House of Commons Journal Volume 8: 7 September 1660

Friday, September 7th, 1660.

Prayers.

Countess of Derby's Nat.

A BILL, ingrossed, sent down from the Lords, for the Naturalizing of Dorothea Helena, Countess of Derby, Emilia Countess of Ossery, Margaret Lady Culpepper, and the Right honourable Charles Kirkhoven Lord Wotton, and Dame Emilia his Sister; was this Day read the First time; and, upon the Question, ordered to be read the Second time, the First Business, in the Afternoon.

Letter from D. of Yorke.

Mr. Speaker communicates to the House a Letter of Thanks from his Highness the Duke of Yorke: Which Letter was read; and was dated at Whitehall, September the 6th, 1660.

Clerk to attend with Journals.

Ordered, That the Clerk of this House do, from time to time, attend Mr. Attorney General, and other his Majesty's Counsel learned, with such Journals, and other Records remaining in his Hands, as they shall call for; to be made use of by them, as they shall see Cause.

Crown Lands.

Ordered, That the Surveyor General, Register, and other Officers for Sale of the Lands of the late King, Queen, and Prince, and all other Persons whom it doth concern, do forthwith deliver the Surveys, and all Deeds, Writings, Rolls, and Evidences, belonging to or concerning the King's, Queen's, and Prince's Lands, the Duchy Lands, and Fee-farm Rents, to the Remembrancer of the Exchequer, and to the Clerk of the Duchy of Lancaster, to whom they respectively belong.

Restoring Marq. of Newcastle.

The Lord Aungier carried up the Bill for restoring to the Marquis of Newcastle his Honours, Manors, and Lands, whereof he hath been dispossessed.

Deane Forest.

That his Majesty be desired to give Order, that the Timber upon the Forest or Deane and New Forest, belonging to the King's Majesty, and Sherwood Forest, and all other his Demesnes, be preserved, with the uttermost Care, for the Service of the Navy.

Resolved, That his Majesty be humbly moved, not to exercise his Prerogative in making use of his Tenures; or to settle any Offices or Officers relating thereunto, till other Order taken.

Ordered, That it be referred to Serjeant Glyn, Serjeant Hales, Lord Herbert, Sir Henage Finch, to pen Orders for preserving of Timber, and concerning Tenures, to the Purport of the Debate now had in the House.

Crown Lands.

Resolved, That his Majesty be humbly moved, from this House, that he will please not to make any Lease, or other Disposal, of any the Lands, or other Revenue of the Crown, for a longer Term than Three Lives, or Thirty-one Years; nor under a lower Rent than the full Moiety of the now improved yearly Value.

Supply.

Resolved, That One Month's Assessment, at Seventy thousand Pounds, be laid, for his Majesty's present Supply, to begin at Michaelmas next; and to be levied in the Way the last Three Months Assessments, beginning the Twenty-fourth of June 1660, were appointed to be levied.

Ordered, That Mr. Solicitor General do bring in a Bill to that Purpose, in the Afternoon.

Rents of excepted Persons.

Resolved, That no Monies due to any the Persons excepted from Pardon in the Act of General Pardon, Indemnity, and Oblivion, nor any Interest for the same, which have grown due by Rents, or at the Excise, or upon Weaver's Hall Bills, or otherwise, be paid to any of the said Persons; but that a Stay be made thereof in the Hands of the respective Persons who ought to pay the same, till further Order.

Ordered, That this Resolve be forthwith printed and published.

Bills from Lords.

A Message from the Lords, by Dr. Bennet and Mr. Glascock;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have commanded us to bring you a Bill for Restoring, unto Morough, alias Morgan, Earl of Insequin, all his Honours, Manors, Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments, in Ireland; to which they desire your Concurrence: And, to let you know, that they have agreed to the Amendments sent up to the Bill concerning the Marquis of Newcastle.

Restoring Earl of Inchequin.

A Bill, sent from the Lords, for restoring unto Murrough, alias Morgan, Earl of Inchequin, all his Honours, Manors, Lands, &c. in Ireland, whereof he was possessed 23d October 1641, or any time since, was this Day read the First and Second time; and committed unto Lord Aungier, Mr. Bamfeild, Mr. Pryn, Mr. Annesley, Lord Bulkley, Sir Wm. Waller, Colonel West, Lord Bruce, Mr. Hollis, Lord Broghill, Sir Anthony Irby, Sir Robert Brookes, Mr. Joliffe, Sir Anthony Ashley Cooper, Mr. Powell, Mr. Harris, Sir John Temple, Sir Tho. Wharton, Sir Tho. Meeres, Sir Francis Gerrard, Colonel King, or any Three of them: And they are to meet in the Court of Wards, at One of the Clock in the Afternoon.

