House of Lords Journal Volume 62: 8 June 1830

Die Martis, 8 Junii 1830.

DOMINI tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

E. of Shaftesbury chosen Speaker protempore.

The Lord Chancellor not being present, and The Lord Tenterden and The Lord Wynford, appointed Speakers by His Majesty's Commissions, being absent, The Lords unanimously chose The Earl of Shaftesbury to be Speaker pro tempore;

And his Lordship took his Seat upon the Woolsack accordingly.

PRAYERS.

Lewis & Stevens v. Bridgman, Petition to present Appeal, referred to Appeal Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of Thomas Lewis and Robert Andrew Stevens; setting forth, "That on or about the 25th Day of January last an original Cause brought by the Petitioners in the High Court of Chancery in England against Sir Samuel Young, since deceased, together with a revived and supplemental Suit brought against William Bridgman the younger and John Lewis Mallet, as the Executors of the said Sir Samuel Young, came on to be heard before His Honor the Vice Chancellor, and on or about the 29th Day of the said Month of January His Honor was pleased to make the following Decree or Decretal Order therein; viz ^t. That the Plaintiffs Bill do stand dismissed out of this Court, with Costs, to be taxed by the Master of this Court in Rotation: That the Petitioners, being advised and intending to appeal against the said Decree of Dismission, caused a Caveat against enrolling the same to be entered with the Secretary of The Right Honorable The Lord High Chancellor, on or about the 13th Day of February last, intitling the same as follows, "Caveat against enrolling a Decree of Dismissal made by His Honor the Vice Chancellor on 29th January 1830, between Thomas Lewis and Robert Andrew Stevens, Plaintiffs, Sir Samuel Young (deceased) and William Bridgman the younger and John Lewis Mallet, by original Bill and Bill of Revivor, Defendants:" That on or about the 2d Day of March last the Petitioners gave Notice of a Special Motion to His Honor the Vice Chancellor, to be made on the 6th Day of March or so soon after as Counsel could be heard, that the said Defendants might be ordered to leave in the Hands of their Clerk in Court the Paper Writing marked A, purporting to be a true Copy of a Terrier of the Parish of Cookham, in the County of Berks, referred to by the Deposition of Attwood Henry Kelsey, a Witness examined on the Part of the Defendant Sir Samuel Young in the said original Cause, and which said Paper Writing was produced and read as Evidence on behalf of the Defendants on the Hearing of the said Causes, and that the same might be impounded until further Order, and that the said Plaintiffs, and their Solicitors and Agents, might be at liberty to inspect and examine the same, and take Copies thereof, as they might be advised; and such Motion came on for Hearing before His Honor the Vice Chancellor on the 10th Day of May last past, when His Honor was pleased to order that the Motion should stand over until Monday the 17th Day of May, and that the said Defendants, William Bridgman the younger and John Lewis Mallet, should then produce to the Court the Paper Writing or Exhibit marked A, referred to by the said Deposition of the said Attwood Henry Kelsey, and in the mean time all Proceedings under the said Decree were to be stayed; and the said Motion is still pending: That after Notice of the aforesaid Motion had been given, and whilst the same was waiting for Hearing, the said Defendants procured the said Decree of Dismission to be passed and entered by the Registrar; and the same having been intitled only in the said revived and supplemental Cause between Thomas Lewis and Robert Andrew Stevens, Plaintiffs, and the said William Bridgman the younger and John Lewis Mallet, Defendants, the said Defendants on or about the 19th Day of March last procured the same to be allowed by The Right Honorable The Lord High Chancellor, and to be enrolled, without taking any Notice of the Caveat so entered by the Petitioners, and without giving the Petitioners any Intimation of the Application for such Enrolment, and the Petitioners only accidentally discovered that such Enrolment had been obtained: That the Petitioners are very desirous of appealing to their Lordships against the said Decree of Dismission during the present Session of Parliament, and have prepared their Petition of Appeal to their Lordships accordingly, which has been duly signed by Counsel, and is ready to be presented to their Lordships; but by reason of the usual Period of Fourteen Days allowed for bringing in Appeals, by the Order No. 55. of their Lordships House, having elapsed, the Petitioners are unable to present their Petition of Appeal, without their Lordships special Leave for such Purpose;" and therefore praying their Lordships, "That they may be at liberty to present their Appeal against the said Decree or Decretal Order of Dismission, in the same Manner as if the same had been presented within Fourteen Days after the Enrolment thereof."

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Committee appointed to consider of the Causes in which Prints of the Appellants and Respondents Cases, now depending in this House in Matters of Appeals and Writs of Error, have not been delivered, pursuant to the Standing Orders of this House.

Gaywood v. M'Keand.

Upon reading the Petition and Appeal of George Charles Gaywood, residing in Edinburgh, Nephew and Heir at Law of the deceased George Gaywood, Hat Manufacturer in Glasgow; complaining of an Interlocutor of the Lord Ordinary in Scotland, of the 1st of March 1828; and also of an Interlocutor of the Lords of Session there, of the First Division, of the 19th of June 1828; and praying, "That the same may be reversed, varied or altered, or that the Appellant may have such Relief in the Premises, as to this House, in their Lordships great Wisdom, shall seem meet; and that Anthony M'Keand, as Trustee said to have been appointed by the said George Gaywood deceased, may be required to answer the said Appeal:"

It is Ordered, That the said Anthony M'Keand may have a Copy of the said Appeal, and do put in his Answer thereunto, in Writing, on or before Tuesday the 6th of Day of July next; and Service of this Order upon the said Respondent, or upon any one of his known Agents in the Court of Session in Scotland, shall be deemed good Service.

Perth Navigation, &c. Bill read 2 a & committed:

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for enlarging, improving and maintaining the Port and Harbour of Perth; for improving the Navigation of the River Tay to the said City; and for other Purposes therewith connected."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords following:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on Thursday next, at Ten o'Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings, near the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

Petitions against & for it, referred to the Com ee:

Ordered, That the Petition of The Baker Incorporation of Perth, and also the Petition of The Flesher Incorporation of Perth, presented to the House on Friday last, taking notice of the last-mentioned Bill, and severally praying their Lordships, "That the same be not allowed to pass into a Law; and that the Petitioners be heard by their Counsel and Agents against the same, or so much thereof as affects their Interest," be referred to the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed, and that the Petitioners be at liberty to be heard by their Counsel and Agents against the same, as desired; and that Counsel be heard for the Bill at the same Time, if they think fit.

Ordered, That the Petition of The Guildry Incorporation of the City of Perth, North Britain, presented to the House Yesterday, taking notice of the last-mentioned Bill, and praying their Lordships "to grant a more extended popular Commission for carrying the Provisions of the same into Effect, or at any Rate to grant that it shall be provided by the Bill that Six at least of the Commissioners from the Town Council of the said City shall be chosen from the Trades Members thereof," be referred to the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed.

Ordered, That the Petition of the Merchants, Bankers, Manufacturers, Traders and Persons residing and carrying on Commercial Concerns in the City of Perth, its Suburbs and immediate Vicinity, whose Names are thereunto subscribed, presented to the House Yesterday, taking notice of the last-mentioned Bill, and praying their Lordships "to pass the same into a Law," be referred to the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed.

All Lords added to the Com ee:

Ordered, That all the Lords who have been or shall be present this Session, and are not named of the Committee to whom the last-mentioned Bill stands committed, be added thereto.

Com ee to appoint a Chairman.

Ordered, That the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed do appoint their own Chairman.

Dublin Improvement Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to enable the Commissioners of Wide Streets to widen and improve certain Ways, Streets and Passages in and about the City and County of Dublin; and to amend and extend the Provisions of Two Acts passed in the Forty-seventh and Fifty-seventh Years of the Reign of His late Majesty, for improving and rendering more commodious such Parts of the County and County of the City of Dublin as are situate on the South Side of the River Anna Liffey and West of His Majesty's Castle of Dublin."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords Committees aforenamed:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet Tomorrow, at the usual Time and Place; and to adjourn as they please.

Dartmouth Bridge Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for establishing a Floating Bridge over the Harbour of Dartmouth, from or near to Lower Sand Quay Point to Old Rock, in the County of Devon, and for building Quays and Landing Places, and for making Roads and Approaches thereto, with Branches therefrom."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords Committees aforenamed:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on the same Day, at the same Place; and to adjourn as they please.

East Retford Election, original Minutes for Reports of Com ee of H. C. on, delivered.

The House being informed, "That Mr. Dyson, Clerk of Election Committees of the House of Commons, attended;"

He was called in; and delivered at the Bar, pursuant to a Message to that House of Yesterday,

"The original Minutes for the Reports made from the Select Committee in 1827, to try and determine the Merits of the Petition of Sir Henry Wright Wilson and of Darker Parker, and others, severally complaining of an undue Election and Return for the Borough of East Retford."

And then he withdrew.

Ordered, That the said Papers do lie on the Table.

7th Report on Woods & Forests, &c. delivered.

The House being informed, "That Mr.Waller, from the Office of His Majesty's Woods, Forests and Land Revenues, attended;"

He was called in; and delivered at the Bar, pursuant to the Directions of an Act of Parliament,

"The Seventh Report of the Commissioners of His Majesty's Woods, Forests and Land Revenues."

And then he withdrew.

And the Title thereof being read by the Clerk;

Ordered, That the said Report do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Report be printed.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure.

The House was resumed by The Lord Chancellor.

Mildmay's Divorce Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to dissolve the Marriage of Captain Edward St. John Mildmay with Marianne Catherine his now Wife, and to enable him to marry again; and for other Purposes therein mentioned;" and for hearing Counsel for and against the same; and for the Lords to be summoned;

Counsel were accordingly called in:

And Mr. Pollock appearing as Counsel on behalf of the Petitioner; and no Counsel appearing for Mrs.Mildmay;

Mr. Pollock was heard to open the Allegations of the Bill.

Then Samuel Skinner was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(By Counsel.) "What are you?"

"I am a private Gentleman."

"Were you in the East Indies in the Year 1818?"

"I was."

"Did you know Captain Edward St. John Mildmay?"

"Yes."

"In what Regiment was he then?"

"The 22d Dragoons."

"What Rank had he at that Time?"

"I believe he was under a Lieutenant."

"Did you know Marianne Catherine Sherson?"

"I did not know her 'till the Day of the Marriage."

"Were you Present at his Marriage?"

"I was present at the Marriage."

"Where did it take place?"

"At a Place called Palmanary."

(By a Lord.) "Did you know the Lady before the Marriage?"

"No; I had never seen her before."

"Did you hear what her Name was at that Time?"

"Catherine, I believe."

"What else?"

"Sherson."

(By Counsel.) "Did you become acquainted with her afterwards?"

"No, I did not."

"Have you ever seen her since?"

"Never."

(By a Lord.) "Did you know Lieutenant Mildmay before?"

"No."

"Have you known Lieutenant Mildmay since?"

"I did not see him 'till within these few Days."

"What was he then?"

"He was an Officer in the 22d Dragoons."

"How did you know it was Lieutenant Mildmay, if you had never seen him before, and have never seen him since?"

"I have seen him once or twice since."

(By Counsel.) "Have you seen him to Day?"

"Yes."

"You are perfectly certain that it is the same Person?"

"Yes."

"Did you know Mr. Sherson, the Father of the Lady?"

"I had a slight Acquaintance with Mr. Sherson."

"Who were present at the Marriage?"

"Mr. Roberts and myself, and Mrs. Skinner, my Wife, was there. There were Two or Three Persons whose Names I do not recollect at this Period."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

Then Thomas Harding was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(By Counsel.) "Are you Clerk to Messieurs Bray and Warren?"

"I am."

"Do you produce an examined Copy of any Return from the East Indies?"

"I produce an examined Copy of an Entry in the Original that is returned from the East Indies, and which is now lodged at the East India House."

"The Counsel was informed, "That the House required the Original, to be produced."

"Have you got an examined Copy of the Judgment in an Action against Edmund Knapp?"

"This is it." (Producing the same.)

"Did you examine that yourself with the Original?"

"I did."

"Is it a true Copy?"

"It is."

The same was delivered in and read, being an Office Copy of a Record of a Judgment in the Court of Common Pleas, in Michaelmas Term, in the Tenth Year of the Reign of His present Majesty, in an Action by Edward St. John Mildmay Esquire against Edmund Knapp, for Trespass, Assault and Criminal Conversation with Marianne Catherine the Wife of the said Edward St. John Mildmay, for £400 Damages, besides Costs of Suit.

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

Then Augustus Warren was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(By Counsel.) "Did you serve upon Mrs. Mildmay any Copy of the Bill signed, and a Copy of the Order of the House?"

"I have; I served on Mrs.Mildmay a Copy of the Bill and a Copy of the Order of the House for the Reading of the Bill. I have examined the Copy of the Bill I served with the original Roll."

"Was the Bill signed by any body?"

"It was; by Mr. Courtenay."

"Did you see Mrs. Mildmay?"

"I did."

"Where?"

"I do not know the Name of the Street; it was a Street out of High Street, Mary-le-bone."

(By a Lord.) "How did you know it was Mrs. Mildmay?"

"I produced it to her by a Mr. Whateley, who had acted as her Friend in this Matter."

"Is Mr. Whateley here?"

"No, he is not."

"You did not know Mrs. Mildmay yourself?"

"No; I did not otherwise know her. I asked her if she was Mrs. Mildmay, and she told me that she was."

(By Counsel.) "Had you ever seen her before?"

"No, I had not seen her."

"Have you ever seen her since?"

"No."

The Counsel was informed, "That that was not sufficient Evidence of the Identity of the Lady, without the Evidence of Mr. Whateley."

