House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 27 November 1641

DIE Sabbati, videlicet, 27 die Novembris.

PRAYERS.

Mr. Shelden of Beely's Attendance dispensed with.

The House being this Day informed, by a Return made from the Messenger of this House, who was lately sent for Edward Sheldon, of Beeley, Esquire, and likewise by an Affidavit made of the Weakness and Inability of the said Mr. Sheldon to come and appear before this House, according to an Order in that Behalf directed; and likewise upon Signification of his great Desire to attend this House, if his Indisposition of Health would permit without Danger and Peril of his Life; it is thought fit, and so Ordered by this House, That the said Mr. Sheldon the Elder shall be dispensed with by this House, for his coming up and appearing before their Lordships, until the Pleasure of this House be further known, any Order of this House to the contrary notwithstanding: And lastly it is Ordered, That no Study, Closet, or other Doors, Chests, Trunks, or Boxes, in the House of the said Mr. Shelden, shall be locked or sealed up from him, or any others in his House, save only his own Study Door, which is to continue as it now is, until their Lordships give further Order therein.

William and Edward Shelden to attend.

Ordered, That William Shelden, Esquire, and Mr. Edward Shelden, do attend this House on Monday the 29th of November 1641, by One of the Clock in the Afternoon.

Conference to be had about them.

Hereupon it is thought fit (because the Information of this Business came from the House of Commons) to have a Conference with the House of Commons, to let them know that this House hath dispensed with Mr. Sheldon of Beely from coming, in regard he cannot come without Danger of his Life; but that his Two Sons are appointed to attend this House on Monday next.

Wingfield versus Hutton, etc.

Complaint being made to this House, "That one Wingfeild, Ensign-bearer to the Court of Guard, was struck and abused by William Huntley, George Hutton, and Richard Hughes; being commanded to do their Duties as Soldiers, they obstinately refusing to be commanded by the Corporal."

Hereupon it is Ordered (the Complaint being made good upon Oath), That the said William Huntley, George Hutton, and Richard Hughes, shall appear before this House upon Monday next, to answer the said Complaint.

Mr. Walter and his Wife.

Ordered, That the leaving of a former Order of this House, made between William Walter and Eliz. his Wife, dated the 10th of July 1641, at the House of the said William Walter, shall be, and shall (fn. 1) be taken to be, a sufficient Serving of the said Order upon the said Mr. Walter; and that he is hereby enjoined to obey the same, and to perform those Things on his Part therein mentioned, within the Space of Three Weeks next after the serving of this Order, as he will answer the contrary to this House.

Wotton's Case in the King's Bench, who was committed by the Star-chamber.

Whereas this Day this House was informed, on the Behalf of the Judges of the Court of King's Bench, "That one Wotton was heretofore committed by the Sentence and Decree of the Court of Star-chamber to the Prison of The Fleet, who yet lieth there, as well for his Offence, as for the King's Fine imposed upon him for the same; and that this Commitment was before the Beginning of this Parliament; and that this Day, as once before, the said Wotton, by his Counsel, desired a Habeas Corpus cum Causa, which was granted by that Court, returnable on Monday next; but, because the End of the said Wotton herein is to be delivered out of Prison, and the Judges of that Court conceived it to be a Case of great Importance, the said Judges humbly prayed the Directions of this House, for their better Proceedings, in respect of the late Act of Parliament made in this Session, concerning the Court of Star-chamber:" It is thereupon Ordered, That this House will take into their Consideration, and debate on Thursday next, how far the Decrees of the said late Court of Star-chamber, made before the making of the said late Act, shall be questioned; and that the Judges of that Court may, in the mean Time, forbear to deliver their Opinions, or to make any Rule in this Cause.

Report concerning the Irish Artillery;

The Lord Kymbolton reported from the Committees of both Houses for the Irish Affairs, "That a List of the Train of Artillery, as Officers and Workmen, was presented to the Committee; and they have taken the Wages and Pay of the said Officers into Consideration, and have thought it fit to refer the husbanding of the Wages to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, to be Ordered by him upon the Place, for the best Advantage of this State.

and Ships to guard their Coasts.

"That the Committee have considered of an Estimate, which was brought to them, of the Emptions of Four Ships, that are appointed to guard the Coasts of Ireland; and they have allowed to the Officers of the Ordnance, upon the Estimate, Five Hundred Forty Three Pounds, Ten Shillings, and Eleven Pence."

The Opinion of the Assistants to the Committees for Ireland, touching the Cavalry.

Next was read a Paper, containing the Reasons of the Assistants to the Committees for the Irish Affairs, "That it is necessary to have a Colonel and Serjeant Major of Horse, and not to leave the Cavalry in several Troops, without forming them in Regiments.

"1. By reason of the continual Debate that would otherwise arise amongst the Officers, and their Want of Obedience of one to another.

"2. For the more speedy Way, as well in issuing as receiving the Orders, for the better executing of any Commands.

"3. For the exacter Government and Ordering of the Troops, as well upon Service as at other Times.

