House of Lords Journal Volume 38: December 1788 21-31

Journal of the House of Lords Volume 38, 1787-1790. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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Citation:

'House of Lords Journal Volume 38: December 1788 21-31', in Journal of the House of Lords Volume 38, 1787-1790( London, 1767-1830), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol38/pp330-334 [accessed 21 November 2024].

'House of Lords Journal Volume 38: December 1788 21-31', in Journal of the House of Lords Volume 38, 1787-1790( London, 1767-1830), British History Online, accessed November 21, 2024, https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol38/pp330-334.

"House of Lords Journal Volume 38: December 1788 21-31". Journal of the House of Lords Volume 38, 1787-1790. (London, 1767-1830), , British History Online. Web. 21 November 2024. https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol38/pp330-334.

In this section

December 1788 21-31

DIE Martis, 23o Decembris 1788.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Archiep. Ebor.
Epus. Londin.
Epus. Hereford.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Glocestr.
Epus. Landaven.
Epus. Carliol.
Epus. Meneven.		 Dux York.
Dux Gloucester.
Dux Cumberland.
Ds. Thurlow, Cancellarius.
Comes Camden, Præses.
March. Stafford, C. P. S.
Dux Chandos, Senescallus.
Dux Richmond.
Dux St. Alban's.
Dux Ancaster & Kesteven.
Dux Bridgewater.
Dux Montagu.
March. Lothian.
March. Townshend.
Comes Salisbury, Camerarius.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Chesterfield.
Comes Sandwich.
Comes Essex.
Comes Carlisle.
Comes Doncaster.
Comes Abingdon.
Comes Rochford.
Comes Coventry.
Comes Morton.
Comes Moray.
Comes Selkirk.
Comes Breadalbane.
Comes Hopetoun.
Comes Oxford & Mortimer.
Comes Aylesford.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Stanhope.
Comes Macclesfield.
Comes Kerr.
Comes Effingham.
Comes Harrington.
Comes Fauconberg.
Comes De la Warr.
Comes Bathurst.
Comes Ailesbury.
Comes Abergavenny.
Comes Leicester.
Comes Uxbridge.
Comes Talbot.
Comes Strange.
Comes Howe.
Viscount Falmouth.
Viscount Maynard.
Viscount Mount Edgcumbe & Valletort.		 Ds. Osborne, Unus Primariorum Secretariorum.
Ds. Sydney, Unus Primariorum Secretariorum.
Ds. Willoughby Br.
Ds. Howard de Walden.
Ds. Clifton.
Ds. Kinnaird.
Ds. Onslow & Cranley.
Ds. Montfort.
Ds. Chedworth.
Ds. Fortescue.
Ds. Scarsdale.
Ds. Boston.
Ds. Ducie.
Ds. Sundridge.
Ds. Harrowby.
Ds. Loughborough.
Ds. Walsingham.
Ds. Bagot.
Ds. Rawdon.
Ds. Bulkeley.
Ds. Sommers.
Ds. Delaval.
Ds. Hawkesbury.
Ds. Dover.

PRAYERS.

Conference desired by H. C. on a Matter of high Importance to the Nation:

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by the Marquis of Worcester and others:

To desire a Conference with this House upon a Matter of High Importance to His Majesty and the Nation.

Conference agreed to:

To which the House agreed.

And the Messengers were called in again, and told, "That the Lords do agree to a Conference as desired, and appoint it presently in the Painted Chamber."

Managers appointed:

The Lords following were named Managers of the Conference; (videlicet)

Ld. President.
Ld. Privy Seal.
D. Richmond.
M. Townshend.
Ld. Chamberlain.
E. Chesterfield.
E. Coventry.
E. Morton.		 L. Bp. London.
L. Bp. Hereford.
L. Bp. Gloucester.		 L. Osborne.
L. Sydney.
L. Howard de Walden.
L. Bagot.
L. Sommers.
L. Hawkesbury.

The House being informed, "That the Managers for the Commons were ready for the Conference in the Painted Chamber:"

The Names of the Managers for this House were called over.

And the House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference;

Which being ended, The House was resumed:

Conference reported.

And the Lord President reported, "That they had met the Managers for the Commons at the Conference, which, on their Part, was managed by the Marquis of Worcester, who acquainted the Managers for the Lords, that upon Consideration of a Matter of High Importance to His Majesty and the Nation, they had come to several Resolutions; to which they desire the Concurrence of this House."

