House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 7 August 1641

DIE Sabbati, videlicet, 7 die Augusti.

PRAYERS.

Letters from the L. General about the State of the Army.

A Letter was read, written from the Lord General to the Lord Chamberlain, concerning the State of the Army; and the Lord Chamberlain had Leave to acquaint the House of Commons with the same.

L. Capell introduced.

This Day the Lord Capell was introduced, in his Robes, between the Lord Pagett and the Lord Kymbolton; and, having delivered his Writ and Patent, upon his Knee, unto the Lord Keeper, it was delivered to the Clerk, who brought them to his Table, and read the Writ, dated the 6th of August, 17 Caroli Regis. Afterwards he was brought by the Lord Great Chamberlain and Garter, and placed next below the Lord Bruce.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Phillip Stapleton:

Message from the H. C. about disbanding the Army.

To desire their Lordships to join with them, to petition His Majesty for the speedy disbanding the Horse of His Majesty's Army; and likewise to desire their Lordships to move His Majesty, "That a Proclamation may issue forth, that none of those Troops shall travel above Six in a Company after they are disbanded, under Penalty of being proceeded with as Disturbers of the public Peace; that the Sheriffs and Justices of the Peace of the several Counties through which they pass shall be commanded, by the Proclamation, to take especial Care that the general Peace be not disturbed, and that the Soldiers lie not above One Night in a Place, unless it be in Case of Sickness, or other great Necessity;" and likewise to move their Lordships to write a Letter to the Lord General, for the speedy disbanding of the Horse, as the House of Commons intends to do, upon the Signification of His Majesty's Pleasure therein.

Committee to move the King concerning this.

Hereupon the Lord Marquis of Hertford, the Lord Chamberlain, the Earl of Warwicke, and the Lord Brooke, were appointed to attend the King presently, and move Him herein from both Houses.

The Answer returned to the House of Commons was:

Answer to the H. C.

That their Lordships have sent to His Majesty, to move Him concerning their Desires in the aforesaid Message.

Disbanding the King's Horse.

Ordered, That this House joins with the House of Commons, in disbanding the Horse of the King's Army forthwith.

The Lords which waited on His Majesty return with this Answer: videlicet,

The King's Answer about disbanding His Horse, and issuing a Proclamation to secure the General Peace on the disbanding.

"That His Majesty hath, ever since this Parliament, taken the Advice of His Parliament concerning His Army; therefore He gives His Consent concerning the disbanding of the Horse, and hath given Order that His Attorney shall issue out such a Proclamation as is desired.

And the Soldiers to be repaid for their Arms; and the Arms to be deposited in Magazines.

"And His Majesty doth recommend to the Parliament the Care of the disarming the Horse, that the Soldiers may be re-paid the Money which hath been taken from them for their Arms, that so armed Men may not disperse themselves, to the Disturbance of the Kingdom; and that the Arms may be restored to the Magazines, for the Defence of the King and this Kingdom."

Then a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Sir Edward Leech:

Message to the H. C. to communicate this to them.

To deliver the King's Answer aforesaid, to the House of Commons, in Writing.

Treaty between England and Scotland, Bill.

After this, the Act for the Treaty between this Kingdom and the Scotts was Twice read, and committed to the Lords Commissioners: And these Lords following were (fn. 1) added to the Committee: videlicet,

The Messengers, which were sent to the House of Commons, return with this Answer:

That they have delivered the King's Answer to the House of Commons, as they were commanded.

Opinion of the Judges, concerning the Regency.

The Lord Privy Seal reported the Opinion of the Judges concerning the Custos Regni, and the Commission to pass Bills in the King's Absence:

"1. Concerning the Custos Regni, they know not how to deliver any Opinion, it being of so high a Consequence.

"2. But concerning the Commission they hold it good, if it be fortified and backed with an Act of Parliament."

Upon this, the House agreed to have a Conference with the House of Commons.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Justice Foster and Justice Mallet:

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about this.