"Where is Mr. Whateley now; is he in London?"

"Yes; he is a Barrister."

(By a Lord.) "Were you the Solicitor in the Cause?"

"I was."

"Did you conduct the Suit in the Common Pleas?"

"I did."

"How soon after the Judgement was obtained did you sue out the Writ of Execution?"

"We have not sued out the Writ of Execution at present; we cannot find any Property."

"Though you could not find any Property, you might sue out Execution against the Person?"

"Mr. Knapp is Abroad."

"How do you know that?"

"His Solicitor, who is here, will prove that."

"Was he Abroad at that Time?"

"He was."

"Has he never been in England since?"

"Never, that I could ascertain."

"Do you know, of your own Knowledge, that he was Abroad at that Time?"

"I knew from the Information of his Solicitor, that he was Abroad."

"Is he here?"

"He is here."

"Is that the Reason why you did not sue out Execution?"

"Yes; and understanding that the Damages would be paid immediately."

"Have the Damages been paid?"

"No; they are to be paid immediately; which his Solicitors will speak to."

"What is the Name of the Gentleman who was Attorney for the Defendant?"

"Messieurs Hughes and Henslow were the Attornies for the Defendant."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

The Counsel was informed, "That as the Evidence was defective, it was desirable that the whole Case should be adjourned; and that it would be proper that the Solicitor for the Defendant should attend, for the Purpose of verifying the Fact of Mr. Knapp being Abroad at the Time of the Verdict being obtained."

The Counsel was directed to withdraw.

Ordered, That the further Consideration and Second Reading of the said Bill be put off 'till To-morrow, and that the Lords be summoned; and that the Counsel be called in at Four o'Clock.

Criminal Laws, Petition from Leominster for Amendment of.

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Borough of Leominster, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That the Punishment of Death for the Crime of Forgery may be abolished; and that such a Penalty may be substituted for it as may appear to the Legislature best calculated to effect the Prevention of Crime, and to promote the Purposes of Justice:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Tithes Composition Bill, Petition of Vicar of St. Helens, York, respecting.

Upon reading the Petition of John Acaster, Vicar of St. Helens, in the City and Diocese of York; praying, That their Lordships will take into their serious Consideration the Abuses existing in the Administration of the Affairs of the Established Church; and not suffer the Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act for encouraging and facilitating Compositions for Tithes and other Payments arising and payable to Incumbents of Ecclesiastical Benefices in England and Wales," to pass without introducing such Clauses therein as their Lordships, in their Wisdom, may think necessary, to remedy those alarming Evils-a Plurality of Benefices under the Charge of One Individual, the Non-residence of the Beneficed Clergy, and the few Opportunities afforded by the Clergy to their Parishioners for attending Public Worship in a great Number of the Parish Churches throughout the Kingdom:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Poor Laws, Petition from Fermanagh against extending, to Ireland.

Upon reading the Petition of the Landed Proprietors, Landholders, &c. of the County of Fermanagh, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships will, in their Wisdom, reject any Bill for the Introduction of Poor Laws into Ireland; convinced as the Petitioners are that such a Measure, instead of conducing to the Happiness of that Country, would be most injurious to it:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

W. G. Johnstone's Petition claiming the Earldom of Annandale.

The Earl of Shaftesbury (by His Majesty's Command) presented to the House, A Petition of William Greig Johnstone, lately residing in the Parish of Monikie, now in the Town of Montrose, County of Forfar, North Britain, to His Majesty, praying His Majesty "to cause his Petition claiming the Honours and Titles of Annandale to be presented to the House of Lords, for the Purpose of being referred to the Committee of Privileges;" together with His Majesty's Reference thereof to this House.

Which Petition and Reference were read by the Clerk, and are as follow; (viz ^t.)

"To His Most Gracious and Clement Majesty George IV. King of Great Britain and Ireland, &c.

"The humble Petition of William Greig Johnstone, lately residing in the Parish of Monikie, now in the Town of Montrose, County of Forfar, North Britain;

"Sheweth,

"That Your Petitioner is about to claim the Honors and Titles of Annandale, as the only surviving Heir of Line of the Body of James Johnstone of Johnstone, and Heir whatsoever of James First Earl of Annandale, with whom he was connected by John being married to one of his Daughters, in that Part of the United Kingdom called Scotland, as will appear to Your Majesty from the Genealogical Tree hereunto annexed.

"May it therefore please Your Most Benign and Clement Highness to cause this Petition to be presented to the House of Lords, for the Purpose of being referred to the Committee of Privileges.

"Your Petitioner will ever pray.

"WILLIAM GREIG."

"Whitehall, 29th May 1830.

"His Majesty being moved upon this Petition, is graciously pleased to refer the same to The Right Honorable The House of Peers, to examine the Allegations thereof, as to what relates to the Petitioner's Title therein mentioned, and inform His Majesty how the same shall appear to their Lordships.

"RO^t PEEL."

Ordered, That the said Petition, with His Majesty's Reference thereof to this House, be referred to the Committee for Privileges to whom the Petition of John James Hope Johnstone of Annandale, Esquire, to His Majesty, claiming the Titles, Honors and Dignity of Earl of Annandale and Hartfell, Viscount Annan and Baron Johnstone, with His Majesty's Reference thereof to this House, stands referred.

New River Co's Bill Specially reported.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees appointed to consider of the Bill, intituled, An Act to authorize the granting of Leases of Lands Parcel of the Prebend of Stoke Newton or Newnton otherwise Newington, in the County of Middlesex, founded on the Cathedral Church of Saint Paul in London, to The Governor and Company of the New River; and for empowering the Prebendary of the said Prebend, and the Rector of the Rectory or Parish of Stoke Newington, respectively, to grant Building Leases; and for other Purposes;" "That the Committee had met, and considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; and that all the Parties concerned in the Consequences of the Bill had consented thereto in the Manner required by the Standing Orders of this House, except The Reverend Thomas Briggs, Prebendary of the Prebend of Stoke Newton or Newnton otherwise Newington, in the County of Middlesex, founded in the Cathedral Church of Saint Paul in London, (to which Prebend the Bill relates,) who was proved to be at Mayence, on the Rhine; but that Thomas Handley of Winchester Place, Pentonville, and Gray's Inn Square, both in the said County of Middlesex, Gentleman, appeared and consented to the Bill on the Behalf of the said Thomas Briggs, as such Prebendary, by virtue of a Special Power of Attorney for that Purpose, which was produced to the Committee and duly proved; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to their Lordships, with some Amendments."

Which Report, being read by the Clerk, was agreed to by the House.

Then the Amendments made by the Committee to the said Bill, being read Twice by the Clerk, were agreed to by the House.

Ordered, That the said Bill, with the Amendments, be ingrossed.

Ld. Mount Sandford's Estate Bill, Petition for a further Provision.

Upon reading the Petition of George Lord Mount Sandford, and of William Henry Worth Newenham of Coolmore, in the County of Cork, Esquire; taking notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act to enable the Devisees under the last Will and Testament of The Right Honorable Henry Lord Mount Sandford, deceased, to make Leases of the Lands, Tenements and Hereditaments lately in the Possession of the said Henry Lord Mount Sandford, and devised by his said Will; and also to enable the said Devisees to execute a Conveyance to the Rector of Kilkevan of a certain Piece of Ground situate in the Parish of Kilkevan and County of Roscommon;" and praying their Lordships, "That Power may be given by the said Bill to the Persons for the Time being in Possession of the Estate to grant Agricultural Leases for such Term and under such Restrictions as to their Lordships shall seem meet:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Population Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Alexander Grant and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for taking an Account of the Population of Great Britain, and of the Increase or Diminution thereof;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Hamerton's Divorce Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Kennedy and others;

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act to dissolve the Marriage of William Medows Hamerton Esquire with Isabella Frances his now Wife, and to enable him to marry again; and for other Purposes;" and to acquaint this House, That they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

Malt & Hops, Accounts respecting, delivered.

The House being informed, "That Mr. Charles Crafer, from the Treasury, attended;"

He was called in; and delivered at the Bar, pursuant to Orders of the 5th and 11th Days of May last,

"An Account of the Number of Bushels of Malt that have paid the Duty in each Year, from the earliest Period at which the said Return can be made out, and the Amount per Bushel of Duty laid thereon:"

Also, "A Return of the Amount of Hop Duty, old and new Duty included, from the Year 1800 to 1829 inclusive:"

Also, "An Account of the Expenses of Collection in each Year, from 1800 to 1829, and the Number of Persons employed chiefly in the Collection of the Hop Duties:"

Also, "An Account of the Quantity of Acres in Cultivation of Hops in each Year, from 1800 to 1829 inclusive:"

Also, "An Account showing how often in each Year, from 1800 to 1829 inclusive, the Payment of the Hop Duties has been deferred, and to what Periods, and upon what Securities:"

And also, "An Account of the Amount of Arrears of Hop Duty now owing, stating the Year."

And then he withdrew.

And the Titles thereof being read by the Clerk;

Ordered, That the said Papers do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Papers be printed.

East India Com ee, Everett to attend.

Ordered, That Charles Everett Esquire do attend this House To-morrow, to be sworn, in order to his being examined as a Witness before the Select Committee appointed to enquire into the present State of the Affairs of The East India Company, and into the Trade between Great Britain, the East Indies and China.

Watching, &c. Parishes Bill.

The House (according to Order) was adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act to make Provision for the lighting and watching of Parishes in England and Wales."

After some Time, the House was resumed:

And The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Committee, "That they had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Hall's Estate Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to authorize the granting of Mining and Building Leases of certain Parts of the Estates subject to the Trusts of the Will of Benjamin Hall Esquire, deceased."

Then several Amendments were made to the said Bill.

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

D. of Bedford's Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for prohibiting Burying and Funeral Service in a Chapel of Ease intended to be built for the Parish of Saint George, Bloomsbury, in the County of Middlesex."

Then an Amendment was made to the said Bill.

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

G. Smith's Naturalization Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for naturalizing George Smith."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

J.C. Smith's Naturalization Bill.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for naturalizing John Christopher Smith."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Messages to H.C. with the 4 preceding Bills.

And Messages were, severally, sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Cox and Mr. Farrer;

To carry down the said Bills, and desire their Concurrence thereto.

Foreign Lead, Petition of Company for smelting Lead, against Importation of.

Upon reading the Petition of The Governor and Company for smelting down Lead with Pit Coal and Sea Coal, under their Common Seal; praying, "That their Lordships will be pleased to take the depressed State of the Lead Trade into their serious Consideration, and adopt Measures for the Relief of those engaged in that Business, either by encreasing the Amount of the Import Duties on Lead and Lead Ore, or by such other Measures as to their Lordships shall seem meet and expedient:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Importation of Coals into Ireland, Petition of Distillers of Belfast to repeal Duty on.

Upon reading the Petition of the Distillers residing in Belfast and its Neighbourhood, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to take their Case into Consideration, and either totally to repeal the Duty upon Coals imported into Ireland, or to permit their Importation for Distillation, and all other Purposes of Manufacture, free of Duty:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Distress of Ireland, Petition of Society for Improvement of Ireland respecting.

Upon reading the Petition of the Members of the Society for the Improvement of Ireland, and of the Noblemen, Gentlemen, Landholders, Merchants, Manufacturers and others, resident in Ireland, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to take into their immediate and most serious Consideration the present impoverished Condition of Ireland; and by causing the Recommendations contained in the valuable Reports of their Lordships Committees (so long a dead Letter on their Proceedings) to be carried into Effect by suitable Legislative Enactments, to extend the Blessings of remunerative Employment throughout the Country, and thereby contribute to the permanent Peace and Prosperity of Ireland:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Tobacco, (Ireland,) Petition from

Upon reading the Petition of the Cultivators of Tobacco in the Town and Neighbourhood of Enniscorthy, in the

Enniscorthy against additional Duty on.

County of Wexford, Ireland, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships will not legislate upon the Imposition of a Duty upon Tobacco grown in Ireland, a Point of such vital Consequence, not only to the Town and Neighbourhood in which the Petitioners reside, but also to the United Empire, amounting to a Prohibition of the Growth of Tobacco, without summoning and examining Individuals whose Experience on the Growth may enable them to give satisfactory Information, so as to shew the Advantages derivable from its Cultivation at Home, as well as that a Duty to the Extent proposed would act as a Prohibition:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Bogs Draining (Ireland) Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the draining and allotting the Bogs of Ireland;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

The said Bill was accordingly read a Second Time.

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Ordered, That the House be put into a Committee upon the said Bill on Thursday next; and that the Lords be summoned.

Abolition of Fees on Demise of the Crown Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to abolish all Fees and Stamp Duties chargeable on the Renewal of all Appointments, Commissions, Grants, Pensions and Patents consequent on the Demise of the Crown;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

The said Bill was accordingly read a Second Time.

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Hickson's Marriage Annulling Bill, Witnesses to attend, with Documents.

Ordered, That Henry Walker do attend this House To-morrow, in order to his being examined as a Witness upon the Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to declare void an alleged Marriage between Elizabeth Hickson, an Infant, and Thomas Buxton;" and that he do bring with him a certain Affidavit sworn in the Exchequer of Pleas, by Samuel Daykin and Edward Fletcher, on or about the 9th Day of November 1826, in a certain Action wherein Thomas Archer was Plaintiff, and Charles Fletcher Bullivant Defendant, and which said Affidavit is filed with the Clerk of the Rules in the Court of Exchequer of Pleas, in order to its being produced upon the Second Reading of the said Bill.