"4. For the better Encouragement of worthy Men to undertake the Service, in Hope of Advancement; and that, at this very Instant, Men of Merit, that have had better Command, would be unwilling to serve in an inferior Condition than they had already.

"5. Though it be said that in Ireland Regiments will seldom come to fight in a Body, yet it may fall out otherwise; and then the Inconvenience might prove of greater Consequence than the Charge.

"6. In Holland, whilst the Troops were all single, yet, for the Time they were to render Service in the Field, they formed Regiments of them, which had their Colonels and Majors appointed for that Time; which though they had no certain Pay by those Places, yet they had other Advantages, by Governments, Commanderies, Companies of Foot, Quarters, and such like Things, to better their Condition; and at last the Prince of Orange found it more convenient to settle the said Command to Colonels and Majors, although it were to the greater Charge of the State.

"7. Finally, the general Practice of all Nations, as the Germans, Swedes, French, etc. which have tried all Manner of Ways, have (for the greater Conveniency, certainly) formed their Cavalry into Regiments; and most of them allow also a Lieutenant Colonel to every Regiment.

"This is the Opinion of the Council of Assistants for the Irish War."

All the aforesaid Particulars in this Report this House approves of.

Proceedings of the Parliament relative to the Irish Affairs to be communicated to the King.

Ordered, That there be an Account given to the King, how far the Parliament hath proceeded in the Affairs of Ireland, since the Time that His Majesty recommended the Care of the State of Ireland to the Parliament.

E. Rivers's Privilege. Stevens released.

This Day Robert Stevens, menial Servant of the Earl Rivers, being arrested, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament, by George (fn. 2) Benion, was brought before the Lords in Parliament; and an Information being read, touching scandalous Words, which the said Benion should speak of the Peers of this House, which being verified upon Oath, by the said Stevens, to be true; it is Ordered, That the said Stevens shall

Benion sent for.

be discharged from his present Imprisonment, by Privilege of Parliament, notwithstanding any Execution upon him; and that George Benion be sent for, to appear before this House forthwith, to answer the said Information against him.

After this, the Earl of Warwicke and the Lord Digby reported to the House the King's Answer touching the Petition of both Houses, for continuing the Guards: videlicet,

The King's Answer, touching the Guards about the Parliament.

"I did command the Guards to be dismissed, because I knew no Cause the Parliament had of Fears; but I perceived the Molestation that the keeping of them would bring upon those Subjects of Mine which were to perform that Service; besides the general Apprehensions and Jealousies which thereby might disquiet all My People: And I do expect, that, when the Parliament shall desire of Me any Thing like this extraordinary, and that which appears of ill Consequence, that they give Me such particular Reasons as may satisfy My Judgement, if they expect I should grant their Desire; yet I am so tender of the Parliament's Safety, to secure them not only from real but even imaginary Dangers, that I will command My Lord of Dorsett to appoint some of the Trained Bands, only for a few Days, to wait on both Houses; in which Time, if I shall be satisfied that there is just Reason, I will continue them, and likewise take such a Course for the Safety of My own Person, as shall be fit; of which I doubt not but that they have as tender a Care as of their own."

It was agreed, That this Answer be communicated to the House of Commons: To that Purpose, a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Sir Edward Leech:

Message to the H. C. for a Conference, about this, and Mr. Shelden's Business.

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the King's Answer concerning the Guards; and further to let them know, that, in regard of the great Age of Mr. Edward Shelden, he is not able to come up (fn. 3) without Danger of his Life, their Lordships having dispensed with the same, but have appointed Two of his Eldest Sons to attend this House upon Monday next.

The House of Commons return this Answer:

Answer.

That they will give a present Meeting, as desired.

Order for putting off Private Petitions;

Whereas, upon the Lords finding, that there are many Petitions depending in the House, and conceiving that many more may come in, which may occasion the Repair and Attendance of divers of His Majesty's Subjects at this Place, their Lordships have thought fit, and accordingly have Ordered it, That, because there are many Public Businesses of great Importance in Agitation, which concern the Safety and Weal of the Kingdom, that all Private Businesses be deferred and put off till the First Day of Hilary Term next; whereof their Lordships do hereby give public Notice to the whole Kingdom, to prevent the Charge and Trouble which otherwise the Petitioners might be put unto, in repairing hither: And further Ordered, That this be printed and published.

and dismissing those which are unfit for this House.

Ordered, That the Lords Committees for Petitions, or any Five of them, do meet on Wednesday Morning next, at Nine a Clock, and at such other Times as they please to appoint, and read over those Petitions as are already delivered into this House; and such as are proper to be relieved in Courts of Justice to be dismissed, and referred thither, but first to be reported to this House; and that the Committees have Power to appoint new Days for hearing of these Causes, after the First Day of Hillary Term, which have been put off by the general Order: And lastly, it is Ordered, That what Petitions shall come hereafter are to be delivered to the Committee, who are to present the same to the House, and not to the Clerk.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed. (fn. 4)