House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 12 March 1642

DIE Sabbati, videlicet, 12 die Martii.

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Leycester, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, was appointed to be Speaker of the House this Day.

Report of the Declaration presented to the King.

The Lords that were appointed to present the Declaration to the King reported, "That they have presented the same to His Majesty on Wednesday last, at Newmarket; and on Thursday they received this Answer from His Majesty;" which was read, in hæc verba: videlicet,

The King's Answer to the last Declaration about Fears and Jealousies.

"I am confident that you expect not I should give you a speedy Answer to this strange and unexpected Declaration; and I am sorry (in the Distraction of this Kingdom) you should think this Way of Address to be more convenient than that proposed by My Message of the 20th of January last to both Houses.

"As concerning the Grounds of your Fears and Jealousies, I will take Time to answer them particularly; and doubt not but I shall do it to the Satisfaction of all the World.

"God, in His good Time, will (I hope) discover the Secrets and Bottoms of all Plots and Treasons; and then I shall stand right in the Eyes of all My People. In the mean Time, I must tell you that I rather expected a Vindication for the Imputation laid on Me in Mr. Pym's Speech, than that any more general Rumours and Discourses should get Credit with you.

"For My Fears and Doubts, I did not think they should have been thought so groundless or trivial, whilst so many seditious Pamphlets and Sermons are looked upon, and so great Tumults are remembered, unpunished, uninquired into. I still confess My Fears; and call God to Witness that they are greater for the true Protestant Profession, My People, and Laws, than for My own Rights or Safety; though I must tell you, I conceive that none of these are free from Danger.

"What would you have? Have I violated your Laws? Have I denied to pass any One Bill for the Ease and Security of My Subjects? I do not ask what you have done for Me.

"Have any of My People been transported with Fears and Apprehensions? I have offered as free and general a Pardon as yourselves can devise. All this considered, there is a Judgement from Heaven upon this Nation, if these Distractions continue.

"God so deal with Me and Mine, as all My Thoughts and Intentions are upright, for the Maintenance of the true Protestant Profession, and for the Observation and Preservation of the Laws of this Land; and I hope God will bless and assist those Laws, for My Preservation.

"As for the additional Declaration, you are to expect an Answer to it, when you shall receive the Answer to the Declaration itself."

This being read; the House Ordered, That it shall be communicated to the House of Commons; and accordingly it was presently sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page.

Attorney General appeared again with his Counsel.

Next, Mr. Attorney General was called in, with his Counsel, to proceed in his Defence; and first, Mr. Serjeant Pheasant made it his humble Petition to this House, "That, in regard this Business requires so much Pains to attend, which, by reason of the many Infirmities of Body, he is not able to perform, he desires their Lordships Favour, that he may be dispensed withall from being of Counsel with Mr. Attorney in this Cause."

Which this House, upon the aforesaid Reasons, dispensed with; and Ordered the same accordingly.

After this, Mr. Serjeant Greene also said, "That he, being assigned by this House to be of Counsel with Mr. Attorney General in this Business on Thursday, he submits to their Lordships Order, and hath been at divers Meetings with the rest of Mr. Attorney's Counsel; but he finds the Business so intricate to be put into a Method in so short a Time, and the Records to be perused are so many, that he cannot, upon such a short Warning, adventure to take upon him to make the Defence; therefore humbly desired, that their Lordships would please to excuse him at this Time, and give some further Time for him to prepare himself for to make the Defence."

And Mr. Attorney and his Counsel being withdrawn, the House took this Desire into Consideration; and, after Debate, whether Mr. Attorney's Business should be proceeded in now, according to the Order of this House made on Thursday last; it was put to the Question, and Resolved,

That this House will proceed in Mr. Attorney's Business now presently, according to the Order of this House on Thursday last.

Then Mr. Attorney General and his Counsel were called in; and the Speaker, by the Directions of this House, told Mr. Attorney, "That the House had resolved to proceed in his Business now presently, and expected he should make his Defence."

Hereupon Mr. Herne, Counsel with Mr. Attorney, desired, "That the Impeachment against Mr. Attorney, and his Answer thereunto, may be once more read;" which were read accordingly.

Message from the H. C. with the Bill for raising Monies for Defence of the Kingdom.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Wyld; who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for the raising and levying of Monies, for the necessary Defence and great Affairs of the Kingdoms of England and Ireland; and for the Payment of Debts undertaken by the Parliament;" which he was commanded to desire their Lordships to give Expedition therein, because it is a Bill of great Importance.

And for the Lords to fit P. M.

