House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 27 April 1621

DIE Veneris, videlicet, 27 die Aprilis,

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

p. Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.

Mathias Fowles.

NOTICE being given to the House, That Four Silk Dyers (being sent by the Master and Warden of that Company, according to the Order of the House) did attend their Lordships Pleasure, it was agreed to hear Mathias Fowles again first.

And divers Lords holding that the Prisoner's Witnesses (if he produce any) are not to be examined upon Oath, the Prince his Highness was of a contrary Opinion; for that then an innocent Man may be condemned. Whereupon (at his Highness's Motion) it was Ordered and Agreed, That the Prisoner's Witnesses shall be examined, ad informandum animum Judicis, if he desire it.

His Charge.

Mathias Fowles, being brought to the Bar, was charged:

1. That, Care being taken by the King's Majesty to prevent the Abuse of Counterfeit Stuff of Gold and Silver Thread; he, being a Patentee, used much Deceit in the false Dye of the Silk; the same being much corrupted with White Lead and Arsenick.

Resp.

He confesseth, there was Abuse in the Dying of the Silk; but it was by the Dyer's Default (Gascard), and not his; for it was the Dyer's absolute Bargain to deliver the Examinat good and justifiable Silk.

He faith, the Deceit was without the Examinat's Privity, which he hopes to prove by the Testimony of his Clerks:

For he contracted with the Dyer to have the Silk delivered him good and justifiable, which Contract was per Poll.

Being demanded, whether he raised the ordinary Price of the Dying in this Contract;

He answered, he knows of no ordinary Price; but he gave his Dyer the more to have it done well and justifiably.

He faith further, that he made no Contract with any Dyer before that with this (Gascard), but put out his Silk to dying by his Servants; and that his own Servants dyed none, but only washed the Silk.

It being alledged, That, one Mr. Cram offering to dye for Four Pence the Pound, he gave this Dyer (Gascard) Three Shillings;

He answered, "The Woman's Offer is no Proof."

He faith further, that, in all kind of dying, there is an Addition to the Weight of the Silk; he discoursed of the Difference between Addition and Sophistication; but refused to answer whether such Addition be Deceit or no, but leaves it to the Dyers, to be resolved by them.

He faith directly, he was not a Partaker with the Deceit of the Dyer; alledging, for Proof thereof, his Contract with the Dyer (as before).

His Command to his Clerk, not to receive any such Silk falsly dyed.

His Command to his Workmen, not to use any such Silk.

He faith, He put no Silk to any Dyer, but to this Gascard only; he put some Twenty or Thirty Pounds Weight to one Norton, who spoiled it in the Dying, and therefore he paid him nothing for it.

Here the Prisoner was withdrawn; and divers Silkdyers were called in, and examined, whether the Addition to the Weight of the Silk in the Dye may be used honestly; and whether that Addition hath been anciently used or no, and what Proportion of Addition hath been used; and whether it hath been necessary to dye the Silk, which is to be used for Gold or Silver Thread.

William Blackamore faith, That Silk for Gold and (fn. 2) Silver Thread must be dyed into Yellow for Gold, into Pearl Colour for Silver; and it is corrupted, if the Weight be increased; if there be any Addition to any of those Colours, it is meer Deceit. The Addition may be by White Lead, and Arsenick, and other Corruptions. Some have used this Addition; but no honest Man will use it. It hath been used long for other Colours; but for Gold and Silver Thread, but these Three Years.

He faith, He dyed a great Quantity of Silk for Francis Broade, and Broade required no Increase of Weight; and he was sent for to Fowles, and Fowles's Wife asked him what Increase of Weight he could make; and he denied to add any Increase; and so he was not set on Work by Fowles, which else he might have been.

His Wife offered him the Dying of the Silk, so he would add Two Ounces to the Weight of Twelve Ounces.

He dyed an Hundred and Thirteen Pounds Weight of Silk for the Gold Office; and should have had Fourteen Pence the Pound for the Gold Colour, but was never paid.

Hereupon he proffered himself voluntarily to be sworn; and, being sworn, subscribed his Name,

William Blackamore.

John Wyles, a Silk-dyer, faith, There is Four Ounces, or thereabouts, lost in the washing of a Pound of Silk for Gold and Silver Thread; then it is to be dyed, but no Addition ought to be; if there be any Addition, it is Deceit and Sophistication, which, though it increaseth the Weight, yet the Stuff is the worse. This Addition is not generally used; he hath heard of it but these Three or Four Years. The Workmanship, to make a Pound of Silk Thread ready for the Work, hath been usually but Sixteen Pence; they dyed the Silk for Silver into a Pearl Colour. He faith, That Silk of Colour de Roy, or Russet, cannot be dyed without Galls, which giveth a little Addition to the Weight.

