House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 26 June 1647

DIE Saturni, 26 die Junii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Sallawey.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send an Answer to the Particulars sent Yesterday, by Messengers of their own.

Letters from the Commissioners with the King, and with the Army.

A Letter from the Lord Mountagu, was read.

(Here enter it.)

A Letter from the Earl of Nottingham, was read, with a Paper inclosed. (Here enter it.)

Private Business put off.

Ordered, That all Private Business shall be put off for Ten Days.

Corbet's Cause.

Ordered, That the Cause between Wm. Corbett and Ric'd shall be heard the 20th of July next; in the mean Time, the Proceedings upon the Decree in the Chancery to be stayed.

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Colonel Jepson; who brought up an Ordinance for paying Ten Thousand Pounds for the Affairs of Munster in Ireland, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence. (Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to this Ordinance for the Ten Thousands, now brought up.

Message from the H. C. with Ordinances.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Greene, &c.; who brought up Two Ordinances, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence:

1. An Order to pay to the Private Soldiers Six Thousand Pounds. (Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

1. An Order to pay One Thousand Two Hundred and Twenty-five Pounds, to the Dutch, Scotch, and Northern Officers. (Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Two Orders now brought up.

Demands of the Army to be considered.

It was moved, "That the Demands of the Army in their last Representation might be taken into Consideration." and this Question was proposed, "Whether to fall into the Consideration of these Demands of the Army, before they remove Forty Miles from London, according to the former Order of both Houses for their removing further?"

And the Question being put, "Whether this Question shall be now put?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Then this Question was put, "Whether to fall into the Consideration of these Demands of the Army, before they remove Forty Miles from London?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Message from the H. C. with an Order;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Samuell Browne, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in an Order, to give further Power to the Commissioners that are residing with the Army.

and to sit P. M.

2. To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons have ordered to sit at Five of the Clock this Afternoon; and desire their Lordships would please to sit likewise, if it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency.

Order to give further Power to the Commissioners with the Army.

The Order now brought up from the House of Commons, was read.

The Question being put, "Whether to have this Answer returned to the House of Commons, That their Lordships will give them an Answer by Messengers of their own?"

And it was Resolved in the Negative.

Then the House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure, to debate upon the aforesaid Order.

The House being resumed;

And the said Order was read again; and an Alteration was offered to be added, to (fn. 1) restrain the Commissioners to treat with the Army concerning those Things which concern them as Soldiers.

And the Question being put, "Whether to have this Alteration added to this Order sent from the House of Commons?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

The Question being put "Whether to agree to this Order, as it came from the House of Commons?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

(Here enter it.)

Order for the Commissioners with the Army to have further Power to treat with Sir T. Fairfax, &c.

" (fn. 2) Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Commissioners appointed to reside with the Army shall have Power to treat and debate with the General, and such of the Army as he shall appoint, in such Manner as they shall think best, upon the Papers and Desires sent from the Army to the Houses, and the Votes sent to them; and to send from Time to Time the Results of their Debates to the Houses, for their Consideration, that a speedy Conclusion may be thereupon had."

Protest against it.

Memorandum, That these Lords following, before the putting of this Question, desired Leave to enter their Dissents, if this Question were carried in the Affirmative: Which was granted; and did accordingly enter their Dissents, by subscribing their Names.

The Answer returned was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House agrees to the Order now brought up; and that this House will sit at Five of the Clock this Afternoon.

L. Wharton added to the Committee with the Army.

Ordered, That the Lord Wharton is added to be One of the Commissioners that are to go to the Army.

Message to the H. C. to acquaint them with it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To let them know, that this House hath nominated another Lord, (videlicet) the Lord Wharton, to be added to be a Commissioner in the Army.

Letter from from the Commissioners with the King, that He consents to stay at Royston;— that Col. Rossiter's Regiment is gone to join Sir T. Fairfax by his Orders;— and that Col. Whally continues to command the King's Guards.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore. These.

"My Lord,

"We received yours this Morning, at Six of the Clock; and have delivered the Letter from both Houses to the King accordingly. His Majesty, though much pressed to the contrary, was fully resolved upon His Journey to Richmond, and had given Order for His Dining at Ware, whither the Provision of His House was gone before: But He hath now pleased to let us know, that He will stay here this Day, and that we shall understand His farther Pleasure hereafter. Colonel Rosseter's Regiment is upon their March to the Army by the General's Orders; and Colonel Whalley commands the same Guards here which attended at Newmarkett. This is all I have to return to you at present; remaining,

Royston, 25 Junii, 1647

"My Lord,
Your most humble Servant,
Edw. Mountagu."