Ordered, That Matthew Couzens do attend this House To-morrow, in order to his being examined as a Witness upon the Second Reading of the last-mentioned Bill; and that he do bring with him a certain Affidavit sworn by Edward Fletcher and James Pritchard in the Month of May 1826, in a certain Action wherein John Dalman was Plaintiff, and Charles Fletcher Bullivant was Defendant, also Two other Affidavits respectively sworn by Samuel Daykin and the said Edward Fletcher in the Month of November 1826, in a certain Action wherein William Foster Reynolds, Morris Reynolds and William George Colchester were Plaintiffs, and the said Charles Fletcher Bullivant was Defendant, and in a certain Action wherein John Savage and Frances Savage were Plaintiffs, and the said Charles Fletcher Bullivant was Defendant, which said Affidavits are filed with the Clerk of the Rules in the Court of King's Bench, in order to their being produced upon the Second Reading of the said Bill.

Ordered, That John Massey Esquire, the Chief Clerk to The Commissioners of the Court for Relief of Insolvent Debtors, do attend this House To-morrow, in order to his being examined as a Witness upon the Second Reading of the last-mentioned Bill; and that he do bring with him the original Schedule of Edward Fletcher, late of Swadlingcoat near Ashby de la Zouch, Derbyshire, Farmer and Higgler, and all and every Paper annexed thereto, and filed in the Court for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors on or about the 23rd Day of December 1826, and numbered 18,324, in order to their being produced upon the Second Reading of the said Bill.

Macclesfield Water Works Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for better supplying the Inhabitants of the Borough of Macclesfield, in the County of Chester, with Water, and to establish the Rates payable for the same," was committed; "That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

East Retford Election Bill:

The Order of the Day being read for the further Consideration and Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of East Retford;" and for the Lords to be summoned; and for permitting Counsel to examine Witnesses in support of the Bill; and for hearing Counsel on the Petition of the Burgesses of the Borough of East Retford, in the County of Nottingham, whose Names are thereunto subscribed, praying their Lordships, "That the said Bill may not pass into a Law;"

Counsel were accordingly called in.

Then John Hornby was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Law.) "Are you a Solicitor?"

"I am."

"From the Year 1825 to the Middle of the Year 1828, where did you reside?"

"In East Retford."

"Did you practise at that Place as a Solicitor?"

"I did."

"Did you know of a Club called the Blue Club there?"

"I did."

"Were you a Member of it?"

"I was."

"Did you take an active Part in it?"

"Towards the latter End of the Time; not so much so at the Beginning."

"Were any Candidates solicited to offer themselves on that Interest?"

"I do not know that of my own Knowledge."

"Did any present themselves upon the Interest espoused by the Blue Club?"

"They did."

"What was the Object of that Association?"

"I believe it was for the express Purpose of opposing Catholic Emancipation, and supporting Church and State."

"Did you canvass for any of the Candidates who presented themselves?"

"I did."

"Did you know a Mr. Maddox?"

"I did."

"Was he a Candidate at one Time?"

"He was."

"Did you know Mr. Ogilvie?"

"I did."

"Was he also a Candidate?"

"He was."

"And Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"He was too."

"Of those Gentlemen, did any, except Sir Henry Wright Wilson, proceed to the Poll ultimately?"

"None."

"Was Mr. Maddox the first that offered?"

"He was."

"Did you ultimately attend at the Time the Poll was taken?"

"I did."

"Did that Circumstance enable you to become acquainted with the Names and Persons of the Freemen?"

"Most of them."

"In the course of your Canvass, in respect of the several Candidates, were you in frequent Communication with the Freemen?"

"Day by Day."

"Was that for several Months together?"

"For several Months."

"Do you know a Burgess of the Name of James Bailey?"

"I did."

"Is he a Whitesmith?"

"He is."

"Did he live at East Retford?"

"Yes."

"At the Time when Mr. Maddox first came forward, did that Person call upon you?"

"He did."

"Did he give you any Information as to the Course to be pursued with reference to the Candidate?"

"He did."

"State what that Information was?"

"He called upon me, and said that I might not know the Custom of the Borough, and he thought it right to tell me; and he told me for a single Vote the Burgesses required Twenty Guineas; that is, a Half Vote; and for a Plumper they required Forty Guineas; that that had been usually paid."

"Do you know Mr. Cottam and Mr. Clarke?"

"There are Two Cottams; which do you refer to?"

"Alderman Cottam."

"They are both Aldermen."

"John?"

"Yes, I do."

"And Mr. Clarke?"

"Yes."

"What is his Christian Name?"

"I believe it is William."

"Were the Names of those Persons referred to in your Conversation with James Bailey?"

"I think James Bailey said, if such as those would guarantee the Freemen, the Candidate might have a Chance to be returned."

"Did he state what would be the Consequence, if they were not so guaranteed?"

"I understood that he would have no Chance."

"Did he so state?"

"I will not swear that."

"In consequence of James Bailey's Statement, did you make any Communication to Mr. Maddox the Candidate?"

"I did."

"Did you communicate to him what had passed between you and Bailey?"

"Precisely."

"What did Mr. Maddox do upon that; did he continue a Candidate, or retire?"

"He left the Place very soon after."

"Did you know a Person of the Name of John Thornton?"

"I did; he was an Alderman too."

"Was he a Hatter at East Retford?"

"He was."

"Was that the same Person whom we have heard of, as employed by Mr. Evans?"

"I believe he was employed by Mr. Evans; but I do not know what you have heard of."

"Did John Thornton, the Voter, state to you whether he had been so employed or not?"

"He did."

"What did he say?"

"In the Course of Conversation he repeated what Bailey had said about the Custom of the Borough; and how he had paid them when he was Agent."

"Will you state a little those Particulars which John Thornton said about the Custom of the Borough?"

"John Thornton said that unless they would get some one to guarantee for the Payment of the Money, it was of no Use a Candidate coming forward; I spoke to him about a Candidate coming; I had an Application."

"Will you state a little more particularly what he stated, in what Way such Persons were to guarantee; how was that to be effected; what Arrangement was to be made?"

"He did not say any thing about an Arrangement; he said that Mr. Foljambe had guaranteed the Money previously; that they were perfectly satisfied; but, as I was a Stranger, unless some of the old Burgesses would guarantee the Money, it was of no Use bringing in a Candidate."

"Did he state any thing further with regard to the Burgesses; the Manner in which they were to be treated or had been treated?"

"He mentioned how they were paid."

"Will you state what he said upon that Subject?"

"He said they were paid in Packets; sometimes the Packets were Twenty Guineas each, and sometimes they were Forty Guineas; sometimes Mr. Foljambe's Notes, and sometimes otherwise; and they were delivered at Night."

"You have stated that you knew Alderman. John Cottam?"

"I did."

"Did you know William Clarke?"

"Yes."

"Darker Parker?"

"Yes."

"When you canvassed for Mr. Ogilvie, did any of those Persons assist you in your Canvass?"

"Yes."

"And other People?"

"I think Darker Parker."

"When you, in Company with Darker Parker, were canvassing the Voters, were any Enquiries made by the Freemen respecting Mr. Ogilvie?"

"Several."

"State what those Enquiries were?"

"If any one knew him, and if he was a Man of Property."

Mr. Adam submitted, "That the Witness must state the Names of the Freemen with whom the Conversation took place."

(By a Lord.) "Was the Conversation you had with the Freemen made with the Freemen in a Body, or with them individually?"

"Individually."

"When you are about to speak of a Conversation, mention the Names of the Freemen with whom that Conversation took place."

(Mr. Law.) "Can you specify all the Names of the Persons that so spoke to you?"

"I cannot."

(By a Lord.) "Can you state who the Persons were that made those Enquiries?"

"They were very numerous; most of them did; but I would not speak to any one particularly."

"Were those Enquiries made by the greater Part of the Freemen that you canvassed?"

"By the Majority of them."

"Can you particularize the Name of any One, or more than One?"

"It does not occur to me at this Moment, there are so many of them."

(Mr. Law.) "Will you state in the Course of that public Canvass what those Enquiries were?"

"It was particularly, whether any one knew Mr. Ogilvie, and whether he was a Gentleman; whether there was any one to refer to; I think that was added."

"Did they explain what they meant by the Word Gentleman?"

"Not at that Time."

"In consequence of such Enquiries, did any of the Freemen of the Blue Party accompany you to Mr. Ogilvie?"

"We saw Mr. Ogilvie the next Morning."

"Will you be good enough to state the Names of any of the Freemen who accompanied you when you saw him?"

"Mr. John Cottam was one."

"Was John Thornton with you?"

"He was."

"Darker Parker?"

"Yes."

"And William Clarke?"

"I believe he was another."

"Did you wait upon Mr. Ogilvie in company with those Freemen?"

"I did."

"Was any Proposal made to Mr. Ogilvie in your Presence, and in the Presence of those Freemen?"

"It was."

"What was that Proposal?"

"That Mr. Ogilvie should deposit a Sum of Money in the Hands of Two of those Gentlemen as a Committee; that they should have Power over it for the Purpose of paying the Voters and the Expences."

"Who were the Parties that were proposed as those in whose Hands the Money should be so deposited?"

"As far as my Recollection serves me, I think it was John Cottam and Mr. William Clarke."

"Was any Sum specified to be deposited?"

"Two thousand five hundred Pounds was the Amount."

"What did Mr. Ogilvie say to that Proposition from the Freemen?"

"He said that he should not deposit the Sum of Money in their Hands; that he should like to have it under his own Controul."

"What Proposition did he make?"

"He offered to place, I think it was, £2,000 in the Doncaster Bank or in the Newark Bank, but he was to have the sole Command of it."

"What Observation did Mr. John Cottam make upon that Proposition of Mr. Ogilvie's?"

"That they could not support him, and it was of no Use his proceeding with the Canvass."

"Mr. Ogilvie having declined the Proposition of the Freemen, did he continue or cease to be a Candidate?"

"He ceased to be a Candidate."

"Do you know Mr. George Thornton, the Burgess?"

"I do."

"Was he active for Mr. Wrightson at the Election?"

"He was very active indeed in the Election, and I believe for Wrightson; but I am not sure."

"Some Time after that Election, did you see him at your House in Retford?"

"I did."

"Do you recollect what he said to you?"

"He said it was a Pity I had any thing to do with Sir Henry Wright Wilson, for it was well known he would never pay; and he had no Chance, and he was sorry for him."

"In the Course of your Canvass for Sir Henry Wright Wilson, did you see a Person of the Name of Thomas Booth?"

"I did."

"Was that the Burgess residing at Markham?"

"It was."

"Did you canvass him?"

"I did."

"What Answer did Booth make when you applied to him for Sir Henry; what Observation did he make?"

"I think he asked me a Question, whether I really thought that Sir Henry would pay the Voters."

"What further passed?"

"I believe he remarked, that if he thought he would not, he should not like to vote for him, or he would withhold his Vote."

"Was any thing said about the poorer Burgesses and the Election; any thing on the Subject of Credit?"

"I think he remarked, that he should be sorry if Sir Henry would not pay, because the poor Burgesses expected that Money, and got Credit on the Faith of the Election; or expected their Election."

"Did you know Jonathan Savage?"

"I did."

"Was he a Burgess?"

"He was."

"A short Time previous to the Election, did you canvass him for Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"I did."

"In what Situation was Savage at that Time?"

"He was Servant to The Reverend Edmond Grey."

"Did that Gentleman reside at Tuxford?"

"He did."

"Upon your applying to him for his Vote for Sir Henry, what Answer did Savage give you?"

"I think Savage asked me if Sir Henry would pay the Voters."

"Upon your applying to Savage for his Vote, to the best of your Recollection, what did Savage say?"

"He said he had heard that Sir Henry Wright Wilson would not pay the Voters; and he should not vote for him, because he should not like to lose his Money."

"Did he, in the Course of your Conversation, refer to his own Situation in Life; did he state that he was then in the Service of The Reverend Edmond Grey?"

"I think he said he was only a poor Servant, and he could not afford to lose his Money."

"Did you know Richard Hindley of Southwell, a Burgess?"

"I did."

"Did he promise to vote for Sir Henry?"

"He did."

"Did he make any Remark to you on the Day of the Election?"

"I saw him in the Morning, and he asked me if I thought Sir Henry would pay the Burgesses if he got his Election."

"What further passed?"

"I told him I could not say; that I was not in a Situation to say whether he would or not."

"You were at that Time, I believe, Agent to Sir Henry?"

"I was."

"In consequence of being his Agent, did you give the Answer you have mentioned?"

"I had no Authority whatever to promise it, or to know that it would be paid."

"What did he further say upon your giving him that Answer?"

"I do not recollect; he made some Remark, and walked off."

"Do you know William Baker, a Shoemaker?"

"I did."

"Was he a Burgess?"

"He was."

"Had you frequent Opportunities of seeing him before the Election?"

"Many Times."

"Did he promise his Vote to Sir Henry?"

"Yes, he did."

"Do you recollect any thing that he stated to you on the Subject of his Vote, or of Sir Henry, upon those Occasions?"

"Yes; he was at my Office one Day, and he asked if Sir Henry would pay; and at the same Time he asked me to lend him some Money, to have some on account."

"Did he mention the Name of Mr. Holmes, his Landlord?"

"I am not sure whether he mentioned the Name of any Person; I think he said he wanted to pay his Rent and Taxes."

"Did he state whether they were in arrear or not?"

"That I cannot state."

"Did Baker vote?"

"I am sure I cannot recollect."

"Do you know Edward Ogle, a Tailor at Nottingham?"

"I do."

"Is he a Burgess of Retford?"

"Yes, he is."

"Did you canvass him?"

"I did."

"Did he make any Application to you?"

"He applied to me for some Money."

"Once, or more than once?"

"Several Times."

