House of Lords Journal Volume 62: 29 June 1830

Die Martis, 29 Junii 1830.

DOMINI tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

E. of Shaftesbury chosen Speaker pro tempore.

The Lord Chancellor not being present, and The Lord Tenterden and The Lord Wynford, appointed Speakers by His late Majesty's Commissions, being absent, the Lords unanimously chose The Earl of Shaftesbury to be Speaker pro tempore:

And his Lordship took his Seat upon the Woolsack accordingly.

PRAYERS.

Lords take the Oaths.

The Lords following took the Oaths, and also took and subscribed the Oath of Abjuration, pursuant to the Statutes:

Henry Richard Earl Brooke and Earl of Warwick.

Charles William Earl of Charleville.

William Earl of Lonsdale.

Robert Viscount Melville.

Henry Viscount Sidmouth.

Francis Gerard Viscount Lake.

George Viscount Gordon.

George Anson Lord Byron.

Robert Lord Carrington.

Alleyne Lord St. Helens.

George Lord Ross.

James Archibald Lord Wharncliffe.

M'Grigor et al.v.Cochran, Appellants Petition for Time for their Case, referred to Appeal Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of Alexander M'Grigor, and others, Appellants in a Cause depending in this House, to which Mrs. Margaret Cochran or Halliburton is Respondent; praying, "That the Time for laying the Appellants Case on their Lordships Table may be enlarged for Three Weeks from the 21st Day of July next:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Committee appointed to consider of the Causes in which Prints of the Appellants and Respondents Cases, now depending in this House in Matters of Appeals and Writs of Error, have not been delivered, pursuant to the Standing Orders of this House.

Robley et al. v. Brooke, Respondent's Petition to lodge his Case, referred to Appeal Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of Charles Brooke, Respondent in a Cause depending in this House, to which Caroline Robley, and others, are Appellants; praying, "That their Lordships will be pleased to grant to the Petitioner the Permission of now laying his printed Case upon the Table of this House:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Committee appointed to consider of the Causes in which Prints of the Appellants and Respondents Cases, now depending in this House in Matters of Appeals and Writs of Error, have not been delivered, pursuant to the Standing Orders of this House,

Rothschild v. Brookman, Respondent's Petition to lodge his Case, referred to Appeal Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of James Brookman, Respondent in a Cause depending in this House, to which Nathan Mayer Rothschild is Appellant; praying, "That their Lordships will be pleased to grant him Leave to deposit his Case:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Committee appointed to consider of the Causes in which Prints of the Appellants and Respondents Cases, now depending in this House in Matters of Appeals and Writs of Error, have not been delivered, pursuant to the Standing Orders of this House.

Ld. Douglas, & Stark, v. Reid:

Upon reading the Petition and Appeal of The Right Honorable Archibald Lord Douglas of Douglas, and of John Stark, Printer in Edinburgh; complaining of an Interlocutor of the Lord Ordinary in Scotland of the 12th of December 1829; also of an Interlocutor of the Lords of Session there, of the First Division, of the 25th of May 1830; and also of an Interlocutor of the said Lord Ordinary of the 18th of June 1830; and praying, "That the same may be reversed, varied or altered, "or that the Appellants may have such Relief in the Premises, as to this House, in their Lordships great Wisdom, shall seem meet; and that Alexander Reid, Merchant in Dundee, may be required to answer the said Appeal:"

It is Ordered, That the said Alexander Reid may have a Copy of the said Appeal, and do put in his Answer thereunto, in Writing, on or before Tuesday the 27th Day of July next; and Service of this Order upon the said Respondent, or upon any one of his known Agents in the Court of Session in Scotland, shall be deemed good Service.

Richardson to enter into a Recog ce on it.

The House being moved, "That John Richardson of Fludyer Street, Westminster, Gentleman, may be permitted to enter into a Recognizance for Archibald Lord Douglas of Douglas, and John Stark, on account of their Appeal depending in this House, they being in Scotland:"

It is Ordered, That the said John Richardson may enter into a Recognizance for the said Appellants, as desired.