Draining the Fens.

Mr. Trevor reports from the Committee to whom the Bill for Maintenance and Preservation of the great Level in the Fens, extending itself into the Counties of Northampton, &c. was referred, a new Bill, for Maintenance and Preservation of the said great Level of the Fens: Which was this Day read the First and Second time.

A Proviso was tendered to this Bill; giving Powers to Commissioners of the Sewers, to proportion the Charge between the Adventurers, and those that were anciently to maintain the Banks, if the Banks were raised higher than formerly: Which was read.

And the Question being put, That this Bill be committed;

It passed in the Negative.

Resolved, That this Bill be ingrossed.

Lords desire a Conference.

A Message from the Lords, by Mr. Glascock and * *, Two Masters of the Chancery;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire a Conference with this House presently, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Bill for disbanding the Army.

Resolved, That this House doth agree to a present Conference, as is desired.

Ordered, That Mr. Holles, Mr. Annesley, Mr. Secretary Morris, Lord Broghill, Sir John Northcot, Sir Richard Onslow, Sir Anthony Ashley Cooper, Lord Howard, Serjeant Glyn, Mr. Swinfin, Colonel Birch, be the Committee to manage this Conference.

The Messengers being called in again, Mr. Speaker gave them this Answer;

The House hath considered of your Message; and do agree to a present Conference.

Committee of Privileges.

Ordered, That the Committee for Privileges and Elections have the Leave of this House to sit this Afternoon, between the Rising and Sitting of this House.

The House adjourns itself till Two of the Clock in the Afternoon.

Post Meridiem.

Countess of Derby's, &c. Nat.

A BILL, ingrossed, sent down from the Lords, for the Naturalizing of Dorothea Helena Countess of Derby, Emilia Countess of Ossery, and the Right honourable Charles Kirkhoven Lord Wotton, and Dame Emilia his Sister, was this Day read the Second time.

Ordered, That this Bill be read the Third time Tomorrow Morning.

Restoring Lord Culpepper.

A Bill, ingrossed, sent down from the Lords, for the Restoring unto John Lord Culpepper, all his Honours, Manors, and Lands, whereof he was in Possession on the Twentieth Day of May 1642, was this Day read the First time.

Ordered, That this Bill be read the Second time Tomorrow Morning, next after the Bill for Naturalization.

Addresses- Timber and Court of Wards.

Mr. Serjeant Glyn reports Addresses to be made to the King's Majesty, upon the Debate this Day: Which were twice read; and, being severally put to the Question, were agreed unto; and are as followeth:

Resolved, That in respect of the great Decay of Timber, his Majesty be humbly moved, that, for the Building and Repairing of Shipping, and Advancement of Navigation, and other publick Occasions of this Kingdom, his Majesty would be pleased to give Order, that all Timber, and Trees, growing or being upon any his Majesty's Wastes, or Demesne Lands, lying within the Precincts of the Forest of Deane, as well the Eighteen thousand Acres, granted, or pretended to be granted, to Sir John Wintour, or any other his Demesne Lands there, or in or upon any other of his Majesty's Wastes, or Demesne Lands, in any other Forest, be carefully preserved for the Ends aforesaid: And that, in order thereunto, his Majesty would be pleased not to grant the said Wastes, and Demesne Lands, nor the Timber growing thereupon, or upon any other his Majesty's Lands or Demesnes, to any Person.

Resolved, That whereas a Bill for the taking away of the Court of Wards, and Tenures by Knight Service, is under the Consideration of this House; which, in respect of the present Recess, cannot be at this time dispatched: his Majesty be humbly moved, that he would be pleased to suspend the Sitting of that Court; and all Profits of Wardships, Marriages of Wards, Licences of Alienation, and the placing of Officers, finding of Offices, and acting of any thing concerning the same, or relating thereunto, until the Twenty-fifth Day of December next.

Ordered, That the Members of this House, of the King's Majesty's Council, do wait on his Majesty from this House with these several Votes; and humbly desire his Majesty's Assent thereunto.

Excise.

