House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 3 July 1645

Die Jovis, 3 Julii.

The Earl of Denbigh, Speaker.

Harborn to be Minister of Chevening.

Upon reading of the humble Petition of Will'm Harborne, Minister; shewing, "That, upon the Death of Doctor Bucknell, this House granted the Rectory of Cheeveninge, in the County of Kent, unto the Petitioner, who hath since January last supplied the Place; and the House of Commons have from this House been desired to concur therein:"

Which being not yet done; it is Ordered, by the Lords in Parliament assembled, That the said Will'm Harborne shall take and receive the Profits of the said Rectory during such Time as he shall officiate the said Cure.

Grove to be released, to prosecute his Cause.

Ordered, That Henry Grove, having a Cause depending in this House against Richard Mills, which is to be heard at the Bar on the 9th of this Instant July, and being a Prisoner in The Fleete, shall have Liberty, with his Keeper, to go in and out, about his said Cause, until it be determined; so that he be a true Prisoner, and return to The Fleete every Night.

Countess of Haddington to export Horses.

Ordered, That the Countess of Haddington shall take over her Horses Custom-free, according to the Pass was granted the 27 June last.

Answer to the E. of Leven's Letter.

A Report was made from the Committee of both Kingdoms, touching some Answer to be made to the Earl of Levin's Letter. (Here enter it.)

Plichier's Petition.

The Petition of Symon Plichier read, but nothing done upon it.

Observations on the Letters taken at Naseby.

Report was made by the Earl of Northumb'land, from the Committee of both Houses, what Observations had been made by them, out of the several Letters taken in Naisby Feild; which were read, and approved of, with some Alterations made at the Clerk's Table: They were to be communicated, at a Common Hall in the City, this Afternoon. (Here enter them.)

Committee to go the Common Hall about them.

Ordered, That the Committee formerly appointed to peruse the said Letters are to go into the City this Afternoon, to the Common Hall; the Earl of Salisbury being added thereunto.

Message from the H. C. about it; and for a Conference about Carlisle.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Ro. Pye:

That they have Resolved, That a Committee of their whole House shall go into the City, and do desire the Lords will do the like; and to have a present Conference touching Carlile.

Both Agreed.

Message to the H. C. with the Observations on the Letters taken at Naseby; and for Committees to go to the Common Hall with them.

Mr. Doctor Aylett and Mr. Doctor Heath were sent with this Message to the House of Commons:

That the Lords have taken Consideration of the Observations made out of the Letters taken in Naisby Feild, reported to them by their Committee; and do approve of them, with some Alterations, which the Lords desire the Concurrence of the House of Commons in; and that the Lords do agree that a Committee of both Houses may meet this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock, in The Guild Hall, Lond.

Sir E. Leech's Petition, about Examination of Witnesses, in the E. of Denbigh's Cause.

The Petition of Sir Edward Leech Knight, One of the Masters of the Chancery, and One of the Assistants of the House of Peers, was read, touching some Examination of Witnesses by him in the Cause of the Earl of Denbigh, against some of the Committee of Stafford and others. (Here enter it.)

Ordered, That the Committee of Stafford, or some or One of them, shall have a Copy of the said Petition, who are to return in their Answer to the Complaints of the said Petition within Ten Days next after this Order shall be served; and the said Sir Edward Leech is to make his Defence, by his Counsel, or otherwise, as he shall be advised.

Lords to meet at Guildhall P. M.

Ordered, That the Gentleman Usher shall warn all the Lords of this House to meet at Two this Afternoon, at Guildhall, London.

Major Temple's Petition, concerning a Prosecution against him by Ludlow, at Mrs. Giles's Suit.

Upon the reading of the Petition of Purbecke Temple, Major to Colonel Fienes's Regiment: It is Ordered, That the said Petitioner, and Geo. Ludlowe who prosecutes a Suit against the said Major at the Suit of Mrs. Margarett Giles, shall appear before the Lords To-morrow Morning; and that all Proceedings in this Cause shall be stayed, until the Pleasure of this House be further signified.

Letter from the Scots Commissioners.

A Letter from the Scotts Commissioners, directed to the Speaker of the House of Peers, with a Paper therein closed, was read. (Here enter it.)

Message from the H. C. to meet early at Guildhall.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Mildmey & al.

