House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 11 November 1645

DIE Martis, 11 die Novembris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Carter.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Answer from the H. C.

Doctor Aylett and Doctor Heath return this Answer from the House of Commons to the Message from this House:

That they agree to make Captain Blagrave Major of the Foot Regiment: As to the rest of the Particulars, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

March. of Winchester, Leave to come to London, to her Husband.

Upon reading the Petition of Ja. Marquis of Winchester, Prisoner in The Tower of London; shewing, "That, by reason of his Imprisonment, he finds himself deprived of many Comforts he was wont to receive; and it being now Winter Season, and the Petitioner in Want of many Necessaries, and for the present somewhat infirm, he humbly beseecheth, that their Lordships would give Leave that his Wife may come up to the City of London, and have Access unto him, and to bring with her such Servants, and in such Sort, as their Lordships shall seem meet."

It is Ordered, That the Petitioner's Wife shall have a Pass to come to London, with her Servants and Necessaries.

Ordinance concerning those who come from the King's Quarters.

The House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure, to consider of the Ordinance concerning those Persons as come out of the King's Quarters.

The House being resumed;

These Lords following were appointed to make such Alterations as were according to the Sense of the House, and to report the same to this House:

Any Two, to meet To-morrow Morning, at Nine a Clock, in the Lord Keeper's Lodgings.

L. Wharton's Account of the Treaty with the Scots.

The Lord Wharton gave the House an Account of the Negotiation of Affairs, which he was sent into Scotland with a Committee of the House of Commons to treat about, from both Houses of Parliament.

Divers Letters and Papers were read, as follow. (Here enter them.)

Thanks of the House given him.

After this Report, the (fn. 1) House Ordered the Speaker to give the Lord Wharton Thanks, from the House, for his Pains in this Business; and accordingly it was done.

The Earl of Manchester reported from the Committee of both Kingdoms these Papers following:

"Die Lunæ, 10 Nov. 1645.

At the Committee of both Kingdoms, at Derby House.

Amendment to Prince Rupert's and others Pass, &c.

"Ordered, That it be reported to both Houses, as the Opinion of this Committee, That in the Pass for Prince Rupert and the rest, instead of these Words ["Parliament of England"], it be expressed, ["against both Houses of the Parliament of England"], or ["against the States of the Parliament of Scotland, or against any their Forces in any of the King's Dominions"]; and that the same Amendment may also be in the Order for Mr. Pickeringe, and the rest that are to see them transported.

"And that it be reported, That it may be signified to the Prince, that a Pass is granted for him; but a Convoy cannot be appointed, till he shall signify what Number of Persons are to go, and at what Port.

Russia Merchants Petition.

"That the Petition of the Russia Merchants, here presented, be reported to both Houses.

"Gualter Frost,

Secretary to the same Committee."

Ordered, That this House agrees to the Amendments in the Pass and Instructions.

The Petition was read, of the Russia Merchants; and the House approved of the same.

Message to the H. C. with it, and with the Amendment to Prince Rupert's Pass.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To deliver them the Report concerning the Alterations in the Instructions and Pass for Prince Rupert, &c. to go out of the Kingdom; and to desire their Concurrence in the Alterations.

2. To communicate the Petition of the Russia Merchants to them; and let them know, that this House approves that they should give such Entertainment to the Ambassador of the Emperor of Russia as is fit.

Paper from the Aldermen and Common Council of London, about Advance of Monies for Ireland, by the Committee at Grocers Hall.

Mr. Alderman Fowke, with other Aldermen and Common Council Men, presented a Request to this House, as was expressed in a Paper; which was read.

(Here enter it.)

It was also signified by Alderman Fowkes, "That there (fn. 2) are divers Papers, containing the Propositions concerning Ireland, and Reasons concerning the Afairs of Ireland, which they cannot now get Copies of, in regard they are delivered to the House of Commons; and, being long, they cannot get Copies so speedily."

The Answer returned was:

Answer to them.

That when this House shall be possessed of the rest of the Papers, they will put it into such a Way as may stand with Justice.

L. Cromwell bailed.

This Day the Lord Cromwell, with his Sureties, came in, and entered into Regonizance as followeth:

The Condition of the abovesaid Recognizance is, That the said Lord Cromwell shall appear before the Lords in Parliament upon Two Days Warning."

Papers delivered in by L. Wharton, that passed between the Englishand Scots Commissioners in Scotland, concerning the Treaty about the Garrisons on the Borders; to prevent the Scots Army levying Money; Protections; Accompts, &c.

(fn. 3) It was mistaken thus in the Original.

"My Lord and Gentlemen,

"Wee are all desireous to meete with your Lordships as you cann bee, and als sorie for the soe doeing of it; bee it wes not in our Power sooner to have a Meeting, as wee have from Tyme to Tyme represented to you, before God gave our Forces that happy Victory agaynes the Rebells at Philliphauche; since that Tyme, wee have beene necessitated to bee with the Army, both for raiseing the Country, and prosequitinge the Victory; and although the Stay of these that are by the Parliament appointed to treate with your Lordships to bee very necessary at this Tyme, yet wee have appointed them to bee with you at Barwicke (as you desire) on Monday the 6th of (fn. 3) this Moneth, at 2 a Clocke, which was the soonest that wee could possibly imagine they were able to bee there, soe many of them beinge soe farr distant; in the meane Tyme, wee have sent you a Coppy of the Commission the Parliament gave to these that are appointed to treate with you; the conclusive Power is in the Committee of Estates, who have the Power to give Instructions: Wee are confident the Quorum of both Committees wil bee neere Barwick about that Tyme. Wee rest

Pearth, 27 September, 1645.

