House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 17 May 1644

DIE Veneris, 17 die Maii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Reynolds.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

The Speaker acquainted this House with a Letter from the Lord General, directed to him:

E. of Essex's Letter, about the Report of the King's coming to London.

"My Lord,

"How the general Report is come of His Majesty's coming to London, is utterly unknown to me: I shall not fail with my best Endeavours to find the Ground of it; but London is the likeliest Place to know it, here being no Speech of it in this Army. As soon as I shall have any Notice of His Intention of repairing to the Parliament or the Army, I shall not fail to give Notice of it; and, as I am their Servant, shall be ready at all Times to obey their Directions. For the Business itself of the King's coming to the Parliament or Army, I cannot conceive there is any Ground for it; but, however, I believe I shall be the last that shall hear of it.

"Your humble Servant,

Maii 16, 1644, upon the March.

"Essex."

Directed thus,

"For the Right Honourable the Lord Grey of Warke, Speaker of the Lords House pro Tempore."

Ordered, That this Letter be communicated to the House of Commons.

Ld. Conway Leave to go Abroad.

Upon reading the Petition of the Lord Viscount Conway. (Here enter it.) It is Ordered, That he shall have Liberty to go Abroad.

Sir Richard Gurny, Leave to go to Tunbridge.

Upon reading the humble Petition of Sir Ric'd Gurny Baronet; shewing, "That, by reason of his long Imprisonment, his Infirmity is much grown upon him, which he was wont to go the Waters at Tunbridge for his Recovery; therefore he humbly desires that he may have Liberty for to go to the said Waters for Four Months."

Hereupon this House Ordered, That he shall have Leave, for Four Months, to go to Tunbridge Waters, provided he gives Security then to return.

Monsieur Boisovin, the French Agent in Scotland, stayed in Lancashire, coming to London.

The Earl of Northumb. reported, "That, according to their Lordships Directions, himself and the Lord Viscount Say & Seale have opened the Lord Fairefaix's Letter, in the Presence of the Lord Maitland; in which Letter is intimated that Monsieur Bossivin, that was the Agent for France in Scotland, coming from thence, is stayed and restrained in Lanchashire, until the Pleasure of the Houses be known."

To be released.

Hereupon this House, considering that the said Monsieur Bossevin is an Agent acknowledged by the Crown of France, were of Opinion, that it is fit that he be freed from his Restraint, and that he come up to London.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference concerning the Committee of both Kingdoms.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by the Lord Grey of Groby:

To desire a Free Conference, concerning the Committee of both Kingdoms.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Advice from the Lord Admiral, that a Ship is taken, going to the Enemy, with Arms from Rotterdam.

Next, was read a Letter directed to the Speaker, from the Lord Admiral, (fn. 1) giving Notice, "That his Rear Admiral with his Squadron have taken a Ship called The Tyger, laded from Rotterdam with Arms and Ammunition, going for the Enemy; and also his Lordship desires that some more Ships may be sent, to increase the Squadron in The Downes."

Ordered, To send this Letter to the House of Commons.

Lady Dorset's Petition about her Sequestration.

A Petition of the Lady Dorsett's was read; desiring, That the Sequestration of Lands in Sussex may be taken off, out of which she is to have Maintenance."

Ordered, To send this Petition to the House of Commons.

Message to the H. C. with it;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

and the preceding Letter, and about Monsieur Boisovin being released;

1. To deliver unto them the Lord Fairfaix's Letter; and to let them know, that this House is of Opinion, that Monsieur Bossevin, being a known Agent of the Crown of France, being freed from his Restraint, shall be permitted to come to London.

2. To acquaint them with the Lord Admiral's Letter.

to remind them of sundry Petitions;

3. To deliver to them the Countess of Dorsett's Petition.

4. To put them in Mind of the Earl of Mulgrave's Petition, and the Lord Sheffield's.

5. To put them in Mind to expedite the Business concerning Sir Henry Mervin.

and concerning the Examinations about the Honour of both Houses, and the E. of Essex.

6. That, at the Committee of both Houses concerning the Examinations about the Earl of Essex's Business, some Questions being made upon the Oath given to the Witnesses, Mr. Whitlock was appointed by the Committee to report the same to the House of Commons; the Lords now desire that they may know the Resolution of the House of Commons, whether they will proceed any further in that joint Committee or not.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference, concerning the Committee of both Kingdoms.

The Speaker reported the Effect of this Conference; which was, "The House of Commons have presented to their Lordships an Answer to the late Conference which their Lordships had with them, concerning the Committee of both Kingdoms.

"The Paper brought from the House of Commons was commanded to be read.

"The House of Commons agree with your Lordships, that it is necessary to have a Committee of both Houses to join with the Commissioners of Scotland, the Kingdom of Scotland having joined with us in a common Defence for Religion and the Liberty of both Nations; and that the Two Houses of Parliament, which are denied and opposed by others, should keep Unity and a good Understanding among themselves; and they shall be careful neither to infringe any of your Lordships Rights, nor to stand more strictly upon their own than shall be requisite for the Service both of the Kingdom and Parliament: Whereas your Lordships hold it just, equal, and your undoubted Right, to have the naming your own Members in the Ordinance you sent for a joint Committee; we acknowledge it the just and undoubted Right of either House, in any Ordinance they shall send each to other, to name what Persons they shall think fit; but they deny that either House hath a severed and particular Right so to name their own Members in a Bill or Ordinance, as that the other House shall be thereby concluded, because that Bills and Ordinances were made by the Legislative Power, which is not a distinct Privilege of either House, but a common Right of Parliament.

