Appendix: poor laws, 11 March 1831

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Die Veneris, 11° Martii 1831.

The Marquess of Salisbury in the Chair.

The Reverend John Thomas Becher is called in, and examined as follows:

Where do you reside?

At Southwell, in Nottinghamshire. I am a Magistrate for the County of Nottingham and for the Liberty of Southwell and Scrooby, for which Parts I have acted during the last Seven and twenty Years, and for the last Twenty-four Years have been Chairman of the Quarter Sessions for both those Divisions.

Have you, during that Period, turned your Attention to the Administration of the Poor Laws?

I have during that Period, and antecedent to that Period, since the Year 1793, when I first became a Parochial Clergyman.

At what Period do you imagine the Practice of paying the Wages of Labour out of the Poor's Rates originated?

The first Conversation that I recollect having received on that Subject was in conjunction with the late Sir Richard Sutton, who had been Under Secretary of State, and resided at Norwood Park, in the Parish of Southwell. He received about the Year 1795, from Berkshire, a Statement apportioning the Relief granted to Labourers according to the Price of the Peck Loaf; which Table had been framed, as I believe, by the Magistrates of Berkshire at a General Meeting held at Speenhamland in that County, and was the Revisal of another Table which had then and there been proposed for this Purpose. Both those Tables have subsequently been given by Sir Frederick Eden in the First Volume of his Treatise concerning the Poor, and he there anticipates the evil Consequences likely to result from them.

Have you a Copy of those Allowances?

I have not a Copy of those Allowances, but they are to be found in the First Volume of Eden on the Poor Laws, Page 576; and the next Communication that I heard of upon the Subject was from the County of Norfolk, upon which the Observation of Mr. Burke, in his Thoughts upon Scarcity, was, "that the Squires of Norfolk had dined when they attempted to regulate the Prices of Human Labour."

Was that Table adopted in your Neighbourhood?

It was the decided Opinion of Sir Richard Sutton that it would pauperize the Country if it were adopted, and in consequence it was unanimously rejected.

Can you state what was the Poor Rate at Southwell at that Time?

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Had I known that the Question would be proposed I could easily have stated that Fact; our Accounts are very accurate; but according to the Parliamentary Returns the Expenditure for the Poor at Southwell, was for the Year ended at Easter 1813, 1,378l.; for 1814, 1,450l.; and for 1815, 1,360l. I hold in my Hand a Statement of the Expenditure for the Poor of the Parish of Southwell from the Year commencing at Lady Day 1821 to Lady Day 1830, and it will be found from this Statement that the Expenditure exclusively on account of the Poor, omitting fractional Parts of a Pound, was 2,006l. in 1821, 1,425l. in 1822, 589l. in 1823, and 517l. in 1824; consequently these Sums exhibit a Reduction in Four Years from 2,006l. to 517l. and amount to a Diminution in the Charge of Seventy-five per Cent. The Expenditure has since remained nearly at the same Standard. The Statement in my Hand will furnish, I believe, all the Particulars which are requisite for the Information of your Lordships. Upon this Statement I beg leave to observe that when Pauperism had been advancing, up to 1821 the Sum paid to Paupers for Employment on account of the Parish was 292l. and for Rents 60l.; which Out-payments were, in 1824, reduced to nothing for Employment, and nothing for Rent, so that these Two Items of Charge have been by the Antipauper System completely extinguished.

The Witness delivers in the Paper, which is read, and is as follows:

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What are the principal Features of the Anti-pauper System to which you have alluded?

They are minutely detailed in a little Pamphlet I published, entitled, "The Anti-pauper System," which was out of print in a short Time after its Publication. But my Principles are briefly these:— to treat the Poor as you would your own Children; to consider that their Rights are few, and therefore studiously to respect them; to pay the Labourer his Hire, and to regard any Endeavour to pay Wages out of the Rates as a Combination against the Labourers for the Purpose of imposing upon the Wages of one Man the Sustentation of another Fellow Labourer; to infuse into them the Principles of Self-support and Forethought; and to provide them with Savings Banks, Friendly Societies, and every other Opportunity that the Law will authorize as Instruments for supporting themselves in honest Independence. The System is laid down in the Work to which I have referred, from which I will beg leave to read an Extract. "In the Anti-pauper System all our Arrangements should be strictly conformable to the Laws of the Realm. We do not profess to amend the Provisions of the Legislature, but to enforce them. The Rights of the Poor are few, therefore they should be scrupulously respected; for the Retrenchment of their imaginary Claims will naturally inspire them with a Disposition to resist any such Innovation. But when they become convinced that their Privileges are preserved without Violation, and that our Measures are founded upon legal and equitable Principles, any Opposition created by the Impulse of the Moment will gradually subside into patient and good-tempered Acquiescence.

"The fundamental and operative Law upon this important Subject is the Statute passed in the Forty-third Year of Queen Elizabeth, by which all the preceding Enactments for the Maintenance of the impotent Poor were modified, matured and consolidated. This should constitute the Basis of our Superstructure; and to obtain an authentic Exposition of its Principles we must constantly consult the elaborate Report of the Select Committee of the House of Commons on the Poor Laws in 1817, for which we are principally indebted to The Right Honourable William Sturges Bourne, the Chairman of that Committee.

"However, before we can enforce Discipline so as to controul the vicious and refractory, we must provide a Place of Refuge as well as of Restraint. For this Purpose, commence your Measure for the Reformation of the Poor by the Establishment of a Parochial Workhouse, affording the Means of distributing Males, Females and Children, both by Day and by Night, into separate Classes, and of subdividing these Classes into distinct Wards, according to the Conduct and Character of the Paupers.

"If the Population of the Parish will not suffice for this Purpose, unite with the surrounding Parishes, and provide an incorporated Workhouse under the Statute 22 Geo. 3, C. 83. Let the System of Management insure every Tenderness towards the infirm, the aged and the guiltless, while it imposes wholesome Restraint upon the idle, the profligate and the refractory.

"The System adopted at Southwell, and at the Thurgaton Hundred Incorporated Workhouse in the immediate Vicinity of Southwell, presents the best practical Exemplification within my Knowledge. It is conducted without personal Inconvenience to any of those who are connected with the Management.

"The Provisions for the Workhouse should be purchased under the immediate Superintendence of the Parish Officers, or the Governor, or the Secretary. The Dietary of the Paupers should be plain, but wholesome and sufficient. Any Privations injurious to Health should be peremptorily prohibited.

"Do not contract with any Person for the lodging, keeping or maintaining of your Paupers; such Engagements frequently consign the Poor to the Dominion of a merciless and rapacious Master, who sacrifices Duty and Discipline to Self-interest, while he endeavours to acquire an unjust Profit by sustaining them with Food defective in Quality or deficient in Quantity. Besides which, it cannot be imagined that the Moral Improvement of the Individuals placed under the Care of such Contractors will occupy any considerable Portion of their Time or Attention.

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"Let the Churchwardens, the Overseers of the Poor, and the Guardians, if such Officers have been appointed, assemble Monthly, or Weekly if necessary, and execute all the Functions of a Select Vestry. Let them investigate carefully the legal Settlement, the Character, the Conduct and the Means of Subsistence attainable by every Pauper claiming Parochial Relief; and let the Particulars relating to each Individual be entered in the Columns in the Register which I have framed for this Purpose, and arranged in the following Order:

1st. Resident Poor.

2d. Resident occasional Poor.

3d. Non-resident permanent Poor.

4th. Non-resident occasional Poor.

5th. Bastards.

"Register the first Four Classes under these Heads:

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"Let it however be remembered, that the Advantages resulting from a Workhouse must arise, not from keeping the Poor in the House, but from keeping them out of it, by constraining the inferior Classes to know and feel how demoralizing and degrading is the compulsory Relief drawn from the Parish to silence the Clamour and to satisfy the Cravings of wilful and woeful Indigence; but how sweet and wholesome is that Food, and how honourable is that Independence, which is earned by persevering and honest Industry.

"Relief independent of Employment;" — when I speak of Employment, I do not refer to Employment paid for partly by the Parish, but Employment affording the Means of Livelihood to the Individual. "Relief, independent of Employment, should, if possible, be withheld from able Paupers not in the Workhouse; but if granted, it should be given in Money, not in Apparel or Provisions. It may be surmised that they will not expend Money with Discretion or Frugality; let them be cautioned respecting its Application; after which, if they wilfully waste it, let such Relief be withheld, and consign them to the Workhouse; but if they continue improvident, and prove idle or disorderly, procure their Commitment to the House of Correction; teach them to economise their Resources; and apprise them, that if they misapply such Relief, they must abide the Consequences of their criminal Improvidence.

"If Persons, exercising Trades which afford periodical but not constant Occupation, should apply for Relief, propose to lend them Money upon their Note, according to the Act 59 Geo. 3, C. 12, s. 29, and re-demand the Loan when they return to full Employment.

