House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 7 April 1643

DIE Veneris, 7 die Aprilis.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester was Speaker this Day.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about the Instructions to the Committee at Oxford.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Serjeant Whitfeild and Sir Edward Leech:

To desire a present free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, concerning the Matter of the late Conference, concerning the Instructions to be sent to the Committee at Oxon.

Countess of Rivers, a Pass to France renewed.

Ordered, That the Pass of the Countess of Rivers shall be renewed; and she to have Liberty to transport a Coach and Ten Horses into France with her.

Mr. Hooper, to attend the Commissioners about his Accompts.

Ordered, That Mr. Hooper shall have Liberty to attend the Commissioners appointed by this House, for the settling of Accompts between him and his Creditors, on such Days as the Commissioners sit, providing he go with his Keeper, and return every Night to the Prison where now he is.

Mr. Nalton recommended to the Church of St. Leonard's, Foster Lane.

Upon the Petition of the Inhabitants of St. Leonards Foster Lane, London; it is Ordered, That Mr. James Nalton is hereby recommended to the Bishop of London, to be instituted and inducted Minister of the said Parish.

Lord Newnham, Leave to see his Father in the Country.

Ordered, That the Lord Newneham hath Leave to go into Warwickeshire, to see the Earl of Denbigh his Father, who is wounded, and shall have a Pass to go and return quietly.

Mr. Forrest, & al. a Pass.

Ordered, That Mr. Rob't Forrest Esquire, with John Vincent a Solicitor, and Mr. Forrest's Man, shall have a Pass, to travel into Worcestershire, and return again to London.

Next, these Orders concerning Ireland (fn. 1) were read, and passed.

Orders concerning Ireland, from the H. C. for Concurrence.

1. An Order to pay to George Wood, Commissary, Two Hundred Fourteen Pounds, Thirteen Shillings, and Seven Pence. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

2. An Order to pay Twenty-four Pounds, Eleven Shillings, and Six Pence, to John Butler, for Butter. (Here enter.)

Agreed to.

3. An Order to pay One Hundred Thirty-two Pounds to Edward Lugg, for Herrings. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Order to pay Fifty-five Pounds, Eighteen Shillings, and Nine Pence, to Margery Hassard, for Butter. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

5. An Order to pay Forty-eight Pounds to Thomas Hooke, for Herrings. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Words spoken by Mr. Marten, at the Conference, touching the Privileges of this House.

Then this House took into Consideration the Words spoken Yesterday by Mr. Marten, at the Conference. The Words were agreed upon to be these:

"I have something to deliver to your Lordships, in Behalf of the House of Commons; 'tis true, my Lords, that there are some Privileges belonging to the House of Peers, and others to the House of Commons; and this of Raising of Monies you have ever solely attributed to them, so as your Lordships have never refused to join with them, when they have brought up any Thing that concerns the Raising of Monies; and therefore they expect you would not now refuse to pass this Ordinance, without giving them very good Reasons."

And after some Debate hereof;

Committee to consider of vindicating the Privileges of the Peers.

These Lords following were appointed to consider of some fit Way, how to vindicate the Privileges of this House in this Particular:

Their Lordships, or any Seven, to meet when they please.

Earl of Suffolk's Horses to be restored.

Ordered, That the Horses of the Earl of Suffolke's, taken away by the Troopers, not knowing they were his Lordship's, shall be restored to the Earl of Suffolke again, they being now in the Troop of Colonel Fiennes.

Tho. Jenyns and Sir Phill. Vernatti.

Upon reading the Petition of Thomas Jenyns Esquire, desiring, "That some speedy Time may be appointed, for reading of the Certificate, and final Hearing and Determining of the Cause between (fn. 2) him and Sir Fillibert Vernatti; and that the Petitioner may have Liberty to take his legal Course, by Way of Arrest, to secure the Person of the said Sir Fillibert, to be responsible for the Debt:"

Hereupon this House Ordered, That this House will hear this Cause To-morrow come Sevennight; and the said Sir Phillibert Vernatti to have Notice of it, by leaving Word where he is in Custody; and, if the said Sir Phillibert Vernatti shall not appear accordingly, that then the said Tho. Jenyns shall have free Liberty to take his Course against him, according to the Course of the Law, notwithstanding any Protection of this House.

Message from the H. C. for a further Conference about the Instructions to the Committee at Oxford.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Tho. Barrington:

To desire a Free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Matter of the last Conference.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a Free Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Conference reported.

The Speaker reported the Effect of the Conference; which was, "That the House of Commons adheres to the Passing of the Clause in the Instructions, as it came from them:

Reasons of the H. C. for adhering to the additional Clause in the Instructions;

"1. Because it will be a Means to avoid Delay in the Treaty, and to make good Use of the short Time they have to treat.