2. The House of Commons desired, that their Lordships would be pleased to sit this Afternoon, because the House of Commons intend to come up to their Lordships, about some important Business.

The Answer returned to the Messengers was:

Answer.

That this House will take the Bill now brought up into speedy Consideration, and will sit this Afternoon, as is desired.

Powell sent for, for printing a false Letter of the Queen's to Ld. Digby.

Upon Complaint made to this House, "That there is printed and published abroad a supposed Letter, which the Queen should write to the Lord Digby, in Answer to his Letter, which feigned Letter is scandalous to Her Majesty;" it is thereupon Ordered, That the Gentleman Usher, or his Deputy, shall attach the Body of Thomas Powell, the Printer of the said Letter, and bring him before this House, that so the Author and Contriver of the Letter may be found, that so they may receive such Punishments as this House in Justice shall think fit to impose upon them.

Attorney General to attend this Afternoon.

Ordered, That Mr. Attorney General shall attend again, with his Counsel, this Afternoon, at Two of the Clock, at which Time this House will proceed further in hearing his Defence.

Adjourn.

Comes de Leycester declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse in post meridiem hujus instantis diei, hora 2^a, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Post meridiem.

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Leycester, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, was appointed by this House to be Speaker this Afternoon.

Ld. Pagett's Commission for Bucks.

The Lord Pagett delivered in his Commission of Lieutenancy for the County of Bukingham.

Attorney General's Counsel released.

Upon the humble Petitions of Sir Tho. Bedding feild, Knight, and Sir Tho. Gardiner, Recorder of the City of London, acknowledging their Lordships Order to be just, and desiring that their Offences may be remitted, and Order for their Enlargement; it is Ordered, That the said Sir Tho. Beddingfeild and Sir Tho. Gardiner shall be forthwith released of and from their present Restraint and Imprisonment in The Tower of London.

His Defence.

Next, Mr. Attorney, with his Counsel, were called in; and the Speaker having told the Counsel that they should proceed in making Mr. Attorney's Defence, Mr. Herne proceeded; and said, "That, for the Matter of Fact, nothing appears by Way of Charge but the exhibiting of the Articles; and that no Witness was produced in all the Cause, to prove any Crime; and then there is but an Impeachment, and a Denial, and no Act proved, but what is confessed, which is the exhibiting of the Articles:" And further alledged, "That whereas Mr. Attorney is charged to do the Fact maliciously, Mr. Attorney did nothing but by Command of the King, and knew not of the Articles until they were delivered to him by His Majesty."

Next, Mr. Chute, one other of Mr. Attorney's Counsel, said, "That it is the Duty of Mr. Attorney to prosecute the King's Causes in all Courts of Record, when he shall be called, and to be attendant in all the King's Matters." To this Purpose, he read Mr. Attorney's Oath.

Further he alledged, "That the King's Datum est intelligi, is Warrant enough to Mr. Attorney to proceed against any Person; as the Record of 4 Ed. III. Rot. 38, where Will. Archbishop of Yorke, upon Datum est Nobis intelligi, was brought before the King and His Council, and prosecuted by His Attorney General."

Then he urged the Report of the Judges in the Earl of Arundell's Cause, 1° et 2° Caroli Regis, 19 April 1626.

Also he said, "That the King's Attorney is bound, by his Oath, to proceed in all Courts of Record, though the King give him not Command; and that in Parliament he hath prosecuted a Commoner at large. As 33 Ed. I. Rot. 22. where Nicholas de Segrave was summoned by the Sheriff of North'ton to appear coram Domino Rege, in proximo Parliamento suo apud Westm. in primo Adventu Domini Regis ibidem, ad audiendum Voluntatem ipsius Domini Regis super biis quæ tunc ibidem proponere intenderet versus eum, et ad faciendum et recipiendum ulterius quod Curia Domini Regis consideraret in præmissis. The said Nic. Seagrave appearing in Parliament, he was prosecuted for the King, and accused by Nic. de Warrwyk, That he maliciously stirred up Discord and Contention against John de Crumbwell, who was employed by the King in the War against the Scotts. A Day being given to make Answer, Seagrave submitted, and acknowledged his Offence. Upon this, the King desired the Advice of the Lords what Punishment should be inflicted upon Seagrave for such a Fact, being so fully and expressly confessed: The Lords gave this Judgment, That, for this Fault, the said Segrave deserved to lose his Life; yet the King, out of His special Grace and Pity, remitted this Judgement of Life and Members, and granted that the (fn. 1) said Nic. Segrave should find seven good and sufficient Men to be Bail for him, Body for Body.