"On what Account did he state he made the Application?"

"On account of his Poverty, I suppose."

"Did he state in what Way it was to be repaid?"

"No, he did not."

"Did you decline to supply him?"

"I did."

"Do you know whether he voted?"

"That I do not know."

"Do you know William Jackson, the Blacksmith, of Retford?"

"I did."

"Is he a Burgess?"

"Yes."

"Had you Occasion to canvass him on the Day of Election?"

"I saw him on the Morning of the Election."

"Had you previously seen him?"

"Several Times."

"Upon your canvassing him, what did he state to you?"

"Nothing, upon canvassing him."

"On the Morning of the Election?"

"On the Morning of the Election he promised to give a Vote for Sir Henry Wright Wilson; but he would not vote without he was sure to be paid."

(By a Lord.) "Did he vote?"

"He did."

"For Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"He did not."

"What did you say in answer to the Observation about being paid?"

"I told him I could not make him any Promise whatever."

(Mr. Law.) "Did you remonstrate with him upon his having voted against Sir Henry?"

"I did, after the Election."

"What Reason did he assign?"

"He said, if I had promised him his Money he would have voted for Sir Henry."

(By a Lord.) "His Money,"-was that the Phrase?"

"If I had promised him his Money for the voting; I think he added that he had received Twenty Guineas."

(Mr. Law.) "From whom?"

"From the other Party."

"Was the Colour of that Party Mentioned?"

"No."

"Do you know Thomas Leake of Bulwall?"

"Yes."

"Is he a Burgess?"

"He is."

"Did you canvass him at Bulwall?"

"I did."

"For Sir Henry?"

"Yes, I did."

"What Answer did he make to you, when you applied for his Vote?"

"He said he should not vote for Sir Henry."

"Did he give a Reason?"

"He said he was guaranteed his Money, and therefore he cared no more about the Election."

"How did he vote?"

"I believe for Dundas and Wrightson; but I know he did not vote for Sir Henry."

"Do you know William Mellors of Essex Street, in the Strand."

"I do."

"Is he a Burgess?"

"He was."

"Did you canvass him?"

"I did."

"Did he state to you whom he should support?"

"He did."

"Whom did he say?"

"He said he should support the Purples."

"Did he give you his Reason?"

"He said Sir Henry would never pay; he was too mean."

"Was any Mention made of Kirke and Foljambe?"

"I do not at this Moment recollect that there was."

"What further did he say upon the Ground of voting?"

"He mentioned having the Guarantee."

"Who did he say was Guarantee?"

"I do not know who he said was Guarantee; but he said we should have such Men as Mr. Foljambe and Colonel Kirke to come forward, and then they should be sure to have their Money."

"Do you happen to know who Mellors voted for?"

"I believe for Dundas and Wrightson; he did not vote for Sir Henry."

"Do you know George Wass of Kirton?"

"I do."

"Did you canvass him for Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"I did."

"What did Wass say to you, upon your asking him?"

"Every Burgess asked whether they would have their Money; but I cannot exactly say the particular Expression."

"Did he offer his Vote, or refuse it?"

"He promised One Vote; he said he had given his Promise, and he should not go from it."

"Did you know Matthew Wass?"

"I did."

"Was he in Kirton also?"

"He was."

"Was that the Father of George Wass, the other Burgess?"

"I believe he was."

"When you canvassed him for his Vote, what Answer did he make you?"

"He said he should not vote for Sir Henry, because he was sure he would not get his Money."

"Was any thing said about the Principles upon which the Candidates stood?"

"I spoke to him with regard to the Principles, and he said they were nothing to him."

"You tried the Catholic Question with him?"

"Yes."

"And that would not do?"

"It would not do."

"Do you know George Whitlam?"

"I do."

"Is he a Shoemaker?"

"Yes."

"Did he live in London at that Time?"

"He did."

"Was he a Burgess of Retford?"

"He was."

"Did you canvass him?"

"I did not then."

"Did you afterwards?"

"I did that; I met him in London with a Party of London Freemen."

"When you had an Opportunity of seeing him, did he make any Observation with reference to the Election?"

"He asked me if I thought Sir Henry would pay the Burgesses; that they had had a very bad Account of him. I told him I did not know; but if I was a Burgess I should feel quite safe in giving my Vote. I was not Agent then."

"That was before you were Agent to Sir Henry?"

"Some Time."

"Did he vote after you had so spoken to him?"

"He promised his Vote; but I am not quite certain whether he did or not."

"Did you know Thomas Newborn?"

"Yes, I did."

"Did he come to you previous to the Election?"

"He did."

"What did he propose to you?"

"He did not propose any thing; he said, he hoped Sir Henry would pay, because he depended to be set up in Business with the Money."

"What Answer did you make to him when he expressed that Anxiety?"

"I was Agent then, and therefore I should have objected at once."

"Do you know William Burton, a Coal Merchant, of Spital Hill, Retford?"

"Yes."

"Is he a Burgess?"

"He is."

"Do you remember having some Conversation with him on the Subject of Sir Henry going on with his Election?"

"I recollect something said after the Election; he said Sir Henry was never like to succeed, because he knew he would not pay."

"Did you know John Crooks, a Blacksmith, of Talworth?"

"Yes."

"Have you had several Occasions to see him?"

"Several, on the Subject of the Election."

"Did you happen to call on him in January of the Year 1826?"

"I would not say the precise Month; but I called on him in 1826, before the Election."

"Did you know a Mr. William Bower?"

"I did."

"Was William Bower with Crooks at the Time he called?"

"Mr. Bower went with me to Crooks, to persuade him to promise his Vote."

"Did he promise, or refuse his Promise?"

"He would not promise."

"Did he assign any Reason?"

"The same Reason as others; that he was afraid he would not get his Money."

"Was any thing said on the Subject of One of his Votes?"

"I think he remarked, he had been to see Mr. Foljambe, and he should not alter; that he would consider about it; but that he should like to know whether he should get his Money or not."

"Did he say any thing further about Mr. Foljambe or Colonel Kirke?"

"He said he had been to Mr. Foljambe, and I think he said Mr. Foljambe was going to do something for him."

"Did William Bower say any thing to him to encourage him?"

"Yes; he said he need not be afraid of his Money."

"Upon Bower saying he need not be afraid of his Money, what did the Voter say?"

"He still withheld his Vote; he would not promise."

"When was it that you were appointed Agent, in the Year 1826; in what Month?"

"I think it was May."

"Did you again go to Crooks's after that?"

"I did."

"Was Bower with you?"

"It was at that Time that Bower went with me."

"Do you know Alderman Meekly?"

"I do."

"Did Meekly go, upon any Occasion, with you to him?"

"A long Time previous to my being Agent, he did."

"Do you recollect any thing that passed between Crooks and you, when either Meekly or Bower were present?"

"The Conversation was precisely the same; as to his being paid his Money."

"Do you mean the same Substance, or the same Words?"

"The same Substance; I would not speak to Words, it is such a Distance of Time."

"Was any thing more stated by him, with reference to any thing previous to the Election?"

"Nothing further than that he wished to be guaranteed his Money, and protested he would not vote without."

"Did you know John Quibell, a Shoemaker, of London?"

"Yes."

"Did you canvass him for Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"I did."

"Did Quibell say whether he would vote or not?"

"He promised his Vote."

"Did he give you a Reason why he would vote?"

"Some of the other Freemen, I believe, had been speaking to him."

"Did he say so?"

"He did not."

"Did you know George Cocking?"

"Yes."

"Was he a Burgess residing in London?"

"He was."

"Were you in London in the latter Part of January 1826?"

"I believe that was the Time."

"Did he promise his Vote?"

"He did."

"Did he make any Application to you on the Subject of it?"

"Not on the Subject of his Vote, at that Time."

"Tell us what Application he made; did you advance him any thing?"

"He applied to me for a Loan of Money."

"Did you advance him any?"

"I did."

"How much?"

"Five Pounds."

"How did he say he would repay you?"

"I was to be repaid out of his Election Money."

"Benjamin Scott; did you know him?"

"I did."

"Did he call upon you at Retford?"

"He called upon me several Times."

"You saw him before the Election?"

"I did."

"Did he apply to you then for any thing?"

"Yes; he asked me for a Loan of Money."

"Tell us in what Terms he asked for it?"

"He said he wanted some Money; he would be very much obliged to me if I would let him have a little; Ten Pounds or so."

"Was any Mention made of Mr. Cottam or Mr. Clarke at that Time?"

"I think he said he would vote for Sir Henry if I would guarantee that he should have his Money."

"How were you to be repaid the Sum of Ten Pounds, which he proposed that you should advance him?"

"Out of the Vote which he was to give for Sir Henry."

"Did he say so?"

"Positively."

"Did you refuse his Application?"

"I did."

"Who did he vote for?"

"Dundas and Wrightson."

"Did you know William Clayton of Worsop, Shoemaker?"

"I did."

"Did you canvass William Clayton?"

"Yes, I did."

"What did he state to you?"

"He asked if he should be paid his Money; if there was any body that would guarantee."

"Were you at that Time Agent?"

"I was not."

"What said you?"

"I said I had no Doubt he would be paid."

"Did you make any Representation to him respecting the Circumstances of Sir Henry?"

"I told him he had Plenty of Money to pay with; and I had no Doubt he would pay."

"Did you see Clayton again after that?"

"I think I did."

"Did you refer to the former Conversation you had had with him on the Subject of the Vote?"

"No, I did not; he merely asked the Question about the Money being paid."

"What further did he say about it?"

"I cannot exactly at this Moment recollect."

"Did he ultimately refuse or promise his Vote?"

"He refused to give his Vote."

"Did he assign a Reason?"

"Because he could not be guaranteed."

"Whom did he vote for?"

"I believe Dundas and Wrightson."

"Do you know Robert Cattliff of Southwell?"

"Yes, I know him; but I know nothing particular about him."

"Did you canvass William Freeman of Bautry, a Shoemaker?"

"I did."

"Did he agree to vote for Sir Henry, or refuse?"

"He refused."

"What Reason did he assign?"

"He said that the Voters would never get any thing if they supported him, and therefore he should not support such a Man."

"Did you make any Remark upon his talking of the Voters getting Money?"

"I said there was no Doubt they would have what had been customary before."

"Was that before you were appointed the Agent?"

"Some Time."

"Did you see Freeman again in the Month of June?"

"Yes, I believe I did, immediately after I was appointed Agent."

"Did you apply to him for his Vote again?"

"I did."

"What Answer did he give you then?"

"He refused to give it."

"Did he tell you why?"

"He said he had heard enough of Sir Henry now."

"Do you know Francis Drake?"

"I do."

"Was he a Burgess?"

"Yes."

"Had you any Conversation with him on the Subject of the Election, after it was over?"

"I had, some Time after."

"Was that at the Time the Proceedings were beginning in Parliament?"

"At that Time."

"Did you then make any Remark to him?"

"I asked him since about the Election. I was then gathering Evidence."

"What did you say?"

"I told him it was a Pity he had offended his Uncle by not giving Sir Henry the Vote; and he said he should have promised him Fifty Pounds."

"Who should have?"

"He said he should have given him Fifty Pounds, and that he would have voted as he had liked."

"How did he vote?"

"For Dundas and Wrightson."

"Do you know William Swail?"

"I do."

"Was he a Fishmonger?"

"He was."

"And a Burgess?"

"Yes."

"Did you canvass him?"

"I did."

"When you canvassed him, what Observation did he make?"

"He was in my House one Morning, and we were talking about the Election; and he said Sir Henry had no Chance he was quite sure, for he knew he would not pay them any thing."

"Who did he vote for?"

"Dundas and Wrightson, I believe."

"Do you know Thomas Burton junior, the Baker, at East Retford?"

"I do."

"Was he a Burgess?"

"Yes."

"Did you canvass him for Sir Henry?"

"Yes."

"What said he?"

"He would not promise his Vote, because he would not get his Money."

"Did he say so?"

"He did say so, positively."

"Who did he vote for?"

"I believe Dundas and Wrightson."

"Do you know Richard Undy?"

"Yes, I do."

"Did you see Richard Undy and Robert Charlton of Ashton?"

"I did."

"Where did you see them?"

"At Mr. Undy's House."

"Did Charlton say any thing in the Presence of the other Man?"

"He did."

"What did he say?"

"He said that if I would give him the same that he was to have for his other Vote, he would vote for Sir Henry."

"Did you ask him what that was?"

"I asked him what that was."

"What did he say?"

"He said Twenty-five Pounds, and Three Pounds for his Expences."

"Did he make any Proposal respecting Undy?"

"He said he would take Undy's Note for the Money."

"Did you inform him you were Agent?"

"I did; I told him I could not do any thing of the sort as Agent for Sir Henry Wright Wilson; and I came away."

"Before you came away, what further Observation did he make when you declined doing any thing with respect to his Vote; do you remember any particular Expression he used?"

"I cannot distinctly say."

"Did you see him again afterwards, that Day?"

"I saw him about an Hour that same Evening."

"When you saw him afterwards, did he promise his Vote, or not?"

"He promised his Vote for Sir Henry."

"Did you advance him any Money?"

"I paid him some Money on account of his Expences."

"How much?"

"Five Guineas."

"After the Election, did he make any Application to you; did he state any thing respecting Mr. Crompton?"

"Yes; I saw him after the Election, and he said he had received a Letter from Mr. Crompton; he was very poor, and he wrote to him, and he received a Letter from him, inclosing Ten Pounds, and wishing him to vote for Dundas."

"Did he tell you what he did in consequence of Mr. Crompton's Letter and the Ten Pound Note?"

"I do not recollect."