"2. It will be a Means to satisfy the Jealousies of some as doubt that the Parliament will not be constant to their Resolution, and so they withdraw their Contributions.

and for their Speaker signing the Letter.

"And concerning the Speaker of the House of Commons subscribing the Letter with the Speaker of this House, the House of Commons say, That for the present they desire their Speaker may subscribe; and, when their Lordships shall make it appear by Precedent that it hath not (fn. 3) been usually done, and that it is contrary to the Privileges of this House, the House of Commons will be very tender and respectful of their Lordships Privileges therein."

Hereupon this House Ordered, To agree to (fn. 4) the Instructions, as they are brought up from the House of Commons.

Ordered, That this House gives Way, that the Speaker of the House of Commons do subscribe the Letter with the Speaker of this House for this Time; with a Salvo, that it shall not be any Prejudice to the Privileges of the House of Peers.

Answer to the H. C.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went into the Painted Chamber, to the House of Commons, to let them know, that this House agrees with the House of Commons in the Instructions to be sent to the Committee at Oxford, with the Clause in Question; and that their Lordships are willing, for the present, to give (fn. 4) Way that the Speaker of the House of Commons do subscribe to the Letter with the Speaker of this House for this Time, with a Salvo to the Rights of Privileges of the House of Peers.

House resumed.

"A further Addition of Instructions, agreed upon by the Lords and Commons in Parliament, for Algernone Earl of Northumberland, &c. Committees of both Houses at Oxford.

Additional Instructions for the Commitees at Oxon.

"You are hereby to take Notice, that the Two Houses have considered His Majesty's Answer to their Reasons concerning the Cessation, wherein there are divers Expressions which reflect much upon the Honour and Justice of the Houses, and might occasion particular Replies; yet, at this Time, they desire to decline all Contestation, their Wishes and Endeavours being earnestly bent upon the obtaining a speedy Peace; for which Cause, they do not think good to consume any more of that Time allowed for the Treaty in any further Debates upon the Cessation, concerning which they find His Majesty's Expressions so doubtful, that it cannot be suddenly or easily resolved; and the Remainder of the Time for the whole Treaty being but Seven Days, if the Cessation were presently agreed, it would not yield any considerable Advantage to the Kingdom.

"Wherefore you shall desire His Majesty, that He will be pleased to give a speedy and positive Answer to their First Proposition concerning the Disbanding, that so the People may not only have a Shadow of Peace in a short Time of Cessation, but the Substance of it in such Manner as may be a perpetual Blessing to them, by freeing the Kingdom from these miserable Effects of War, the Effusion of innocent Blood, and Desolation of many Parts of the Land.

"For obtaining of which Happiness, the Lords and Commons have Resolved to enlarge your Power; that, if you shall not have fully agreed upon the Two First Propositions before Friday Night, you may, notwithstanding any former Restraint, proceed to treat upon them according to the Instructions formerly given you, although the Articles of the Cessation are not agreed upon.

"And those Two First Propositions being concluded, the Two Houses will thereupon give you further Instructions to proceed to the other Propositions, that so the whole Treaty may be determined within the Twenty Days formerly limited, to be reckoned from the 25th of March last (which can admit no Alteration or Enlargement, (fn. 5) without manifold Prejudice and Danger to the whole Kingdom)."

Order for 132l. to Edward Lugg, for Herrings.

"It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers Monies, upon Subscriptions for Lands in Ireland, do, out of those Monies, pay unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for Ireland, the Sum of One Hundred Thirty-two Pounds, that is to say, Sixty-six Pounds in Part thereof upon the 20th Day of June next, and Sixty-six Pounds more in full thereof upon the 20th Day of September next, to be by him paid over, at those respective Times, unto Edward Lugg, or his Assigns, for One Hundred and Twenty Barrels of Herrings, by him delivered into His Majesty's Stores at Dublin, at the Rate of Twenty-two Shillings the Barrel, as appeareth by the Certificate of Sir Phillip Percivall, Commissary of the Victual there, and testified by Sir Adam Loftus Knight, Treasurer at Wars, and is according to an Ordinance of Parliament in that Behalf published in Print."

Order for 24l. 11 s. 6 d. to John Butler, for Beef.