"Your very affectionate Freinds and Servaunts,

"Crafurde Lyndesay.
Tullibardine.
Buchan.
Lauderdaill.
Dallhousie.
Findlater.
Cauper.
Ballcarris.
Craighhall.
Patrick Hepburne of Wauchtoune.
Geo. Wynname.
James Rae.
Archibald Fydesarfe.

"For the Right Honnorable the Commissioners of the Honnorable Houses of the Parliament of England, for the present, at Barwick.

"Vera Copia,

"William Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

"At Pearth, the 7th Day of August, the Yeare of God 1645 Yeares. The Estates of Parliament, now convened in the 4th Session of this First Trieniall Parliament, by vertue of the last Act of the last Parliament holden by His Majesty and 3 Estates, Anno 1641, considering that the Honnorable Houses of the Parliament of England have, by their Letters of the Date of Day of, declared, That they have made Choise of some Commissioners, and authorised them with Power to repaire into this Kingdome, and to treate on such Things as are intrusted to them, and concerning the Good and Interest of both Kingdomes; and finding it expedient for this Effect, that some Persons of each Estate bee imployed, to joyne with these our Commissioners, formerly nominated by the Estates of this Kingdome, for treating annent the Articles of Peace with the Kingdome of England; doe therefore nominate, make Choise of, add, and conjoyne to their foresaid former Commissioners for the Treaty, the Persons under written, videlicet, Jo. Earle of Crawford, Wm. Earle Manssall, William Earle Lanerick, Sir John Hamilton of Orbeston, Justice Clarke, Sir William Cockrayne of, Mr. Robert Meldrum of Bruchby, Mr. Alexander Wetherburne Commissioner for the Towne of Dundee, John Kennedy Commissioner for the Towne of Aire, and William Glendoninge Commissioner for the Towne of Kurkudbright, or any Five of them, there being One of each Estate, to meete with the said Commissioners from England, at or any other Place the Committee of Estates shall thinke fitting; and to heare them, receave any Propositions shall bee given in to them, and to give in Propositions to them; and to treate and debate thereupon, accordinge to the Instructions given or to bee given them by the Parliament or Committee of Estates.

"Sic subscribitur,

"Alex. Gibsone, Cler. Reg'.

"Vera Copia,

"Ja. Primrose.

"Ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

(fn. 4) Paper from 4 Scotts Lords and Mr. Meldrum, about going to St. Andrewes.

"Wee are commaunded, by the Committee of Estates, to shew unto your Lordships and these Noble Gentlemen, that the Condition of Effaires in our Kingdome hes beene such, as wee could not, according to the Intention of the Parliament and Committee, meit with you before this Tyme, being diverted by our necessary Attendance upon the Armyes; and that wee are now ready to receive from you such Propositions as you have in Charge to offer, in Behalfe of the Parliament of England, unto the Parliament of Scotland, or their Committee. Wee are further commaunded to acquaint your Lordships and these Noble Gentlemen, that Tuesday the 14th Instant is appointed for a Meeting at St. Andrewes, of a Quorum of both Committees resident in Scotland and with the Army, to consider upon, and retourne Answeres unto, those Propositions; the Conditionof the Country, and the Employments of many Members of the Committee in the Army, makeing it very inconvenient for us to meitt at any Place further South, or sooner: And therefore wee doe offer unto your Consideration, whether it may better consist with your Affaires to goe unto St. Andrewes, where wee may more conveniently treate, or to stay at Barwick till wee shall retourne you Answere from the Committee.

Barwick, 6th October, 1645.

"Signed, at the Command of the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland,

"Ja. Primrose.

"Vera Copia,

"Wm. Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

(fn. 4) Letter to the 4 Scotts Lords and Mr. Robert Meldrum, in Answer to their Paper of the 6th, about going to St. Andrewes.

"4. Right Honnorable,

"We were sent from the Parliament of England, to treat with the Parliament of Scotland, or any who should derive Authority from them, upon such Matters as concerned the Good of both Kingdoms. We arrived at Barwick the 16th of August, and there stayed according to the Desires of a Letter sent unto us from the Parliament of Scotland; and have used all Means to have a Meeting, and from Time to Time have had several Promises and Engagements that it should be speedy. After above Thirty Days Expectation, we writ unto your Lordships and others, by ours of the 18th of September, that we did intend to take our Journey Southward, if we had not a speedy Meeting with those appointed to treat with us: To which having no Answer of any particular Time, we accordingly went to Newcastle and the Counties adjacent, and dispatched an Express to you (before our going hence), that the Time might be ascertained, and we should not fail to return, and meet at the Day and Hour that should be assigned; which (by Letters from the Committee of Estates, of the 27th September) was appointed to be here, on Monday the 6th Instant, at Two of the Clock in the Afternoon. Accordingly we returned hither (some of us above Eighty Miles); but yet, contrary to our Expectation, found no Committee to treat withall; and, instead thereof, a Paper was tendered unto us by your Lordships, who both now and upon a former Meeting acknowledged yourselves to be no Committee.