Resolutions delivered at the Conference.

Which Resolutions are as follow; (videlicet)

"Resolved, That it appears to this House, that His Majesty is prevented by His present Indisposition from coming to His Parliament, and from attending to Public Business, and that the Personal Exercise of the Royal Authority by His Majesty is thereby for the present interrupted."

"Resolved, That it is the Right and Duty of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons of Great Britain now assembled, and lawfully, fully, and freely representing all the Estates of the People of this Realm, to provide the Means of supplying the Defect of the Personal Exercise of the Royal Authority arising from His Majesty's said Indisposition, in such Manner as the Exigency of the Case may appear to them to require."

"Resolved, That for this Purpose, and for maintaining entire the Constitutional Authority of the King, it is necessary that the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons of Great Britain, should determine on the Means, whereby the Royal Assent may be given in Parliament to such Bills as may be passed by the Two Houses of Parliament, respecting the Exercise of the Powers and Authorities of the Crown, in the Name and on the Behalf of the King, during the Continuance of His Majesty's present Indisposition."

And the said Resolutions being read by the Clerk;

State of the Nation to be considered:

Ordered, That this House will resolve itself into a Committee on Friday next, to take into Consideration the State of the Nation; and that the Lords be summoned.

Message of H. C. and Papers referred.

Ordered, That the said Message and Resolutions be referred to the said Committee.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee appointed to examine the Physicians who have attended His Majesty during His Illness, touching the State of His Majesty's Health be referred to the said Committee.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee appointed to examine and report Precedents of such Proceedings, as may have been had in the Case of the Personal Exercise of the Royal Authority being prevented or interrupted by Infancy, Sickness, Infirmity, or otherwise, with a View to provide a Remedy for the same, be referred to the said Committee.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Veneris, vicesimum sextum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Veneris, 26o Decembris 1788.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Archiep. Cantuar.
Archiep. Ebor.
Epus. Londin.
Epus. Duresm.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Hereford.
Epus. Bath. & Wells.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Petriburg.
Epus. Wigorn.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Glocestr.
Epus. Landaven.
Epus. Bristol.
Epus. Lincoln.
Epus. Carliol.
Epus. Cestrien.
Epus. Meneven.		 Dux York.
Dux Cumberland.
Ds. Thurlow, Cancellarius.
Comes Camden, Præses.
March. Stafford, C. P. S.
Dux Norfolk, Marescallus.
Dux Chandos, Senescallus.
Dux Richmond.
Dux Beaufort.
Dux St. Alban's.
Dux Bedford.
Dux Devonshire.
Dux Brandon.
Dux Portland.
Dux Bridgewater.
Dux Newcastle.
Dux Northumberland.
Dux Montagu.
March. Lothian.
March. Lansdown.
March. Townshend.
Comes Salisbury, Camerarius.
Comes Derby.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Suffolk & Berkshire.
Comes Exeter.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Westmorland.
Comes Peterborough & Monmouth.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Winchelsea & Nottingham.
Comes Chesterfield.
Comes Sandwich.
Comes Essex.
Comes Carlisle.
Comes Doncaster.
Comes Shaftesbury.
Comes Abingdon.
Comes Gainsborough.
Comes Plymouth.
Comes Scarbrough.
Comes Rochford.
Comes Coventry.
Comes Jersey.
Comes Poulet.
Comes Cholmondeley.
Comes Morton.
Comes Eglintoun.
Comes Cassillis.
Comes Moray.
Comes Galloway.
Comes Selkirk.
Comes Breadalbane.
Comes Hopetoun.
Comes Oxford & Mortimer.
Comes Dartmouth.
Comes Tankerville.
Comes Aylesford.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Stanhope.
Comes Macclesfield.
Comes Kerr.
Comes Waldegrave.
Comes Effingham.
Comes Harrington.
Comes Brooke & Warwick.
Comes Bucks.
Comes Fitzwilliam.
Comes Harcourt.
Comes Hertford.
Comes Darlington.
Comes Fauconberg.
Comes Ilchester.
Comes De la Warr.
Comes Radnor.
Comes Spencer.
Comes Bathurst.
Comes Ailesbury.
Comes Clarendon.
Comes Abergavenny.
Comes Leicester.
Comes Uxbridge.
Comes Norwich.
Comes Talbot.
Comes Strange.
Comes Howe.
Viscount Hereford.
Viscount Weymouth.
Viscount Stormont.
Viscount Bolingbroke.
Viscount Falmouth.
Viscount Maynard.
Viscount Hampden.
Viscount Mount Edgcumbe & Valletort.		 Ds. Osborne, Unus Primariorum Secretariorum.
Ds. Sydney, Unus Primariorum Secretariorum.
Ds. Audley.
Ds. Willoughby Br.
Ds. St. John Blet.
Ds. Howard de Walden.
Ds. Clifton.
Ds. Teynham.
Ds. Craven.
Ds. Cathcart.
Ds. Elphinstone.
Ds. Kinnaird.
Ds. Boyle.
Ds. Hay.
Ds. Onslow & Cranley.
Ds. Romney.
Ds. Cadogan.
Ds. King.
Ds. Monson.
Ds. Montfort.
Ds. Chedworth.
Ds. Fortescue.
Ds. Ponsonby.
Ds. Walpole.
Ds. Stawell.
Ds. Scarsdale.
Ds. Boston.
Ds. Pelham.
Ds. Lovel & Holland.
Ds. Vernon.
Ds. Ducie.
Ds. Digby.
Ds. Sundridge.
Ds. Cardiff.
Ds. Hawke.
Ds. Amherst.
Ds. Brownlow.
Ds. Harrowby.
Ds. Foley.
Ds. Loughborough.
Ds. Brudenell.
Ds. Walsingham.
Ds. Bagot.
Ds. Porchester.
Ds. Rodney.
Ds. Rawdon.
Ds. Lovaine.
Ds. Carteret.
Ds. Eliot.
Ds. Bulkeley.
Ds. Sommers.
Ds. Douglas.
Ds. Delaval.
Ds. Hawkesbury.
Ds. Kenyon.
Ds. Dover.
Ds. Malmesbury.

