House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 23 March 1641

Die Martis, 23 die Martii.

PRAYERS.

Act to amend the Subsidy Bill.

The Lords Committees reported the Bill for mending the Mistake in the Bill, intituled, "An Act for Relief of His Majesty's Army, and the Northern Parts of this Kingdom, &c." as fit to pass as it is; and, being read the Third Time, it was put to the Question, and consented to, nemine contradicente.

Lords to move the King for the Royal Assent to this Bill.

And the Lord Steward, Lord Chamberlain, Earl of Holland, and the Earl of Berks, were appointed to move His Majesty, to give His Royal Assent to this Bill.

Orders for the Trial of the Earl of Strafford.

Ordered, That the Earl of Strafford is not to be admitted to speak at his Trial, before the House of Commons have fully managed their Evidence against him.

If a Witness gives in Evidence for the Commons; after the Evidence, the Earl of Strafford may ask the Witness Questions.

If the Earl of Strafford except against any Witness, he is to be heard before the Witness gives in his Evidence.

After this, the Lord Steward adjourned this House to Westm. Hall. Being sat there, the Lord Steward called for the Lieutenant of The Tower, to bring the Earl of Strafforde to the Bar.

Earl Strafford brought to the Bar.

The Prisoner being at the Bar, the Lord Steward told the Members of the Commons that managed the Evidence, That now they might begin their Evidence.

Mr. Pym opens the Preamble of his Answer.

Then Mr. Pim did open the Preamble of the Earl of Strafford's Answer, and signified, "That the Commons are ready to maintain their Charge against him, and desired that Witnesses might be sworn and heard."

Witnesses examined for the Commons against him.

The Names of the Witnesses which were sworn, and gave in Evidence, at the Instance of the House of Commons, against the Earl of Strafford:

He excepts against Sir Peirce Croseby; who is laid aside for the present.

Sir Peirce Croseby being produced to give his Evidence, the Earl of Strafford excepted against him, as not being a competent Witness, in regard it was alledged that he practised with others against him, for which he was sentenced in the Star-chamber here in England; the Commons laid him aside (but not waved him), and referred the Consideration of it unto the Lords; and proceeded upon the Testimony of other Witnesses.

Remonstrances from Ireland against him.

In the Evidence, was produced a Remonstrance, or Protestation, of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal of the Lords House of Parliament in Ireland, touching Part of the Preamble of the Act for Four Subsidies granted to His Majesty at the last Parliament of Ireland.

Likewise a Protestation from the House of Commons in Ireland, concerning the said Preamble to the Act, which was pressed and alledged to be surreptitiously got and procured by the Earl of Strafford, and produced by the Members of the Commons at the Trial, to prove that the Preamble was untrue; but not to charge it against him as a Criminal Thing.

He desires Time to answer these Remonstrances as they are not expected.

After Mr. Pim had finished the Evidence concerning this Particular, he desired, "That the Earl of Strafford may bring forth presently his Witnesses, if he hath any, to answer what hath been proved concerning the Preamble."

But the Earl of Strafford desired to have a little Time to consider of his Answer thereunto, pretending that the Remonstrances are against his Expectations, as not being in his Charge.

Whereunto Mr. Pim replied, "That it is concerning Matter which is in the Preamble of his own Answer; and therefore desired that, this being the proper Time for him, he may now maintain his own Assertions."

Adjourn to the Chamber of Parliament.

Hereupon there being Diversity of Opinions, the Lord Steward, by the Directions of the Peers, adjourned the House to the usual Place above; where the Lords fell into Debate, Whether the Earl of Strafford should have further Time given him to answer to the said Evidence against his Preamble, or answer presently. And it was Resolved by the Lords, That, if the Earl of Strafforde will, he may answer to the Preamble; but, because the Lords conceive it was not urged by the House of Commons by Way of Crime, but by Way of Truth, to disprove his Preamble, he is to answer to it presently.

Adjourn to Westm Hall.

Then the Lord Steward adjourned the House to Westm. Hall again.

No Lord to speak to the Prisoner at the Bar.

Ordered, That none of the Lords shall speak to the Prisoner at the Bar.

Earl of Strafford proceeds to his Answer.

The Peers being returned to Westm. Hall, the Lord Steward told the Earl of Strafford what their Lordships had resolved of; and then he proceeded to his Answer:

The Commons to go on with their Evidence Tomorrow Morning.