He proffered himself voluntarily to be sworn to this; and, being sworn, subscribed his Name,

John Wyles.

Hugh Tanner, a Silk-dyer, faith, That Three Ounces and an Half, or thereabouts, is lost in the washing of a Pound of Silk for Gold and Silver Thread; and that the Silk, being dyed, cannot honestly be increased above a Quarter of an Ounce in a Pound; the Increase hurts the Silk, by weakening it: And that this Deceit hath been used these Two or Three Years, and no longer, for any Thing he knows; but himself never used it, nor knows who did use it; he never knew Fowles. The usual Price to dye Silk for Gold and Silver Thread he knoweth not; but, for ordinary Colour, he hath but Sixteen Pence the Pound; and he knows no Reason why there should be so much taken by them that dye for Gold and Silver Thread, for their Stuffs are not so dear.

Hereunto he was voluntarily sworn, and subscribed his Name,

Hughe Tanner.

Christopher Blenkensopp, Silk-dyer, he faith, That about Four Ounces Weight in the Pound is lost in the washing and boiling of Silk for Gold and Silver Thread; and that no Addition of Weight can honestly be added in the dying of the same Silk: the Addition doth rather Hurt than Good. Twelve Pence or Sixteen Pence the Pound is the usual Price for dying the Silk for Gold and Silver Thread; and it is washed by them also. He knoweth not how long Addition of Weight hath been used; he never dyed any Silk with Addition of Weight, but some Colours which cannot but have some small Addition. He knows not Fowles nor Unwoon, nor ever dealt with Fowles.

Being voluntarily sworn to this, he also subscribed his Name,

Christopher Blenkensop.

Mathias Fowles being brought to the Bar again, and demanded, whether he vented any sophisticated Silk for Gold and Silver Thread, after he knew of the Sophistication, answered, "I think some of my Servants sold some Quantity of it, but not much."

2. Touching the second Part of his Charge, videlicet, the Seizure of the Stuffs and Tools forfeited, and Conversion thereof to his own Use:

Resp.

He answered, "I seized none, nor converted any to my own Use."

3. To the Third Point of his Charge, videlicet, That he, being but a Patentee, did execute the Authority of a Commissioner, by conventing, examining, and committing Offenders, and exceeding the same Authority:

Resp.

He answered, "I deny this absolutely."

4. To the Fourth Part of the Charge, videlicet, That he and Dyke, having covenanted with the King to import Five Thousand Pounds in Bullion, yearly, by Indenture dated Day of Anno 13° Jacobi, and to pay Ten Pounds Rent yearly to the King, he imported not as yet above Eight Thousand Pounds in Bullion; whereby our Coin and Plate were consumed, for this Manufacture of Gold and Silver Thread, Thirty Thousand Pounds per Annum, at the least; and also that he paid not the Ten Pounds Rent.

Resp.

He answered, "I used the Manufacture of Gold and Silver Thread since the Year of the King; and have spent in the same Manufacture but Forty-three or Forty-four Thousand Pounds in Bullion, at the most."

"As for the Importation, I confess my Covenant for the same, and refer myself to that Covenant; and I confess, that I have imported but Eight Thousand Weight of Bullion; and that (by Computation) there is about Seven Thousand behind."

"As for the Rent to the King, I paid it not; because I enjoyed not the Patent, whereof there is not above Sixty Pounds behind; for which I am in the King's Mercy; But I have paid the King's Customs, according to my Covenant with His Majesty."

Richard Moore, the Gaoler of Finsbury, being sworn and examined, faith, He knoweth not whether Mrs. Turatta (some Three Years since) was sent to his Gaol, or no; that Fowles never committed any to his Gaol upon his own Warrant, neither did he ever receive any Warrant under Fowles's Hand, nor in his Name. He faith further, That Sir Francis Michell sent for him, this Examinat, to his House; and said, he would have a Chamber in this Examinat's House, for Prisoners to be sent thither from him, and other Commissioners of the Manufacture of Gold and Silver Thread; for that the Commitment to Newgate would be more chargeable to the Prisoners: And he, the said Sir Francis Michell, had a Chamber in this Examinat's House, whither many Prisoners were brought by Norton and Ireland. He denies, that Fowles sent any to him, or brought any to him.

Broade arrested.

The Lord North shewed how that Francis Broade, attending here Yesterday with his Complaint against Mathias Fowles, was arrested by John Broade; and moved, That he, the said Francis Broade, might enjoy the Privilege of the Parliament, and be freed of the said Arrest, and the Offenders punished for their Contempt.