Mackenzie v. Macartney:

Upon reading the Petition and Appeal of Murdo Mackenzie Esquire, of Ardross; complaining of an Interlocutor of the Lord Ordinary in Scotland of the 24th of June 1829; and also of an Interlocutor of the Lords of Session there, of the Second Division, of the 4th of June 1830; and praying, "That the same may be reversed, varied or altered, or that the Appellant may have such Relief in the Premises, as to this House, in their Lordships great Wisdom, shall seem meet; and that Alexander Macartney Esquire, Manager for The Commercial Banking Company of Scotland, for behoof of the said Company, may be required to answer the said Appeal:"

It is Ordered, That the said Alexander Macartney may have a Copy of the said Appeal, and do put in his Answer thereunto, in Writing, on or before Tuesday the 27th Day of July next; and Service of this Order upon the said Respondent, or upon any of his known Agents in the Court of Session in Scotland, shall be deemed good Service.

Richardson to enter into a Recog ce on it.

The House being moved, "That John Richardson of Fludyer Street, Westminster, Gentleman, may be permitted to enter into a Recognizance for Murdo Mackenzie Esquire, on account of his Appeal depending in this House, he being in Scotland:"

It is Ordered, That the said John Richardson may enter into a Recognizance for the said Appellant, as desired.

M'Lellan v. M'Leod.

Ordered, That the Cause wherein John M'Lellan Esquire is Appellant, and Alexander Norman M'Leod Esquire is Respondent, be further heard by Counsel at the Bar on Thursday next.

Glasgow & Kilmarnock Road Bill, Petition against, referred to the Com ee:

Upon reading the Petition of the Magistrates, Councillors and Deacons of the Incorporated Trades of the Town of Kilmarnock, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; taking notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act for amending and continuing an Act for repairing Roads in the County of Renfrew, and for altering the Line of Road between Glasgow and Kilmarnock, in the said County;" and praying their Lordships, "That they may have Leave to be heard by themselves and Counsel, as well against the Preamble as the Provisions of the Bill, and that they may have such Relief in the Premises, as to this House, in its Wisdom and Justice, shall seem meet:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed, and that the Petitioners be at liberty to be heard by themselves, or Counsel, against the same, as desired.

D. of Hamilton v. Aikman.

Upon reading the Petition and Appeal of The Most Noble Alexander Duke of Hamilton and Brandon, complaining of Two Interlocutors of the Lords of Session in Scotland, of the Second Division, of the 14th of November 1829, and the 17th (signed the 18th) of June 1830; and praying, "That the same may be reserved, varied or amended, or that the Appellant may have such Relief in the Premises, as to this House, in their Lordships great Wisdom, shall seem meet; and that George Robertson Aikman of Ross and Broomelton, Esquire, may be required to answer the said Appeal:"

It is Ordered, That the said George Robertson Aikman may have a Copy of the said Appeal, and do put in his Answer thereunto, in Writing, on or before Tuesday the 27th Day of July next; and Service of this Order upon the said Respondent, or upon any of his known Counsel or Agents in the Court of Session in Scotland, shall be deemed good Service.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure.

The House was resumed by The Lord Chancellor.

East India Co. Accounts respecting, Ordered.

Ordered, That there be laid before this House, "A Return of the Items, and their actual Amount, included in the Charge for Prime Cost of the Company's Teas in each Year since 1814:"

And also, "An Account of the Remittances in Merchandize from India made in each Year since 1814; stating their Invoice Value, the Charges incurred upon them, and the Sums which they realized at the Company's Sales."

The King's Message respecting the Death of His late Majesty, & the calling of a new Parliament:

The Duke of Wellington acquainted the House, "That he had a Message from His Majesty, under His Royal Sign Manual, which His Majesty had commanded him to deliver to their Lordships;" and the same was read by The Lord Chancellor, and is as follows:

"WILLIAM R.

"The King feels assured that The House of Lords entertains a just Sense of the Loss which His Majesty and the Country have sustained by the Death of the late King, His Majesty's lamented Brother, and that The House of Lords sympathizes with His Majesty on this mournful Event, which has involved His Majesty in deep Affliction.

"The King has taken into His Consideration the advanced Period of the Session, and the State of the Public Business, and is unwilling to recommend to the Attention of Parliament any new Matter which may admit of Postponement without Detriment to the Public Service: His Majesty has also adverted to the Provisions of the Law by which, in consequence of the Demise of His late Majesty, the Duration of the present Parliament must necessarily terminate at an early Period; and being of Opinion, that it will be most conducive to the general Convenience, and to the Interests of the County, to call a new Parliament with as little Delay as may be practicable, His Majesty recommends to The House of Lords to make such temporary Provision as may be requisite for the Conduct of the Public Service in the Interval that must elapse between the Close of the present Session and the assembling of a new Parliament.

"W. R."