Colonel Birch reports from the Commissioners for Appeals, and regulating the Excise, that, such are the Obstructions of collecting and levying the Duty of Excise both in London, and the several Counties of England and Wales, that it is very necessary that his Majesty be humbly desired, by both Houses of Parliament, forthwith to issue out his Proclamation, requiring all his Subjects in England and Wales, that are liable to pay Excise, to conform unto the Rules, Regulations, and Powers, whereby that Imposition hath been levied, in paying the same; for Satisfaction of the great Debt charged thereupon: And that the Justices of the Peace, of the respective Counties, for Removal of the said Obstructions, do vigorously proceed in putting such of the Rules and Powers as are under their Cognizance, in Execution.

Resolved, That in respect of the Obstructions in collecting and levying the Duty of Excise, and the Arrears thereof, both in London, and the several Counties of England and Wales, his Majesty is hereby humbly desired forthwith to issue out his Proclamation, requiring all his Subjects, in England and Wales, that are liable to pay Excise, to conform unto the Rules, Regulations, and Powers, whereby that Imposition hath been levied, in paying the same; with all the Arrears not pardoned by the Act of General Pardon, Indemnity, and Oblivion; for Satisfaction of the great Payments charged thereupon: And that the Justices of Peace of the respective Counties, for Removal of the said Obstructions, do vigorously proceed in putting such of the Rules and Powers as are under their Cognizance, in Execution.

That the Lords Concurrence be desired herein: And that Colonel Birch carry it to the Lords, and desire their Lordships to take Order for presenting the same to his Majesty.

Supply by Assessment.

Sir Henage Finch reports a Bill for an Assessment of Seventy thousand Pounds for One Month, beginning from the 29th of September 1660: Which was this Day read the First and Second time.

Resolved, That the Proviso in the last Folio of the said Bill be omitted.

Resolved, That in the 2d Folio, Line 2d, after the Word "Commissioners" insert these Words, viz. "other than such as are disabled by the Act of General Pardon and Oblivion."

Resolved, That in the 1st Folio, Line 13, next after the Word "Tenures," these Words, viz. "and the Use of the Court of Wards, "be inserted.

Resolved, That this Bill be committed to a Grand Committee of the whole House.

Resolved, That Mr. Speaker do leave the Chair.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Serjeant Glyn took the Chair.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Mr. Serjeant Glyn reports from the said Grand Committee, Amendments to the said Bill for an Assessment of Seventy thousand Pounds for a Month: Which were twice read; and, upon the Question, agreed unto.

Resolved, That this Bill be ingrossed.

Conference on disbanding the Army.

Mr. Holles reports the Conference had with the Lords this Day.

"That the Lord Chancellor was pleased to tell us, that the Lords had desired that Conference about the Bill sent up for disbanding the Army. He took notice of what was said of that Bill; that it was an acceptable Bill: And he said, the House of Peers could not but so look upon it: Therefore it had been twice read before them; and stood committed; and no Alterations or Amendments yet in it: But they had made some Observations upon it, which they thought fit to communicate to you; and to desire Satisfaction from you therein.

"The Observations were Four:

1. "That this Bill respects only the Issuing of Monies for disbanding of the Army; whereas the Poll Bill was designed to Two Uses; disbanding of the Army, and disburthening the Kingdom of the great Debt of the Navy. He told us, the Charge of the Navy is great;- Forty thousand Pounds a Month;-and (he desired us to observe it) it was not a Navy of the King's setting forth: Had it been so, the King would have taken care to provide for it: But his Majesty found the Charge;-made it not. He told us, Twenty-five Ships lay in Harbour, at a useless Charge amounting to Fifteen thousand Pounds a Month: And that the Inconveniences was not only the Uselessness of the Charge, but another Inconvenience followed; the Seamen lie idle, and by that means become unserviceable: And he told us, Sixscore thousand Pounds would cut off that Charge."

2. "He observed, you have provided but a Fortnight's Pay for Support of the Army till they be disbanded: And his Lordship offered to us, that if they should not be all disbanded within the time intended, but that a Necessity should fall out, of keeping them up longer than that Fortnight; their Lordships saw not what Provision was made for that Part that should remain undisbanded after the Fortnight: And This they desire you to take into Consideration: And he minded us what the King besought us, (that was his Expression) that the Soldiers might not lie upon Free Quarter; and, if they be not paid, there will be a Necessity of that."

3. "He observed, that Two Hospitals are full of maimed Soldiers; and that some Care will be necessary to be taken for Discharge of them."

"The 4th Observation was concerning Ireland; that Part of the Army there is to be disbanded; besides the constant Charge that is to be kept up there for the Defence of the Country: And they desire you to take that into Consideration: And, in the mean time, they will go on with the Bill."

"He added, You might be mistaken as to the Proceed of the Poll Bill. The former Poll Bill fell short of what was expected, and, haply, it may be so in this."