House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 13 November 1643

DIE Lunæ, 13 die Novembris.

PRAYERS.

Lords present:

Lord Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Sir John Conyers's Petition for a Renewal of his Leave.

Upon reading the Petition of Sir John Conyers Knight, Lieutenant of The Tower of London; shewing, "That whereas he hath Leave given him, by the Parliament, to be absent from his Place for Three Months from the Time of his Departure out of the Kingdom, which Time is near expired; and in regard of his urgent Occasions in Holland and Zeland where now he is, which cannot be dispatched so soon but to his great Prejudice, he desires that he may have further Leave to be absent from his said Place until the last Day of February next."

Ordered, That this House approves of the Desire of this Petition; and, because it is directed to both Houses of Parliament, this House thinks it fit to be sent down to the House of Commons, to let them know, this House consents to give him further Leave, as is desired; and desire their Concurrence therein.

Sent to the H. C.

And a Message presently was sent to the House of Commons, by Serjeant Whitfeild and Serjeant Fynch, for this Purpose.

Spratt to be brought to the House.

Ordered, That Steven Spratt shall be brought to this House To-morrow Morning, to see whether he will own a Paper.

Dr. Newcomen to be instituted to a Living in the Diocese of Winton, on the Presentation of the E. of Salisbury.

Upon Information to this House, "That the Earl of Sarum hath presented a Chaplain of his to a Benefice in his Gift, being in the Diocese of the Bishop of Winton; but, by reason that the said Bishop is at Oxford, and had reserved in his Patent to his Chancellor the Approbation of all Clerks to be admitted to any Ecclesiastical Benefice to himself:" It is Ordered, Mr. Dr. Ayliff, his Chancellor Substitute, is hereby enjoined and appointed to admit and institute Thomas Newcomen, the said Earl's Chaplain, to the Parsonage of in the Diocese of Winton; and that the Bishop's Register, and other Officers, shall attend the said Dr. Ayliff for the said Business.

Baron Trevor's Recognizance vacated.

Ordered, That the Recognizance entered into by Mr. Baron Trevor, and his Sureties to this House for his appearing before this House when Judgement shall be given against him upon the Impeachment from the House of Commons, shall be hereby vacated; he having fulfilled and performed the Condition of the said Recognizance.

Archbishop of Canterbury at the Bar.

This Day Wm. Laude, Archbishop of Canterbury, according to the Order of this House, was brought to this Bar, by the Gentlemen Usher and the Lieutenant of The Tower; and kneeling until the Speaker bid him stand up, the Speaker told him, "That this Day was appointed for him to put in his Answer to the Impeachment of the House of Commons against him of High Treason, and High Crimes and Misdemeanors; and this House would know whether he hath brought his Answer."

Then he delivered in Writing this Answer following, subscribed with his own Hand; which was commanded to be read, as followeth:

"The humble Answer of Wm. Archbishop of Canterbury to the further Articles of Impeachment of High Treason, and divers High Crimes and Misdemeanors, exhibited against him by the Honourable House of Commons, according to Direction of an Order of this Honourable House of the 23th of October last.

His Answer to the further Articles of Impeachment of the H. C.

"All Advantages of Exception to the said Articles of Impeachment to this Defendant saved and reserved; this Defendant humbly saith, That he is Not Guilty of all or any the Matters by the said Impeachment charged, in such Manner and Form as the same are by the said Articles of Impeachment charged.

"W. Cant."

This being read, he desired Leave to speak a few Words; which (fn. 1) the House granted.

Desires his Counsel may be directed in what Points they may advise him.

Then he confessed, "This Impeachment against him was a heavy Charge, and unable for him to bear it, both in regard of the Matter, the Persons from whom it comes, and also of himself, in respect of his great Age, being Seventy-one Years of Age; and though it hath pleased their Lordships to assign him Counsel, yet the Decay of his Memory is so great, and his Time of his Imprisonment hath been so long, being Three Years wanting Two Months, Part of which Time he was close Prisoner, and so deprived of speaking with such Friends as might have been of Use to him, that he hath not been able to give a particular Answer to the several Parts of his Charge, as the Cause would require: Besides, the Articles of this Charge are so mixed with Matters of Treason, and Crimes and Misdemeanors, that his Counsel says, they cannot with Safety to themselves advise him for his Defence: Therefore he humbly desired their Lordships would be pleased to think of some Course, and give such further Directions, that the Matters of Treason, and the Matters of Crime and Misdemeanor, may be distinguished, that so the Benefit of his Counsel may be continued unto him, according to their Lordships Intentions."

His Counsel heard concerning their Doubts.

Hereupon their Lordships Resolved, To hear the Counsel offer their Doubts, that so they might the better judge of the Business.