"The Labourer is worthy of his Hire: never pauperize him by reducing his Wages below their just Amount, or by making up the Deficiency out of the Poor Rate: this extinguishes the Incitement to Industry and Economy. The superficial Observer may deem it a Saving; but such a System debases the Feelings, the Principles and the Habits of the Working Classes. It is an illegal and ruinous Misapplication of the Parochial Funds, which never ought to be practised by the Rate Payers, nor tolerated, much less recommended, by the Magistracy.

"Relieve non-resident Paupers with vigilant and scrupulous Circumspection, as such Out payments are liable to constant Abuses, and are not authorized by Law.

"If a Person asking for Relief is entitled to a Pension as a Soldier or as a Seaman, let the Payment arising from this Source be applied towards the Maintenance of his Family; and if he refuses or neglects so to do, obtain, under the Authority of the Justices, an Assignment of the Pension to the Parish Officers for the Time during which the Pauper may continue chargeable.

"If the Father, Grandfather, Mother, Grandmother, or the Children of any Pauper are of sufficient Ability to relieve him and maintain the Pauper, either partly or wholly, require them respectively to contribute for this Purpose according to their Means, and, in case of their Refusal, obtain an Order of Maintenance from the Justices in Petty Sessions. It was never intended that the Poor Laws should supersede the natural Obligations of Consanguinity. When a Widow, a Female deserted by her Husband, or the Mother of an illegitimate Child, becomes incapable of supporting her Offspring, propose to maintain the Child or Children in the Workhouse, or under the Care of some respectable Nurse, provided the Mother will enter into Service, and allow the Parish such Proportion of her Wages as may be deemed equitable.

"In case the Land occupied by the Parish should not afford adequate Employment for those who are without Work, apply to the Surveyors of the Highways; if they cannot provide Work, take more Land into your Occupation, and exercise every legitimate Means within your Power for increasing the Stock of profitable Human Employment. However, the Working Classes should be taught, that an occasional Suspension of Employ by the State of the Weather or by the Season of the Year does not furnish a wellgrounded Claim for Parish Relief, for the Poor must learn to subsist not upon their daily Wages, but upon their Annual Average Earnings. Neither the Fluctuations of Trade nor Human Casualties will allow any Workman to labour regularly Six Days in the Week.

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"It appears highly advisable that every Parish should provide a staple Employment for such able-bodied Persons as may, by their Condition, establish a Title to Relief either in Money or in Work. The Employment supplied by the Parish should be of the most laborious and servile Description, requiring but little Ingenuity. It ought to be let invariably by the Piece, on such Terms as will produce not more than One Half or Three Fourths of the Sum yielded in the District by voluntary Labour, and under such Conditions as may prevent the Poor from habitually resorting to these Contracts for the ordinary Means of Subsistence.

"For this Purpose the following Works have been found effectual: digging; dibbling Seed; weeding; quarrying Stone; breaking, raising and riddling Gravel; and the Removal by Wheelbarrows of gross Articles and Substances, which would otherwise be conveyed in Carts. The Price charged for Carriage in Wheelbarrows should be the same as that required for Cartage. The main Object is not to acquire Profit, but to prevent Idleness, and to constrain the Poor to subsist upon their personal Industry and Exertion.

"The Quantity of Piece Work allowed to each Person should be proportioned according to the Amount of the Individual's Claim for Parochial Relief.

"Allot a Part of the Parish Land into small Gardens, to be occupied, at a moderate Rent, by such industrious poor Persons as may be found willing to cultivate them, which they will find Opportunities of doing, without interrupting their customary Occupations. The Rent should be paid in advance.

"If a poor Person applies for Relief on account of his numerous Family, let it be recollected that a Labourer's ordinary Wages should support himself, his Wife, and Four Children under Ten Years of Age; but some of the Children under this Age, if exceeding Four in Number, may be sent during the Day into the Workhouse, there to be fed and schooled as at Southwell. If the Poorhouse be situated at a Distance, a Working School may be established upon the same Principle within the Parish, at which such Children may be schooled and victualled.

"Parish Houses or Cottages should be occupied by Widows, or by aged and infirm Poor. When Persons of this Description have been so accommodated, married Persons having numerous Families may be placed in such Houses as remain untenanted. A Man and his Wife, if capable of Labour, should pay a Rent to the Parish proportioned according to the Number of their Family. If the Children exceed Three, no Rent should be paid; if Three in Number, the Rent may be 1½d. weekly; if Two, 3d.; if One, 4½d.; if none, 6d.

"No Rents should be paid by the Parish on account of Paupers.

"All Tenements, however small, except the Parish Houses, should be assessed to the Poor Rates. This conveys to the inferior Classes some Knowledge of the Burdens imposed upon the Parish for the Maintenance of the Poor. By discharging small Tenements from the Payment of Rates, the Owners are relieved rather than the Occupiers, as the Rent of such Tenements is proportionably advanced.

"Let every Assessment be either a Tenpenny Rate, or a Measure or a Multiple of 10d., such as 2½d., 5d., 10d., or 20d." My Reason for adopting this Monetary Division is, because you cannot assess correctly a Sixpenny or a Twelvepenny Rate; whereas, if you assess a Tenpenny Rate, it is evident that it amounts to a Halfpenny for every Shilling contained in the Annual Value assessed; if it is a Fivepenny Rate, it is a Farthing in the Shilling: moreover, by simply annexing a Cypher to any Number of Pounds found in the Annualty, we produce the Pence in a Tenpenny Rate; for instance, to assess a Tenpenny Rate upon 100l. add a Cypher, and it gives 1,000d. or 6l. 3s. 4d. the Rate required.

"Let the Alehouses be well regulated, for which Application must be made to the Justices of the Peace. Every Public House should be closed at the Hour of Eleven at Night during the Months of July, August and September, and at the Hour of Ten during the remaining Part of the Year: on Sundays they should be shut an Hour earlier than the Times above respectively specified.

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"Orders of Bastardy should be punctually enforced. The Demand for Payment should never be postponed beyond a Month or Six Weeks. If the putative Father neglects to make his Payments, and they are not recoverable, propose to the Mother an Allowance of 9d. Weekly for the Maintenance of the Child; or if she declines this Offer, require her to pay 9d. Weekly, being the Amount of the Order made in our Parts upon the Female in case she does not nurse the Child, and send the Child to be nursed at the Workhouse. If a Woman becomes the Mother of a Second Bastard Child, and suffers it to become chargeable to the Parish, apply to the Justices for her Commitment to the House of Correction. These Proceedings may be adopted occasionally even on the Birth of the first Child, if the Mother leads a Life of notorious Profligacy.

"All Payments to the Working Classes by the Parish or by their Employers should be made on the Day next immediately preceding the Market Day, that the Poor may be enabled to purchase their Necessaries in the Public Market for ready Money.

"Lunatics and dangerous Idiots should be carried before the Magistrates to be disposed of as the Law directs. In case of Insanity, the Benefits to be derived from Medical Assistance depend in a great Measure upon its immediate Application, before the Malady has been confirmed by habitual Continuance.

"A List of the Paupers actually chargeable, specifying the several Allowances granted, as well as the Names of the putative Fathers of Bastards in arrear to the Parish, should be made quarterly, and hung up in the Vestry and in the Overseer's Office for Public Inspection.

"The System of Accounts should be arranged with such Perspicuity as to exhibit not only the general Expenditure, but the Amount under each of the several Heads of Classification before recommended.

"The Parish Accounts should be examined and authenticated monthly by the Overseers of the Poor, the Churchwardens and the Guardians, or by the Select Vestry, and finally closed at the Conclusion of every Year on the 25th Day of March; after which they should be submitted for the Approval of a General Vestry.

"An Abstract of these Annual Accounts should be suspended in some public Place for general Inspection; and in populous Parishes this Abstract, as well as the before-mentioned List of chargeable Paupers, may be printed and circulated. Publicity proves an admirable Check to controul Extravagance in the Parochial Expenditure.

"The Proceedings of the Meetings held by the Officers and the Vestries should be faithfully recorded in Writing, and periodically submitted to the Parishioners on suitable Occasions. Select Vestries have never been appointed or required in our District. In some Places they have been found useful; but when the general Cooperation of the Parishioners can be obtained, the Superintendence of an open Vestry is far more influential and satisfactory than the delegated Authority of any select Body, and certainly much better adapted to prevent the Abuses of Maladministration.

"The Expenditure incurred at Parish Meetings should be defrayed by the Persons assembled. The Payments for feasting, or even for moderate Refreshment, should never be admitted in the Parish Accounts.

"The Appointment of an Assistant Overseer, with a suitable Salary, is indispensably requisite for conducting the Parochial Concerns with Steadiness and Uniformity, for recording the Proceedings of the Meetings, and for keeping the Accounts with Regularity.

"A Surgeon should be retained and allowed an Annual Stipend for affording Medical Attendance, Advice and Medicines to such poor Persons as may be placed upon his List by the Parish Officers.

"The Parochial Charities should be carefully investigated, accurately registered and faithfully applied.

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"Lastly, let no Endeavours be wanting to conciliate the Countenance, the Confidence and the Counsel of the Magistrates, without which the Exertions of the Parish Officers must prove irksome and inefficient.