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the late Conference concerning the Custos Regni.

Letter from the Parliament of Ireland to the L. Keeper.

A Letter sent from the Parliament of Ireland, directed to the Lord Keeper, was read, and Ordered to be considered of with the former Letter.

The Answer from the House of Commons was:

Answer from the H. C.

That they will give a present Meeting, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

Opinion of the Judges about the Regency, to be communicated at the Conference.

The Lord Privy Seal was appointed to deliver at the Conference what he (fn. 2) reported as the Opinion of the Judges, concerning the Custos Regni and the Commission.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Lord Privy Seal reported, "That he had delivered at the Conference what he was commanded to speak."

Conference reported.

Then the Earl of Bristoll reported, "That the Lords Committees have considered of the Act of the Treaty with the Scotts, and have made some few Alterations;" which being read Thrice, were approved of.

The Title was read, and approved of: videlicet,

Treaty between Scotland and England, Bill.

"An Act for the Confirmation of the Treaty of Pacification between the Two Kingdoms of England and Scotland."

Ditto.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the Confirmation of the Treaty of Pacification between the Two Kingdoms of England and Scotland.

And, being put to the Question, it was Resolved to pass as a Law.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Stroude:

Message from the H. C. for a Conference about the King's Journey to Scotland.

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, presently, if it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency, touching the King's Journey to Scotland.

The Answer hereunto returned was:

Answer.

That this House is now in Debate of Business of great Consequence; but their Lordships will send a present Answer, by Messengers of their own.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Justice Foster and Justice Heath:

Further Answer.

To deliver to them the Act concerning the Treaty; and to let them know, that their Lordships will give them a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber, touching their last Message concerning the King's Journey into Scotland.

Thanks of the House to the Lords Commissioners.

Memorandum, This House this Day gave Thanks to the Lords Commissioners, for their great Pains and Care bestowed in the Treaty between us and the Scotts; and particular Thanks was given to the Earl of Bristoll, for his Service done to this Kingdom therein.

The Answer from the House of Commons to the Message is:

Answer from the H. C.

That they will give a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber.

Reporters of the Conference:

Lords to report the Conference.

The Lord Privy Seal,

Comes Bathon, and

The Bishop of Lincolne.

Committee to move the King about the Irish Acts.

Ordered, That the Lord Chamberlain, Earl of Bath, Earl of Bristoll, and the Lord Kymbolton, do move His Majesty from this House, "That all the Acts of Justice and Government, together with the Acts of Grace and Favour, concerning Ireland, be presented to His Majesty, to be signed; and that those Acts of Justice and Government which concerns the remedying of their Grievances, be presently transmitted into Ireland; and the other of Grace and Favour, to be detained here until the Parliament of England do further consider of the Letter sent lately from the Speaker of the Lords House of Parliament in Ireland."

Conference about the King's Journey.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Report of this Conference is deferred until this Afternoon.

A Message was sent from the House of Commons, by Mr. Hampden:

Message from the H. C. to fit P. M.

To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons intends to fit this Afternoon, and to desire this House would be pleased to sit likewise.

Answer hereunto is:

Answer.

That this House will sit this Afternoon, at Three Clock.

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius de Communi Banco, Locum tenens Domini Custodis Magni Sigilli, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in post meridiem hujus instantis diei, hora tertia, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Post meridiem.

PRAYERS.

The King will pass Bills this Afternoon.

The Earl of Warwicke signified to this House, "That His Majesty intends to come to the House at Five a Clock this Afternoon, to pass Bills."

Then the Lord Bishop of Lincolne reported the Conference this Morning with the House of Commons, concerning the King's Journey to Scotland:

Conference about the King's Journey reported.

That the House of Commons declared, that formerly (fn. 3) they desired the King would put off His Journey till the 10th of August, according to their former Resolutions of the 29th June last.

