House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 4 June 1641

DIE Veneris, videlicet, 4 die Junii.

PRAYERS.

Inhabitants of Bunhill and the Artillery Men.

Ordered, That the Cause concerning the Inhabitants of Bunhill and the Artillery shall be heard on Wednesday next, before the Committee for Petitions.

Busby versus Smith in Error.

Ordered, That the Errors assigned in the Writ of Error depending in this House, between Busbie and Smith, shall be opened by Counsel on Monday Morning next, in this House.

Hawes's Cause to be heard.

Ordered, That Joseph Hawes's Cause shall be heard in open House on Friday next, the 11th of this Instant June, in the Morning.

Order between the E. of Nottingham, the E. of Peterborough and the E. of Middlesex.

Upon Report of the Cause between the Earl of Nottingham and the Earl of Peterborough and his Wife, and the Earl of Midd. "That the Opinion of the Committee was, That the Earl of Peterborough and his Lady be discharged from making any further Answer or Defence to this Petition of the Earl of Nottingham; and further, that the Earl of Midd. should have Time given him to answer in Michaelmas Term:" Hereupon the House confirmed the Opinion concerning the Earl of Peterborough and his Lady accordingly; and because the Earl of Nottingham alledged it might be much to his Prejudice to have it deferred so long as Michaelmas Term, the further Debate hereof is deferred until Tomorrow Morning; in the Interim, the Earl of Nottingham is to know of the Earl of Midd. how he can secure his Lordship, that he shall receive no Prejudice by deferring it until Michaelmas Term, in Case the Earl of Midd. dies.

Order for the E. of Lindsey, against the Rioters in Lincolnshire.

This Day Wm Claye, Thomas Abbott, Antho. Nicholls, Richard Roberts, Wm Roberts, and William Booth, were brought to the Bar, as Delinquents, for disobeying the Order of this House, served upon them in Lincolneshire, upon Complaint of the Right Honourable the Earl of Lindsey, for disturbing his Possession in the Fens, and breaking down his Hedges and Ditches, etc. Upon Proof hereof made, it is Ordered, That the aforesaid Persons do make their Acknowledgements and Submission for their said Offences here at the Bar, upon their Knees, and then give Bond for their good Behaviour not to commit the like Offence again; and, upon so doing, to be freed and discharged of the Restraint they now lie under.

Priestman sent for.

And, upon the Confession of the aforesaid Delinquents, "That Posthumus Preistman, an Attorney in that County, was an Abettor and Counsellor of them to the disobeying of the Order of this House," it is Ordered, That the said Preistman be sent for, to answer the same at the Bar, as a Delinquent.

E. of Lindsey's Order concerning the Fens.

Whereas several Orders have issued out of this House, for quieting the great Tumults, Disorders, and unlawful Assemblies, which have been made upon an Improvement in the Fens in the County of Lincolne, lying between Borne and Kyme; and that the Hedges and Ditches and Fences of the said improved Grounds should not be cast down or disturbed, nor Cattle put upon the Premises, to the Molestation and Disturbance of the Right Honourable the Earl of Lindsey, and his Tenants and Assigns, in their quiet Possession of the said Grounds; which Orders have not only been disobeyed, but contemned and rudely despised by many of the Inhabitants in these Parts; which the Lords in Parliament take for a great Dishonour. Now, forasmuch as, if these Tumults and riotous Courses shall not be timely prevented, it is conceived these Things will grow daily worse and worse; and the said Offenders may take unto themselves unsufferable Boldness, to the disquieting of the said Possessions, and to future great Inconveniencies, if they be not prevented; it is therefore thought fit, and so Ordered, That the High Sheriff and Under-sheriff of the said County of Lincolne, and likewise some of the Justices of the Peace of the said County, shall repair unto the said Places where these Riots and Disorders have been, taking with them such Persons as they shall think fit for the appeasing and quieting of the Possessions of the said improved Grounds; and it is further Ordered, That the Justices, Sheriff, and Under-sheriff, shall see and cause such Order to be taken, that the same Improvements be quietly held and possessed, by the said Owners, Tenants, and Farmers, in such Manner as they have held and enjoyed the same during the Space of Two Years last past before the Spoil of the Fences and disquieting the Possession as aforesaid. And lastly, that the said Justices, Sheriff, and Under-sheriffs, are hereby required to suppress and prevent all Manner of Disturbances of the said Possession, until the Houses of Parliament, or some other of His Majesty's Courts of Justice, shall give Order, or determine the contrary; and that, in the mean Time, none shall presume to disturb the quiet Possession of the said improved Grounds, either by throwing down of the Mounds, or wilfully turning in of their Cattle upon the Premises.