"In return for this Deference to the Magistrates, it is earnestly hoped that they will abstain from interfering with the Wages of Labour, or from prescribing any Scale of Allowances payable out of the Parish Funds to able-bodied Labourers. This injurious System has counteracted the Principle by which Demand and Supply are balanced in the Market of free Labour, and has, throughout extensive Districts, scandalously pauperized the whole of the Working Classes. The Justices of the Peace in these Parts, foreseeing and dreading the ruinous Tendency of such official meddling, have rigorously refused to lend their Authority towards aiding or encouraging these dangerous Innovations, and have strictly prohibited the pernicious Practice of employing the Poor as Roundsmen or House Row Labourers.

"The universal Application of the Anti-pauper System must depend upon the personal Exertions of Parochial Officers, and the Parishioners individually as well as collectively.

"Enough has been adduced to substantiate my Affirmation, that the present Management of the Poor is frequently defective in Principle and in Policy. It subverts the Moral Feeling and the manly Spirit of the laborious Classes, while it exhausts the Resources of the rated Inhabitants, and generates an Evil that threatens to endanger the Safety of the State by its Turpitude and Enormity. We shall find it difficult to discover any Reason why the System adopted at Southwell and in the Neighbourhood should not equally succeed in general Practice; it is involved in no mysterious Subtlety, but founded upon a strict, frugal and judicious Administration of the Poor Laws: in distributing the Parochial Funds it takes into Consideration the Character and Conduct of the Person applying for Relief; it discriminates carefully between the innocent, the idle, the profligate, the sturdy and the criminal Claimants; it protects even the Victims of their own Follies and Vices from absolute Want, but checks the Progress of Indigence, with its inseparable Companions—Misery and Guilt, by interposing that corrective Discipline and salutary Restraint which the Wisdom and Humanity of the Legislature have sanctioned, not less for the Security of the rich, than for the Preservation and Happiness of the Poor. These, it must be acknowledged, are important Duties, and their beneficial Influence will be conclusively demonstrated if we contemplate the Condition of the Working Classes in this District. Look at the Independence, Forethought and Industry revived among the inferior Members of the Community: contrast the empty Approaches to the Justice Room at Southwell with the Scene formerly presented by the wretched Complainants who were accustomed to crowd before the Magistrates with urgent Applications for Relief, grounded upon fictitious Sufferings, and supported by shameless Perjuries: proceed to our Workhouses — observe the Decency, Cleanliness and Comfort pervading every Part of them; you will not then hesitate to pronounce every such Establishment an Hospital for the infirm, an Asylum for the aged, and a School for the young, but a Terror to the dissolute and refractory.

"Surely a permanent Reduction of the Parochial Burdens, effected by recalling the Poor to the Duties of Self-support and Moral Rectitude, is well entitled to the active and zealous Cooperation of every Individual who feels animated by a Disposition to promote the Welfare of the Working Classes or the general Good of the Community."

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This Extract includes the practical Instructions which I have issued to the Parishes, and they are strictly those by which they are governed in the Parish of Southwell individually, with a Rental of 9,681l. a Year, according to our Parochial Valuation, and with a Population of 3,057 Persons, as well as in Forty-nine united Parishes, with a Rental of 106,401l. a Year, and with a Population exceeding 14,279 Persons. On Tuesday last, those Forty-nine Parishes were by their Guardians all assembled at our Quarterly Meeting; I stated to them the Object of my Attendance here, and desired them to give me individually an Answer to this Question: —Have you any Roundsmen or any able-bodied Men, or any Men of any Description, whether able or infirm, who are paid partly out of the Rates and partly by their Employers? But out of these Fortynine united Parishes, only Three able-bodied Persons were stated to have been relieved; one a Man with Five Children, and another with Six Children, who receive a Shilling each. Their Answer was, that they understood, that if they could not support their Families, they were to give them Assistance when their Families exceeded Four Children in Number. Besides these Allowances, there was a Half Crown given to a Man of indifferent Character, whom no Person wished to employ. In certain Hundreds, Nottinghamshire has been most grievously pauperized at one Time, though not perhaps from the same Causes as the Southern Counties are at this Moment

What has been the Result of the Adoption of this System in the Habits of the Lower Orders?

The Lower Orders before the Adoption of this Anti-pauper System were insolent, overbearing and refractory, not only towards the Overseers of the Poor, but even occasionally towards the Magistrates; the Doors of our Petty Sessions were weekly thronged with Applicants for Parochial Relief, which the Paupers claimed as their Right, so that they addressed us rather as Demandants than as Petitioners. Now the State of the Poor is altered for the better, not only in their Conduct towards the Magistrates, but towards the Overseers: indeed, several of the Overseers state, that had not some Change taken place, no pecuniary Consideration could have induced them to officiate in the Management of the Poor. At our Justice Room in Southwell we have not issued, I think, within this last Twelvemonth, Two Orders for Relief upon any Parish.

Have you refused many Applications?

No; and though Burnings have occurred in every surrounding County—in Lincolnshire, Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Leicestershire and upon the very Borders of Nottinghamshire, we have had no such Act committed, within my Knowledge, in this County, nor any tumultuous Offence, nor any Special Constables sworn in in either of the Districts to which I belong. At the Quarter Sessions both for the Division of Newark and for the Liberty of Southwell, in January last, I had the Gratification of announcing to the Grand Juries of both those Sessions that there was not a single indictable Charge to be preferred before them, either for a Misdemeanor or for a Felony.

Have their Comforts also increased under that System?

Indescribably. The Poor in the Parish of Thurgaton, of which I am an Incumbent, have their Houses as well furnished and their Persons as well clad, according to their Circumstances, as any of their Superiors. There is a Population in that Parish of 330 Persons, of whom Forty-five are Agricultural Labourers Families.

What is the Number of Acres in that Parish?

It contains Three thousand Acres. I hold in my Hand a List of the Deposits of the Thurgaton Labourers in the Southwell Saving Bank, which are 1,036l. 5s. 10d.

During what Period?

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They are occasionally drawing out their Sums, and lending them elsewhere; therefore I do not imagine the above Sum to be more than Half the Capital which they have actually realized; besides which, Nine Persons have paid amongst them 70l. for the Redemption of all the Payments due on account of their Insurances in Sickness, old Age and on Death: according to my System of Friendly Societies, they have secured Annuities for their old Age, as well as in Sickness, together with Medical Attendance and Medicines. In the Parish of Southwell, the Deposits in our Savings Bank by the Labourers and Servants exceed 2,000l.

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Have you drawn any Comparison between the Agricultural Population existing in those Districts and in any other Part of the Country which appears to be most distressed by a Population beyond their present Means of Employment?