And the same being again read by the Clerk;

Ordered, That the said Message be taken into Consideration To-morrow; and that the Lords be summoned.

Address of Condolence & Congratulation to The King.

Ordered, Nemine Dissentiente, That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty, to assure His Majesty, that we fully participate in the severe Affliction His Majesty is suffering on account of the Death of the late King, His Majesty's Brother, of blessed and glorious Memory.

That we shall ever remember with affectionate Gratitude that our late Sovereign, under Circumstances of unexampled Difficulty, maintained the ancient Glory of this Country in War, and during a Period of long Duration secured to His People the inestimable Blessings of internal Concord and external Peace.

To offer to His Majesty our humble and heartfelt Congratulations on His Majesty's happy Accession to the Throne.

To assure His Majesty of our loyal Devotion to His Majesty's sacred Person; and to express our entire Confidence, founded on our Experience of His Majesty's beneficent Character, that His Majesty, animated by sincere Love for the Country, which His Majesty has served from His earliest Years, will, under the Favour of Divine Providence, direct all His Efforts to the Maintenance of the Reformed Religion established by Law, to the Protection of the Rights and Liberties, and to the Advancement of the Happiness and Prosperity, of all Classes of His Majesty's faithful People.

Ordered, That the said Address be presented to His Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.

Galway Town Regulation Bill, Petition in favor of.

Upon reading the Petition of the Justices of the Peace residing and possessing Estates of Inheritance in the Town and Neighbourhood of Galway, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; taking notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act to repeal so much of an Act passed in Ireland in the Fourth Year of the Reign of King George the First, for the better regulating the Town of Galway, and for strengthening the Protestant Interest therein, as limits the Franchise created by the said Act to Protestants only;" and praying, "That their Lordships will be graciously pleased to pass the same into a Law:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Taxes, (Ireland,) Petitions from Rosscommon & Boyle against the Encrease of.

Upon reading the Petition of the Freeholders and Inhabitants of the County of Roscommon, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships will take the Case of Ireland into their serious Consideration, and that their Lordships will not permit any additional Taxation on that Part of the United Kingdom:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Upon reading the Petition of the Burgesses and Inhabitants of the Borough and Vicinity of Boyle, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships not to impose additional Burthens on Ireland, which must have the certain Effect of overflowing the Cup of Bitterness which the Hand of Poverty has so long held to the Lip of their afflicted Country:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Criminal Laws, Petitions for Alteration of: (Brighton:)

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of Brighton and its Vicinity, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying "for the deliberate Attention of their Lordships to the Laws inflicting Death for Crimes against Property, in the Hope that the same may be so modified that some other Punishment may be substituted:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Bankers of London:

Upon reading the Petition of the Bankers of London, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships will not withhold from them that Protection to their Property which they would derive from a more effectual Law than that of the Infliction of Death for the Crime of Forgery:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Pembroke St. Chapel, Devonport.

Upon reading the Petition of the Members of the Congregation of Protestant Dissenters of the Baptist Denomination meeting for Divine Worship in Pembroke Street, in the Town of Devonport, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "speedily to enact such Laws as shall greatly mitigate the Penal Code:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

East India, &c. Trade, Petitions from Bilston & Rochdale for opening, referred to East India Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of Bilston, in the County of Stafford, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That, when the Question for the Renewal of the Charter of The East India Company shall be submitted to their Lordships, no Sanction may be given to the Continuance of exclusive Commercial Privileges, so vexatious to the British Merchant, so ruinous to the British Manufacturer, and so destructive of the best Interests of the Country at large; and that every possible Facility may be granted by their Lordships to all British Subjects to procure for themselves a free and unrestricted Trade with the Chinese Empire:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Select Committee appointed to enquire into the present State of the Affairs of The East India Company, and into the Trade between Great Britain, the East Indies and China.

Upon reading the Petition of the Merchants, Manufacturers and others, Inhabitants of Rochdale and its Vicinity, in the County Palatine of Lancaster, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, That such Measures may be adopted as will secure to all His Majesty's Subjects in the United Kingdom a Free Trade to all the Countries situated to the Eastward of the Cape of Good Hope, and the Liberty of proceeding to and residing in any Country, (subject to this,) under the Guarantee of equal, just, liberal and enlightened Laws, consistent with the good Government, Tranquillity and Safety of the British Possessions in India:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

East Retford Election Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the further Consideration and Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, An Act to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of East Retford;" and for the Lords to be summoned; and for permitting Counsel to examine Witnesses in support of the Bill; and for hearing Counsel on the Petition of the Burgesses of the Borough of East Retford, in the County of Nottingham, whose Names are thereunto subscribed, praying their Lordships, "That the said Bill may not pass into a Law;"

Counsel were accordingly called in.