That the House of Commons desires that the Meeting may be at Two this Afternoon, at Guildehall, in regard of the great Importance of the Business, and the Expectation of the People.

Answered:

Answer.

That the Lords (fn. 1) do agree to the Time; and that they will meet accordingly, if they can.

Ordered, That the Earl of Northumb'land shall make the Introduction into the Business at Guildhall, Lond. this Afternoon.

Answer from the H. C.

Answer returned from the House of Commons by the last Messengers:

That they have agreed to the Observations as the Lords sent them down; and that to the Second Part of the Message, they have returned an Answer.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure; and the Lords went to the Conference touching Carlile.

The House resumed upon their Lordships coming back again.

Adjourn.

And adjourned to Nine To-morrow.

Answer to be sent to the E. of Leven and to the Scots Commissioners.

"Die Martis, 2 Julii, 1645.

"At the Committee of both Kingdoms.

"Ordered, That it be reported to both Houses, That an Answer be returned to the Letter from the Earl of Leven, and the General Officers of the Scottish Army, of the 21th of June; and to the Paper of the Scottish Commissioners given in upon the of that Month.

Commissioners to be sent to the Scots Army.

"That it be reported to the Houses, That a Committee from both Houses may be sent to the Scottish Army; and that the Paper of the Commissioners concerning this Particular, and their former Paper, be also reported to the Houses.

"Gualter Frost,

"Secretary to the same Committee.

Observations on the Letters taken at Naseby.

"January the 2, 164 5 / 4.

"That the King endeavours to overthrow the Act of Parliament, and His Public Declaration of acknowledging this Parliament at the Treaty, by an Act of Council at Oxon, and an Entry upon the Council Book.

"2. That the owning of the Parliament was only to draw on a Treaty, by which He hoped for Advantages, without any Intention to acknowledge it indeed.

"3. That the King would never have acknowledged the Parliament, if He had had but Two Men to have stuck to Him in denying it; Himself being more ready to destroy the Parliament, and more violently bent against it, than His very Oxford Councils.

"4. That the Kingdoms and Parliaments can hardly expect, without great Difficulty, to have Assurance to rest upon any Thing that the King declares, when His Public Declarations are thus undermined by Private Acts and Registers.

"Duke Lorraine.

"January the 9th, 164 5 / 4;.

"March 30, 1645.

"That the King endeavours to bring in a Foreign Prince, of the Romish Religion, with an Army of Strangers, to invade this Kingdom; which the King and His Party have solemnly protested never to do.

"That the King and Queen expect Assistance in this Business, for Shipping, from the Prince of Orange; from whom, being a Protestant Prince, we had Reason to hope better.

"That the Embargo of the Merchants Ships is a special Fruit of the Queen's Negociation there, who useth all Means to bring Enemies upon us, and to take Trade and Commerce from us.

"That the King will make no Peace, but such a one as shall invite the Queen's Return, with whom He hath concluded private Grounds and Instructions, according to which He will manage all Treaties.

"That He will be constant to the Bishops and His Friends, and not admit a Peace without putting a short Period to this perpetual Parliament.

"March 5th, 1645.

"That the King intends to take away all Penal Laws against Papists in England, by the Arms and Assistance of Papists, and in their Favours.

"That the same Power that may take away these Laws, may take away all other Laws; and so, by Force, subject both Religion and Liberty to the Will and Pleasure of the King and Roman Catholics.

"March the 13th, 1645.

"That even they who have deserted their Trust in Parliament, and given up their Lives, Fortunes, and Conscience, to a Compliance with the King's Will, are now despised, by the Name of a base, mutinous, and mungrel Parliament, because they yet retain a little Conscience to Religion and this Parliament."

Sir Ed. Leech's Petition, about an Accusation of Partiality against him, in taking the Examinations in the E. of Denbigh's Complaint against Capt. Stone & al. Committees for Stafford.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords assembled in Parliament.

"The humble Petition of Sir Edward Leech Knight, One of the Masters of the Chancery, and One of the Assistants of your Lordships House;

"Humbly sheweth,

"That whereas Edward Broughton, John Swinfen, Henry Stone, Thomas Pudsey, and John Simcox, have informed your Lordships, that the Petitioner, being appointed by your Lordships to take the Examinations of Witnesses, in a Cause depending before your Lordships, wherein the Right Honourable the Earl of Denbigh is Complainant, against them and others Defendants;

"1. That the Petitioner hath taken the said Examinations privately, and none of them permitted to be present to hear what the Witnesses delivered. And,

"2. That they are informed, that the Petitioner hath inclined, in taking the said Examinations, to leave out such Part of the Depositions as might make for them.