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I have. When I was desired to attend this Committee, I conceived that a primary Object in administering a Remedy for the Distress which now pervades the Southern Counties was to endeavour to trace it to its Origin; to ascertain, if one District be pauperized and another be not, whether there can be discovered any such relative Difference in their Circumstances as might explain the Cause of that Vice and Wretchedness which has deluged some of the Southern Counties. The Application for my Attendance having been conveyed to me by The Duke of Richmond, through The Duke of Portland, I selected Sussex; and certain Questions having arisen as to whether the Country is or is not over peopled, the Malthusians maintaining that it was, and the Sadlerians that it was not, while others affirm that there was such a Deficiency of Employment in the Southern Counties as to render it impossible to uphold the Labouring Classes, I have framed a Comparative Statement of several Circumstances elucidating those Points respectively in Nottinghamshire and in Sussex, which I have now the Honour to submit. The Proposition which I lay down is that adopted by Mr. Senior, which I think is self-evident, "that the Rate of Wages depends upon the Extent of the Fund for the Maintenance of Labourers, compared with the Number of Labourers to be maintained;" accordingly, I have taken the Documents upon which my Reasoning is founded from Parliamentary Reports. The Square Miles in Nottinghamshire are 837, and the Square Miles of Sussex are 1,463; then, for the Purpose of Argument, I multiply the Square Miles by 640, which will give in Nottinghamshire 535,680 Acres, Sussex 936,320 Acres. Moreover, as it has been assumed by Arthur Young and others, that One Seventh is not in Cultivation, and consequently produces not the same Proportion of Labour, I take that One Seventh out of the Total Quantity, which will of course make against the Argument, by reducing the Quantity of Land so that there will be to Nottinghamshire 459,155, and for Sussex 802,560; therefore these Two Quantities give us respectively Six Sevenths of the whole Acreage, being what I assumed to be the cultivated Acres. Then the Agricultural Families, according to the Population Return in 1821, were, in Nottinghamshire, 13,664, and in Sussex, 21,920; and it has been supposed by Colquhoun, in his Work upon the Resources of the British Empire, that, taking any Number of those Persons classed as Labourers under the Population Returns, Seven Twelfths of them may be classed as Labourers, and Five Twelfths as small Yeomanry or Tenantry. I shall shew what it would be as to both these Classes. Now, taking Seven Twelfths of the Agricultural Families, we have for Nottinghamshire 7,974 Agricultural Labourers Families, and 12,790 for Sussex. I say that in Sussex they seem to have more Resources than we have in Nottinghamshire, and that the Fund divisible among the Labourers is greater in proportion; for those 459,155 Square Acres divided by 7,974, the above-mentioned Number of Agricultural Families, will give Fifty-seven Acres to a Family in Nottinghamshire, but it will give Sixty-two Acres in Sussex; or taking every Labourer's Family, as Thirty-three Acres in Nottinghamshire, and Thirty-six Acres in Sussex. In Nottinghamshire, if a Pound an Acre be expended in Agricultural Labour, then, supposing the whole of the Agricultural Family to be considered as daily Labourers, that will give 33l. for every such Families in Nottinghamshire, and 36l. in Sussex. I then take the whole of the Population of the Two Counties, and I find them thus classed. In the Population Returns for Nottinghamshire, Agricultural, 13,964, Sussex, 21,920; Nottinghamshire, Trade, 21,832, in Sussex 15,463; and other Families, 3,107 for Nottinghamshire, and other Families for Sussex 6,182. Then we have the Total Families. The Amount of those is, Total Families for Nottinghamshire 38,603, and the Total Families for Sussex 43,565. The Total Population in Nottinghamshire is 186,873, and the Total Population in Sussex is 233,019. Now, the Total Population being divided by the Number of Families, gives the Number in each Family, being Four and Eight Tenths for Nottinghamshire, and Five and Three Tenths for Sussex; that is, there is One Half of an Individual more in every Family in Sussex than in Nottinghamshire. The Expenditure for the Poor of Nottinghamshire was, according to the last Return, in local Taxation, up to Lady Day 1829, 69,137l., which, divided by the Number of Acres above given, shews that our Taxation was 2s. 7d. an Acre; and the Sum expended for the Poor in Sussex being 235, 145l., this Amount, divided by the Number of Acres, gives 5s. 0¼d. per Acre; therefore the Result is entirely the Reverse of that we should have imagined from this Process of Calculation. But we will try it in another Way. I have also taken the Calculation at the Rate per Head. If you take for the Cost of the Poor in Nottinghamshire the same as before, it is 69,137£, and this, divided by the Population as above stated, gives 7s. 4½d. for each Person; and the same Process being conducted for Sussex, we have 1l. 0s. 2¾d. per Head upon the Population. Thus they are paying in Sussex for every Person (not comprising Paupers only, but for every Individual,) at that Rate. Moreover, it has been before shewn that the cultivated Acres, divided by the Total Number of Families employed in Agriculture, give for every such Family in Nottinghamshire Thirty-three Acres, and in Sussex Thirty-six; and that they give, as before shewn, for Labourers Families Fifty-seven Acres, and in Sussex Sixty-two. If we suppose that the Sum of 1l. is expended per Acre for Agricultural Labour, which I shall shew to be a fair Average for Nottinghamshire, then we have for every Labourer's Family 57l., and for every Agricultural Family 33l., in Nottinghamshire, and in Sussex, 62l. and 36£, which is more than sufficient for the Maintenance of the Families. But some Persons

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will say that 1l. an Acre is not an Average Payment for Labourers Wages. Then we will take it at 15s. an Acre. That will produce for every Agricultural Family in Nottinghamshire 24l. 15s., and for every Labourer's Family 42l. 15s.; and in Sussex, 27l. for every Agricultural Family, and 46l. 10s. for every Labourer's Family; and I will shew, that if the whole of the Families were to be maintained at 15s. an Acre, it is more than the Families would cost us as they are maintained in our incorporated Workhouse. But it may be said that 15s. per Acre for Labour is too high. Then at 10s. the Result will be, that in Nottinghamshire we shall have 16l. 10s. for the Agricultural Families, and 28l. 10s. for the Labourers; while in Sussex they will have 18l. for the Agricultural Families, and 31l. for the Labourers; and in every Case the Solution comes out against Nottinghamshire and in favour of Sussex. Yet Pauperism does not predominate in Nottinghamshire, while I fear it does in Sussex, as well as in several other Counties. And as it has been shewn that every Family in Nottinghamshire consists of Four and Eight Tenths, and in Sussex of Five and Three Tenths, these Suppositions, according as they are taken, will produce respectively for each Agricultural Family in Nottinghamshire, 33l., 24l. 15s. or 16l. 10s., or in Sussex, 36l., 27l. or 18l.; for each Individual of each Family in Nottinghamshire, 6l. 17s. 6d., 5l. 3s. 1½d. or 3l. 8s. 9d., or in Sussex, for each Member of the Family, 6l. 15s., 5l. 1s. 3d. or 3l. 7s. 6d.; and 57l. or 42l. 15s. or 28l. 10s. respectively for every Labourer's Family employed in Agriculture in Nottinghamshire, or for every Member of such Family 11l. 17s. 6d., 8l. 18s. 1½d. or 5l. 18s. 9d.; or in Sussex each Family will have 62l. or 46l. 10s. or 31l., and each Individual of such Family will have 11l. 13s. 11½d., 8l. 15s. 5½d., or 5l. 16s. 11¾d., which is more than the actual Cost of Maintenance, including Rent and Apparel, without the Addition of Money expended out of the Poor's Rates. Moreover, I make a Reserve, for I have left 27,000l. a Year expended on the Highways in Sussex out of the Question. For the Maintenance and Apparel of a Man and his Wife and Three Children under Ten Years of Age in the incorporated Workhouse at Southwell, with the Addition of 1s. Weekly for Rent, amounts to 9s. 8d. a Head, or annually to 25l. 2s. 8d., being an Annual Average of 5l. 0s. 6½d. for each Individual; so that I assume nothing but what I can prove from Experience to be the actual Cost of Maintenance for a Pauper's Family in the Poorhouse, where they are maintained very sufficiently. They have Meat twice a Week; and from the Inquiry I have made, they subsist as well as the Poor do out of Doors. The Dietary is this: every Morning, Breakfast, Milk and Bread or Gruel and Bread; Supper every Evening, Milk and Bread, or Gruel and Bread, or Bread and Cheese; Dinner, on Sunday and Thursday, Beef and Potatoes; on Monday and Friday, Broth and Bread or Milk and Bread; on Tuesday, Pease Soup, with Beef Broth and Potatoes; on Wednesday, Rice Milk; on Saturday, Hasty Pudding or Dumplings. Now in computing the Subsistence, I divide it into Parts; that is, the integral Sum for the Maintenance or the Apparel of an Adult is divided into Four Parts; the integral Sum of their Maintenance is at present 2s. 4d. Weekly, or 7d. for each Part; and the integral Sum of their Apparel is 4d., or 1d. for each Part; therefore a Child takes Two Parts, that is, 1s. 2d. Weekly for Maintenance, and 2d. Weekly for Apparel; a Female takes Three Parts; and a Man Four Parts. Boys from Ten to Fifteen are treated as Females: thus a Child takes Two Parts, that is, 1s. 2d., and for its Apparel it takes 2d., that is 1s 4d.; a Female takes Three Parts, 1s. 9d., and for her Apparel 3d., that is 2s.; a Man takes Four Parts, 2s. 4d., and for his Apparel 4d.; and we who have conducted it for a considerable Time know these Sums to be sufficient for the Maintenance and Apparel of a Labourer's Family; consequently, if only 10s. an Acre were paid for Agricultural Cultivation in Sussex, and if such a Sum were properly and equitably distributed among the Poor, so that each Workman might be paid according to his Labour, not according to the Number of his Family, then it would be found that there is sufficient to maintain the whole of the Agricultural Population. We may proceed, and say, perhaps they have more Persons upon a Square Mile in Sussex than we have. No such Thing. We have 223 upon the Square Mile in Nottinghamshire, whereas they have only 159 in Sussex. Then we relieve Seven and a Half in every One hundred Persons, but they relieve Fourteen in every One hundred; and if it be assumed that when they relieve Fourteen, each Individual relieved is equal to himself and a Child, or is to be doubled, then this Number will be raised to Twenty-eight. Moreover, we have Eleven and a Half per Cent. of our Population in Friendly Societies, while they have only Two and a Half per Cent. in Sussex.

The Witness delivers in the Paper, which is read, and is as follows:

Southwell, 1st March 1831.

Before a Remedy can be proposed for the Prevention of that Pauperism which at present prevails throughout the Southern Counties of Great Britain, it appears desirable to investigate the Causes of this Evil, and to determine whether it arises from a Deficiency in the Funds available for the Employment of Agricultural Human Labour, or from a superabundant Population among the inferior Classes of Society, or from Mal-administration of the Poor Laws; therefore I shall endeavour to ascertain the Amount of the Funds expended upon Agricultural Labour in Nottinghamshire and Sussex, together with other Circumstances tending to elucidate this Subject.