Then Robert Smithson was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Adam.) "I believe you are a Solicitor practising at York?"

"I am."

"How long have you been so?"

"About Twenty Years."

"Are you in considerable Practice?"

"Yes."

"Had you at any Time a Clerk in your Office of the Name of Hornby?"

"Yes, I had."

"How long ago was it since he left you?"

"He left me about the 2d or 3d of December 1813."

"How long had he been in your Office?"

"He had been in my Office as an Articled Clerk about a Year and Five Months; if he had served 'till January he would have served a Year and a Half."

"Had he been in your Office previously to his being an Articled Clerk?"

"He had."

"For how long?"

"I think about Two Years."

"Altogether then Three Years and a Half in your Office?"

"Within a Month."

"Had you known his Family?"

"I knew his Father."

"What was his Father?"

"A Chymist and Druggist."

"Residing in the City of York?"

"Yes."

"Did he continue to be a Chymist and Druggist during the whole Time that his Son was in your Office ?"

"I think he did; I think he had not removed to Dunnington, his present Residence."

"Afterwards then he did retire to Dunnington?"

"Yes."

"What Occupation did he carry on there?"

"He kept a private Asylum for Lunatics."

"What was the Cause of your parting with Mr. Hornby, the Son?"

Mr. Law objected to the Question, as relating to collateral Matter not relevant to the Matter in Issue.

Mr. Adam and Mr. Alderson were heard in support of the Question, contending that the House was not bound by the strict Rules of Evidence observed in the Courts of Law.

Mr. Law was heard in reply.

The Counsel were informed, "That their Lordships conceived that the Ground of the Rule adopted in the Courts of Law was to prevent Surprise; and that Injustice might not be done in consequence of the limited Time allotted to the Enquiry; and that as neither of those Grounds would hold in the present Case, they considered the Evidence to be admissible."

(Mr. Adam.) "What induced you to dismiss Mr. Hornby?"

"I had several Inducements; the last Inducement was his borrowing Money in my Name without my Authority."

"Did Mr. Hornby then borrow Money in your Name without your Authority?"

"He did."

"Of whom did he borrow it?"

"Of a Man of the Name of James Monkman."

The Counsel and Witness were directed to withdraw.

The Counsel were again called in, and directed to proceed.

The Witness was again called in, and further examined as follows:

"Did you then part with Mr. Hornby on account of any Money Transactions?"

"Yes; it was solely on account of Money Transactions that I did part with him; previous to borrowing this Money I had found him wrong in the Receipt of several Sums which he did not account for, but applied to his own Use."

The Counsel and Witness were directed to withdraw.

It was moved, "That the further Consideration of the said Bill be adjourned to Friday next."

Which being objected to;

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Negative.

The Counsel were again called in, and directed to proceed.

The Witness was again called in, and further examined as follows:

"Had Mr. Hornby then charge of your Accounts at any Time?"

"He had."

"Did you part with Mr. Hornby on account of any Money Matters?"

"Certainly."

"Did you part with Mr. Hornby on account of any Difference with him on that Account?"

"Certainly."

"What was the nature of that Account?"

"He kept the Office Disbursement Account, and was in the habit of receiving several Sums of Money, and I could not find out that he had been deceiving me 'till the Parties who had Money to pay, upon Application, said they had paid the Money to him."

"Was it then upon an Office Account that you had this Difference?"

"It was."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

The Counsel were directed to withdraw.

It was moved, "That the House do now adjourn."

Which being objected to;

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Negative.

The Counsel were again called in.

The Counsel were directed to withdraw.

It was moved, "That the further Consideration of the said Bill be adjourned to Friday next."

Which being objected to;

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Negative.

The Counsel were again called in.

The Counsel were directed to withdraw.

Ordered, That the further Consideration and Second Reading of the said Bill be put off to Friday next; and that the Lords be summoned.

Shubenaccadie Canal Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to authorize the Advance of a certain Sum out of the Consolidated Fund, for the Completion of the Shubenaccadie Canal in Nova Scotia;"

Ordered, That the said Order be discharged.

Lords summoned.

Ordered, That all the Lords be summoned to attend the Service of the House on Friday next.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Mercurii, tricesimum diem instantis Junii, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.