"Did he tell you whether he answered the Letter or not?"

"I do not recollect it at all; I believe not."

"Do you know Robert Rushby of Norbridge?"

"I do."

"Is he a Burgess?"

"He is."

"Do you recollect seeing him at Dennett's, the White Hart Inn at Retford?"

"I did."

"Did he say any thing to you there?"

"He asked if Sir Henry would pay the Burgesses."

"What said you?"

"I told him I could not answer it."

"Did you make use of any Expression in particular to him that you remember?"

"I cannot recollect any thing."

"Were you Agent at that Time?"

"I was."

"Did you canvass Thomas Kempsall, a Shopkeeper at Markham?"

"I did."

"Did he decline, or promise his Vote?"

"He would not promise his Vote."

"Did he give his Reason?"

"He asked if I thought Sir Henry would pay; that he had heard a very bad Character of him, that he would not pay."

"Who did he vote for?"

"I think he gave his Vote for Sir Henry, but I am not certain."

"Did you know Thomas Evans, a Shoemaker at Mansfield?"

"I did."

"Was he a Burgess?"

"He was."

"Did he promise Sir Henry a Vote?"

"I believe he did."

"For whom did he vote?"

"For Dundas and Wrightson."

"Did he give you any Reason for having done so afterwards?"

"He did; I saw him some Time after the Election."

"What did he say to you?"

"He said it was not likely he should give Sir Henry a Vote when he would not get any thing for his Election."

"Did he state whether he had got any Money or not?"

"He said he had not got paid, and that that was Sir Henry's Fault, I believe."

"Did you know James Barker of Manchester?"

"I did."

"A Burgess?"

"Yes."

"Did he make any Application to you after the Election?"

"He did, for some Money."

"Did he say any thing besides that; did he say any thing about Sir Henry Wilson's Return, or losing it?"

"He said he was sorry Sir Henry had lost the Election, because he believed he would have paid."

"Previous to your going to Mr. Ogilvie, had you any Conversation with John Thornton, and Darker Parker, and William Clarke, who you say accompanied you?"

"Yes."

"What was stated in that Conversation?"

"It was determined to call upon Mr. Ogilvie, either to deposit a Sum of Money, or else not to take any Notice of him."

"Was that settled before you started?"

"It was."

Cross-examined by Mr. Adam.

"You were Sir Henry Wilson's Agent?"

"I was."

"I think you say in May 1826?"

"That was the Time."

"Had you canvassed for him before?"

"I had."

"When did you first canvass for him?"

"Very soon after his coming to Retford."

"When did he come to Retford?"

"I am sure I cannot distinctly say now; some short Time previously, Three or Four Months."

"Do not you remember when you first canvassed for him?"

"I do not."

"How came you to canvass for him?"

"I was a Member of the Blue Club, and several of the Burgesses wished me to interfere for them; we had no Candidate for a long Time, and the Burgesses looked to me to get them a Candidate."

"You had an Interest of your own in Retford, had you?"

"No further than a Friendship with some of the Burgesses."

"You say the Burgesses looked to you; how did that happen?"

"Because, in the first instance, Mr. Maddox wrote, to desire that I would be his Agent; and after that, having been concerned with them respecting their Votes, and speaking to Mr. Maddox about paying the Money."

"Maddox refused to pay the Money, did not he?"

"He did not refuse, but he soon left the Place."

"Did Mr. Maddox apply to you in the first place?"

"He applied to Mr. Ludlam."

"Who did he apply to next?"

"Mr. Brown."

"Who next?"

"Then, I heard, Mr. Marshall."

"Who did he apply to next?"

"It was said he applied to all the People in the Place."

"He applied to you last, did not he?"

"He did not apply to me at all."

"How did you happen to be his Agent?"

"I was residing in Retford with Mr. Ludlam; I was arranging a Partnership with Mr. Ludlam."

"Then, after Mr. Maddox had tried all the Attornies, he came to a Gentleman that was arranging a Partnership with Mr. Ludlam?"

"I was informed that he came to Mr. Ludlam in the first instance."

"Did he come to you?"

"He did not."

"Did you go to him?"

"I did."

"You went to offer your Services?"

"I did not go to offer my Services; I went to state what Bailey had said to me about the Payment of the Money; nothing further than the Letter which he had written."

"I want to know when it was that you first canvassed for Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"It was very shortly after I came to Retford."

"Was it with his Knowledge and Concurrence?"

"By no means."

"I understood you to say that, when you canvassed first for him, you told the Burgesses there was no doubt he would pay?"

"I believed there was not, on account of his having so much Money."

"Had you any Authority from Sir Henry Wilson to say that he would pay?"

"Not the least."

"How came you to say that Sir Henry Wilson would pay Bribery Money to the Voters?"

"Because I was satisfied that if Sir Henry did not pay he would not come again."

"Therefore you took upon yourself to say that Sir Henry would commit Bribery?"

"I believed they would be paid."

"Did not you tell the Burgesses you had no doubt they would be paid by Sir Henry Wilson?"

"I did."

"Did you not mean by that to tell them they would receive Election Money from Sir Henry Wilson, in consideration for their Votes?"

"Certainly."

"Did you not then take upon yourself to say that Sir Henry Wilson would bribe them?"

"It comes to that."

"You had no Authority then for stating that a Gentleman of Rank and Character would commit Bribery, but yet you did so?"

"Exactly."

"Did you ever take the Name of any other Gentlemen in the same Way, and say that they would commit Bribery, without their Authority?"

"Never; because I never was concerned in an Election in the same Way."

"If you then had been concerned in another Election, would you have done it?"

Mr. Law objected to the Question.

"I should, if the Custom of the Place had been the same to what Retford is."

"Then you would have no Scruple in taking upon yourself to say, that a Gentleman of Honor and Character would commit Bribery, without having his Authority to do it?"

"I knew it would be very difficult for him to be returned in Retford without doing it."

The Question was repeated.

"If it was for a Place the same as East Retford, I should; because I knew he would have no Chance to be returned without it."

"Had you ever heard any thing of Sir Henry Wright Wilson, when you took this upon yourself; did you know him at all?"

"I had heard that he was very rich."

"Then you had no personal Communication with him at all?"

"Yes; I dined with him in London; but no Communication to authorize me to say that he would pay the Electors."

"Any Conversation about the Election at all?"

"It was an Election Dinner."

"Were you a Freeman?"

"I was not."

"Where was that Dinner?"

"At the Grecian Coffee House."

"Who attended it?"

"Several of the Freemen."

"Who invited you?"

"Mr. Yatman."

"Sir Henry's Solicitor?"

"Yes."

"How many were there, do you think?"

"I should think about Ten or Twelve."

"Was it at Sir Henry's Expence?"

"It was, I believe."

"It was not at yours?"

"It was not at mine."

"Were there Ten or Twelve Freemen?"

"I am not sure whether there were so many Freemen; I think there were not more than Seven."

"Can you recollect the Seven?"

"There was old Mr. Mellors."

"Is he alive or dead?"

"I have heard that he is dead. There was George Cocking, Robert Hudson. I am sure I forget the Names; I know all that were in the Blue Interest were there."

"You were resident in London?"

"Yes; and Mr. Mellors was not in the Blue Interest; but he was there, and John Quibell was there."

"How long had you been residing in Retford at the Time you took upon yourself to canvass for Sir Henry Wilson?"

"A very few Months."

"Had you been admitted an Attorney when you came to Retford?"

"I was not; that was in June, and I was admitted in November."

"You came to Retford in June 1825?"

"I think it was in July."

"Where had you been residing before you came to Retford?"

"In London."

"Under Articles?"

"Not under Articles in London. I was in an Office in London; in Graham and Goldsworthy's."

"Was Messieurs Graham and Goldsworthy's Practice principally in the Insolvent Court?"

"A great deal of it was."

"Was their Practice principally in the Insolvent Court?"

"They had as much other Practice as they had in the Insolvent Court."

"It was equally divided between the Insolvent Court and other Branches?"

"I should think it was, as nearly as possible; they had a good deal of Agency."

"Had they Agency from Yorkshire at all?"

"Some of it."

"Where did you serve your Time?"

"In York."

"With whom did you serve your Time?"

"With Mr. Smithson."

"Did you Serve all your Time with Mr. Smithson?"

"I did."

"Who were you originally articled to?"

"To Mr. Smithson."

"How long did you serve?"

"I was with him between Four and Five Years."

"When did you go to Mr. Smithson?"

"When I was very young indeed; almost a Child; I was not above Eleven Years old."

"I want the Year?"

"I cannot recollect."

"Do not you recollect the Year when you went into your Articles, especially if you were so very young?"

"I do not at this Moment."

"How came you to quit Mr. Smithson?"

"In consequence of a young Man of the Name of Richardson being there; and there was a great deal of Jealousy."

"Upon whose Part was the Jealousy?"

"It was on my Part, because I considered that there was not the same Attention paid to me that there ought to be."

"Richardson was the Favourite, was he?"

"Yes; his Mother was a Widow."

"He was preferred to you?"

"He was. Mrs. Richardson was a Widow."

"Mr. Richardson is an Attorney at York now, I believe?"

"He is."

"In considerable Practice?"

"Very respectable Practice."

"Had Mr. Smithson and you any Cause of Difference?"

"Not that I know of; except that Unpleasantness about Richardson."

"What was that Unpleasantness about?"

"He went Journies, and attended to Business that I thought I had a Right to attend to."

"And you complained to Mr. Smithson?"

"Several Times."

"Had Richardson any Charge of any Accounts?"

"Not that I know of."

"Had Mr. Smithson and you any Difference about an Account?"

"Never a Word in my Life."

"Then I wish you to tell me why he parted with you?"

"I parted with him in consequence of the Manner in which I was treated."

"Do you mean to say that you left the Person with whom you were articled in consequence of his allowing another Clerk to do Business that you thought you were entitled to do?"

"I mean to say that I never attended the Office with any Pleasure at all."

"I want to know why you parted with Mr. Smithson; Mr. Smithson is living, I believe?"

"He is."

"In York?"

"He is. My Father had a great Objection to my continuing, because Mr. Smithson had a kept Mistress, and she was never out of the Office for an Hour in the Evening."

"Was that Part of the Reason for leaving Mr. Smithson?"

"The Arrangement was made between my Father and Mr. Smithson."

"Was not that partly the Reason for your quitting Mr. Smithson, as far as you were concerned?"

"It was my Father's particular Objection."

"Was this a Part of the Reason operating upon your Mind?"

"I frequently complained to my Father about it."

"Then it was not solely upon Richardson being preferred?"

"Not solely."

"What Situation of Life is your Father in?"

"My Father was a Chemist in York, and he gave up to my Brother."

"Did he carry on any other Business?"

"Not at that Time."

(By a Lord.) "How long had this Lady lived with Mr. Smithson?"

"She had a large Family."

"What Relation was Mr. Smithson to her?"

"None."

(Mr. Adam.) "Did your Father know of the Lady that lived with Mr. Smithson at the Time you went there?"

"She came there; she did not live there."

"Did your Father know of that immoral Connection when you went to Mr. Smithson?"

"I did not know of it when I went."

"How long was it after you knew it before you were taken away?"

"Some Time."

"Some Years?"

"No."

"How long?"

"Eight or Ten Months."

"You say your Father was a Chemist; what else was he?"

"Nothing else."

"When did he cease to be a Chemist?"

"About Eight or Nine Years ago."

"When did you quit Mr. Smithson?"

"Some Time previous to that."

"Then your Father was a Chemist, and nothing else, during the whole Time you lived at Smithson's?"

"He was."

"Who did you go to after you left Smithson?"

"I served the Remainder of the Articles out with my Brother."

"You went immediately from Smithson to your Brother?"

"Not immediately."

"Where did you go to next?"

"I was staying with my Father."

"You did not go to any other Attorney's Office?"

"I did not."

"Do you know a Gentleman of the Name of Garland?"

"Yes; I beg your Pardon; I went to him."

"When did you go to Mr. Garland's?"

"A few Months after I left Mr. Smithson."

"For how many Months?"

"About a Year and a Half."

"And you had totally forgotten that, when you said that you went at once from Mr. Smithson's to your Father's, and then to your Brother's?"

"I really had."

"Did you not tell me that you went from Mr. Smithson to your Father's, and from your Father's you went to your Brother's, where you served out the rest of your Time?"

"I did not intend to say so."

"Then you had totally forgotten, that in the Interval between your Father and your Brother you had lived a Year and a Half with Mr. Garland?"

"I did."

"Upon your solemn Oath?"

"Upon my solemn Oath, as I am standing here."

"Did any thing occur to you while you were living with Mr. Garland?"

"Nothing at all."

"How did you happen to quit Mr. Garland?"

"It was in consequence of not getting very good Connections."

"Upon whose Part?"

"Upon my own Part."

"You did not form very good Connections?"

"I did not."

"You had totally forgotten that?"

"Indeed I had."

"What were those Connections you had formed?"

"It was a young Girl."

"Then did you, who were so extremely offended at Mr. Smithson's Conduct, form this Connection yourself afterwards?"

"It was in consequence of that that I imbibed those Habits; I was only a Child at that Time."

"At what Age were you at that Time?"

"I suppose I was about Seventeen or Eighteen."

"Then, having formed those Habits while you were at Mr. Garland's, how came you to quit Mr. Garland?"

"It was in consequence of forming that Habit, and not being able to get better of it, that my Father took me away, and no other Reason; Mr. Garland wrote, I believe, to my Father, to advise it."

"Do you mean to swear that your Reason for quitting Mr. Garland's was your having formed this Connection with a young Girl?"

"It was."

"And nothing else?"

"Not to my Knowledge."