"Whereunto the Petitioner doth humbly make this Answer:

"That he and Mr. Doctor Aylett were appointed, by your Lordships, to take the said Examinations, and to return them to your Lordships; and the Defendants might examine or cross-examine as they thought fit, as by your Lordships Orders of the 27th and 28th of January last may appear: And the said Defendants, being made acquainted with the said Orders, desired Two Days Time to prepare their Interrogatories, which was granted them.

"And then we beginning to enter into the Execution of your Lordships said Commission and Orders, One of them came into the Room, and demanded whether they might not be present at the Examination of the Witnesses produced against them; which the Petitioner did deny, saying, "That, by that Means, the Depositions would be published before they were returned;" wherein Mr. Doctor Aylett did concur: And after that, neither he, nor any other for them, did appear before us, nor offer any Interrogatories, nor produced any Witnesses to be examined.

"And that Denial the Petitioner is ready to justify (under your Lordships Favour), that it stands with the Precedents of this High Court and all other Courts.

"After that, we proceeded, and examined Five Witnesses together; but finding that the Witnesses were many, and the Interrogatories long, we divided ourselves, and examined the rest alone (according to the Power given us by the said Orders), whereof the Petitioner examined Thirteen, and Mr. Doctor Aylett Twelve; which Depositions we have returned to your Lordships.

"And the Petitioner did take them with as great Indifferency and Faithfulness as was (fn. 2) possible.

"And therefore, as to that other Charge, that the Petitioner should incline to leave out such Part of the Depositions as might make for them; the Petitioner, under your Lordships Favour, doth affirm, and is ready to maintain, that it is a false Accusation.

"And humbly appealeth to your Lordships Justice for his Reparation therein.

"And he shall ever pray, &c.

"E. Leeche."

Letter from the Scots Commissioners.

"My Lord,

"The Committee of both Kingdomes not having mett this Morning, wee do earnestly intreate you to communicate the inclosed Paper to the House of Peers, and remaine

Darby House, 3rd July, 1645, at Eleaven of the Clocke in the Forenoone.

"Your Lordship's
Affectionate Freinds and Servants,
W. Jhonston.
Ro. Barclay."

The Endorsement of this Letter was, To the Right Honorable the Speaker of the House of Peers."

Paper from them, desiring to see the Letters taken at Naseby.

"Whereas, in Answer to the Third Article of our Paper of the Date the 20th of June, concerning the renewing of the Desires of the Parliaments of both Kingdomes for a just and well-grounded Peace, it is made knowne to us by both Houses of Parliament, that diverse Letters and Papers of great Importance are come to their Hands, which may give Light to the future Proceedings of both Kingdomes, and therfore very necessary to be comunicated to us, that, after mutuall Advise had, wee may proceede in the most effectuall Way for the atteyneing an happy Peace; and forasmuch as it is also Ordered by both Houses, that those Papers be communicated to the Committee of both Kingdomes, that there may be Copies transmitted into Scotland and Forreyne Parts, as they shall see Occasion; wee cannot be answerable to the Trust committed to us, if wee should not remonstrat to both the Honorable Houses of Parliament, that, notwithstanding the Publique Concernment of the Kingdome of Scotland in Matters of so great and gennerall Importance, and notwithstanding the Interest of some perticuler Persons of that Kingdome which may be touched in some of those Papers, none of them as yet have bin comunicated to us, neither in the Committee of both Kingdomes, nor any other Way apart, although wee have beene wayting and attending carefully for that Effect.

"And therfore our Desier is, that, according to the Importance of the Matter, and the Publique Interest of the Kingdome of Scotland, as it is Ordered by both Houses, those Papers may so timously be imparted unto us, as wee may make such Use of them as may acquitt us to those that sent us.

"And wee may be able, for our Part, after mutuall Advise, to satisfy the Intentions of both Houses.

2d July, 1645.

"By Commaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotl.

"Jo. Cheisly."