"The House of Commons say, they are desirous to submit to His Majesty in all Things; but they desire to represent to their Lordships the State of Matters how they stand, and desire that the King may be moved to defer His Journey for Fourteen Days longer; and that for these Reasons:

Reasons to stay the King's Journey.

"1. That the Treaty was but in Part concluded, neither could it be in (fn. 4) so short a Time.

"2. The Armies are not yet disbanded, nor could be because the Treaty is not yet concluded, notwithstanding the continual Endeavours on both Sides to perfect it; nor was it returned hither from the Parliament of Scotland till within these Three Days; but, now the Treaty is come, and ready to be finished, Monies are provided for the Payment of the Soldiers, and the Armies will be disbanded by that Time.

"3. The Distempers and Jealousies of the Kingdom (fn. 4) are so great and general, that they have no Hope to compose them, except His Majesty will be pleased to stay that Time, within which they assure themselves such Bills as are prepared for that Purpose will be ready for His Majesty's Royal Assent.

"4. It is not yet agreed upon, what Course shall be taken for the Government of the Kingdom in His Majesty's Absence, nor can be in so short a Time, there being so many weighty Things necessarily to be considered of.

"They doubt not but our Brethren of Scotland are so affectionate to the Good of this Kingdom, that, when they shall understand how necessary His Majesty's Stay so much longer will be, for putting us into a Condition of Safety, and to prevent divers Mischiefs and Inconveniencies to both the Kingdoms, they will be contented with this short Stay of His Majesty's Journey; and, if His Majesty shall think good to yield to this humble Desire of His Parliament here, they shall then move your Lordships to join with them, to send some Messengers into Scotland, to present this unto the Parliament there, which, they assure themselves, will give them full Satisfaction."

King present.

His Majesty was here in Person; and, sitting in His Chair of State, the House of Commons were sent for by the Gentleman Usher; who being come, with their Speaker, the King passed the Royal Assent to Four Public Bills, and Seven Private Bills: videlicet,

Public Bills were these:

Bills receive the Royal Assent.

1. An Act against divers Incroachments and Oppressions in the Stannary Courts.

2. An Act for the securing of such Monies as are or shall be due to the Inhabitants of the County of Yorke, and the other adjoining Counties, wherein His Majesty's Army is or hath been billeted, for the Billet of the Soldiers of the said Army; as also to certain Officers of the said Army, who do forbear Part of their Pay, according to an Order in that Behalf made in the House of Commons this present Session, for such Part of their Pay as they shall forbear.

3. An Act for the declaring unlawful and void the late Proceedings touching Ship-money, and for the vacating of all Records and Process concerning the same.

4. An Act for the Certainty of Forests, and of the Meers, Metes, Limits, and Bounds of the Forests.

The Clerk of the Crown having severally read the Titles of the aforesaid Bills, the Clerk of the Parliaments (by the King's Command) pronounced the Royal Assent to them particularly, in these Words:

"Le Roy le veult."

Then the Clerk of the Crown read the several Titles of these Private Bills following:

1. An Act for the settling of certain Manors, Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments, on Katherine Countess Dowager of Bedford, William now Earl of Bedford, John Russell and Edward Russell, Esquires, Sons of Francis Earl of Bedford, deceased.

2. An Act to enable Sir Alexander Denton, Knight, to sell the Manor of Great Barvard, alias Barford Saint Michaell, and other Lands in this present Act mentioned, for the Payment of his Debts, and Preferment of his younger Children.

3. An Act to settle the Manor of Belgrave, and other Lands, in the County of Leycester, to and upon William Byerly, Esquire, his Heirs and Assigns, for (fn. 5) and towards Payment of the Debts of William Davenport, Esquire, deceased.

4. An Act for John Eggar's Free-school, within the Parish of Alton, in the County of Southampton.

5. An Act for the Alteration of the Estate and Tenure of some Lands, within the Parish of Fulham, in the County of Middlesex, held of the Lord Bishop of London, as of the Manor of Fulham.