PRAYERS.

Committee on State of the Nation.

The Order of the Day being read for the House to resolve itself into a Committee, to take into Consideration the State of the Nation; and for the Lords to be summoned:

The House was adjourned during Pleasure; and put into a Committee thereupon.

After some Time, The House was resumed:

And the Lord Onslow reported from the Committee, "That they had gone through the several Resolutions of the Commons referred to the said Committee on Tuesday last, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Ordered, That the said Report be taken into Consideration on Monday next; and that the Lords be summoned.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Lunæ, vicesimum nonum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Lunæ, 29o Decembris 1788.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Archiep. Cantuar.
Archiep. Ebor.
Epus. Londin.
Epus. Duresm.
Epus. Bath. & Wells.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Wigorn.
Epus. Hereford.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Glocestr.
Epus. Bristol.
Epus. Lincoln.
Epus. Carliol.
Epus. Cestrien.
Epus. Meneven.		 Dux York.
Dux Cumberland.
Ds. Thurlow Cancellarius.
Comes Camden, Præses.
March. Stafford, C. P. S.
Dux Norfolk, Marescallus.
Dux Chandos, Senescallus.
Dux Richmond.
Dux Beaufort.
Dux St. Alban's.
Dux Bedford.
Dux Devonshire.
Dux Portland.
Dux Bridgewater.
Dux Northumberland.
Dux Montagu.
March. Lothian.
March. Townshend.
Comes Salisbury, Camerarius.
Comes Derby.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Suffolk & Berkshire.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Westmorland.
Comes Winchelsea & Nottingham.
Comes Chesterfield.
Comes Essex.
Comes Carlisle.
Comes Doncaster.
Comes Abingdon.
Comes Plymouth.
Comes Scarbrough.
Comes Coventry.
Comes Jersey.
Comes Poulet.
Comes Morton.
Comes Cassilis.
Comes Moray.
Comes Galloway.
Comes Selkirk.
Comes Breadalbane.
Comes Hopetoun.
Comes Oxford & Mortimer.
Comes Aylesford.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Stanhope.
Comes Macclesfield.
Comes Kerr.
Comes Waldegrave.
Comes Effingham.
Comes Harrington.
Comes Brooke & Warwick.
Comes Fitzwilliam.
Comes Egremont.
Comes Harcourt.
Comes Fauconberg.
Comes Ilchester.
Comes De la Warr.
Comes Radnor.
Comes Spencer.
Comes Bathurst.
Comes Ailesbury.
Comes Abergavenny.
Comes Leicester.
Comes Uxbridge.
Comes Norwich.
Comes Talbot.
Comes Strange.
Comes Howe.
Viscount Weymouth.
Viscount Stormont.
Viscount Maynard.
Viscount Hampden.
Viscount Mount Edgcumbe & Valletort.		 Ds. Osborne, Unus Primariorum Secretariorum.
Ds. Sydney, Unus Primariorum Secretariorum.
Ds. Le Despencer.
Ds. Audley.
Ds. Willoughby Br.
Ds. Howard de Walden.
Ds. Clifton.
Ds. Teynham.
Ds. Craven.
Ds. Cathcart.
Ds. Elphinstone.
Ds. Kinnaird.
Ds. Boyle.
Ds. Hay.
Ds. Onslow & Cranley.
Ds. Cadogan.
Ds. King.
Ds. Chedworth.
Ds. Fortescue.
Ds. Ponsonby.
Ds. Scarsdale.
Ds. Boston.
Ds. Pelham.
Ds. Lovel & Holland.
Ds. Ducie.
Ds. Digby.
Ds. Cardiff.
Ds. Amherst.
Ds. Brownlow.
Ds. Harrowby.
Ds. Foley.
Ds. Loughborough.
Ds. Brudenell.
Ds. Walsingham.
Ds. Bagot.
Ds. Southampton.
Ds. Porchester.
Ds. Rodney.
Ds. Rawdon.
Ds. Carteret.
Ds. Eliot.
Ds. Bulkeley.
Ds. Sommers.
Ds. Berwick.
Ds. Delaval.
Ds. Kenyon.
Ds. Dover.
Ds. Malmesbury.