"In eodem Rot. the like Accusation was of Nic. de Kingston and Robert Achard.

"Also 4 E. III. N° 16, Sir Tho. Berkcley and John Mautravers were prosecuted in Parliament, for the Murder of King Ed. II. and were tried and quitted by a Jury.

"4 R. II. N° 17. Rause de Ferriers, Chivaler, was prosecuted in Parliament, upon Suspicion of Treason.

"So Parliament. 17 R. H. N° 20. Thomas Talbott, Chivaler, was accused in Parliament, for conspiring the Death of Two (fn. 1) of the King's Uncles."

The Counsel having spoken concerning the Matter of Fact; Mr. Attorney made his own Defence to that which concerned the Matter of Privilege of Parliament; and he cited the Case of the Earl of Arundle, and the Remonstrance made therein 19 April 1° and 2° Caroli.

Also he insisted upon the Case of the Earl of Bristoll, 1° et 2° Caroli. Then he cited the Case of Phillip Courtney, Anno 16° R. II. N° 6.

And concluded, "That he did not conceive any Thing urged against him can make up the Crime that he is charged with, but only the Vote passed by both Houses, touching the Breach of Privileges of Parliament;" and so submitted himself to the Justice of this House, and withdrew with his Counsel.

Message from the H. C. with the Bill for the speedy reducing the Rebels in Ireland.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Reynolds; who was commanded, to present a Bill to their Lordships, which hath passed the House of Commons; and they desired their Lordships Expedition herein. The Bill was intituled, "An Act for the speedy and effectual reducing of the Rebels in His Majesty's Kingdom of Ireland to their due Obedience to His Majesty and the Crown of England."

For Deputy Lieutenants to be named speedily.

2. That the House of Commons desire their Lordships would appoint a speedy Day for the Lord Lieutenants of the several Counties of England and Wales to deliver to the House of Commons the Names of such as they think fit to offer, to be Deputy Lieutenants, that so they may receive Approbation.

Ordered, That the Names of Deputy Lieutenants be delivered in upon Monday next.

And for the Lords Concurrence in the following Order.

3. That the House of Commons desired their Lordships Concurrence in an Order, which was read, as followeth:

Order to pay Mr. Loftus 2000£. for Ireland.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Treasurers appointed by the Act of Contribution and Loan, towards the Relief of His Majesty's distressed Subjects of the Kingdom of Ireland, do forthwith pay unto Mr. Nicholas Loftus, Deputy Treasurer at War for Ireland, or his Assigns, the Sum of Two Thousand Pounds, out of those Monies that are come in by virtue of that Act, to be issued out by the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland's Warrant, for the Service of that Kingdom."

Ordered, That this House agrees and joins with the House of Commons in this Order.

The Answer returned to the Messengers was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House agrees with the House of Commons in the Order for the Two Thousand Pounds, for the Service of Ireland; and that their Lordships have appointed, that the Names of the Deputy Lieutenants shall be delivered in on Monday next.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons by Mr. Morley:

A Message from the H. C. concerning some Words in the King's Answer.

To let their Lordships know, that they having perused the King's Answer in Print, to the Declaration of both Houses, they find that, in the Preface, there are these Words; videlicet, "I am confident that you expect not that I should give you a speedy Answer to this strange and unexpected Declaration;" which Words ["strange and unexpected"] the House of Commons conceives reflect much upon both Houses of Parliament; therefore they desire that their Lordships would join with the House of Commons, that the Declaration last presented to His Majesty, with the additional Reasons, be forthwith printed and published, for the Satisfaction of the Kingdom.

The Declaration to the King, and additional Reasons, to be printed.

The Consideration of this Desire took up some Debate; and, it being put to the Question, it was Resolved,

That this House doth join with the House of Commons, for the printing and publishing of the Declaration, and additional Reasons, last presented to the King.

Protest against it.

These Lords following, before the putting of the Question, desired Leave of the House to enter their Dissents to this Vote; which being granted, they accordingly entered their Dissents:

E. South'ton.
Ds. Dunsemore.

The Answer returned to the House of Commons by the Messengers was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House doth join with the House of Commons, That the Declaration, and the additional Reasons, last presented to the King, shall be printed and published.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Marten:

Message from the H. C. about settling the Commission for Ireland.

That their Lordships would please to give Expedition in the Instructions formerly brought up, for settling a Commission for the Affairs of Ireland.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will (fn. 2) take the said Instructions into Consideration, and give Expedition therein.

Adjourn.

Comes de Leycester declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Lunæ, videlicet, 14^m diem Martii, 1641, hora 8^a Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.