6. An Act for the making of the Chapel of Hoole, in the County of Lancaster, a Parish Church, and no Part of the Parish of Croston.

7.An Act for the Confirmation of His Majesty's Letters Patents to the Town of Plymouth, and for dividing the Parish and building of a new Church there.

And then the Clerk of the Parliaments to every particular Bill pronounced the Royal Assent, in these Words:

"Soit fait comme il est desire."

Ld. Keeper's Speech.

After this, the Lord Keeper, by the King's Command, made a short Speech.

Here enter it.

And then the King bid His Parliament Farewell, and so departed.

The Commons went to their House.

A Message was sent from the House of Commons, by Mr. Hollis:

Message from the H. C. for an Answer to their former Message about the Stay of the King's Journey to Scotland.

To desire an Answer to their Message brought (fn. 6) up this Morning at the Conference, concerning the staying of the King's Journey to Scotland for Fourteen Days longer.

The Answer hereunto was:

Answer.

That this House will send them a present Message, concerning this Message, by Messengers of their own.

Further Answer to be communicated at a Conference.

And, after some Debate hereof, the House Resolved, To have a Conference; and appointed the Lord Viscount Say & Seale to let the House of Commons know, That the Lords have considered of the Message, and have consented (but not resolved any Thing positively) to join to move His Majesty, that He will stay His Journey to Scotland for Fourteen Days longer, if it will stand with His Engagements; but, if His Majesty cannot stay Fourteen Days, then until Tuesday Afternoon, Six a Clock, that so the urgent Occasions for the Safety of this Kingdom may be settled.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Stroude:

Message from the H. C. to sit To-morrow.

To let their Lordships know, That they are debating of such Business as concerns the Safety and Good of this Kingdom; and that they are resolved to sit To-morrow Morning, at Eight a Clock, and desire their Lordships to sit likewise.

Ordered, That this House do sit To-morrow Morning, at Eight a Clock.

Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will likewise sit To-morrow Morning, at Eight a Clock, as is desired.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Serjeant Whitfeild and Serjeant Glanvile:

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about the King's Journey.

To desire a Free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, presently, in the Painted Chamber touching the King's Journey into Scotland.

Answer returned hereunto was:

Answer.

That the House of Commons will give a present Meeting, as is desired.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Hotham:

Message from the H. C. for a Conference about the Time of the King's Journey.

To desire a Free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Time of the King's Journey to Scotland.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give them a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

The Lord Privy Seal,

Earl of Bath,

Earl of South'ton,

Lord Viscount Say & Seale, and The Lord Bishop of Lincolne,

Were appointed to report the Conference.

Conference about the Time of the King's Journey to Scotland reported.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Earl of Bath reported, That, at the Conference, it was delivered, That the House of Commons have considered of their Lordships Proposition at the last Conference, concerning the Time of the King's Journey to Scotland; and, upon their former Reasons given, they do renew their Desires, that their Lordships would join with them, to move His Majesty for the staying of His Journey to Scotland Fourteen Days longer; for, in less Time, the great Affairs of this Kingdom cannot be settled, for the Safety of this Kingdom; and that their Lordships would join with them, that Messengers may be sent into Scotland, to present it to the Parliament there, and so they may order their Affairs accordingly."

For the better Consideration of this Message, this House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure; and, after a long Debate, the House was resumed; and it was Resolved, upon the Question, by the major Part,

The King to be moved to defer His Journey for 14 Days.

To join with the House of Commons, for moving His Majesty for putting off His Journey to Scotland for Fourteen Days longer, in the same Manner as was first proposed, and insisted upon at the last Conference by the House of Commons.

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius de Communi Banco, Locum tenens Domini Custodis Magni Sigilli, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Dominicum, videlicet, 8^m diem instantis Augusti, hora 8^a, Dominis sic decernentibus.