The Proposition assumed is, "that the Rate of Wages depends upon the Extent of the Funds for the Maintenance of Labourers compared with the Number of Labourers to be maintained;" consequently, if it be shewn that the Funds annually subsisting in any County are evidently sufficient for the Support of the Agricultural Labourers, the Pauperism of this Class now prevailing therein may be ascribed to the Misappropriation of these Funds, by an Interference between Demand and Supply in the Market for Human Labour, by an impracticable Attempt to unite the Results of free and of forced Labour by an Adjustment of the Labourers Wages, not according to the Value of his Work, but according to the Necessities of his Family, and by the Payment of Wages partly out of the Funds for Labour, and partly out of the Parish Rates.

Such are the Practices which have pauperized the Southern Counties; while Nottinghamshire and the Northern Counties, by adopting the Anti-pauper System, without any apparent Advantages, except such as appertain equally to the Southern Parts of England, have been enabled to maintain the able-bodied Poor and their Families in honest Independence, by paying the Labourer his just Hire, and by a strict Observance of the Anti-pauper System.

J. T. Becher.

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I was asked by The Duke of Portland, whether I had ascertained the Prices of Labour; and I stated that I had endeavoured so to do, but that I should be thankful if he would assist me with better Information; and His Grace has given me this Statement — the Expenditure on The Duke of Portland's Farm at Clipstone, in Nottinghamshire, during the Year 1830, which is as follows. Here are the different Items, amounting to 2,320l. 16s., yielding 1l. 10s. 11½d. per Acre. The Extent of this Farm is 1,500 Acres, of which 200 are Water Meadows, requiring the Attendance of about Nine Men during the whole of the Summer Season.

The same is delivered in and read, and is as follows:

Paid at Clipstone Park in Labour only, in the Year 1830.

Then The Duke of Portland procured me, from Mr. Godfrey, who is our Clerk of the Peace as well as the Agent of His Grace, and who has long held a Farm in his own Hands, his Expences of Occupation. Mr. Godfrey's Expences of Occupation are, for the Year ending at Lady Day 1829, 411l. 7s. 3½d., for the Year ending at Lady Day 1830, 489l. 19s. 9½d.; being 1l. 4s. 2d. per Acre in 1829, and 1l. 8s. 10d. per Acre in 1830.

The same is delivered in and read, and is as follows:

The Farm consists of 340 Acres, of which 80 Acres are in permanent Grass, and 260 Acres of which there is nearly equal Quantity of Clay and Sand Land.

The Equality of Expenditure for daily Wages and for Task Work is rather extraordinary, but the Abstract is carefully made.

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I have applied to another Person, whom I consider as one of the first Authorities we have in the Kingdom, upon the Subject of

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Agricultural Labour, Mr. John Parkinson, the Superintendent for The Duke of Newcastle's Estates, and employed extensively as a Commissioner of Inclosures and as a Land Valuer. This is his Letter:

Upon examining my Farming Accounts I find that I have paid the following Wages to Labourers during the last Three Years, on an Average:—

It has cost me more than 30s. per Acre per Annum for all the Land I farm; viz. 310 Acres here, which is Mr. Lumley Saville's Property, and 310 Acres of my own Land situate in South Clifton, &c.; but I have furrow-loughed and under-drained a considerable Quantity of Land, have made Roads, and many new Fences, and effected various other Improvements which are not usually done at the Expence of a Tenant, and seldom by an Occupier of his own Estate. I have obtained the following Particulars from a Friend who has farmed 900 Acres (chiefly strong Land) in good Method and economically. He has employed thereon 15 able Labourers, whose Wages on an Average for the last Three Years have been about 2s. 6d. per Day, but they are industrious. He has had about 20 Servants, most of them young, and at low Wages, from about 4l. to 8l. excepting Three or Four from 10l. to 12l. each. His yearly Expenditure for Labour, including Board of Servants and for Wages, and Board of a Carpenter and Blacksmith, (when employed,) has been fully 1,100l. a Year, or 1l. 4s. 5¼d. per Acre. The Duke of Newcastle's Farm consists of about 1,000 Acres; Part of light sandy Soil, which is farmed in the Four-course System; the Remainder, permanent Pasture and Meadow. The Labourers employed are industrious and properly directed, and their Wages, especially for the older Men employed, are rather higher than the Average of the Wages I have paid. The Land is in a good State of Cultivation, and the following Sums have been paid for Labour thereon, including for Blacksmith and Wheelwrights Work:

The last Harvest was much more expensive than that of the preceding Years; and all the Corn has been thrashed by Hand since Harvest, instead of by a Machine, as heretofore; and Wages have not been less than 2s. by the Day during the last Winter. It has been usual to reduce the Wages of Labourers to 1s. 8d. per Day during the Winter Months. For which Reasons the Expences for Labour have been so much more than in the Two former Years. The foregoing are about the Average Wages paid by Farmers generally to Labourers in this Neighbourhood, but many Tenants who farm indifferently do not expend more than 15s. per Acre in Labour yearly. I think that, with the Exception of uncultivated Forest Land, the Average Amount paid for Labour in this County may be stated at nearly 20s. per Acre per Annum. The Woods are extensive, but taking into Account the Labourers employed therein, and in the Parks, Pleasure Grounds and Gardens, &c. of the principal Owners, the Expences for Labour therein must exceed 20s. per Acre per Annum.

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Having occupied for several Years about 130 Acres of our Family Property, I draw the Conclusion, from my personal Knowledge, and Experience through other Channels — having acted under the Property Tax, and having assisted in assessing the whole Parish of Southwell, after having mapped it with my own Hand — yet I can affirm that I have never been able to bring the Rate of Labour so low as a Pound an Acre. I have asked Two Farmers in our Parish what they thought the Expence of Labour, and I found it to be nearly the same. Probably a Question may arise with the Farmers in the South, if these People pay this Expence, can they realize any Capital. Mr. Parkinson has stated in his Letter, that he has 310 Acres of his own; and when I state that I believe him and the Two Mr. Milwards to possess Property realized by farming, and by the Investment of their Capital in Land, worth more than 100,000l. I verily believe this Sum to be below the actual Amount of their Property. Indeed I know not that a more opulent Yeomanry will be found any where than in Nottinghamshire. There is a third Mr. Milward of this Family, a Landowner in my Parish, not one of whom I should say that is worth so little as 30,000l.

Can you form any Estimate, or have you any Grounds for forming an Estimate, of the relative Value of the Land in Sussex and in Nottinghamshire?

I would refer to the Returns in 1815; whence it will be found, that the Rental of Nottinghamshire was 737,229l. and of Sussex 915,348l. I have farmed about 130 Acres myself of strong Clay, and kept very accurate Accounts, and I know that in every Year I have had a Farmer's Profit, except in the Year 1822, which happened to be an unproductive Year with us. The Wages that I pay my head Man, who can neither read nor write, who neither buys nor sells so as to become taxable as a Bailiff, but acts as a labouring Man, are as follows: I pay him 13s. Weekly during Winter and Summer; and to his Boy, about Twelve Years of Age, 5s. a Week regularly; and to another Boy, about Nine Years of Age, 2s. regularly; and occasionally to his Wife and his other Boy about an Average Sum of 1s. more Weekly: this amounts to 21s.; and I allow him a House and Garden, and Coals and Milk for his Family, which may be reckoned at 3s. a Week; yet I thought this Man's additional Work so considerable that I made him a Present of Two Guineas last Harvest. Farmers would say, in the South, such Wages were ruinous. The Average Wages of my People working by Task Work are these: they earn not less than 12s. in Winter, nor more than 14s.; during the Harvest Months the Labourers have, some 16s. and some 15s. a Week, besides an occasional Allowance of Ale. The Man I have spoken of first receives his regular Wages during Winter and Summer, but he of course receives Ale with the rest.

All the Calculations upon the relative Condition of Nottinghamshire and Sussex would be varied, would they not, first, by the relative Qualities of the Land, secondly, by the relative Proportion between the Agricultural and the Manufacturing Population?

The relative Proportion between the Manufacturing and Agricultural Population would not vary the Question, because I have taken only the Agricultural Families.

You have taken the Agricultural Families, deducting One Seventh from the gross Amount of Labouring Population?

No; I have made a Deduction of One Seventh, to set the Question against myself; and I have taken out the Roads; after which I have ascertained, by the Parliamentary Returns, what are the Agricultural Families. Then I have endeavoured to discriminate between Agricultural Families and Labourers Families. If there are Twelve Agricultural Families, Mr. Colquhoun assumes that Seven Twelfths of those will be subsisted by labouring Wages; the other Five Twelfths will be Yeomen, or Landowners, or Occupiers.

If the Seven Twelfths be the Basis of your Calculation, if the Bulk of the Population be a Manufacturing Population, not employed in Agricultural Labour, your Results would be varied accordingly?

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They would not be varied at all, because I venture to state that the given Quantity is the Agricultural Population; then we do divide that Sum into Two Quantities; but this Process never interferes with the Artificers. The Question, if I understand it, is, Why does this Distress arise? What are the Funds for the Labourers? If the Funds are adequate to their Sustentation, the Evil must arise from Misapplication or Misappropriation of that Fund, or from some Mal-administration of the Law. We throw the Nonproductive Families as well as the Artificers entirely out of our Consideration, and reduce the Process to a simple Question — the Labourers Families given, so are the Acres of Land; therefore, if we could find correctly the Expence of cultivating each Acre, the Question would be solved. Were they to tell me at Clipstone, the Estate of The Duke of Portland, that the Labourers are in want of Parochial Relief, I should say, that is impossible; there cannot be Distress; because, according to the Population Returns, Agricultural Families are only Forty-two in Number, and the Sum expended in Agricultural Labour by The Duke of Portland alone is more than sufficient for their Support.