PRAYERS.

Report of Resolution on the State of the Nation and respecting His Majesty's Indisposition.

The Order of the Day for taking into Consideration the Report from the Committee of the whole House, appointed to take into Consideration the State of the Nation, to whom was referred the Resolutions of the Commons, delivered at a Conference on the 23d Instant, together with the Report from the Committee appointed to examine the Physicians who have attended His Majesty during His Illness, touching the State of His Majesty's Health, and the Report from the Committee appointed to examine and report Precedents of such Proceedings as may have been had in the Case of the Personal Exercise of the Royal Authority being prevented or interrupted by Infancy, Sickness, Infirmity, or otherwise, with a View to provide a Remedy for the same; and for the Lords to be summoned being read:

The said Report was read by the Clerk as follows; (videlicet)

"Resolved, That it appears to this Committee, that His Majesty is prevented by His present Indisposition from coming to His Parliament, and from attending to Public Business, and that the Personal Exercise of the Royal Authority by His Majesty is thereby for the present interrupted."

"Resolved, That it appears to this Committee, that it is the Right and Duty of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, of Great Britain now assembled, and lawfully, fully, and freely representing all the Estates of the People of this Realm, to provide the Means of supplying the Defect of the Personal Exercise of the Royal Authority arising from His Majesty's said Indisposition, in such Manner as the Exigency of the Case may appear to them to require."

"Resolved, That it appears to this Committee, that for this Purpose and for maintaining entire the Constitutional Authority of the King, it is necessary that the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, of Great Britain, should determine on the Means whereby the Royal Assent may be given in Parliament to such Bill as may be passed by the Two Houses of Parliament, respecting the Exercise of the Powers and Authorities of the Crown, in the Name and on the Behalf of the King during the Continuance of His Majesty's present Indisposition."

The First Resolution was read by the Clerk.

Moved, "To agree with the Committee in the said First Resolution."

Then the following Words were proposed to be added thereto at the End thereof; (videlicet)

("And that an humble Address be presented to His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, praying His Royal Highness to take upon Himself as sole Regent the Administration of the Executive Government in the King's Name, during the Continuance of His Majesty's aforesaid Indisposition, and no longer.")

Which being objected to;

The Question was put, "Whether the Words proposed shall be added to the said Resolution?"

It was resolved in the Negative.

Then the said Resolution was agreed to.

The Second Resolution was read by the Clerk.

Moved, "To agree with the Committee in the said Second Resolution."

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Then the said Resolution was agreed to.

The Third Resolution was read by the Clerk.

Moved, "To agree with the Committee in the said Third Resolution."

Which being objected to;

It was moved, "That the Act 33d Henry VIII. Cap. 21, Sec. 2 and 3, relating to the King's Assent to Acts of Parliament by his Letters Patent might be now read."

The same was accordingly read by the Clerk:

Which being done,

The Question was put, "Whether to agree with the Committee in the said Resolution?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Then the said Resolution was agreed to.