Order between Armstead and Warner.

Upon Report this Day unto this House from the Lords Committees for Petitions, "That their Lordships have considered of a Petition of George Warner, against Robert Armestead, concerning a Ship called The St. Jo. Baptist, some Time of Lubecke, and now of London; and that both Parties are agreed, and consent, that the said George Warner shall make a Bill of Sale for the said Ship unto the said Armestead, who is to pay the Sum of Nine Hundred Pounds unto him the said Warner for the same, by the 25th of June 1641, and shall pay him Eight Pounds per Cent. for the said Money, since the Time that it should have been paid; and that all the Artificers, as Shipwrights, Smiths, Carvers, and others, shall be paid before the Ship depart out of the River of The Thames, and all Engagements and Dues unto them to be taken off by the said Armesteed; and that, from and after this Agreement shall be perfected as aforesaid, it shall and may be lawful to and for the said Armesteed to have Workmen upon the said Ship, and to lade her with Goods for her Voyage; and lastly, that the said Ship shall be continued in the Hands and Possession of the Lord High Admiral, or his Marshal of the Admiralty, until these Agreements above-mentioned be fully perfected and performed on both Parts, which is to be done by the last Day of this Instant Month of June, or else the said Bill of Sale to be void, and of none Effect." All which this House Ordered accordingly.

Ld. Audley versus Ld. Cottington.

After this, the Counsel of the Lord Awdley and the Lord Cottington were further heard concerning Funthill; and being interrupted by a Message, it is Ordered, That the same Cause shall be further heard To-morrow Morning, and all Parties to attend again.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Jo. Clattworthy:

Message from the H. C. to desire the Lords to sit P. M.

To let their Lordships know, that they are now in Agitation of weighty Businesses of the Kingdom, concerning which they desire to have a Conference with their Lordships, but doubt they shall not be ready to come up this Morning; therefore desire their Lordships to fit this Afternoon, if it may stand with their Conveniency.

The Answer to the said Message is:

Answer.

That their Lordships will sit this Afternoon, at Three a Clock.

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius de Communi Banco, Locum tenens Domini Custodis Magni Sigilli, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in post meridiem hujus diei, hora tertia, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Post meridiem.

PRAYERS.

A Message was sent from the House of Commons, by the Lord Ruthin:

Message from the H. C. about restraining the Bishops from meddling in Secular Affairs.

To desire a Free Conference, with their Lordships, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the late Free Conference, for restraining the Bishops from intermeddling with Secular Affairs.

Affairs.

The Answer:

Answer.

That their Lordships will give a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber.

Lords to report the Conference.

Were appointed to report the Conference.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Conference reported.

The Lord Bishop of Lincolne reported the Conference; which was, "That the House of Commons delivered divers Reasons, that the Bishops ought not to have Votes in Parliament:

Reasons by the H. C. against the Bishops having Votes in Parliament.

"1. Because it is a very great Hindrance to the Exercise of their Ministerial Function.

"2. Because they do vow, and undertake, at their Ordination, when they enter into Holy Orders, that they will give themselves wholly to that Vocation.

"3. Because Councils and Canons, in several Ages, do forbid them to meddle with Secular Affairs:

"4. Because the Twenty-four Bishops have a Dependency on the Two Archbishops; and, because of their Oath of Canonical Obedience to them.

"5. Because they are but for their Lives; and therefore are not fit to have a Legislative Power over the Honours, Inheritances, Persons, and Liberties of others.

"6. Because of Bishops Dependency and Expectancy of Translations to Places of greater Profit.

"7. That several Bishops have of late much encroached upon the Consciences and Proprieties of the Subjects; and they and their Successors will be much encouraged still to encroach; and the Subject will be much discouraged from complaining against such Encroachments of Twenty-six, if that Order be to be Judges upon those Complaints. The same Reason extends to their Legislative Power in any Bill to pass for the Regulation of their Power upon any emergent Inconveniency by it.