Letter from the Commissioners with the Army, that it is in its March to Uxbridge.

"For the Right Honourable Edward Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore.

"These, with Haste.

"May it please your Lordship,

"This Morning the General acquainted us, that the Army intended to be this Night at Uxbridge. We desired to know the Reason thereof, and endeavoured to prevent it. The General hath just now given us this Account inclosed, which I thought it my Duty immediately to transmit to your Lordship; and rest,

Barkebemsteed, 25th of June, 1647, at Three of the Clock.

"My Lord,
Your Lordship's
Very humble Servant,
C. Nottingham."

Letter from Sir T. Fairfax, &c. with the Reasons for it.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"In Answer to your Desire of a Reason of the Army's Motion this Day, we thought fit to let you know, That our Quarters are more contracted, but not nearer London, than before; (videlicet,) at Watford, Uxbridge, and the Towns about it, where we wait for an Answer to our just Demands presented to the Parliament. We have often said, we cannot stand as Lookers, to see the Kingdom ruined by the Obstruction and Denial of Justice; and therefore we desire you to move the Parliament, we may not be held still in Doubt, and upon the Disputes of their Commands, to which we shall yield ready Obedience when we see the Kingdom in a Possibility of Settlement; which we conceive cannot be, unless that the Fountain of Justice be delivered from those that corrupt it.

Barkhamstead, June 25, 1647.

"By the Appointment of his Excellency Sir Thomas Fairefax and his Council of War.

"Signed,

Vera Copia,
John Rushworth.
Ex'r per
George Pyke."

Order for 10,000 l. for Provisions for the Forces in Munster.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Ten Thousand Pounds, Part of Forty Thousand Pounds assigned out of Weavers Hall, for the Service of Ireland, be paid, by Alderman Bunce and the rest of the Treasurers there, unto Mr. Michall Herring; and that the said Ten Thousand Pounds be employed in Recruits, Provisions, and Money, for the Forces of Munster; and that this Ten Thousand Pounds be directed and issued by Order of the Committee for the Affairs of Ireland at Derby House; and that the Acquittance of the said Michall Herring shall be a sufficient Warrant and Discharge to the said Alderman Bunce and the rest of the Treasurers there, for the Payment of the said Ten Thousand Pounds accordingly."

Order for 1225 l. to the Northern, Dutch, and Scotch Officers, for a Month's Pay.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Sum of Twelve Hundred Five and Twenty Pounds be paid, by Alderman Bunce and the rest of the Treasurers at Weavers Hall, to Mr. John Pocock, Mr. William Greenhill, and the rest of the Treasurers for Payment of the Officers, to pay those of the Northern, Dutch and Scotts Officers, now in Town, a Month's Pay, that have not yet received it out of the Two Thousand Pounds formerly assigned; and that the Acquittance of the said Mr. Pocock, Mr. William Greenhill, and the rest of the Treasurers, or any Two of them, shall be a sufficient Warrant and Discharge to the said Alderman Bunce and the rest of the Treasurers at Weavers Hall, for the Payment of the said Twelve Hundred Five and Twenty Pounds accordingly."

Order for 6000 l, to Private Soldiers.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Alderman Bunce and the rest of the Treasurers at Weavers Hall do forthwith pay, unto Mr. Thomas Gower, and the rest of the Treasurers formerly appointed for the Payment of the Private Soldier, the Sum of Six Thousand Pounds, to be accounted Part of the Twenty Thousand Pounds formerly assigned for the Payment of the Private Soldier, charged upon the Credit of the Moiety of the Receipts at Gouldsmiths Hall not engaged for Security for the last Two Hundred Thousand Pounds; and that the said Six Thousand Pounds be reimbursed to the Treasure at Weavers Hall, out of the Receipts of the said Moiety, in Course; and that the said Six Thousand Pounds be added to the Ten Thousand Pounds formerly paid out of Weavers Hall for the Private Soldier; and that the whole Sixteen Thousand Pounds be paid out by the said Treasurers unto the Private Soldier, according to such Orders, Directions, and Limitations, as they have formerly received; and that the Acquittance of the said Mr. Thomas Gower and the rest of the Treasurers for Private Soldiers, or any Two of them, shall be a sufficient Warrant and Discharge unto the said Alderman Bunce and the rest of the Treasurers at Weavers Hall, for the Payment of the said Six Thousand Pounds accordingly."

Post Meridiem.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Message from the H. C. with an Order, and with the following

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Browne and others;

To desire Lords Concurrence:

1. An Order, That if any Forces be listed by the Militia, that they be discharged. (Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

2. A Letter to be sent to the Commissioners with the Army.

Agreed to.