"DISSENTIENT.

Protest against agreeing to the 3d Resolution.

1st, "Because we adhere to the antient Principle, recognized and declared by the Act of the 13th of Charles the Second, that no Act or Ordinance with the Force and Virtue of a Law can be made by either or both Houses of Parliament without the King's Assent; a Principle standing as a Bulwark to the People against the Two Houses, as the Two Houses are their Security against the Crown."

2dly. "Because this Principle is tacitly admitted by the Third Resolution, while it overthrows the Practice, by a simulate Appearance of the Royal Assent under a Commission to pass Bills; a Commission which would be inconsistent with the Provisions of an Act in the 33d of Henry VIII. requiring that every such Commission shall be signed with His Majesty's Hand.

"In our present unhappy Situation that essential Requisite being unattainable, we cannot condescend to give a Sanction to a counterfeit Representation of the Royal Signature, and we dare not assume a Power to dispense with the Law which makes that Signature essential to the Validity of a Commission to pass Bills."

3dly. "Because we conceive that the unquestionable Rights of the People, so fallaciously represented as being upheld by these Resolutions, are violently infringed by an unnecessary Assumption on the Part of the Two Houses, of Powers beyond those which the Nation has assigned them; invariable Practice in all good Times, and positive Laws established by compleat Parliaments truly and Constitutionally representing the Nation, have defined those Powers; and we cannot but regard with the utmost Apprehension any Proposal to overstep those Boundaries, when the Consequence of such Usurpation is so fatally marked in the History of our Country."

4thly. "Because it was confessed in the Debate, that the Powers of this Commission were not to be confined solely to the Act of appointing a Regent; to what other Purposes they may extend was not explained; State Necessity, the avowed Ground of the Measure, may serve as the Pretext for any Diminution of the just Prerogative of the Crown, or of the Liberties of the People, that best suits the Designs of Ambition; fatal Experience had shewn to our Ancestors the boundless Mischief of Power, thus usurped under plausible Appearances, and it is peculiarly the Duty of the House of Peers, to check the Renewal of a Practice to assume the Name without the Substance of the Royal Authority, by which this House was once annihilated, the Monarchy overthrown, and the Liberties of the People subdued."

5thly. "Because these dangerous and alarming Consequences of the Measure adopted would have been obviated by the Amendment rejected; it proposed to substitute a Measure conformable to the Practice of our Ancestors at the glorious Æra of the Revolution; they seized not upon public Necessity as a Convenience for the Usurpation of new Powers, but proceeded in a plain and explicit Form to the Revival of the Royal Authority with full Efficacy, before they entered upon the Exercise of their Legislative Functions; pursuing a similar Course, the Amendment proposed the immediate Nomination of the natural Representative of the King, the Heir Apparent of the Crown, to whom alone it was universally admitted the Eyes and Hearts of all Men were turned during the present unhappy Conjuncture, that with a perfect and efficient Legislature, such future Provisions might be enacted, as the Preservation of the full and undiminished Authority of the Crown and of the Liberties of the People may require.

"Frederick.
Bedford.
Ponsonby.
Suffolk & Berkshire.
Carlisle.
Norfolk, E. M.
Rawdon.
Cardiff.
Malmesbury.
Clifton.
Kinnaird.
Chedworth.
Loughborough.
Portland.
Devonshire.
Derby.
Chr. Bristol.
Henry.
Northumberland.
Cadogan.
Spencer.
Maynard.
Cassillis.
Breadalbane.
Audley.
Hay.
Rodney.
Selkirk.
Wentworth Fitzwilliam.
Pelham.
Walpole.
Hereford.
Cholmondeley.
Scarbrough.
Foley.
Huntingdon.
Southampton.
Lovel & Holland.
Lothian.
Hertford.
Abergavenny.
Townshend.
Plymouth.
Teynham.
Hampden.
Craven.
Porchester.
Boyle."

Ordered, That the Concurrence of this House to the said Resolutions be communicated to the Commons at a Conference.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Martis, tricesimum diem instantis Decembris, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Martis, 30o Decembris 1788.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Epus. Meneven. Ds. Thurlow, Cancellarius.
Dux Norfolk, Marescallus.
Comes Radnor.		 Ds. Sydney, Unus Primariorum Secretariorum.
Ds. King.
Ds. Chedworth.

PRAYERS.

Moved, to adjourn;

Accordingly,

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Jovis, primum diem Januarii, jam prox. sequen. horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

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