"8. Because the whole Number of them is interested to maintain the Jurisdiction of Bishops, which hath been found so grievous to the Three Kingdoms, that Scotland hath utterly abolished it, and Multitudes in England and Ireland have petitioned against it.

"9. Because, the Bishops being Lords of Parliament; it setteth too great a Distance between them and the rest of their Brethren in the Ministry; which occasioneth Pride in them, Discontent in others, and Disquiet in the Church.

"To their having Votes a long Time:

"If inconvenient, Time and Usage are not to be considered with Law-makers. Some Abbots voted as anciently in Parliament as Bishops, yet are taken away.

"For the particular Jurisdictions of the Dean of Westm. the Bishops of Durham, Ely, and the Archbishop of Yorke, which they are to execute in their own Persons; the former Reasons shew the Inconveniencies therein.

"For their Temporal Courts and Jurisdictions, which are executed by their Temporal Officers, the Bill doth not concern them.

"Nor doth it reach to those Certificates of Plenarty of Benefices, Loyalty of Marriage, and the like, which Bishops make and return by Course of Common Law.

"That Argument taken from the Canons and Laws Ecclesiastical must be conceived as a Fight against the Bishops with their own Weapon, as a Kind of Goliah's Sword, to cut off Goliah's Head; but not as though the House of Commons did hereby justify the Legality of any of that Nature.

"That for the Provisos for the Universities and Temporal Lords, it may stand in the Bill, if it please their Lordships.

"It was added, That there is an Act in preparing for the regulating of the Universities; and this Proviso is but permitted to remain there by Way of Provision till that be effected."

This being ended, it is Ordered to be debated Tomorrow Morning.

Message to the H. C. that the Answers of Dr. Cosens &c. are put in.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Justice Foster and Mr. Justice Heath:

To let them know, that most of the Answers are brought in, to the Impeachment against Dr. Cosens and others, in the Cause of Mr. Peter Smarte.

Smithick versus The E. India Company:

Ordered, That the Petition of Tho. Smithicke, against the India Company, be referred to the Committee for Trade; and to meet on Wednesday next, in the Afternoon.

Ship-money to be restored.

Upon Information, "That divers Sheriffs had remaining in their Hands Monies, which were collected of the Counties for Ship-monies, and undisposed;" it is Ordered, That these Lords Committees following do consider and think of some Way to restore the Ship-money remaining in the Hands of any Sheriff or Under-sheriff, and other Officers, undisposed of, in every Shire, unto the several Persons from whom it was received; or else that it be employed in some Way for the Ease and Good of the Countries where it hath been collected: videlicet,

Their Lordships, or any Four of them, are to meet when and where they please.

Committee for Petitions.

Ordered, That some of the Committees for Petitions do meet every Morning, at Seven a Clock, to read Petitions; and to begin To-morrow in the Afternoon.

Cook versus Sir R. Dutton.

Ordered, That the Cause between Cooke, &c. against Sir Ralph Dutton and others, concerning the Abuse of pressing Soldiers, and levying Coat and Conduct-money in the County of Glocester, shall be taken into Consideration To-morrow in the Afternoon; and the Commission concerning that Business to be brought to the Lords Committees.

Mr. Bagshaw's Cause.

Ordered, That Mr. Bagshawe's Cause shall be heard before the Committee for Petitions, on Monday next, in the Afternoon.

E. of Westmeath's Cause.

Ordered, That the Earl of Westmeathe's Cause shall be heard on Monday next, in the Afternoon.

Sir D. Fowles's Cause.

Ordered, That Sir David Fowlis's Cause be heard on Wednesday next, in the Afternoon.

E. of Cleveland's Bill.

Ordered, That the Earl of Cleveland's Bill be further considered of on Tuesday next, in the Afternoon.

E. Mulgrave's Cause.

Ordered, That the Earl of Mulgrave's Cause be heard on Thursday next, in the Afternoon; and the Allom Farmers to have Notice of it.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return this Answer:

Answer from H. C.

That they have delivered their Message.

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius de Communi Banco, Locum tenens Domini Custodis Magni Sigilli, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Sabbati, videlicet, 5^m diem instantis Junii, 1641, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.