"In the Ordinance which was sent down by your Lordships, the Committee is to be a joint Committee with the Commissioners of Scotland, which proves that the Members of each House are not appointed by their respective Houses, but by Authority of Parliament.

"Concerning the Accommodation mentioned by your Lordships, they desire not to proceed by Way of Anticipation or Pre-contract, but to go in the old and usual Way of Parliament, which is, that, in Amendments offered upon a Bill or Ordinance, the Amendments only are to be questioned, and not the Bill or Ordinance to be waved in respect that all but the Amendments are assented to by both Houses.

"And in this particular Case, your Lordships have been of the same Opinion for the passing the Ordinance whereby the Committee of both Kingdoms sat; your Lordships propounded an Addition of Six Lords more, which, upon Reasons from the House of Commons, your Lordships waved, and declared yourselves satisfied, and therefore cannot conceive that that should be now urged a Breach of Privilege, which upon Reasons and Debate was then settled as is now desired.

"There being many Armies in the Field, and all in present Action, which will require daily Advice and Directions; the House of Commons, to discharge the Duty and Trust which lies upon them for the Safety of the Three Kingdoms, do desire your speedy Concurrence in the Ordinance which they returned to your Lordships."

The House taking this into (fn. 2) Debate, the (fn. 3) Resolution of the House was, to return this Answer at this Free Conference with the House of Commons:

Commons desired to send up a new Ordinance, concerning the Committee of both Kingdoms

"That, to avoid further Dispute, if the Commons will send up a new Ordinance (the former being voted out before), then this House will take Consideration, and do what belongs to them in Honour and Justice.

Then this House was adjourned during Pleasure; and the Lords went to meet the House of Commons, at a Free Conference, to let them know this.

And the House being resumed;

The Speaker reported, "That he had read at the Conference their Lordships Resolution; and some Members of the House of Commons said, That they conceived the Ordinance is not cast out, and they desire an Answer concerning that."

Then this House taking this into Consideration, Resolved, To give this Answer to the House of Commons,

"That, to avoid further Dispute, if the Commons will send up a new Ordinance, then this House will take Consideration, and do what belongs to them in Honour and Justice."

The Lords went again to meet the House of Commons, at the Free Conference.

Lord Conway's Petition for his Enlargement.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords assembled in Parliament.

"The humble Petition of Edward Viscount Conway;

"Shewing,

"That, so soon as by the Declaration of both Kingdoms, Hopes were given to your Petitioner of having his former Errors remitted, and being again received into the Protection of the Parliament, he took a Resolution of returning, and submitting himself unto the Parliament, which he put in Execution as soon as possibly he could find a free Passage; at his coming to London, he received a Command from your Lordships, by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, not to stir out of his Lodging, which he hath carefully obeyed. His humble Desire unto your Lordships now is, that you would be pleased to take him into your Consideration, and allow him such an Enlargement as in your Lordships Wisdom shall be thought fit;

"And he shall ever pray for a Blessing upon all your Lordships Proceedings.

"Conway."

Sir Theodore Mayhern, and Sir Matthew Lyster, Leave to attend the Queen.

"Ordered, by the Lords in Parliament, That Leave shall be given to Sir Theodore Mayerne, and Sir "Mathew Lyster, to go down to the Queen, for Her Health, with their necessary Servants and Accommodations, without any Prejudice to their Persons or Estates, Personal and Real."

Their Pass.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords in Parliament, That Sir Theodore D' May'rne, Sir Mathew Lister, and Mr. Archibald Hay, with their Servants, Gedeon Chabrey, Josias Cuper, Theodore Devaux, Mrs. Dorothy Stansby, John Michaell, George a Footman, Alexander Hay, Thomas Lanricke, and another Footman, are hereby authorized, with a Coach and Six Horses, and a Waggon with Six Horses, to carry their Necessaries and Accommodations, to pass quietly and freely from London, to the City of Exeter, in the County of Devon; the said Sir Theodore Mayerne and Sir Mathew Lyster going down to the Queen, for Her Health; provided they carry nothing with them prejudicial to the State: And this shall be a sufficient Warrant in that Behalf.

"To all Colonels, Captains, Lieutenants, Officers of Guard, and all other Superior and Inferior Officers whom this may concern."

Mr. Willis, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mr. Thomas Willis and Mr. Agard shall have a Pass, to Ash, in the County of South'ton.

Ordinance for Mr. Ashton to be Minister of Hempsted.

An Ordinance for appointing Mr. James Ashton Clerk, to be Minister at Hempsteed, in the County of Hertford, in the Place of Mr. Kendall, was read, and approved of, and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons, for their Concurrence.

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9^a cras.