"To the Paper itself, which importeth that you could not meet with us before this Time, and that you were ready to receive from us such Propositions as we have in Charge to offer, in Behalf of the Parliament of England, unto the Parliament of Scotland, or their Committee, we are to let your Lordships know, that we cannot hold this to be such a Meeting as was promised, in regard you are not a Committee: And whereas it further imports an Offer to our Consideration, whether we would go to St. Andrewes (where we might more conveniently treat) or stay at Barwick till you should return us Answer from the Committee, we think fit to signify thus much to your Lordships, that there can be no Return of any Answer from the Committee, because, upon the Ground aforesaid, we cannot deliver in any Papers or Propositions to your Lordships; and therefore nothing is left to our Choice, but to go to St. Andrewes, to the Meeting of the 14th of this Month.

"My Lords,

"Thus the Business (as we conceive) now stands; and hereby we are necessitated to a longer unexpected Delay, without having made any Entrance at all into the Affairs we have in Command: Yet, that it may appear nothing shall be wanting on our Parts to continue and preserve a good Understanding betwixt the Kingdoms, and promote the Good and Service of them both, we are resolved to go to St. Andrewes, and (God willing) shall not fail to be at the said Meeting, if we may receive an Assurance from your Lordships that we shall have a speedy Dispatch and Conclusion of the Treaty, with a full Quorum of Committees, who shall have ample Power to treat and conclude with us.

Barwick, 7th of October, 1645.

"Your Lordships affectionate Friends and Servants,

"P. Wharton.
H. Vane.
Wm. Armyne.
Tho. Hatcher.
Rob't Goodwin.

"For the Right Honourable the Lord Marquis of Angile, the Earl of Crauford Lyndesay, the Earl of Lauderdaile, Earl of Lanerick, and Mr. Rob't Meldrum. These.

"Vera Copia,

"Wm. Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

(fn. 5) Answer from 3 of the Scotts Lords, to the Commissioners Letter of the 7th, about going to St. Andrewes.

"5. Right Honnorable,

"As soone as the Parliament of Scotland heard of the Resolution of the Honnorable Houses to send Commissioners to Scotland, they authorized a Committee to treate with them, and desired they might stay at Barwick till a Place of Meetinge were appointed, in regard the Sicknes wes soe violent at and aboute Edinburgh. After the Parliament wes adjourned, the Committee of Estates, heareing that you were com'd away from London, did send One of their Number to have waited on you to St. Andrewes, which wes the Place they then appointed for the Treaty. Bot it pleased God soe to dispose of our Effaires in Scotland, that that Place wes not convenient then to meete at. Wee indeavored afterward to have a Meeting heir, and cam hither ourselves for that Purpose; bot wee could neither gett our Commission (our Clerke beinge then in the Rebells Power, who had the Trust of all our Papers), neither could wee possibly gett a Quorum, as yourselves were Wittnesses: Wee did indeed often promise to meete as soone as wee could; bot could never fix upon a Day, because of our necessary Attendance upon the Army, untill both the Ressett of your Letter at (fn. 5) Perth, the 27th of September, the Committee appointed this Place, and commaunded all that were of this Commission to waite on you the 6th of this Moneth; whereupon, although it was inconvenient that wee should come soe farr from the Army, some of us came above One Hundred, all of us above 60 Miles, to keepe this Meeting; bot when wee found ourselves, contrary to our Expectation, not like to bee a full Quorum, by Warrant of the Committee of Estates, wee gave in our Paper of the 6th, and left it to your Consideration, and whether you would give in your Propositions; which wee conceived wee had Authority enough to have ressaved, and carryed to those who have undoubtedly Power to authorize us to give what Answer they should thinke most conduceable to the Good of both Kingdomes, or whether you would goe to St. Andrewes yourselves. This wee thought fitt to offer unto your Lordships, in Answere to your Letter of the 7th Instant; by which, wee are confident, it will appeare, there hath bin noe Tyme lost, nor Occasion ommitted, by the Kingdome of Scotland, for entring upon those Effaires you are entrusted with; and that now, by your goeinge to St. Andrewes, all those Impediments wil bee removed, which hindred a Meetinge soe much desired by your Lordships, and by,

"My Lord and Gentlemen,

Barwick, 8th October, 1645.

Your affectionate Friends and Servaunts,

"W. Argill.
Lauderdaile.
Lanerick.

"For the Right Honnorable the Lord Wharton, and the rest of the Commissioners of the Parliament of England.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Wm. Rowe, Secr. Com."

** First Paper delivered in to the Scotts Committee at St. Andrewes.

6. Whereas the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England have authorized us to make our Addresses to the Parliament of Scotland, or the Committee of Estates of Scotland, or any deputed by them to treat with us, upon such Matters as may send to the Good and Peace of both Kingdoms; in Pursuance of their Commands, we are to let your Lordships know their good Acceptance of that Botherly Assistance which they so timously received from the Kingdom of Scotland; and do, in their Names, return Thanks for the same; and we are further to express their earnest Desire, that a good and mutual Correspondency betwixt the Two Kingdoms, united in this great Cause by solemn League and Covenant, may be by all good Endeavours continued, and inviolably preserved; and, for that Purpose, we are commanded to endeavour the best Satisfaction we can in all Things that (fn. 6) may seem to give any Occasion of Difference, and to desire the like from your Lordships: And we are further to acquaint your Lordships with the great Streights the Kingdom of England is in, for Want of Money; and that, if there hath been any Failing of Payments which should have been made from the Parliament of England in Pursuance of the Treaty, it hath not proceeded from any Want of Affection, or real Intention to make good their Engagements.