Letter to the Commissioners with the Army, concerning the Enlargement of their Power to treat.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"The Houses have commanded us to acquaint you with their Resolution here inclosed, concerning the Enlargement of your Power to treat with Sir Thomas Fairefax and the Army. They doubt not of your Diligence and Faithfulness, in improving all your Power and Interest in bringing Things to a happy and speedy Issue between the Parliament and Army; which is the Desire of

"Your very affectionate Friends."

Letter from them.

A Letter was sent to the Earl of Manchester, from the Earl of Nottingham; informing, "That the Army was at Uxbridge." (Here enter it.)

Propositions for Peace.

The Propositions last sent from the House of Commons, were read.

Ordered, To be taken into Consideration on Thursday next; and all the Lords to have Notice, to be present.

Forces inlisted by the Committee of Safety to be discharged.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That if any Forces be listed by virtue of any Order of the Committee of Lords and Commons, and the Committee of the Militia, or of the Committee of the Safety, that they be, and are hereby, discharged."

Letter from the Commissioners with the Army, that the Army is come to Uxbridge; and with the Grievances which the Army desire an immediate Redress of, when they will remove further from London.

"For the Right Honourable Edward Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers. These.

"May it please your Lordship,

"We came hither last Night, where we found the General, with Three Regiments of Foot, and the Train of Artillery, and some Horse; Four Regiments of Foot more being quartered at Watford, and Three at Colebrooke, and most Part of the Horse behind, and on the Sides of the Foot; and that, by Order, the Soldiers came provided with Four Days Victual.

"This Morning Sir Thomas Widdrington and Mr. Povey came to us very early, and brought us the Votes of the House that passed Yesterday, concerning the Members charged by the Army. We, having some Intimations that the Army was to march this Morning, went instantly to the General, and communicated those Votes, and such other Proceedings of the Houses as came to our Knowledge in relation to the Army, the better to let them see the Inclinations of the House towards the Army's Satisfaction; and did desire that nothing might arise from them, that might either disturb the Houses in their Councils, or minister further Occasion of Jealousy, which, we told them, we very much feared, a Report (fn. 3) of which had lately come to us, of the Army's moving nearer London, would do; the Certainty whereof we desired to know, and what their Intentions were therein, and of their Removing. We then understood from the General and his Officers, that, at Twelve last Night, Orders were given, upon Consideration that the whole Body of Foot were so closely contracted, that the Quarters should be enlarged every Way, as well towards London as otherwise, for the mutual Ease of the Country and Soldiery. Against this Resolution we immediately declared our Objections; and very earnestly expostulated the Business with General and Officers, as that which, according to our Apprehensions, would minister Jealousy and Discontent to the Houses, and obstruct that Composure of Things which we found your Inclinations and Actions leading unto. To which the General and Officers replied (and prayed us so to represent their Proceedings in this Business), "That they might be necessitated to some Actions of this Nature, that might carry in the Face of them Occasion of Jealousy, whereas in Truth they are done for the Ease of the Country and Soldiers; and did desire that this Action might be so looked upon by the Parliament." But withal, in this Conference, we so far prevailed with the General and Officers, that, though the Quarter-masters were gone before, and some Regiments were on their March towards Harrow on the Hill and other Places thereabouts, the Orders were immediately countermanded, and new Quarters are assigned them; with this Declaration, that none of them are appointed to be nearer London than Fifteen Miles.

"In this Debate, we labouring to press them with your good Intentions for their Satisfaction, and to draw them to a Certainty that their Removal from hence may be at a farther Distance from London, they made us this Answer: "That there were some Things unresolved by the Houses contained in their late Remonstrance, that were of immediate and absolute Necessity to the Being of the Army; (videlicet,) The (1.) Article, concerning the re-calling the Declaration inviting Men to desert the Army. The (2.) for equal Pay for the Army with those that have deserted it. And the (5.) Article, for discharging and dispersing of such as have deserted this Army; in which if they may receive the Houses Pleasure speedily, they gave us Hope of a certain Answer touching the Motion of the Army at a farther Distance from London.

"These Things I thought fit to acquaint your Lordship with, finding the Army's Expectation to be very great upon the Resolutions of Parliament this Day to be taken.

"The General told us, that the King was unwilling to go back to Newmarkett, and that He would be this Night at Hatfeild. Thus I rest,

Uxbridge, 26 June,1647, 2 in the Afternoon.

"My Lord,
Your Lordship's
Humble and faithful Servant,
C. Nottingham."

Adjourn.

Adjourned till Monday, 10.