The Quality of Land in the Two Counties would vary your Result?

The Quality of Land might vary it; but still I put that Question to Mr. J. Parkinson, who thought it a fair Parallel; he said, "Perhaps, take it altogether, Nottinghamshire may be a little better." I have requested The Duke of Portland, when he sent for his Agent, to endeavour to correct any Error; but even if we suppose the relative Expenditure for Labour not to be equal, and that in Sussex they do not spend a Pound an Acre, though we have occasionally spent 30s, still they must spend at least 15s., or even if they spend 10s. an Acre this Evil ought not to exist.

You are aware that a great Part of Sussex is in Downs?

Yes; and a very considerable Proportion of Nottinghamshire is in Forest, and incapable of Cultivation; a great deal of Land is light blowing Red Sand, unproductive, thrown back into Sheep Walks, because it cannot otherwise be profitably cultivated.

Much would depend upon the relative Proportion of that uncultivated Land, if you take the Square Acre?

Yes; but that will apply to any District. Something like a Principle might be grounded upon that Observation if this Antipauper System were peculiar to Nottinghamshire; I would say that it might be considered as peculiar; but The Reverend Mr. Whatlley writes to me thus: "Thank you for your Anti-pauper System, we have reduced our Poor's Rates from 12s. to 2s. in the Pound." And I have a Letter from Mr. Baker, in Gloucestershire, who resides in a pauperized District of that County, where this System has produced the same Effect. The late High Sheriff for Essex called and visited Southwell to inspect our Establishments and to judge for himself; he then decided, upon personal Observation, and said, "This must be the System to save Essex." He returned to Essex, and established a Union of Parishes upon our System. He has there associated with very good and intelligent Men; one, his Uncle, Mr. William Smith of Norwich; the other, The Reverend John Oldham, who has co-operated with him in carrying these Plans into Execution. They have deviated in only one instance, which was connecting Offices of Secretary and Governor; and he has reduced the Rates already in about a Year from 4l. to 2l. Instead of paying the Labourers partly out of Rate and partly by Wages, he pays no able-bodied Labourers out of the Rates. The Parish were so much against him, that out of Twenty-three constituting the Hundred, only Ten would unite; but now they are all ready to join if a Union were practicable. He has effected all this in the Face of the Poor, who threatened to pull down his House, not on this Account, but in consequence of the Outrages pervading the Country. He authorizes me to say, that, as far as his Experience extends, the System is complete. I have another Letter from Mr. Baker of Uley, in Gloucestershire, which was pauperized; he says this,

"Sir,

"May I hope that you will kindly excuse the Liberty I take in thus troubling you, not having the Pleasure of being known to you.

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"Though not residing in it, I am connected with the Parish of Uley, in the manufacturing Part of this County. Trade has decayed, and the Poor Rates had increased and were continuing to increase to a most alarming Extent. The Poor were idle and insolent, and all Things were getting from bad to worse, notwithstanding the Exertions of a very active and intelligent Select Vestry. Emigration, different Modes of Employment, and other Things were proposed and rejected. I had heard of your Anti-pauper System, and of other Works on the same Subject by Mr. Bosworth, Capt. Nicholl and others. I read them, and submitted the whole to the Consideration of the Parish. The Plan was adopted some Months ago, and has been attended with Success far beyond the utmost which I had dared to hope for. Should you think it worth your Attention I shall be happy to lay before you a short Statement of what has been done, and of the Effect which has been produced; but most probably you have seen so many such that you have little or nothing to learn, and therefore that you will not wish for it.

"One Part of the Effect which we see is, I must confess, beyond my Comprehension. I was much afraid that withdrawing Parish Relief from Persons who had been during their whole Lives used to work in their Houses, or at least under Cover, and thus forced to adopt other Employments, would at first be an exceeding great Hardship upon them, and that it would be injurious to the Health of many of them. I thought also that they would at first not know how to obtain Work for themselves; I therefore took much pains to get Work for many of them during the Harvest, and I was fortunate in finding it for them at a Distance from the Parish. I had no Hope but that when this was over, and the Men had returned Home, they would again have applied for Parish Pay; I was afraid of pressing the Thing too hard at first; and having decreased our Pay about 12l. per Week during the Summer, we were all well satisfied with it as a Beginning, and hoped to do more next Year; but to my Astonishment, although the Harvest is over, and the Men have long been returned, we have no more Applications for Relief than we had while it continued. When we found them Work we took off their Pay; and now that the Work is over they do not ask us to put it on again. It seems, therefore, almost as if we had done no Good by finding Work for them; we mean, however, to continue it as far as we can through the Winter. How they find it for themselves I cannot conceive; but I have heard from different Persons who reside in the Parish, and who from the Difference in their Stations and Habits I have every Reason to believe had never conversed together on the Subject, such Accounts of the State of the Poor as give me the strongest Ground for hoping that since the Establishment of your System Crime is rapidly decreasing, and that good Order, Industry, and all that can make a poor Man respectable will increase and be firmly established. I never ventured to hope that such an Effect as we see could have been produced in so very short a Time. Should it continue, as I firmly believe it will, we shall have Reason to be most truly grateful to you and to the other Gentlemen who have, by establishing the System and publishing an Account of it, admitted us to so great a Benefit.

"And this brings me back to the Cause of my thus troubling you. The Anti-pauper System is out of print; there is not, as I believe, a single Copy of it for Sale in London; I have been inquiring for it for several Months, as I wish to add it to a Collection of Pamphlets on the same Subject, and to lend it to several of my Friends; I have not been able to get any of them, excepting one which I have borrowed and must return. I hear from every one, that a new Edition is in the Press; but when it will come out no one knows. If you would be good enough to inform me when it will come out, and what Bookseller in London will publish it, so that I may get it as soon as possible, you would greatly oblige me. I wish much that I could enable some of my Friends to read it before the next Quarter Sessions, but that I fear is impossible.

"P. S.—Out of a Population of about 3,000 Persons, with the Exception of a few Orphan Children, there are only Five in the Uley Workhouse. Fifteen Rates of 20d. in the Pound, assessed at nearly the full Value of the Land, did not quite pay the Poor, &c. last Year."

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I have here a Synopsis of Results of certain Queries proposed to the Overseers of the Poor of several Parishes within the Hundred of Redbornstoke, in the County of Bedford. Those are Agricultural Parishes; therefore this Statement will bring the Matter nearly to an Issue. I will not take each Parish individually, but the whole Hundred. The Questions proposed are Fourteen in Number. I will state how Circumstances are in Redbornstoke, and how they stand in Southwell, and will specify the relative Proportions of Southwell, taking, first, the Population as Unity, and afterwards taking the Number of Acres as Unity. What is the Number of Acres within your Hundred? 38,037; at Southwell we have 4,500. The Population of Redbornstoke Hundred is 13,511; the Population of Southwell 3,051. The first Comment I shall make is, that in Redbornstoke they have Three Acres to a Man, and we have only One and a Half for a Man. What are the Number of Rate Payers? 982 with them, and 622 with us. We have more, because we rate all the Poor. What is the Number of able-bodied Labourers? 2,177 in this Hundred; 217 in Southwell. What Proportion of these able-bodied Labourers receive Assistance from the Parochial Funds? 640 for Redbornstoke; not a Man in Southwell. What is the Number of Persons composing their Families, and with them dependent, either wholly or partially, on the Parochial Funds for Support? In Redbornstoke 3,786; in Southwell only Sixteen Children, who during the Winter Months are schooled and fed in the Day-time at the Workhouse, where they are taught to read, knit and sew, and they return Home to their Families at Night. The next Question is, What is the Rate of Relief granted to able-bodied pauper Labourers? They give a graduated Weekly Allowance to a single Man, and a Man with his Wife, and with One and Two and Three and Four and Five Children; we know of no such Doctrine; we give no such Relief. What Sum has been expended in the Maintenance of the Poor during the last Three Years? In the Hundred 50,761l.; 1,737l. with us. I will afterwards come to the relative Proportions. What Proportion of that Expenditure has been incurred for the Support of able-bodied Labourers in the Hundred; 13,674l. What Amount for Southwell? None. Therefore I think the natural Conclusion must be, that this Sum must be paid for Labour in some Shape or other. What Proportion of the Expenditure has been incurred in support of Families? 9,429l. in the Hundred has been incurred; and only 30l. in Southwell, which is for the Maintenance of the Children. Is there a Poorhouse in the Parish? Yes: and we have a Poorhouse. What Proportion of the Labourers now belonging to the Parish would be sufficient to perform all the Labour necessary to be habitually performed, including Repair of Roads, &c.? They say 1,496; whereas the Southwell Labourers would be insufficient, unless assisted by Artificers and Labourers from other Parts during Harvest Months. The Labourers employed at Southwell do not necessarily belong to the Parish; we leave the Market of Labour quite free and open for the Poor. What Number can be spared? They say 681; we say, not One. The Annual Increase of Male Population, most of whom are Labourers, they say is 111; we say 19. The Number of Acres to each able-bodied Labourer with them is 18¾; with us, 21. So that the Difference, though not very great, is rather in favour of Southwell. The Average Annual Amount of Poor's Rates for Ten Years, up to Lady Day 1827, with them was 15,714l., and with us, 726l. For Five Years, the Period to which I have before spoken, the Annual Amount of Poor's Rates per Acre with them is 7s. 10d., and with us is 3s. 2½d.