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

"Vera Copia,

"Will'm, Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

** 2 Paper delivered in to the Scotts Commissioners at St. Andrewes.

7. St. Andrewes, 14th of October, 1645.

"We, the Commissioners from the Parliament of England, have in Charge from both Houses, to demand of your Lordships and the rest of this Honourable Committee, that, in Pursuance of the large Treaty of both Kingdoms, the Works about Carlile be slighted, and the Place dismantled: and that the Scottish Garrison, put in there without the Consent of the Parliament of England, be forthwith removed.

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

** 3 Paper to the Scotts Commissioners at St. Andrewes, about Newcastle, and the other Garrisons.

"8. St. Andrewes, the 14th of October, 1645.

"We, the Commissioners of the Parliament of England, have in Charge to demand of this Honourable Committee, that the several Garrisons in Warkworth Castle, Tynmouth Castle, Newcastle upon Tyne, Hartlepoole, Stockton Castle, and Thirlewall Castle, being placed there without the Consent of both Houses of the Parliament of England, or their Committees, may be speedily removed.

"William Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

** 4th Paper, about Protections.

9. "St. Andrewes, 14th October, 1645.

"We, the Commissioners of the Parliament of England, have in Command from both Houses, to let your Lordships know, that all Protections already given to the Persons, Goods, or Estates, of any Delinquents, without the Consent of the Parliament of England, or their Commissioners, are to be limited to their just Intentions, which is only for restraining of the Soldiers from all Acts of Violence against the Persons so protected, and not extend to the Prejudice of any Ordinance of Parliament, or Order of both or either of the Houses of Parliament; and that no Protections are to be granted, or Capitulations made, without the Consent of the Parliament of England, or their Committees; and if any Protections have or shall be granted or made otherwise, that they shall be held void and null.

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

** 5th Paper, about Accompts.

"10. St. Andrewes, 14th of October, 1645.

"We, the Commissioners from the Parliament of England, are to acquaint this Honourable Committee, That Commissions are granted, under the Great Seal of England, for the taking upon Oath and adjusting the Accompts of Yorkesheire, of the City and County of the City of Yorke, Northumberland, the Borough of Barwick upon Tweede, Cumberland, Westmerland, the County of Duresme, and County of Newcastle upon Tyne, between the Scotts Army and the said several Counties, arising either by Assessments, Free Quarter, Billeting, or any other Way; and we are hereupon required to offer to this Honourable Committee, that they may send Commissioners of their own (if they please), to be present at the adjusting of the said Accompts in the several Counties and Places abovementioned.

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

** A Paper from the Scotts Commissioners (delivered in before they gave their Answers to the 5 Papers), to know whether the English Commissioners had any more to propound;

"11. St. Andrewes, 16th of October, 1645.

"Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, are warranted by the Committee of Estates, to desire your Lordships and these Gentlemen to make knowne unto us, whether you have any more at this Tyme to propone unto them from the Parliament of England, because the urgent Occasions of this Kingdome doe necessarily require the Committees Removeall from this Place to Glasgow To-morrow.

"Ja. Primrose."

"St. Andrewes, 16th October, 1645.

"We, the Commissioners of the Parliament of England, did, on Tuesday, 14th of this Instant, deliver in Five Papers to your Lordships, agreeable to the Treaties made betwixt the Two Kingdoms; and did this Day (upon Notice from your Lordships) expect an Answer in Writing thereunto; but have received a Paper of the 16th, in which you desire to know whether we have any more at this Time to propound from the Parliament of England, which we conceive a Course unusual in Treaties; notwithstanding, we have given your Lordships another Paper, unto which and the former we desire your Lordships speedy Answer.

"Wm. Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Wm. Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

** 6th Paper given in to the Scotts Committee.

"12. St. Andrewes, 16th of October, 1645.

"We, the Commissioners of the Parliament of England, have further in Command from both Houses, to desire your Lordships special Care, that, for the better Prevention of all Occasions of Complaint and Misunderstanding that may arise betwixt the Two Nations, all the Articles of the several Treaties between the Two Kingdoms may be duly kept, and inviolably observed; and, in Pursuance thereof, that the other Garrisons in Cumberland, not mentioned in our former Papers, may be speedily removed; and that your Lordships will take (fn. 7) an effectual Course, that all Assessments and Levying of Monies, either by Officers or Soldiers, or any other Persons by their Authority and Command, may be hereafter forborn; and that all Oppressions, Wrongs, and Injuries, heretofore offered contrary to the Articles of the Treaty, may be duly examined, and such Remedy applied as to Justice shall appertain; and that, for the future, your Lordships will make such Declaration, and take such Order, that, according to the Treaty, no such Injuries may be committed or done.

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"William Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

** Answer from the Scotts Committee to the First Paper delivered by the English Commissioners.

"13. St. Andrewes, 16 October, 1645.

"Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, authorised to treate with the Commissioners of the Parliament of England upon such Matters as may tend to the Good and Peace of both Kingdomes, are warranted by the Committee of Estates, to retorne unto your Lordship and these Gentlemen this followinge Answere to your First Paper of the 14th Instant, delivered unto us: That the Committee of Estates of the Kingdome of Scotland are exceeding sensible of the good Acceptance the Honnorable Houses of the Parliament of England have exprest by your Lordships, of the tymely Assistance they received from this Kingdome; and that all Meanes will bee used on their Parts, that a good and mutuall Correspondency betweene the Two Kingdomes, united in this greate Cause by Solemne League and Covennant, may bee continued, and inviolably preserved; and that they shall most readily contribute their best Endeavors for the Removall of any seemeing Difference, that may occasion any Mistakes betwixt the Kingdomes. Wee are further commaunded to shew your Lordships, that they are exceedinge sensible of the Straights the Kingdome of England is in, for Want of Moneyes; and beleeve their Faylings of Payments, and other Perticulers due by the Treaty to this Kingdome, hath not proceeded from any Want of Affection, or reall Intention to make good their Engagments; albeit the Scotts Army now in England hath beene, and now is, reduced to exceedinge Extreamityes, and disabled to doe such Service as might otherwise beene expected.

"Ja. Primrose.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Com."

** Answer to the 2d Paper delivered by the English Commissioners.

"14. St. Andrewes, 16th of October, 1645.

"Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, are warranted by the Committee of Estates, to retourne this following Answere to your 2d Paper of the Fowerteenth Instant, delivered unto us:

"That they are most desireous all the Articles of the large Treaty bee faithfully observed; and doe offer unto your Lordships Consideration, if the same Reason which moved the Parliament of England to allowe a Forbeareance in the Execution of that Article concerning Barwick, and to give it in Trust to their Brethren of Scotland, may not bee of als greate Force for continueing of Carlile in the same Condition it is now in; and the rather, considering that it is knowne to all who were upon the Treaty concerning our March into England, that the only Reason why it was not put in the same Condition with Barwick wes, because it wes not then in the Power of the Parliament of England, who, they are confident, upon Consideration of the necessary Use of it for the Safety of the Kingdome of Scotland, would have beene as willing to have condescended unto it as unto that of Barwick; and now, that Place beinge brought under their Obedience, it seemes much more reasonable that the Garrison be continued in it, without slighting the Works, or dismantling the Place, till it shall please God that the Affaires of both Kingdomes bee in a better Posture, in regard that the Kingdome of Scotland hath beene invaded from that Place, and by the ill-affected Persons aboute it on both Sides of the Border, who doe still expect the Landing of Irish Forces neere unto it, and the comeing of the Forces that are with His Majesty to joyne with them, for infestinge of this Kingdome, accordinge to Intelligence both your Lordships and wee have received; and that the Committee of Estates are the more incouraged to beleeve that these Reasons will weigh much with the Honnorable Houses of Parliament and your Lordships, that the Kingdome of Scotland have given soe many reall Proofes of their Affection and Faithfullnes to their Brethren of England, and are most willing, as they have ever professed, that, theise Difficultyes being taken away, and the Troubles ended, the Garrisons shal bee removed, the Works slighted, and the Place dismantled, according to your Lordships Desire.

"Ja. Primrose.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

** Answer to the 3d Paper.

"15. St. Andrewes, 16th of October, 1645.

Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, are warranted by the Committee of Estates, to retourne unto your Lordship and these Gentlemen this Answere to your Thrid Paper of the 14th Instant:

"That when, upon the Invitation of the Parliament of England, a Treaty wes made, and an Army raised in this Kingdome, for the Assistance of their Brethren, in Pursuance of the Ends exprest in the Solemne League and Covenant and the Treaty, no Toun or Castle in the North of England wes in the Power of the Parliament, except Barwick, and soe none could bee then demaunded, either for Retreate or Magazin to the Scottish Army; but if these now mentioned had bin then in their Power, they would undoubtedly have bin asked and graunted, upon the same Grounds and Reasons that Barwick was in England, and Carrickfergus and Colerayne to the Army of Ireland: That the Necessity of such Places did appeare, upon the Advance of the Scottis Army, who for these Ends were forced to fortify and garrison Blythsnuke and Sunderland, which wes not opposed then either by the Parliament of England or their Committee: Afterward, by the Blessing of God upon the Scottish Army brought into England by the Earle of Leven, the Army under the Earle of Newcastle being driven out of the Northerne Countyes into the Citty of Yorke, the Toun of Hartlepoole and Castle of Stocktoun were taken by the Earle of Calender, and garrison'd for these same Ends. Then, after the Overthrowe given by the joynt Endeavors of the Armyes of both Kingdomes to Prince Rupert and the Earle of Newcastle at Longmarstoun, the Scottish Army wes, by the Commissioners of the Parliament of England (who, by their Instructions of the First of November, 1643, comunicate to the Convention of Estates the Tyme of the Treaty, have Power to advise, debate, and conclude, with the joynt Advise of their Brethren of Scotland, to put in Execution all Matters and Things concerning the Wel-ordering, Direction, Disposall, and Accomodation, of the Forces brought for Assistance of the Kingdome of England), pressed to march backe, and beseidge Newcastle, which, after a large Debate, by an Order of the Committee of both Kingdomes residing with them, they did; and haveing endured much Hardshipp, and Losse of many Men, it pleased God to make them Instruments for reduceing it by Assault to the Obedience of the Parliament of England; and within a few Dayes the Castle of Tynmouth was also rendred. Not long after they were taken, a Commission was drawne upp by the Committee of Estates resident with the Scottish Army, appointed Sir James Lumsden Governor, which, with some Marginall Notes upon it made by the Commissioners of the Parliament of England, was sent upp to London; and the Consideration of that Busines referred to the Committee of both Houses of the Committee of both Kingdomes, where, after many Debates with the Commissioners of this Kingdome at London, a Comissioners was resolved on to him, as Governor, for a Twelve-moneth; which afterward, upon some Difference concerning the Forme of it, wes layd aside, as wee were informed, but nothing then proposed for removeinge the Garrison of Newcastle; for it wes and is soe well knowne, that that is the fittest Place for sending Recruits to the Scotts Army, for Magazin, and for a Retreate in Case of Necessity, it being soe considerable a Passe into Scotland, that without it that Army cannott bee in Safety; and therefore the Committee of Estates is confident, when the Grounds and Proceedings of the Scottish Army in garrisoninge all these Places shal bee considered, and their Scituation in regard of the Provision and Accomodation of that Army and the Defence of the Kingdome of Scotland against the Attempts of the ill affected Persons, who are too many aboute these Places on both Sides of the Border, the Removall of these Garrisons untill both Kingdomes bee in a better Posture, or our Troubles ended by an happy Peace, will neither bee pressed by this Honnorable Committee, nor by the Parliament of England, which might bee interpreted (though wee are confident it is not intended) as a Diffidence of their Brethren of Scotland, who, by their Indeavors and Sufferings (only for their Ingagment with the Kingdome of England), have given soe large and undeniable Testimonyes of their Brotherly Love and Faithfullnes, and who are willing to hazard all that is deere unto them in this Cause, with the same Affection and Zeale.