"Is Garland alive?"

"He is not."

"What Clerks had Garland in his Office at that Time?"

"He had one hired Writer."

"What was his Name?"

"I have forgotten that."

"Had he not an Articled Clerk?"

"He had not; his Son was in the Office afterwards."

"Is his Son alive?"

"I do not know."

"What is his Christian Name?"

"Richard."

"Was he breeding to the Law?"

"He was."

"Do you know whether he is practising the Profession now?"

"I do not."

"Had you and Mr. Garland the Father no Difference about Money?"

"Not a Word."

"Nor about Accounts?"

"Never."

"And you swear that the Reason you left Garland was that you had formed this Connection with a young Woman?"

"Entirely so."

"What was your Father at the Time you were with Garland?"

"He then kept a Private Lunatic Asylum, which he has now; a very large Establishment."

"Do you recollect any Cause being tried about a Will, at York?"

"I do."

"That was made by a Person in your Father's Custody?"

"He was not; I remember the Cause being tried at York."

"Do you remember the Testator's Name?"

"It was very short."

"Have you forgotten the Name too?"

"I have. A Man of the Name of Smith was one of the Parties."

"You do not remember the Testator's Name?"

"I do not."

"You were the attesting Witness to the Will?"

"I was."

"While you were a Clerk in Mr. Garland's Office?"

"No."

"Where then?"

"I was Clerk to my Brother."

"Who made the Will?"

"I did."

"Was it made in your Brother's Office?"

"It was not made in my Brother's Office; the Instructions were taken for it there."

"Was your Brother employed as the Attorney to prepare the Will?"

"My Brother was not at Home at the Time; and the Testator called upon me at Scarborough, when my Brother was at York."

"Did he give you Instructions for his Will?"

"He did."

"Had you known him before?"

"He was known to the Family; the Name was Flint."

"Flint called upon you; he had known your Family, had he?"

"Yes."

"Do you mean your Father, the Chemist?"

"Yes."

"He called upon you at Scarborough, to make his Will?"

"He did."

"Did you prepare it there?"

"I did not."

"Where was it prepared?"

"The Instructions were taken at Scarborough, and it was signed at my Father's House at Dunnington."

"Do you mean in the Lunatic Asylum?"

"It is not a Lunatic Asylum; it is a Private House."

"A Private House for the Reception of Lunatic Patients?"

"It was not in the Part for the Reception of Patients."

"Who was the other attesting Witness?"

"One was a Servant of my Father's, and one a Gardener."

"What was the Servant's Name?"

"Simeon Harris."

"Was not he one of the Keepers in your Father's Asylum?"

"He was not; he cleaned Shoes and worked in the Yard, because he was out of Employment; he was formerly an Apprentice of my Father's."

"Will you swear that it was not Part of his Employment to attend to the Lunatic Patients?"

"I cannot swear that it was not; but I believe that it was not."

"Will you undertake to swear that it was not?"

"That I will not do, because I was not at Home much at that Time."

"Do you recollect the Man's own Examination at York?"

"Perfectly."

"Do you recollect the Fact of his having been examined at York?"

"I do."

(By a Lord.) "Where you present at the Time?"

"I was."

(Mr. Adam.) "Was it before your own Examination, or after?"

"I think, after."

"Will you now say that Harris was not employed as a Keeper in the Lunatic Asylum?"

"I certainly say that I believe he was not."

"Will you swear that he was not?"

"I will not."

"Is Harris alive?"

"I expect so."

"When did you see him last?"

"Some Months ago."

"Where was he living then?"

"I believe he is a Bricklayer, but I do not know."

"Tell me what was the Name of the Gardener who was the attesting Witness?"

"Stephen Gray."

(By a Lord.) "Do you mean to swear that Mr. Flint, the Testator, had never been in your Father's House, and under his Care?"

"Never."

(Mr. Adam.) "What Relation was Gray to your Father?"

"None."

"What Connection was he of your Brother's?"

"My Brother married his Daughter."

"Your Brother the Attorney?"

"Yes."

"Where was the Will prepared?"

"The Will was prepared at my Father's House."

"At the Asylum?"

"Yes."

"Then Gray was the Father-in-Law of your Brother?"

"Yes."

"And you prepared the Will?"

"Yes."

"And that Will, so prepared, was attested by you, by Harris, and by Gray?"

"Yes."

"Was your Brother there at the Time of the Execution?"

"He was."

"Did he attest the Execution?"

"He did not."

"Is not it usual for the Attorney that prepares the Will to attest the Execution?"

"It is usual, and very often done."

"Do you know why it was not done upon this Occasion?"

"There was no particular Reason, that I know of."

"What was the Question that was tried at York?"

"The Question was tried whether he was under undue Influence."

"Was the Will attempted to be set aside upon the Ground that he was under undue Influence?"

"Yes."

"Was the Will set aside?"

"It was."

"Was there a new Trial moved for?"

"It was."

"Who tried the Cause the first Time?"

"Mr. Justice Bayley."

"Was it tried a second Time?"

"It was."

"Before what Learned Judge?"

"Mr. Justice Allan Park."

"Was the Verdict the same Way?"

"It was."

"Then is it to be understood that the Will has been twice pronounced to be void because it had been executed under undue Influence?"

"That was the Statement that was made, but it certainly was not the Fact."

"Do you mean to state to their Lordships that the Sanity of Flint was not in question upon that Occasion?"

"It was upon that it rested; and it was in consequence of a Statement having been made of his Eccentricities."

"I put it to you whether the first Question was not as to his Sanity?"

"Certainly."

"And the second, whether Advantage had not been taken of that Insanity at your Father's House?"

"It was never known to my Father that he ever had been insane?"

"I ask you whether that was not the Question?"

"It was the Question."

"Did not the Jury twice over find the Affirmative upon both of those Issues."

"Yes."

"Was not Mr. Garland present in Court at that Time?"

"I did not see him."

"Was not he examined and cross-examined?"

"Not to my Knowledge."

"Was he not examined as to something that had taken place between you and Garland?"

"No."

"Will you swear that no Cross-examination took place of you with reference to Mr. Garland?"

"Positively not, so far as my Recollection serves me."

"Rub up your Recollection."

"I should be glad to say every thing that I know."

"To the best of your Recollection?"

"I do not recollect it."

"You will not swear whether you were not crossexamined as to Mr. Garland?"

"No."

"And Mr. Smithson too?"

"As far as my Recollection serves, I believe not."

"Will you swear that you were asked no Questions about Mr. Garland?"

"I believe that I was not."

"You will not swear it?"

"I should not like to swear it, because I would not be so very certain; it was at the Time the Election was going on."

"The Imputation was, that this Will had been improperly procured by your Father?"

"It was; but that was not the Case."

"You were examined as a Witness?"

"I was."

"Were you not a Witness yourself, and were you not cross-examined as to Transactions between you and Smithson, and also Garland?"

"It might be; but I do not know any thing respecting that."

"Were not you told at the Time that Mr. Smithson and Mr. Garland were in the Court at York, and were you not cautioned?"

"That I cannot recollect."

"Could you have forgotten it if it had taken place?"

"I think I should not have forgotten it."

"And you have not the slightest Recollection of it?"

"I have not."

"You will not swear whether it took place or not?"

"I cannot."

"But in a Question which depended upon the Propriety of Conduct of yourself and your Family, you have no Recollection whether that took place?"

"The Particulars to which I was mainly examined were with reference to the Manner in which Mr. Flint came to me at Scarborough, and spoke about the Will, and to prove whether it had been got up improperly, or whether it was accidentally that he called on me at Scarborough; the Reason he called upon me was, that he had been robbed, and some Person had told him that the Man had come to Scarborough; and then he called upon me."

(By a Lord.) "Did you reside at Scarborough?"

"I did at that Time."

"Did you carry on Business?"

"I was with my Brother, and he was then living at Scarborough."

"Had you known Flint before?"

"I had not known him before that."

"Had you known that he had been in a Lunatic Asylum?"

"No."

"Did you not know that he had been deranged?"

"Never."

(Mr. Adam.) "You had heard that he had been very eccentric?"

"I knew that he was eccentric, having Race Horses and those kind of Things, and riding them himself; that he rode Races at Fairs, and such like Things."

"What Age was Flint?"

"Between Seventy and Eighty, I believe."

"Do you recollect Flint having been examined as a Witness at any Time?"

"I believe he was examined on a Prosecution."

(By a Lord.) "Were you present?"

"I was not."

(Mr. Adam.) "But you knew that he was eccentric, and you knew these Circumstances, and he applied to you; and you, being an Attorney's Clerk, took those Instructions?"

"He applied to me in consequence of knowing my Father so well."

"Had he been very intimate with your Father?"

"He had a Sister that used to be very much with my Father."

"You did not know him yourself?"

"I did not."

"Could he have been very intimate with your Father, you not knowing him?"

"He had removed."

"Then your Father's Intimacy had been some Time before?"

"Yes."

"And it had not been kept up?"

"Yes, it had been kept up; he was not a Man equal with my Father, and it was not visiting; but he used to come to my Father's Shop to buy Medicine for his Horses; and I dare say he was there very often."

"And therefore you conclude that he came to you to prepare his Will?"

"He did; he said so."

"Did you come from your Brother to Retford?"

"No; I went to London, to Messieurs Graham and Goldsworthy."

"Had you any Connection with Retford when you went there?"

"Not the least, except having a Brother living about Five Miles from there."

"Did you take written Instructions from Mr. Flint, at Scarborough?"

"Yes."

"Were they produced at the Trial?"

"They were not."

"How did that happen?"

"They were mislaid or lost; they were destroyed."

"Was that the Representation you made at York?"

"I should say they had been destroyed most certainly; or else they would have been produced."

"Was the Representation you made at York, as to those written Instructions, that they were lost or mislaid?"

"I should say exactly what was the Fact."

"I am asking you what your Representation at York was?"

"I should say they were destroyed."

(By a Lord.) "The Question is what you stated at York?"

"I believe I stated that the Instructions were destroyed."

"Will you swear that you did?"

"It is very difficult to make a Statement of that sort, because I do not exactly recollect; that was the Fact."

(Mr. Adam.) "How long ago was the Trial?"

"About Three Years ago."

"In 1826?"

"Yes."

"Is it so long ago that you cannot recollect it?"

"I have had nothing to bring it back to my Recollection."

(By a Lord.) "Were they destroyed?"

"They were destroyed."

"Can you hesitate at all then as to what Answer you gave at York?"

"I should not hesitate about what Answer I gave, because I feel satisfied that that was the Evidence I gave."

(Mr. Adam.) "Will you swear that you did say so at York?"

"I feel quite impressed with that, because I should say what was the Truth; but I do not positively recollect what took place."

"Do not you distinctly recollect the Question being put to you?"

"I do very well."

"What was your Answer?"

"My Answer would be that they were destroyed."

"Was it so?"

The Witness hesitated.

(By a Lord.) "You recollect that Question being put to you, and knowing at the Time that they were destroyed, can you hesitate what Answer you gave to the Question?"

"I have no doubt that I said they were destroyed."

"Will you swear that you said in Effect and Substance that they were destroyed?"

"That I will."

(Mr. Adam.) "Then I understand you to say that you swear that you stated at York that there had been written Instructions, and that those written Instructions were destroyed?"

"Certainly."

"You swear that?"

"I swear that that is my Belief."

"Will you swear that you said so?"

"That was the Fact, and therefore I must have said so in Substance and Effect; and I did say so."

"Will you swear that the Question was asked of you, whether there were written Instructions, and that you then said that they were destroyed?"

"Those Words, or to the same Effect, I did."

"Then you will swear that you said that at York, will you?"

"Yes, I will."

"You will swear to that, will you?"

"I will swear that in Substance and Effect I did."

"Do not you remember that it was one of the Points in the Case, whether there had been written Instructions or not?"

"It was one of the Points in the Case that they were not produced, I believe."

"Do not you remember that it was one of the Points in the Case, that the Will was prepared without written Instructions?"

"The Will was not prepared from Instructions, because when I left Scarborough I was going to York; and I told Flint that I would see him there; and those Instructions were not with me when the Will was prepared; it was prepared from the same Words, as far as my Recollection serves me; but the Instructions I received from Flint were destroyed, and could not be produced."

"Do not you remember that it was one of the Points of the Case, that there were no written Instructions?"

"Certainly not."

"Was it not a Question at York, whether the Will was prepared from written Instructions or not?"

"Certainly it was."

"Had you any Connection at Retford, when you went there?"

"Yes; I had a Brother at Tuxford."

"Had you a Connection at Retford?"

"Yes; I was going into Partnership with Mr. Ludlam."

"Had you any Connection with Retford before that?"

"No, I had not."

"Where did Ludlam live?"

"He lived both at Tuxford and at Retford; he had Two Offices."

"How soon did you become a Member of the Blue Club?"

"About a Month or Six Weeks after its Formation."

"How long was that after you had gone to Retford?"

"That was very shortly after I went to Retford."

"Did you found the Blue Club yourself?"

"No, I did not."

"Did you suggest it?"

"Not the least; I had no Hand in forming it at all; and I did not join it 'till some Time afterwards."

"You have told us of a Conversation that James Bailey had with you, about Plumpers, and so on; who were present at that Conversation?"

"There was no one present."

"Not even the Clerk?"

"I believe the Clerk was in the other Office."

"Do you think the Clerk could hear in one Office what passed in the other?"

"I should think the Clerk could very likely recollect Bailey's coming at that Time."

"What is the Clerk's Name?"

The Witness hesitated.

"Have you forgotten the Clerk's Name; you remember the Conversation?"