And the Counsel being called in, they expressed their Readiness to obey their Lordships Commands, in giving their best Assistance to the Archbishop of Canterbury in his Defence, in what it was fit for them to advise;" but declared "That the Matters of High Treason and High Crimes and Misdemeanors are so interwoven through the whole Body of the Charge, that they cannot without Danger to themselves advise him therein, unless their Lordships please to give them further Directions, and separate and distinguish the Matters of High Treason from Crimes and Misdemeanors; for those Things may be adjudged to be High Treason by a Parliament (it being the Supreme Court of Judicature of this Kingdom) as cannot be judged by Counsel to be so; and by this Means Counsel may incur the Danger of being of Counsel in Matters of Treason; besides the Disappointment of (fn. 2) the Party impeached, in that Part of his Defence which he relies upon Counsel for: And lastly, the Close of this Charge runs thus, "For which Matters and Things, the Commons of England do impeach the said Archbishop of Canter. of High Treason, and other Crimes and Misdemeanors;" which they conceive hath Reference to the whole Body of the Charge. Therefore, without further Directions herein, for Distinction between Matters of High Treason and Crimes and Misdemeanors, they know not how with Safety to advise the said Archbishop further for making his Defence."

The Counsel withdrew.

Counsel to prepare to advise him on the whole Charge.

And the House took these Things into serious Consideration; and, because this House knew not whether the House of Commons would proceed against the said Archbishop for High Treason or for High Crimes and Misdemeanors, thought it fit to let the Counsel be commanded to provide to give the Archbishop Counsel, in Point of Law, for all the Articles; and, when this Cause comes to be prosecuted by the House of Commons, as there shall be Need, this House will give further Directions in due Time, concerning their giving of Counsel in Matters of Fact.

The Counsel were called in, and told as abovesaid.

Archbishop of Canterbury remanded to The Tower.

Ordered, That the Archbishop of Canterbury shall be returned to The Tower, there to remain until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

Sir John Conyers's Lease renewed.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return with this Answer:

That they have taken the Petition of Sir John Conyers into Consideration, and agree that he shall have Leave to stay in The Low Countries till the last of February next.

Message from the H. C. for the Committee of Safety to fit Three Days in the Week, and the Houses not to sit on those Days;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Walter Longe, Esquire:

1. To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons have Ordered, That their Committees shall sit, about the important Affairs of the Kingdom, on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays, on which Days they have Resolved not to sit as a House; which they thought fit to acquaint their Lordships with: And to desire that those Three Days the Committee for the Safety of the Kingdom may meet at Nine of the Clock in the Mornings.

Agreed to.

and with Two Orders.

2. To desire Concurrence in Two Orders:

1. For preserving of Records and Evidences from Plundering.

2. An Ordinance for raising of Money, by Way of Imposition upon Merchandizes, for maintaining the Garrison at Plymouth.

Ordered, That the Judges and the King's Serjeants shall peruse this Ordinance concerning Records against Wednesday next.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships do agree to the Adjournment of the Houses, as is desired; and concerning the rest of this Message, their Lordships will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Committee to consider of the Papers from the French Ambassador.

Ordered, That these Lords following, or any Three, shall meet this Afternoon, at Three of the Clock, and when afterwards they please; and consider the Paper last sent from the French Ambassador, and report their Opinions thereof to this House on Wednesday next:

Message from the H. C. with an Order.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Nicolls, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence, in an Order concerning paying Monies out of the Excise.

(Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees in this Order.

Order to reimburse the Commissioners of Excise to 3,000 l. advanced for the L. General's Army.

"Whereas the Commissioners of Excise and New Impost, besides Eight Thousand Pounds formerly lent, have undertaken to furnish Twenty-three Thousand Pounds, for Payment and Recruiting of the Lord General's Army, according to an Order of both Houses of Parliament of the 31th of October last; and the Merchant Adventurers have formerly lent, towards the Payment of the Navy, Thirty Thousand Pounds, to be reimbursed, with Interest, at Three Payments, out of the Excise, according to a former Order of both Houses of Parliament, as by both those Orders appeareth: It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, for the Indemnity and Reimbursement of the said Commissioners of Excise, That all Monies received upon the Excise before the first Ten Thousand Pounds grow due to the Merchant Adventurers, shall accrue to satisfy the said Twenty-three Thousand Pounds, together with Interest at Eight Pounds per Centum, to the said Commissioners of Excise; and, after the first Ten Thousand Pounds shall be paid as aforesaid to the Merchant Adventurers, then the Surplusage of all the Monies due for Excise shall likewise (till the Second Payment to the Merchant Adventurers be paid) accrue to the said Commissioners; and so for the Third Payment of the Merchant Adventurers, until the said Commissioners for Excise be fully reimbursed the said Twenty-three Thousand Pounds, with Interest as aforesaid: And it is likewise Ordered, That the said Commissioners shall have Power hereby to pay and satisfy themselves accordingly."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10^a, Wednesday next.