"Ja. Primrose."

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

* *Answer to the 4th Paper.

"16. St. Andrewes, 16th October, 1645.

"Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, are warranted by the Committee of Estates, to retourne this Answere to your Fowerth Paper of the 14th Instant, delivered unto us:

"That they agree, that all Protections given by the Officers of the Scottis Army are to bee understood only for restrayning of the Souldiers from Acts of Violence against the Persons soe protected; and that noe Protections are to bee graunted, or Capitulations made, to the Prejudice of any Ordinance of Parliament; and if any Protections have bin graunted heretofore without this Caution, they desire your Lordships to condescend upon the Perticulers, that they with you may make an exact Search and Tryall, if they have not, or may not, beare a just Exception.

"Ja. Primrose.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"William Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

* * Answer to the 5th Paper.

"17. St. Andrewes, 16 October, 1645.

"Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, are warranted, by the Committee of Estates, to retourne this Answere to your Fifth Paper, of the 14th Instant, delivered unto us:

"That they were soe desireous the Accompts bee fitted and adjusted, that, to that Effect, the Committee and Generall Officers at the Scotts Army in England sent the Earle of Lothian and Sir Adam Hepburne of Humbie to the Committee at Yorke, to knowe whether the Accompts were taken in from the severall Quarters; who retourned them Answere, they had Commission and Orders for it from the Parliament of England; but that, by reason of the Sicknes in many Places, and other Hindrances, nothing was done.

"And wee are further warranted to shew you, that, upon this Proposition, the Committee of Estates will appoint some, to joyne with any in Commission from the Parliament of England for that Purpose, that these Accompts may bee soe ordered and allowed, as was formerly done when our Army was in England, in the Yeare 1640; and wee are to desire your Lordships to condiscend upon the Tyme and Place appointed for the Meeting of these Commissioners concerning that Busines, that the Committee of Estates may appoint their Commissioners to attend accordingly.

"Ja. Primrose."

* * Answer to the 6th Paper delivered by the English Commissioners.

"18. St. Andrewes, 17th October, 1645.

"Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, are warranted to retourne this Answere to your Paper of the 16th Instant:

"That the Committee of Estates are most desireous, that all the Articles of the severall Treatyes betwixt the Kingdomes be inviolably and punctually observed.

"That, when they knowe what those other Garrisons in Cumberland are, they shall give such an Answere as in Reason can bee expected: They doe acknowledge, that noe Assessments (fn. 8) ought to bee layd, or Moneyes leavyed, either by Officers or Souldiers, or any other Persons by their Authority; and, that Necessity doe not compell the Army for their Maintenance, for Want of due and tymeous Payment, to any such Course, they doe desire that, according to the Treaty, their Moneyes may bee duly paid to them; and if any Oppressions, Wronges, or Injuryes, have beene heretofore offered, they are most willing, according to the Treaty, they bee duly examined, and such Remedyes applyed as to Justice shall appertayne.

"Ja. Primrose.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

* *Reply to the several Answers given in by the Scotts Commissioners to the Five Papers.

"19. St. Andrewes, 17th October, 1645.

We, the Commissioners of the Parliament of England, have considered of your Lordships Answers to our several Papers.

"And as unto that given in Answer to our First, we make no Doubt but that your Lordships Expressions, concerning your Endeavours to procure a good and mutual Correspondency betwixt the Kingdoms, will be very acceptable unto the Houses of Parliament of England, as that which they do much desire; and we do assure your Lordships, that wherein it shall appear to the Houses that there hath been any Failure of Payments, or of other Particulars due by the Treaty, they will be careful to make good the same, according to their utmost Power.

"And as to your Lordships Answer to our Second and Third Papers, concerning Carlile, Newcastle, and the other Garrisons, we are of Opinion, that the Reasons therein expressed, for continuing your Garrisons in those Places, are no Way answerable to the Treatyes, nor will be satisfactory to the Parliament of England; and do therefore desire that your Lordships will seriously consider, to return such an Answer as may give Satisfaction to the just Demands of the Parliament; or that we may know whether those Papers we have received do contain (as to those Garrisons) that Answer which you will insist upon, and would have us represent unto the Parliament.