"This has been called to me so often; it has been called to me in consequence of having to get up the Evidence before the House of Commons; his Name was Thomas Gauntley; I had forgotten whether it was Thomas or George."

"Then you recollect this Conversation about Plumpers, though you do not remember the Examination at York, or the Christian Name of the Clerk?"

"The Clerk then was William Pratt."

"Were they both Clerks at that Time?"

"No; it was William Pratt at that Time; Thomas Gauntley came afterwards."

"After Bailey had made this Statement to you, did you apply to John Cottam and to William Clarke?"

"Not at that Time; some Time afterwards."

"How long afterwards was that?"

"That was at the Time when Mr. Ogilvie came over."

"How long after?"

"Four or Five Months."

"Then it was Four or Five Months after Bailey told you of this Custom of the Town, before you communicated with Cottam or with Clarke?"

"Not upon that Subject; I did not communicate with either Cottam or Clarke upon that Subject at that Time; upon the Subject of what Mr. Bailey said to me."

"Cottam and Clarke, I understood you to say, were referred to by James Bailey?"

"It was as to getting such Men as Cottam and Clarke to guarantee the Freemen."

"Did you ever apply to them?"

"No."

"Did you ever apply to any body else as to the Usage of the Town?"

"I did not, except to Ogilvie."

"John Cottam I think it was?"

"Yes."

"Have you ever had any Conversations with John Cottam?"

"Never any, except about paying Voters."

"Did you ever borrow any Money of John Cottam?"

"He advanced some Money before Sir Henry came down, for the Expences for the Freemen."

"Did you ever repay it to John Cottam?"

"I did not; but it was paid on Sir Henry's Account."

"How do you know that?"

"Because I was present when it was paid."

"Has not an Application been very lately made to you yourself, by Cottam, for Repayment?"

"No."

"You will swear that?"

"I will."

"Nor any other Person on Cottam's Behalf?"

"No."

"And you will swear that you were present when Cottam was paid?"

"No, I will not; because I do not know that he has been repaid, unless he has been repaid by Sir Henry."

"Was any Memorandum passed between you and Cottam upon that Occasion?"

"None at all, except a Check; Darker Parker advanced some Money to the Witnesses, and other Parties did; and there was a Check, Pay so-and-so so much Money."

"Did you draw a Check, Pay so-and-so so much Money?"

"I did; on Cottam."

"But no Memorandum was passed between you and Cottam, with respect to the Advance of any Money by Cottam?"

"Never, that I recollect."

"Will you swear that none ever was?"

"I should say not."

"Will you swear it?"

"If you consider that Paper as a Memorandum, of course there was one; that was all the Memorandum I gave John Cottam."

"Then you will swear that no Memorandum was ever given by you to Cottam?"

"Certainly not."

"John Thornton; you have said you had Conversations with him?"

"Several Times."

"Who were present at those Conversations?"

"There was no one, because it was considered of a private Nature."

"Was any body present?"

"There was not; we were alone."

"Then there was nobody present at your Conversation with Bailey, and nobody present at your Conversation with Thornton?"

"Certainly not."

"Was it in that Conversation with Thornton that he stated that Mr. Foljambe had guaranteed before?"

"It was."

"Is John Thornton alive?"

"He is dead."

"Is Darker Parker alive?"

"I believe he is."

"You stated that when you canvassed for Ogilvie, Enquiries were made by the Freemen as to Money?"

"Enquiries were made as to the Character of those who knew him."

"Give me the Name of any one Freeman that made that Enquiry."

"It came from most that we canvassed."

"Give me the Name of any one."

The Witness hesitated.

(By a Lord.) "Why do not you answer the Question?"

"I am trying to recollect. Some did not take any Notice of it."

(Mr. Adam.) "I want the Name of any Person that made Enquiries as to the Character of Mr. Ogilvie?"

"Mr. John Cottam asked if I knew any thing of Mr. Ogilvie; Darker Parker asked me; Mr. Clarke asked me."

"Favor me with the Name of any other."

"I do not recollect positively."

"Endeavour to recollect."

"I cannot at this Moment."

"Then, although this Subject has been brought to your Recollection more than an Hour ago, you cannot recollect the Name of any other of those Individuals that made Enquiries as to the Character of Mr. Ogilvie?"

"I cannot speak positively, because it was so general that I should not wish to take one out, except I was quite certain as to the Person."

"Can you give the Name of any other Individual besides those you originally referred to?"

"I cannot."

"You cannot then afford me the Means of further Enquiry in any one Instance except those you have mentioned?"

"I cannot at present."

"Who was Mr. Ogilvie?"

"He is a Gentleman, I believe; I do not know whether he was not connected with the India House, or not."

"Do you know how he happened to come to you?"

"He heard from a Person of the Name of Rawlings, I believe, in London."

"Do you know his Christian Name?"

"Either George or Charles."

"Do you know what his real Residence was at that Time?"

"No, I do not, unless I had his Letter to refer to, which I have not."

"Have you got his Letter still?"

"I have not."

"Is the Letter at Retford?"

"It is not. I have not it; it is destroyed."

"Then you cannot tell me at all?"

"Exactly, I cannot. I could get the Information, I dare say, by seeing either Mr. Rawlings or some Person in Town."

"You have told us that John Thornton was active for Mr. Wrightson?"

"I believe he was."

"Why do you believe it?"

"Because he was so much with the Party; there were Two Candidates, and he might have been active for Sir Robert Dundas as well as Mr. Wrightson."

"Are you sure he was active for Mr. Wrightson?"

"I am certain he was active for them; but I do not intend to fix him as Agent, or any thing of that sort."

"Then when you make use of the Word "believe," do you mean that you are certain?"

"I am now."

"Was any body present when George Thornton said it was a Pity you had concerned yourself for Sir Henry Wilson?"

"There was not, for it was late at Night."

"Thomas Booth, you say, asked you if Wilson would pay?"

"He did."

"Will you swear that?"

"I will."

"Then the Belief that you had before is now converted into Certainty?"

"Yes; I recollect his coming up to me."

"You have no doubt about it?"

"No."

"Was any body present?"

"There was not, because these kind of Things were always mentioned in private, in confidence."

"Jonathan Savage; are you sure that he asked you?"

"Yes; that was at Tuxford."

"Was any body present then?"

"No, there was not."

"Richard Hindley; who was present then?"

"He called me out. All those Conversations were private."

"Then I need not go through Particulars; but in every one of those Instances nobody was present but yourself and the Man that asked you for the Money?"

"Except in Cockin's Case."

"Benjamin Scott?"

"He came down, and sat down in my Parlour."

"What Time of Day was it Scott came?"

"It was just before their Dinner Time, from Eleven to Twelve."

"What Time of the Year?"

"It would be about February or March before the Election, or perhaps a little nearer the Time."

"Are you talking now from Certainty or only Belief?"

"I recollect it very well; it was about Two or Three Months before the Election."

"Was it in your Office?"

"It was in the Parlour."

"Were you called out of the Office?"

"I was in the Parlour when he came in."

"What was Charlton, the Man you have talked of?"

"He lived at Ashton-under-Line; I do not know what he was."

"Was he in much Distress?"

"He said so."

"And you paid him Five Guineas, I think you say?"

"I did."

"Were you at that Time Sir Henry Wright Wilson's Agent?"

"I was."

"Do you know of Charlton going to the Sea Side at any Time afterwards?"

"I do not."

"You do not know that he was in a deep Decline?"

"I do not."

"You know nothing about him?"

"I do not."

"Who is Leake, that you talked of?"

"He is an old Man, a Maltster; he lived at Bulwell at that Time."

"Do you know where he lives now?"

"I do not."

"Was any body present when the Conversation took place about the Money being guaranteed?"

"I cannot say whether Mr. Alderman Meekly went with me or Mr. Tom Nelson."

"Are you sure that one or other did?"

"Yes."

"Recollect which of them went?"

"I cannot recollect; sometimes one went out with me and sometimes another."

"At this Time you were known to be Sir Henry's Agent?"

"Not at that Time."

"Were you not Sir Henry's Agent at any Time when these Conversations took place?"

"Those that you are speaking of were immediately towards the Advancement of the Election; in Cockin's Case, for instance, I was his Agent."

"At the Time of the Conversation with Mellors and the Wass's?"

"I was Agent in the Case of Wass."

"In the Case of Whitlam were you?"

"No; that was in London; I was not Agent then."

"Who went with you to Crooks?"

"Mr. Bower."

"He heard all that took place, did he?"

"He did; and Mr. Alderman Meekly was with me at one Time."

"At what Time was Mr. Alderman Meekly with you?"

"At the Time previously to my being Agent."

"And those People had no Hesitation, knowing that you were Sir Henry Wilson's Agent, in asking you for Money for the Election?"

"It was quite private."

"Mr. Meekly, you know, was there at one Time?"

"He was."

"Then they had no Hesitation in telling you that they expected Money for their Vote, though they refused their Vote; and they knew that you were Sir Henry Wright Wilson's Agent?"

"Not the least, because they knew that I knew all about it; they knew I knew what the Custom of the Borough was."

"There was no Hesitation then in asking directly for a Bribe of the Agent for the Person that they knew they should not vote for?"

"There was not the least Hesitation about it; it was quite private."

"Trusting to your Honor that it should not be divulged?"

"Exactly so; I wished to be a Friend to them."

"Do you know a Person of the Name of Walker?"

"John Walker."

"Did you ever receive any Money for him?"

"Yes."

"Did you pay it to him?"

"Yes."

"Did you ever receive Seven Pounds for him?"

"Yes; and I paid his Expenses to London in Money that I sent him by Jackson; and he is now indebted to me Six or Seven Pounds at least for Monies advanced in Payments I made for him."

"Did any body ever pay you that again?"

"Yes; Sir Henry Wright Wilson."

"Did you ever give Sir Henry Wright Wilson a Receipt?"

"I must have given him a Receipt, because he would not pay any thing without it."

"Did you give it in your own Name?"

"Yes."

"Did you ever give a Receipt in Walker's Name?"

"No."

"Then you say you repaid Walker's Money in the Shape of Expences?"

"I charged Walker with his Expences up and down."

"And you gave a Receipt to Sir Henry Wilson in your own Name?"

"I should have done so if I gave a Receipt."

"Do not you recollect whether you did or not?"

"No; there were so many of them."

"Where do you reside now?"

"At Tunbridge in Kent."

"Have you abandoned Retford?"

"I have."

"Do you carry on your Business as an Attorney at Tunbridge?"

"Yes."

"Had you any Connection at Retford before you went there?"

"No; I was very unpopular, in consequence of my Conduct there, and I went to Tunbridge."

"Has Mr. Newton lately brought an Action against you?"

"He has."

"Did he recover a Verdict?"

"He did."

"For how much?"

"£21 17s., and £15 15s. 6d. for Expences, which was charged against me, but which I never received a single Shilling of."

"Have the Damages been paid?"

"They have not."

"Have you seen Mr. Newton upon the Subject of your coming here?"

"I have seen him once upon the Subject of paying those Expences."

"Have you seen Mr. Newton upon the Subject of your coming here?"

"I have not."

"Have you seen him since the Verdict was pronounced?"

"I have; I have paid him Part of the Money."

"What Conversation passed between Newton and you about coming here as a Witness?"

"He asked me what I would prove."

"Was that Meeting with reference to your Verdict?"

"The Meeting was for the express Purpose of paying him Money, and giving him Security for the rest."

"And then you fell into Conversation about Retford?"

"We fell into Conversation about it altogether."

"Did he happen to take it all down upon Paper?"

"He did not."

"Did he take any of it down upon Paper?"

"He did not, to my Knowledge; he could not."

"Then he did not?"

"He did not."

"Then why do you say he did not, to your Knowledge?"

"He might have committed it to Paper afterwards, but he did not in my Presence."

"Did he examine you as an Attorney examines a Witness?"

"He never asked me any Question at all."

"He did not ask you such Questions as to enable any thing like a Brief to be prepared?"

"Not the least."

"Or any Minutes for Cross-examination?"

"He did not."

"You have been asked such Questions?"

"Yes; I have been asked some Questions by Mr. Heptinstall."

"Where were they put to you?"

"At Mr. Heptinstall's House."

"Were they reduced into Writing?"

"I think they were."

"Have you any Doubt about it?"

"It was only general; it was with reference to a Conversation that passed with Mr. Cottam."

"That was all, was it?"

"That was all at that Time; Mr. Heptinstall has asked me Questions at another Time."

"Then you have been examined Twice, have you?"

"Yes."

"Did Mr. Heptinstall ask you Questions the second Time as if he was preparing a Brief?"

"I was satisfied that was the Case."

"But you did not tell me that at first?"

"It was not the Case in the first instance."

"Was the second Examination reduced into Writing?"

"Yes."

"Was there a third Examination by Mr. Heptinstall?"

"Yes, there was."

"Was there a fourth Examination?"

"No."

"How did you happen to go to Mr. Heptinstall?"

"He sent for me."

"How soon after you had seen Newton?"

"I had not seen Newton at all at that Time."

"Had the Verdict been pronounced before you saw Mr. Heptinstall?"

"It had."

"How long after the Verdict had you seen Mr. Heptinstall?"

"I think it was on the 27th, when I called on Mr. Heptinstall."

"How long was it after the Verdict?"

"Four or Five Days; hardly so much."

"Do you recollect the Day you saw Newton?"

"That I do not."

"Did you come from Tunbridge up here?"

"I did."

"In consequence of their Lordships Summons?"

"In consequence of being sent for by Mr. Heptinstall."

"Not in consequence of the Action?"

"No."

"How long have you been settled at Tunbridge?"

"Eighteen Months."