Whereupon it was Ordered, That a Writ of Habeas corpus cum causa be awarded to the Sheriffs of London, to bring the said Francis Broade hither, To-morrow Morning, by Nine of the Clock; and that a Warrant be made to the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, to bring them which arrested the said Francis Broade, before their Lordships, at the same Time.

Message to the Commons.

Message sent to the Commons, by Mr. Baron Bromley, Mr. Justice Hutton:

That the Lords desire them to sit, with their Speaker, as a full House, this Afternoon, for that the Lords may have Occasion to send unto them about some Businesses of Importance.

Answer returned,

Answer.

They will sit, as a full House, this Afternoon, as is desired.

Michell.

The Lords agreed to meet this Afternoon in their Robes, to give Sentence against Sir Frauncis Michell; and that the Judges have Notice to attend them in their Robes also.

Fowles.

It was Ordered also, That Mathias Fowles do attend again this Afternoon.

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius, Locum tenens Domini Cancellarii, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in horam secundam post meridiem hujus diei, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Post meridiem,

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.

Michell.

THE Lord Chief Justice did put their Lordships in Remembrance of their Resolution to give Sentence this Afternoon against Sir Frauncis Michell, and of their Message sent this Morning unto the Commons.

Their Lordships Agreed, That Sir Frauncis Michell's Cause is ready to be sentenced; and, to the End the same might be the more freely debated, the House was adjourned ad libitum.

Gold and Silver Thread.

At this Committee, it was debated, whether Sir Frauncis Michell, before his Censure, shall be first examined of others, named in the Complaint of the Commons, touching the Patent of Gold and Silver Thread, or no.

The House being resumed, and the Lord Chief Justice returned to the Place of the Lord Chancellor, this was put to the Question, and (per plures) assented unto.

The House was adjourned again, ad libitum, to the End it might be debated concerning whom Sir Frauncis Michell should be first examined, and upon what Points.

The Lord Chief Justice being returned, and the House resumed;

Message to the Commons.

Message was sent to the Lower House, by Mr. Baron Bromley and Mr. Justice Hutton;

That the Lords cannot now proceed in that Business of Importance, which they intended when they sent their last Message unto them, to sit this Afternoon as a full House, in regard of some intervenient Business, which they expected not.

Answered,

Answer.

They return Thanks unto their Lordships, and will be ready to attend their Lordships, upon the Signification of their Pleasure hereafter.

Sir Francis Michell examined.

Sir Frauncis Michell being brought to the Bar, and sworn a voir dire;

Was examined first, touching Henry Tweedy, named by the Commons in their Declaration of Gold and Silver Thread.

He faith, He knows not whether Thomas Ledsham was sent to Fowles's House, to his Remembrance. He further faith, That Mr. Tweedy did join in the Warrant with this Examinat to commit Ledsham to Prison, to his now Remembrance, and in the Warrants to commit Thomas Eaton and Whiting; and that he joined with him in the Warrant to send Patrickson, Robert More, Hugh Underhill, William Symons, and John Wakeland, to Newgate: But he remembers not whether any were sent by them to Finsbury Gaol, or no. He saith, That he doth remember, that Moore, Underhill, Wakeland, &c. were committed by him (this Examinat) and Mr. Tweedy, as appears by a Copy of the Mittimus.

He faith also, That he thinketh he drew some of the Warrants; and Mr. Tweedie drew other some, as he thinketh.

And, being examined touching Sir Allen Appesley, who is also mentioned in that Declaration of the Commons;

He faith, That, by the Copy of the Mittimus, it appears, that Sir Allen Appesley did join in the Commit ment of Cockerell, and the other Women; but he remembers not that Hill was committed by Sir Henry Appesley to the Prison in Eastcheape.

He was examined also touching Sir Edward Villiers, who is named likewise by the Commons in their said Declaration; and faith, He hath heard (by Hearsay) that Sir Edward Villiers was with Sir Henry Yelverton about this Business (of the Patent of Gold and Silver Thread); but knows not in certain of any Thing what Sir Edward Villiers said, nor that Sir Henry Yelverton wrote any Letter to the Lord Chancellor, touching the Commitment of any Offenders against that Patent.

He faith, That Sir Henry Yelverton committed Three or Four Silk-men, as he hath heard; but he knows not whether Sir Edward Villiers was present at the Commitment of those Four Silk-men, nor whether Sir Edward Villiers did threaten those Silk-men; but faith, he hath heard that the said Sir Edward Villiers was accused thereof, but he knoweth not by whom.

These Depositions being read unto him, he subscribed his Name thereunto,

Frauncis Michell.

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius, Locum tenens Domini Cancellarii, declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, 28^m diem instantis Aprilis, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.