"As to your Lordships Answer unto our Fourth Paper, we observe, that you do agree that Protections are to be understood only for restraining Acts of Violence against the Persons protected; and that no Protections are to be granted, nor Capitulations made, to the Prejudice of any Ordinance of Parliament; whereas our Demands are, that no Protection be granted, which may extend to the Prejudice, not only of any Ordinance of Parliament, but of any Order of either House; and that no Protections nor Capitulations be made, without the Consent of the Parliament of England, or their Committees, in these Differences; we desire further Satisfaction as also to know what is meant by the Words in the Close of your Paper, videlicet, ["for they have not, or may not, bear a just Exception"].

"As to your Lordships Answer unto our Fifth Paper, we do agree, that speedy and convenient Times be condescended upon, for your Commissioners to be present at the adjusting of the Accompts in the several Counties; and do desire to receive from your Lordships the Names of such as you shall think fit to employ in that Service, and accordingly we shall give Notice thereof unto the English Commissioners.

"Will'm Rowe Secr. Commiss.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

* * Paper from the Scotts Commissioners, to know whether the English Commissioners had Power about settling the Garrisons, &c.

"20. St. Andrewes, 17th October, 1645.

"Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, have considered your Paper of the 17th Instant; and are warranted to desire to knowe from your Lordships, whether you have Power from the Parliament of England to setle those Garrisons and Governors, which, upon Debate, shal bee found by good Reason to bee necessary for the Safety and Accomodation of the Scottish Army, soe long as they are employed in England for this Cause, and the Good of both Kingdomes.

"Ja. Primrose.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

* * Answer to the Scotts Commissioners Paper, about knowing whether the English Commissioners had Power to settle the Garrisons, &c.

"21. St. Andrewes, 17 of October, 1645.

"We, the Commissioners of the Parliament of England, in Return of your Lordships last Paper of the 17th Instant, do make this Answer: That we're commanded by the Parliament of England to demand the Withdrawing of the Scottish Garrisons, according to the Papers delivered in for that Purpose (wherein the Parliament demandeth nothing but conform to Right and Justice); and when your Lordships shall give us a satisfactory Answer unto the said Demands, we are most confident, and shall undertake, that those Towns and Places shall have such Garrisons and Governors, and shall be so disposed of, as shall be for the Safety and Accomodation of the Scottish Army, so long as they are employed in England for this Cause, and the Good of both Kingdoms.

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss.

"Vera Copia, ex'r,

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

"22. St. Andrewes, 17th October, 1645.

* * Answer from the Scotts Commissioners unto the English Commissioners Reply of the 17th.

"Wee, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, are warranted by the Committee of Estates to retourne this Answere to your First Paper of the 17th Instant.

"That, as they shal bee ready, upon all Occasions, to make good those Expressions, which your Lordships are confident will bee soe acceptable to the Parliament of England, soe they doe not doubt but the Parliament, accordinge to your Assurance, will make good all that is due by them to this Kingdome.

"As to that Article concerning Protections, the Committee doth agree that noe Protections bee heareafter graunted, that may extend to the Prejudice of any Order of either House of Parliament; and that noe Capitulation bee made, but according to the Treaty. The Meaning of these Words in the Close of our Paper is, that, the Particulers being condiscended on of the Protections already given, the Committee may with you make an exact Tryall, if they may not beare a just and reasonable Exception from this Rule now agreed upon.

"As to the last, wee desire to knowe if by these Words ["for your Commissioners to bee present at the adjustinge of the Accompts"] your Lordships doe not meane, that the same Power shal be graunted to our Commissioners, and the same Course taken in the fitting of these Accompts, as in Anno 1640; and then you shall resseave the Names of those the Committee does employ.

"Wee are further warranted to shew your Lordship the earnest Desire the Committee hesh to sattisfy your Lordship in all your Demaunds, soe farre as can either agree with Reason, or the Safety of the Scottish Army now in England, employed for the Ends exprest in the Covenant and Treaty; and, for that Effect, wee presented the Paper the 17th Instant, that wee might knowe if your Lordships were fully instructed for settling such Garrisons to the Scotts Army as in Reason cannott bee denyed to bee necessary for their Subsistence and Safety in England, for the Good of both Kingdomes; but, finding your Lordships Answere noe Wayes sattisfactory, wee offer it to your Consideration, if it bee fitt to remitt that Demaund, with out Answere, to the Parliament of England, and our Commissioners at London; and wee are confident, the Honnorable Houses, both from the Weight of our Reasons, and their Brotherly Sence of our ready and tymeous Assistance, will not suffer the Scotts Army to want any Accomodation for their Safety and Security, that can justly bee demaunded, least the Enemyes of both Kingdomes take this Oppertunity to weaken the Confidence betwixt the Kingdomes, by their alleadginge this Demaund at such a Tyme for an Argument of Jealousye; or, if your Lordships will propose any other Way for a more speedy and more effectuall Conclusion therein, wee shall most heartily concurre.

"Ja. Primrose.

"Vera Copia,

"William Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

* * The Conclusive Papers of the Treaty.

"23. St. Andrewes, 18th October, 1645.