The Witness delivers in the Synopsis, which is read, and is as follows:

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Now the Quantities of the Hundred and the Quantities of Southwell not being the same, in order to institute a strict Comparison it becomes necessary to adopt some common Calculator. I have taken Unity for this Purpose; but to avoid Decimal Fractions I will take it at 10,000; then each Figure may be regarded as an Integer. Supposing the Population of each District to be 10,000, when they had 10,000 Rate Payers we should have 2,300. Counting Two Boys for One Man, we should have 4,412 able-bodied Labourers when they had 10,000; and when they were expending 10,000l. upon the Population we should expend only 142l.; and when they were paying 13,674l. in Allowances to able-bodied Labourers, we should not spend any thing. But if it be said that we should take the Calculation upon the Acre, then it will stand thus:—When they have 10,000 Labourers we should have 19,000, because our Acres are fewer; so that we should have nearly Two to One upon the Acre. Their Number of Rate Payers would be 10,000; our Number of Rate Payers would be 53,458. And when they pay 10,000l. to Labourers Families we pay 270l. The Rental of this Hundred under the Property Tax Act was 51,695l. The Rental of the Parish of Southwell, including Houses, being 10,464l. gives about 3l. 8s. 6d. a Year per Acre. The State in which we relatively stand I conceive to be this:—In 1795, when a Part of the Population was withdrawn for the Army and Navy, that necessarily created a temporary Void, which was to be filled up, either by increasing the Population, or by improving the Industry of the People. In Berkshire they met at Speenhamland, and they determined to keep down the Rate of Wages, and to dole out a certain Portion of Wages parochially to the Poor; so that when the War ceased the People might again return to their former Occupations, and Circumstances might resume their original State. On the contrary, we said to the Labourers, we will convert your Day Labour into Task Work, and we will improve your Industry and your Fortunes, by enabling you, if you are diligent, to enjoy the Benefit which may be realized by the Acquirement of additional Capital. We will suppose that the Number of Labourers was 600. We say to the Labourers, increase your Industry, and we will give you Task Work, so that you can work Seven Days in the Week. Then we have 600 performing the Work of 700; the 100 withdrawn creates no Inconvenience, for the 600 who remain are benefited by the Opportunity of increasing their Capital; and this Arrangement continues even to the present Day. Our Men are constantly working at Task Work Seven Days in Summer; also the Labourers, in several Employments, rise at Five, and withdraw from their Labour at Seven. The Consequence has been, that our Labourers have furnished their Houses, and invested their little Money in the Savings Banks, and purchased out their Assurances in our Friendly Society. Above 700l. have been paid for Redemption, for the Purpose of enabling the Members to stand quite independent, in Sickness, old Age, and so as to defray the Expences that attach on Death. They became quite a different Class of People to that of the Southern Counties, where their Employers said, we will fill up this Void created by the War, therefore they procured 100 more Men, so that while we were performing our Work with 600 they were employing 700. But that was not the Extent of the Evil; they very soon found that servile Labour can never compete with free Labour; a Slave never can equal a free Man. So they found that more such Labourers were required to do the Work of One Man, as it is

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stated in the Parliamentary Report on Wages. Even when our County was to a certain degree pauperized by throwing upon us the Artificers, though we never got into a regular System of paying Part Labour and Part Rates, yet when we were obliged to take a Number of Men thrown out of Employment by the reduced Prices in the Manufactures of our County, we found that Four pauperized Men did not perform the Work of One independent Labourer. In fact I asked my head Man and our Overseer, as well as the Surveyor of the Turnpike Roads, what Number of such Men they estimated as equal to One of our Freemen; to which they severally replied, that they thought the Proportion to be as Four to One; but I will take it as only Two to One. Then, in the Southern Counties their 700 Labourers increased to 1,400, which Increase was effected by a perpetually progressive Ratio of the Population; so that when they wished to stem the Torrent they found they could not do it. The War ceased: the Poor came back to their Abodes: our 600 People fell back upon their Capital; they had their Resources, together with their former Opportunities of Employment; whereas the People who came back into the Southern Counties were all Supernumeraries. When a Man returns to us, we inquire, Where is your Capital; first, your Industry? The probable Answer is, I have no Employment. Then you have the Capital which you have accumulated, or you can obtain Assistance from the Capital of others; you have Credit? A diligent and frugal Labourer with us possesses Capital of Three Denominations; but in the South they have no Capital. When a Man is refused Relief in a pauperized District, he asks, Am I to starve? I could pauperize Southwell in a very short Time, by pursuing the Course adopted in some Districts. We have 217 able-bodied Labourers at Southwell. Now, supposing we were to reduce their Weekly Wages from 12s., the Average Rate which they now receive, to 8s. a Week, or from 13s. a Week to 9s., and we were to take 4s. a Week from the Wages of each Man, that being 10l. 8s. a Year, we should pay 2,256l. 16s. additional Poor's Rates; then we should cry out that we were aggrieved with Poor's Rates. I contend that such Outpayments are not Poor's Rates, according to the legitimate Interpretation of the Act of the 43d of Elizabeth. We should defraud the Labourer of his Hire, and impose an illegal Tax upon the Wages of the industrious Labourer or the unmarried Man, for the Support of the idle Man, or of the Man that is oppressed with a Family.

Are you not in this Comparison assuming that there is a superabundant Population in those Districts?

Unless it can be shewn upon Paper that the Wages which are expended in Agricultural Labour, or which ought to be so expended, are insufficient for the Support of the Agricultural Families, I may contend that there does not exist a superabundant Population; and in the very Statement which I have already submitted the Argument is against Nottinghamshire; for there is in Nottinghamshire a more numerous Population on every Square Mile than in Sussex; therefore, if they are pauperized in Sussex, we ought to be doubly so in Nottinghamshire. But we escape by employing the Labourers without any Restriction, and by keeping the Market quite free and open. In Summer we employ Labourers from other Parts, and some of the Irishmen to assist during the Harvest Season.

In the last Statement you have made, you referred to Persons returned; did you mean to say, that the Persons who returned were Supernumeraries, and there was no Labour for them? Will you explain that?

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They were Supernumeraries to a certain Extent, by withdrawing a certain Portion of Employment from the pre-existing Labourers. But we found, as it is stated in Mr. Baker's Letter, that they progressively devised Means of Employment, which were perhaps beyond our Discovery— in many Cases beyond our Comprehension. However, it must be recollected, that during the long Period of War the Farmers had been induced, by the advanced Prices of Agricultural Produce, to invest more Capital in the Cultivation of the Soil than had been expended before the War commenced; which may be adduced as one of the principal Causes which prevented the Return of such Labourers from being severely felt. Many of the discharged Men, we may add, were entitled to public Pensions. If the Funds expended on Agricultural Labour be insufficient, the next Question is, whether Land Occupiers expend as much as they ought, or as the Land requires, in Agricultural Cultivation, to yield its full Produce, and at the same Time a sufficient Remuneration for the Capital employed? There was the same Place for our Labourers as there had been before the War; but, as I have stated, there had been a Progression in the Employment applied towards Agriculture during the War; consequently there is a much larger Capital expended now than in 1795. When the System of paying Wages out of the Rates originated in the Southern Counties, Mr. J. Parkinson occupied a strong Clay Land, which he under-drained, by running a Tile Drain down every Furrow. Now, the mere Operation of such a System, if carried on generally, would produce an Infinity of Employment, as the whole Process supplies Labour for the Poor, from the making of the Tile to the Deposit of it in the Drain. The System of draining was very little practised in 1795. The first Book on the Subject within my Recollection was Mr. Elkinton's, published about that Time by the Board of Agriculture. The Farm of The Duke of Portland, to which I have referred, is almost a Creation. So that upon the whole I conclude that the Fund for Agricultural Labour, during the Period of War, was increased, in well-cultivated Districts, more than the Supply demanded by the returning Population.

Do you think that equally applicable to Sussex as to Nottinghamshire?

I am not sufficiently acquainted with Sussex to return a satisfactory Answer. This Inquiry would involve Two or Three Questions. One is, Are the Sussex Farmers Capitalists? In Nottinghamshire we have scarcely a Lease; a perfect Confidence between Landlord and Tenant; the Landlords have been the last to raise their Rents and the first to reduce their Rents; and few would incur the Expence of a Lease if tendered to them. Mr. J. Parkinson is laying out 30s. an Acre on his Landlord's Estate.