"How many Clerks have you now?"

"Only One Clerk; I do my own Work a good deal."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

Then Samuel Brown was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Price.) "Are you a Burgess of Retford?"

"Yes."

"How many Years have you been a Freeman?"

"Thirteen or Fourteen."

"Do you recollect the first Election, when Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton were Candidates?"

"Yes."

"Did you promise those Gentlemen?"

"Yes."

"After that Election, did you receive any thing?"

"Yes."

"What was it?"

"Parcels."

"How many?"

"Two."

"What did they contain each?"

"Twenty Guineas."

"Do you remember the second Election, when Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton were Candidates?"

"Yes."

"Did you promise your Vote before that Election?"

"Yes."

"Did you receive any thing after it?"

"Yes."

"What was it?"

"Twenty Guineas."

"In One Packet or Two?"

"Two Packets."

"Twenty Guineas each?"

"Yes."

"For whom did you vote at the last Election?"

"Sir Robert Dundas and Mr. Wrightson."

Cross-examined by Mr. Alderson.

"When were you admitted a Freeman?"

"When I was sworn in."

"When was that?"

"I cannot justly say now."

"Tell me as near as you can justly?"

"I am sure I cannot speak to it now."

"Will you tell me, as near as you can, in what Year it was?"

"I do not know."

"Was it Ten Years ago?"

"It is more than that."

"Twenty?"

"Not so much."

"Fifteen?"

"I cannot speak to it for the Truth."

"I do not want to know exactly; was it before Osbaldeston's Election?"

"It is since then."

"And before Evans and Crompton's first Election?"

"Yes."

"Then it was between 1812 and 1818?"

"It was before Evans and Crompton's first Election."

"How long before that?"

"I cannot speak to it."

"Was it a Year before?"

"I do not know."

"Two Years?"

"I do not know."

"Who canvassed you upon the first Election of Crompton and Evans?"

"Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton themselves."

"Who canvassed you first?"

"Mr. Evans."

"What passed between you?"

"He asked me if I would give him my Vote, and I said I would."

"What else?"

"He said that was right, and he was greatly obliged to me."

"Was that all?"

"Yes."

"Was not any thing said about a Packet?"

"Nothing."

"Or about "All is right;" was any thing said about promising you any thing?"

"Nothing."

"Did not you ask for Money?"

"Never."

"Did not you ask whether he was a Man of Property?"

"Never."

"Was there no Mr. Hornby at that Time to ask, whether he was a Man of Property?"

"I did not know Mr. Hornby then."

"What passed between you and Mr. Crompton; the same as with Mr. Evans?"

"Yes."

"Had you any Promise from either one or the other, before the Election or after?"

"No, never."

"Had you ever any Promise from Mr. Evans or Mr. Crompton?"

"Never."

"Had you ever any Reason from Mr. Evans or Mr. Crompton to expect Money from them?"

"None."

"How came you to receive the Packet?"

"I do not know."

"When was it brought; was it brought a Week or two after the Election?"

"No; a long while after the Election."

"How long after?"

"Twelve or Thirteen Months after."

"Were you at Home when it was delivered?"

"I was."

"Who gave it you?"

"I do not know."

"Was it a Man, a Woman, or a Child?"

"It was a Man, I believe."

"What did he say?"

"He asked if one Samuel Brown lived there; and I went to the Door; and he said, I have brought this to you; and I asked if there was any thing to pay; and he said, No; and he went about his Business."

"What did you do with it?"

"I took it in, and looked at it."

"What did you find in it?"

"Twenty Guineas in Notes."

"Was there any Gold besides the Notes?"

"None."

"Was that the same all the Four Times?"

"Yes."

"You say you voted for Wrightson and Dundas at the last Election?"

"Yes."

"Who canvassed you then?"

"Sir Robert Dundas and Mr. Wrightson themselves."

"Was any body with them?"

"Nobody when Sir Robert Dundas came to me."

"Did he make you any Promise?"

"No."

"Did you enquire of him whether he was a Man of Property?"

"No."

"At any Time before the Election?"

"No."

"Do you know Mr. Hornby?"

"I have seen him."

"How long had he been at Retford at that Time?"

"The first I saw of Mr. Hornby was the last Election."

"How long had he been at Retford before that Time?"

"I do not know; I do not live at Retford; I live at Sheffield."

"You had nothing for the last Election, had you?"

"No."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

Then William Kirkby was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Law.) "Are you a Burgess of East Retford?"

"Yes."

"I believe you did not live at Retford in the Year 1812, did you?"

"No, I did not."

"Nor in 1814?"

"No; I have not lived there these Forty Years."

"Did you promise your Vote in the Election of 1818, when Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton were Candidates?"

"Yes, I did."

"Did you promise those Gentlemen?"

"Yes."

"Did you receive any Packets after that Election?"

"Yes, I believe I did."

"How many do you believe you received?"

"I think Two."

"What did they each contain?"

"Twenty or Twenty-one Pounds."

"Do you recollect the Election of 1820?"

"Yes."

"Did you promise the same Gentlemen then?"

"Yes."

"Did you receive any Packets after that Election?"

"Yes; the same."

"What did they contain?"

"The same as before."

"Did you vote in the Election of William Ingilby Esquire and General Charles Crawford, in 1807?"

"Yes."

"For whom did you vote?"

"William Ingilby."

"Did you receive any Packet after that Election?"

"No, I did not."

"Did you receive any Money?"

"I am certain I did not."

"Did any one receive any for you on your Account?"

"Not to my Knowledge."

"Whom did you vote for at the last Election?"

"Sir Robert Dundas and Mr. Wrightson."

Cross-examined by Mr. Stephenson.

"Who canvassed you at the last Election?"

"Sir Robert Dundas and Mr. Wrightson, separately."

"Did they hold out to you any Expectation of any Money?"

"Not the least in the World."

"Or any kind of Favor?"

"None whatever."

"Any Inducement to give your Vote?"

"None whatever."

"Have you received any thing since?"

"Not any thing."

"Who canvassed you in 1818?"

"I believe the Gentlemen themselves."

"Did they hold out any Promise or Expectation of any kind?"

"Not of any kind."

"How soon after the Election of 1818 did you receive the Packets?"

"I cannot recollect at all."

"Within what Time?"

"It might be Six or Twelve Months; but I was frequently in the habit of receiving Letters and Bills."

"You were frequently in the habit of receiving Letters containing Money?"

"Yes, in the Way of Trade."

"Did those Twenty Pounds which you received make any particular Impression upon your Mind?"

"Very little; it was not an Object with me."

"In 1820 was there any Promise, upon the Canvass of 1820?"

"Not any; I never received one in my Life."

"No Favor of any kind?"

"No Favor of any kind."

"Is 1807 the only Election at which you had voted, except those you have mentioned?"

"I have had a Vote for the last Four or Five and twenty Years."

"At how many Elections have you voted?"

"I cannot say; I have voted at every Election since Sir William Ingilby's."

"Did you receive any Money after the Election in 1812?"

"No, I did not."

"Did you vote in the Election of 1806?"

"Yes."

"Did you receive any Money after that?"

"I did not."

"Then there were Three Elections at which you received no Money, and this last makes a Fourth?"

"Yes."

"Did you vote in the Election of 1802?"

"I did not."

"You have voted at Six Elections altogether?"

"Yes."

"And 1818 and 1820 are the only Two after which you have received Letters containing Money?"

"They are."

"Did you refer those Letters to any thing connected with the Election?"

"No, I could not do that."

"Are you a Resident at Retford?"

"No; at Nottingham."

"Were you ever canvassed by Mr. Hornby?"

"No."

"Do you know Mr. Hornby?"

"I just know him, and that is all; I never spoke to him in my Life."

"The Witness was directed to withdraw.

"Then William Wakefield was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Price.) "Are you a Freeman of Retford?"

"I am."

"How many Years have you been a Freeman?"

"Thirty-six Years."

"Do you recollect the last Election, when Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton were Candidates?"

"I do."

"What Year was that in?"

"1818."

"Did you promise your Vote to those Gentlemen upon that Occasion?"

"I did."

"Did you receive any thing after that Election?"

"I did."

"What?"

"Twenty Pounds from each Side."

"Were they Pounds or Guineas?"

"Pounds."

"Do you recollect the second Election of Mr. Crompton and Mr. Evans?"

"Yes."

"Did you promise those Gentlemen again?"

"Yes."

"Did you receive any thing after that Election?"

"Yes."

"How much?"

"Twenty Guineas from each."

"Do you recollect the Election of 1807, when William Ingilby and General Crawford were elected?"

"I do."

"Did you vote for either of those Gentlemen?"

"For General Crawford."

"Did you receive any thing after that Election?"

"I did."

"What did you receive?"

"On that Election, I did not receive any thing."

"What was the first Election after which you received Money?"

"Mr. Petrie and Sir Wharton Amcotts."

"What did you receive after that Election?"

"Twenty Pounds."

"Do you recollect the Election of 1802, when Robert Crawford Esquire and John Jaffary Esquire were returned?"

"I do."

"Did you receive any thing after that Election?"

"I did."

"How much?"

"Forty Pounds."

"Do you recollect the Election of 1806, when Robert Crawford and Thomas Hugham were returned?"

"I do."

"Did you receive any thing after that Election?"

"I did."

"What did you receive after that Election?"

"Forty Pounds."

"If you can refresh your Memory as to the Election of 1807, when William Ingilby and General Crawford were elected, did you receive any thing after that Election?"

"No."

Cross-examined by Mr. Stephenson.

"Where do you live?"

"At Manchester; I have resided there Thirty Years."

"Who canvassed you in 1796?"

"I then resided in London."

"Who canvassed you?"

"A Mr. Beaumont, an Agent for the Two Parties concerned."

"Do you recollect what passed between you and Mr. Beaumont?"

"Nothing particular, any more than canvassing me."

"He asked you then for your Vote?"

"Yes."

"Did you expect you should get Forty Pounds for it?"

"No; I was quite unaccustomed to it."

"In 1802, who canvassed you then?"

"I was canvassed, I think, by Letter."

"By whom?"

"I think, Mr. Mason."

"Were you told you should get Forty Pounds for your Vote?"

"No."

"What do you mean by answering my Learned Friend that you got Twenty Pounds from each Party?"

"It was after the Election was over."

"You considered that as the Price of your Vote?"

"I was told that it had been the usual Custom in the Place."

"Who told you that?"

"No one; it was my own Idea."

"You had got that Idea by being told it; but no one told you?"

"I understood so when I was an Apprentice in the Place."

"Who told you?"

"Perhaps the Master I was apprenticed with."

"Who was he?"

"William Clark."

"Was he a Burgess?"

"He was."

"Can you undertake to swear that William Clark your Master told you that it was the Custom of Retford that a Man should get Forty Pounds by selling his Vote?"

"I will not undertake to swear that it was the Custom of the Place."

"I want to know how you knew it was the Custom of the Place?"

"I do not know how I was in possession of the Fact; it might have been the mere Talk of the Town."

"You got it from common Rumour?"

"I did."

"Who did you vote for at the last Election?"

"I did not vote at the last Election at all."

"Were you canvassed?"

"I was; I went down to Retford to give my Vote."

"By whom were you canvassed?"

"By Sir Robert Dundas and Mr. Wrightson."

"Do you know Mr. Hornby?"

"I do."

"Have you had any Conversation with him?"

"Not since I came to Town."

"Had you any Conversation with him previous to the Election in 1826?"

"No."

"Did you ever ask Mr. Hornby for any Money?"

"No."

"Had you ever any Conversation with him about your Vote?"

"No."

"Or about the Candidates being rich?"

"No."

"Had you ever any Conversation with Mr. Hornby about the Wealth of any Candidate that stood for East Retford?"

"No."

"Had you any Conversation with Mr. Hornby respecting your Vote at any Election?"

"Nothing relative to that."

"Or any thing respecting Money at any Election?"

"No."

"Or his lending you any Money?"

"No."

"Or advancing to you any Money?"

"No."

Re-examined by Mr. Law.

"Had you any Acquaintance with Mr. Hornby at all?"

"Not previous to the last Election."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

Then Francis George Abbott was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Law.) "Do you produce the Writs and Returns of the Elections at East Retford from the Year 1784 to 1826?"

"Not to 1826: 1818 is the last I have."

"Those of 1820 and 1826 are not in your Custody?"

"They are not."

"They remain still with the House, do not they?"

"They do."

"Is the List now shewn to you a correct List of the Names returned from 1784 down to 1818?" (The same being shewn to the Witness.)

"It is."

The same was delivered in; and read as follows:

List of Representatives for East Retford.

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

The Counsel were directed to withdraw.

Ordered, That the further Consideration and Second Reading of the said Bill be put off to Thursday next; and that the Lords be summoned.

Witnesses discharged from Attendance on.

Ordered, That Samuel Brown, William Kirkby and William Wakefield be discharged from further Attendance on this House on the last-mentioned Bill.

Insolvent Debtors Bill, Petition of M. O'Brien Butler against.

Upon reading the Petition of Morrough O'Brien Butler, confined in the Four Courts Marshalsea, Dublin; taking notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act to continue for Two Years, and from thence to the End of the then next Session of Parliament, and amend, the Laws for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors in England;" and praying their Lordships, "That the Clause giving a Power to any Creditor to compel a Surrender of all Property of the Debtor, being Six Months in Prison, whether in Possession, Remainder, Reversion or Expectancy, (altering the Law of England as it has stood from Time immemorial, a Change assimilating it to the Scotch System, the Result of which on the more complicated System of British Law cannot be anticipated,) may not pass:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Mercurii, nonum diem instantis Junii, horâ decimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.