"We, the Commissioners of the Parliament of England, in Answer to your Lordships last Paper of the 17th Instant, think fit to let your Lordships know, that,

"To that Part concerning the Observation of the Treaties, we refer ourselves to our former Paper; and expect the like to be performed on the Behalf of the Kingdom of Scotland, the Obligation being mutual.

"As to that Article concerning Protections, we rest satisfied with your Answer as to the future; and are confident, there cannot be found, upon Examination, any just and reasonable Exceptions from the Rule now agreed upon.

"For the Matter of Accompts, the (fn. 9) Commissions are already granted under the Great Seal of England; but we cannot say whether they be agreeable or no to those (fn. 9) Commissions of 1640, because we have not seen them.

"Concerning the Garrisons, we are confident, what we have demanded on Behalf of the Parliament in our former Papers are agreeable to the Treaties, and no Ways prejudicial to the Safety of the Scottish Army now in England, wherein we cannot imagine in what Terms we could have offered better Satisfaction unto your Lordships, than by that Engagement which we made in our last Paper of the 17th Instant: Neither can we conceive that the making of those Demands by the Parliament at this Time can be made Use of to weaken the Confidence betwixt the Two Nations, by making it an Argument of Jealousy; but, on the other Part, we are fully perswaded that the speedy condescending upon their Desires would be the most effectual Way to continue a perfect and true Understanding betwixt the Two Kingdoms; but, if we cannot herein prevail with your Lordships, there will remain nothing more for us, but to represent your Papers unto both Houses, which we shall do with all Faithfulness.

"Will'm Rowe, Secr. Commiss."

Paper from the Alderman and Common Council, about Advance of Money for Ireland, by the Committee at Grocers Hall.

"Commune Concil. tent. in Camera Gui'hall, Civitat. London, Vicesimo-septimo Die Octobris, 1645.

"This Day Mr. Alderman Fowke, and other the Committees appointed by Order of this Court of the 16th of October last, made Report, That they have had Consultation several Times with the Committee at Grocers Hall, appointed for Irish Affairs, concerning Advance of Monies, desired by an Order of the House of Commons of the 11th of October last, which are designed by the Committee of Lords and Commons, out of the Weekly Assessment for Ireland, for the raising of Horse and Foot for the Province of Munster, and the Dispatch of the Commissioners, with some competent Maintenance for the Army in those Parts: And this Court taking into Consideration, that the said Committee at Grocers Hall presented divers Reasons in Writing, of their Refusal to lend the Money desired, together with Copies of the Heads of their Propositions, and of their Petition, and made it their humble Suit that this Court will be pleased, if they shall so think fit, to interpose their Mediation to the Honourable Houses of Parliament, that the same may be considered of accordingly; which containing Matters of great Importance concerning some Miscarriages alledged to be in managing the Irish Affairs, and Remedies to prevent the like hereafter; and conceiving the said Committees Desires to be just and reasonable; have thereupon thought fit, and Ordered the same accordingly.

"That the said Committee do make it the Request of this Court to both the Honourable Houses of Parliament, to take the same into their serious Consideration, and to cause the Particulars therein to be examined; and thereupon to give such further Direction as may encourage the said Committee and Adventurers, and conduce to the reducing of Ireland, and the Preservation of this Kingdom of England.

"Michel."

Russia Merchants Petition, that the Russian Minister who is coming may have a proper Reception, and a House allotted for him.

"To the Right Honourable the Committee of both Kingdoms.

"The humble Petition of the Governor and Company of Rushia Merchants;

"Sheweth,

"That the late Emperor of Russia, Michael Phedoroww'ch, departed this Lifethe 12th of July last, by whose Grace and Favour this Company enjoyed many and great Privileges above all other Nations; that His Son, Elexea Michael Lowich, succeeding in the Imperial Thorne, hath been graciously pleased to declare to the English Consul and Factors residing in His Dominions, His Royal Intentions of continuing the ancient Amity and good Correspondence which hath been between the Two Crowns, and confirming those gracious Privileges, with Enlargement thereof as shall be Occasion; and further (as your Petitioners have Advice by Letters) did resolve to send over hither a Gentleman of His Court; but whether in the Quality of an Ambassador or Messenger, or addressed to the King, Parliament, or both, the Petitioners know not till his Arrival, which is daily expected, upon their Ships returning thence.

"Now, for that the Reception and Entertainment of this Person (however qualified) may be of great Concernment in giving Content and Satisfaction to His Imperial Majesty, and a further Inducement to His gracious Inclinations of continuing and augmenting those Royal Privileges to this Nation; whereas, on the contrary, (fn. 10) if he should apprehend any Disrespect, by not being received as other Persons who have formerly come in the same Nature, and make Report thereof to the Emperor his Master at his Return Home, the same may prove of exceeding ill Consequence:

"The Petitioners therefore humbly pray this Right Honourable Committee, That they would be pleased to be a Means to obtain the Leave and Furtherance of both Houses of Parliament, for the Reception of this Person as heretofore hath been used, whereby he may take Notice, that, although His Majesty our King be absent, yet the Parliament hath had Regard unto the Dignity of his Master, in shewing fitting Respect to him, coming from so great an Emperor:

"And further that, by the Favour of the Parliament, One of the sequestered Houses in the City of London may be assigned for his Residence, where the Petitioners will take Care for his honourable Entertainment.

"And they shall ever pray, &c."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9^a cras.