the Lords, That they had attended the Lords at the Conference; and communicated to their Lordships the Reasons why this House doth not concur with their Lordships in the said Amendments.

Bailing and Escape of Brent.

The House being informed, that Sir James Smith had bailed Mr. Brent, who is since fled;

Ordered, That Sir James Smith, One of the Aldermen of the City of London, be sent for to attend this House immediately, to answer to what shall be objected against him concerning the Bailing of Mr. Brent.

Declaration of Rights.

Ordered, That it be referred to the same Committee to whom it was referred to bring in General Heads of such Things as are absolutely necessary to be considered, for the better Securing of our Religion, Laws, and Liberties, to distinguish such of the General Heads, as are introductory of new Laws, from those that are declaratory of ancient Rights. And they are to meet at Three of the Clock this Afternoon, in the Speaker's Chamber; and draw the said Heads into Form, and consider of a Title to be put to the same.

Ordered, That Sir John Holt be added to the said Committee.

Higham Ferrars Vacancy.

Sir Rice Rudd acquainting the House, That he is chosen to serve in this present Convention, as well for the County of Carmarthen, as for the Borough of Higham Ferrars in the County of Northampton; and making his Election to serve for the County of Carmarthen;

Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do make his Application, by his Letter, to his Highness the Prince of Orange, to issue out his Highness's Letter, for electing a Burgess to serve in this present Convention, for the said Borough of Higham Ferrars, in the room of the said Rice Rudd.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow, Nine a Clock.