Then your Comparison of the Counties of Nottingham and Sussex is not formed on any Knowledge of the Circumstances of the latter County?

It is founded on the documentary Evidence to be found in the Parliamentary Returns, as well as on the best Information that I could collect. Mr. Parkinson was acquainted with Sussex; and I have conferred with others.

In some of the Numerical Statements you have given a Statement of the Average Number of Persons in a Family in Nottinghamshire and in Sussex, and it appears that the Number of Persons in a Family in Sussex is One Tenth greater than in Nottinghamshire, notwithstanding which the Condition of the Poor in Nottinghamshire is better than in Sussex; to what do you attribute that?

I attribute this Circumstance in some measure to the greater degree of Inclination of Persons in Nottinghamshire to invest Capital in Buildings; they have Building Societies among themselves. Those who want an Investment for their Money, in consequence of the recent Limitations prohibiting Savings Banks from receiving more than 30l. a Year, or 150l. in the whole, from each individual Depositor, have invested a Part of their Money in those Building Societies. In the Parish of Thurgaton, of which I am the Incumbent, not only Pauperism but Poverty appears to have been nearly extinguished. The average Weekly Sum paid out of the Poor's Rate for the Maintenance of the Poor during the last Year was only 7s. 6d.

Do not you think that in Nottinghamshire the Condition of the Poor has been materially improved by the Circumstance of so many resident Proprietors of high Rank and considerable Opulence, some of whom, The Duke of Portland for instance, have made extensive Improvements, and thereby afforded Labour for the Poor?

There cannot be a more considerate or beneficent Person on behalf of the Poor, or a kinder or more liberal Landlord upon the Face of the Earth, than The Duke of Portland. His Expenditure in Labour is very considerable. But in recommending the Antipauper System for general Adoption, I should very much err were I not to found my Deductions upon the general Employment provided by the Agricultural Occupiers of the County. For instance, in Southwell we have not a single Person of any very great Property, holding Land in his own Occupation: the Labour in this Parish stands upon the general Principle of regular Employment. At Thurgaton, there the People who so expend their Money in Labour are Persons who have acquired their Property in the ordinary Course of Husbandry, without any Reference to the Influence of great Persons. In Forty-nine united Parishes of which I have a List, as well as a Statement of their Poor Rates, they are cultivated according to the regular Husbandry of the Country; therefore I ascribe it to the Confidence subsisting between Landlord and Tenant, and to the consequent Expenditure of Capital, in Expectation of a remunerating Return.

It appears that the improved Condition of the Labourer is almost co-extensive with the Northern, that is to say, the Manufacturing Districts; and that that which exists in Nottinghamshire applies in a great measure to Lincolnshire, Yorkshire, Durham, Northumberland, and even Lancashire, in which Counties Agricultural Labour is well paid?

This appears to be nearly the Case.

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May not their improved Condition have arisen in some measure from the Connection of Manufactories with those Counties?

I have known Nottinghamshire to a considerable Extent pauperized. In the Year 1812 there were at that Time Parishes in which the Rental was scarcely equal to the Expenditure of the Poor, among which was one Parish belonging to The Duke of Portland. Besides which, I have known Freeholders come to me and declare that the Produce of their Land was not equal to the Payment of their Rates; but this arose from a Stagnation in our Manufacturing Concerns.

Your Attention has been of course directed to Friendly Societies, and every Plan for the Benefit of the Poor?

I have published Systems for several of them.

And your Attention has been turned to the Advantages and Disadvantages likely to arise from Emigration?

I have been a Party in affording the Means of Emigration. In 1819, when our County was again to a certain Extent pauperized, Two Plans were adopted; one was Emigration, which we denominated Colonization; and the other was a Subscription for Relief, to be expended in some public Work, unconnected with private Profit. The principal Persons in our County subscribed Five hundred Pounds each—the leading Country Gentlemen; about a Hundred others, Fifty; and others, Twenty-five; and as well as I can recollect, each of the Subscriptions amounted to about 5,000l. The Subscription for Labour became the popular Subscription with the Lower Orders. It was determined to discover some Work; and they cleaned out a River near Nottingham, which kept the People employed 'till the Tide of Affairs turned in their Favour. The Colonization became unpopular; indeed they called it Transportation. At a Meeting it was arranged that I should undertake the Colonization of those Parties. I, in conjunction with Mr. Godfrey, the Clerk of the Peace, obtained Lists of Colonists. However, some withdrew their Names and their Assent. We proposed to the Parishes, that if they would give a small Sum, about Five Pounds, we would provide the rest; but very few of the Parishes were disposed to such Contribution, and very few of the People were inclined to leave this Country. We sent to Birmingham for useful Implements of various Descriptions; we collected Garden Seeds; we had a little Plan drawn for a Town, and emigrated about 200 of those Persons. In order that they might be perfectly satisfied we sent them down in Coaches to Liverpool, and Two Vessels provided by Government conveyed them to Algoa Bay, in Africa; but the Colony was unfortunate in one respect; the Crops in that Country are occasionally subject to the Rust, which had not occurred for some Years, but visited the Crops during the Two successive Years after the landing of our Party, so that the Colony was subjected to some Difficulty; but since that Time the Accounts which have reached me are exceedingly gratifying and very satisfactory, We had procured a Medical Man to embark with the Colonists, thinking that he was the best Superintendent, as he could act in the several Capacities of Friend, Physician, and Moral Instructor. Unfortunately, however, the Colony lost him by Death soon after his landing. If the same Boon was offered now to Persons in Districts, I have no doubt, from the Number of Letters which I have received, that we should have Applications sufficient to consume the whole of the Sum subscribed; but we were obliged to return about Fifty per Cent. being unable to find Persons who were willing to be, what they called, transported.

Does it not appear that a benevolent Provision has been made for the Protection and Sustenance of the whole Animal Creation?

Undoubtedly it does.

Is it not therefore reasonable to suppose, that the same Benevolence provides equally for the rational as it does for the irrational Part of the Creation?

It undoubtedly does, though the Means of acquiring this Provision are not always organically imparted to the Human as to the Brute Creation.

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Does it not therefore follow, that the Distresses and Privations to which Mankind are subject are not unavoidable Evils, but are mostly attributable to their own Mismanagement and Impolicy?

I conceive this very frequently to be the Case. Indeed I have always affirmed that I never should consent to admit that the Country was absolutely over-peopled until I saw Agriculture progressively advancing towards Horticulture, according to the Quality and Capability of the Soil.

Might not the Surface of the Earth by improved Cultivation be made more productive to an almost indefinite Extent?

I know instances which I could cite of Agriculture approximating nearly to Horticulture. One instance occurs in the Estates of Admiral Sotheron, in the Vicinity of Howden, in Yorkshire. The Farmers have no Fallow there; they crop the Land alternately with Potatoes and Wheat, or with Flax and Wheat; in fact it approaches so nearly to Horticulture that I might almost call it so. I conceive that in some Parts of our Land there is a progressive Approach to Horticulture; the Land is better cleaned; the Fences are kept in better Order; the bountiful Gifts of the Deity are more effectually and more abundantly elicited for the Benefit and Support of Mankind.

Does it not hence appear to be our Duty, instead of sending our most industrious Labourers Abroad, to provide for them as far as can be by Employment and Sustenance at Home?

I conceive that the Strength of every Country must depend upon the Mental and Physical Abilities of its Inhabitants, including both its Peasantry and its Artificers. Indeed, the whole Tendency of my Arguments has been to shew, that in the Southern Counties, if the Effort were made, the Provision for the Poor might be rendered sufficient; but at the same Time I would qualify these Observations by saying, that when different Opinions are entertained upon the same Subject, and when Two People of powerful Minds attain to different Conclusions, I can see no Objection to permitting Colonization to be proposed to those who are voluntarily disposed to adopt it.

Are we hence justified in holding out Inducements and Premiums to Men to tear asunder all the Ties of Relationship and Home, by forsaking their native Country, where they possibly might be employed in cultivating those numerous extensive Wastes which are at our own Doors?

I have such an Abhorrence of exercising any Influence over the Human Mind on such Occasions, that in our Colonization we scrupulously abstained from any Interference of the kind. But with regard to Colonization, in the Parish of Thurgaton a settled Inhabitant voluntarily emigrated to Canada, whence he recently returned, and stated that he was well settled there, and wished for Money to take out his Family. Under those Circumstances the Parish advanced Money towards colonizing Two Families; against which I can discern no valid Objection; for I would treat the Poor as we do our own Children. If, on a full and fair Exposition of the whole Circumstance, they preferred a Foreign Country to their own Parish, I would impose no Interdiction upon them. Many of our Laws are I think oppressive towards the Poor; and I would deal with them as I would with the strenuous Advocate for Emigration, who is now going to a distant Country; I would leave the Determination entirely to their own Option.

The Witness is directed to withdraw.

Ordered, That this Committee be adjourned to Monday next, Twelve o'Clock.