"Whereas it appeareth, by the Certificate of John Fountaine, Commissary of the fixed Magazine of Victuals for His Majesty's Army in Munster, bearing Date the 24th Day of October last, testified under the Hand of the Lord Dungarvon, Governor of Youghall, that John Butler, of Exeter, Merchant, hath delivered into His Majesty's Stores at Youghall, Fourteen Hundred, Three Quarters, and Sixteen Pounds of Butter, at the Rate of Thirty-three Shillings the Hundred, amounting to Twenty-four Pounds, Eleven Shillings, and Six Pence, to be paid to the said John Butler, or his Assigns, out of the Chamber of London, within Thirty Days after Sight of the said Certificate (the Second not being paid), according to the Order of Parliament in that Behalf published in Print: It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money for Ireland do pay unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the said Sum of Twenty-four Pounds, Eleven Shillings, and Six Pence, to be by him paid over to the said John Butler, or his Assigns, upon the 6th Day of April next ensuing the Date hereof, in full Satisfaction of the said Butter so delivered as is certified, and according to the said Order of Parliament in that Behalf."

Order for 48l. to Thomas Hooke, for Butter.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money, upon Subscriptions for Lands in Ireland, do pay unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the Sum of Forty-eight Pounds, upon the 20th Day of April next, to be by him forthwith paid over unto Thomas Hooke, of Dublin, Merchant, or to Mr. Thomas Downes his Assignee, for Thirty Barrels of Herrings, at Twenty-four Shillings the Barrel, delivered by Mr. Adam Talbott (and Ten Barrels of Herrings, at the same Rate, delivered by Mr. Toby Sheale), into His Majesty's Stores at Dublin, making in all the said Sum of Forty-eight Pounds, as appeareth by the Certificate of Sir Phillip Percivall Knight, Commissary General of the Victual of His Majesty's Army in Ireland, dated the 31st Day of January, and testified by Sir Adam Loftus Knight, Vice Treasurer and Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, and according to the Ordinance of Parliament in that Behalf published in Print."

Order for 55l. 18s. 9d. to Margery Hassard, for Wheat, Butter, Pease, &c.

"Whereas it appeareth, by the Certificate of John Fountaine, Commissary of Victual for the Army in Munster, dated the 13th Day of January last, testified under the Hand of the Right Honourable the Earl of Corke, presented to the Committee appointed to take Care of the Affairs of Ireland, that Margery Hassard, Widow, of Youghall, hath delivered into His Majesty's Stores there Twenty Barrels of Wheat, at the Rate of Nineteen Pounds, Eight Shillings; Twenty-two Barrels of Peas, at the Rate of Twentythree Pounds, Two Shillings; and Three Casks of Butter, containing Three Hundred, Three Quarters, at Thirty-three Shillings per Hundred, being Six Pounds, Three Shillings, Nine Pence; and Five Barrels of Beef, at the Rate of Six Pounds, Five Shillings, amounting in all to Fifty-four Pounds, Eighteen Shillings, Nine Pence, Sterling, to be paid in London, to the said Margery Hassard, or her Assigns, within Thirty Days after Sight of the said Certificate, being the Second (and the First not being paid), according to the Order of Parliament in that Behalf published in Print: It is now Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money for Ireland do forthwith pay unto Mr. Nicholas Loftus, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the said Sum of Fifty-four Pounds, Eighteen Shillings, and Nine Pence, to be by him paid over to the said Margery Hassard, or her Assigns, in full Satisfaction for the said Wheat, Peas, Butter, and Beef, so delivered as is certified, and according to the Order of Parliament in that Behalf."

Order for 214l. 13 s. 7d. to George Wood. for Cloathing.

"Whereas it appeareth to the Committee appointed to take Care of the Affairs of Ireland, by the Accompt of George Wood, Commissary in this Kingdom, for the providing and sending of Cloaths and other Provisions into Ireland, that he hath disbursed, for the Package and Carriage of divers Particulars mentioned in his said Accompt, before the 19th Day of October last, at reasonable Rates, the Sum of Seventynine Pounds, Seventeen Shillings, and Seven Pence; and that there is due unto him, as Commissary aforesaid, from the last Day of February, 1641, to the First Day of February, 1642, making Three Hundred and Thirty-seven Days, which, at the Rate of Eight Shillings per Diem for himself and Clerk, as other Commissaries are allowed, making One Hundred Thirty-four Pounds, Sixteen Shillings, and amounting in the whole to the Sum of Two Hundred Fourteen Pounds, Thirteen Shillings, Seven Pence: It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money for Ireland do forthwith pay unto Nicholas Loftus, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the said Sum of Two Hundred and Fourteen Pounds, Thirteen Shillings, and Seven Pence, to be by him paid over unto the said George Wood, in full of his said Accompt of Disbursements, and for his Allowances as Commissary, due unto the First Day of February last past."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10^a cras.