After which, Mr. Pim replied, "That the Commons do not doubt but to prove the Charge against the Earl of Strafford in every Particular; and desired, that they might go on to prove the Charge;" but, being late, the Lord Steward told them, "That they might go on To-morrow Morning; and their Lordships would sit by Nine a Clock."

Adjourn to the Chamber of Parliament.

Then the Lord Steward adjourned the House to the usual Place above.

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justicarius de Communi Banco, Locum tenens Domini Custodis Magni Sigilli, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in post meridiem hujus diei, hora tertia, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Post meridiem.

PRAYERS.

Letter from the Commanders in the Army to the Lord General read.

The Letter, which was sent from the Commanders of our Army, to the Lord General, was read; and the House was adjourned during Pleasure, to debate it; and, after some Consideration therein, the House was resumed, and referred to be further thought of after the Message.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Phillip Stapleton:

Message from the House of Commons, for a Conference about the Irish Army, disarming Recusants, &c.

To desire a Free Conference, presently, if it stands with their Lordships Conveniency, with a Committee of both Houses, touching the disbanding of the new Irish Army, the disarming of Recusants, and the removing of Papists from the Court.

Answer.

The Answer to the said Message was: That their Lordships will give a Meeting in the Painted Chamber, presently, as is desired.

Lords to report the Conference.

The Lord Privy Seal,
The Earl of Bath,
Earl of March,
Earl of Bristoll,
Lord Viscount Say & Seale.
The Lord Bishop of Lincolne,

Were appointed Reporters.

Conference reported.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Earl of Bath reported the Effect of the Conference; which was: "To desire their Lordships to join with the House of Commons, in humble Petition to His Majesty, for the disbanding the new Irish Army, the disarming of the Recusants, and the removing of the Papists from the Court, especially Four, Mr. Walter Mountague, Sir Kenelme Digby, Sir Toby Mathews, and Sir Jo. Winter; and the rather that, notwithstanding their Lordships had promised to join with the Commons in these Particulars a Month ago, yet One of them Yesterday did out-face both Houses of Parliament, which they could not but take Notice of; and seeing their Lordships were pleased (at the late Conference for their Advice about Monies for the supplying of the present urgent Necessities of both Armies) to tell them their Lordships would join with them in removing any Obstacle as may trouble and hinder the speedy effecting of so important a Business, which tends to the Peace and Safety of this Kingdom; the House of Commons doth think that this is a very great Impediment to their Desires of procuring Monies, and therefore desires their Lordships to join with them in humble Desire to His Majesty for the speedy effecting thereof."

Both Houses to address the King to disband the new Irish Army, &c.

Which said Message their Lordships taking into Consideration, did resolve, To join with the House of Commons in all the aforesaid Three Particulars, by way of humble Request to His Majesty.

Lords to attend the King, to know when He will receive this Address.

And the Lord Chamberlain, Earl of Bristoll, Earl of Holland, and the Lord Viscount Saye et Seale, were appointed to know of His Majesty what Day He will please to appoint both Houses to wait on Him, concerning the said Message.

Next a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Doctor Bennett:

Message to the House of Commons, for a Conference concerning the Subject of the late one.

To desire a Free Conference, presently, concerning the late Free Conference, and somewhat touching the English Army.

The Effect of the Conference.

And the Effect of the Conference was to be:

That whereas the Commons do put their Lordships in Mind of what they promised, which was, to join with them to remove all Obstacles that may lye in the Way for procuring of Monies to supply the urgent Occasions of both Armies; and that, seeing the Commons do take the disbanding of the new Irish Army, the disarming of English Recusants, and the removing of Recusants from the Court, especially Mr. Walt. Mountague, Sir Kenelme Digby, Sir Toby Mathews, and Sir Jo. Winter, to be a Furtherance to the getting of Monies, that their Lordships will join with the Commons in humble Petition to His Majesty, concerning the said Three Particulars; which their Lordships had in the General resolved on before, only did desire to consider de modo, how it might be done, and to that Purpose have had Conference with the Commissioners of Ireland about it; and that now they are ready to join with them to His Majesty therein: And to let them know their Lordships have appointed some Lords to attend His Majesty, to know what Time both Houses shall wait upon Him for that Purpose. And lastly, the Earl of Holland to deliver the Letter sent to the Lord General from the Army, which was, by the Command of His Majesty, to be communicated to both Houses of Parliament."

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justicarius de Communi Banco, Locum tenens Domini Custodis Magni Sigilli, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Mercurii, videlicet, 24^m diem instantis Martii, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Examinatur per nos Dominos,

Warwicke,
Hen. Dover,
Nich. Dunelm.
Phillip Wharton.