Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 3, 1620-1628. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.
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'House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 19 May 1624', in Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 3, 1620-1628( London, 1767-1830), British History Online https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol3/pp387-392 [accessed 22 December 2024].
'House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 19 May 1624', in Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 3, 1620-1628( London, 1767-1830), British History Online, accessed December 22, 2024, https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol3/pp387-392.
"House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 19 May 1624". Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 3, 1620-1628. (London, 1767-1830), , British History Online. Web. 22 December 2024. https://prod.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol3/pp387-392.
In this section
DIE Mercurii, videlicet, 19 die Maii,
Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt;
p. Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.
Bankrupts Bill.
HODIE 2a et 3a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the further Description of a Bankrupt, and Relief of Creditors against such as shall become Bankrupts, and for inflicting Corporal Punishment upon the Bankrupts in some special Cases.
Put to the Question, and Expedited.
Sir Edward Engham's Bill.
Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the settling and assuring of the Manor of Goodneston, and other Lands of Sir Edward Engham, Knight.
Whetenhall's Divinity Lectures.
Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the establishing of Three Lectures in Divinity, according to the last Will and Testament of Thomas Whetenhall, Esquire.
Put to the Question, and Expedited.
Report from the Conference touching the Complaint against the Bishop of Norwich.
The Lords appointed the Fifteenth of this Month to confer with the Commons, touching their Complaint against the Lord Bishop of Norwich, being returned, the Lord Archbishop of Cant. reported the same unto the House, to this Effect: videlicet,
"That the Commons had received a Complaint exhibited by the Citizens of Norwich, against the said Lord Bishop; and, to shew that it was ordinary for the Commons to complain of the Governors of the Church, divers Records of Parliament were cited, videlicet, Annis 35 E. III. 18 E. III. 50 E. III. 17 R. II. et 11 H. IV. all which were cited to satisfy tacit Objections for their meddling with a Cause of this Nature. That the Charge against the Lord Bishop consisted of Six Parts:
"1. That he inhibited or disheartened Preachers on the Sabbath-day in the Forenoon.
"2. That Images were set up in the Church, and one of the Holy Ghost fluttering over the Font; and a Marble Tomb pulled down, and Images set up in the room; and the Bishop blessed them that did it.
"3. That he punished those that prayed not towards the East.
"4. That he punished a Minister for catechising his Family and singing of Psalms.
"5. That he used Extortions many Ways.
"6. That he did not enter Institutions, to the Prejudice of Patrons.
"For the First, it was said, that there were Four and Thirty Churches in Norwiche, and in those Parishes Thirty or Forty Thousand People; that the Lord Bishop sent for the Preachers, by Apparitors, and told them, there was no need of Preaching on Sunday in the Forenoon, except in the Cathedral Church, where Two or Three Thousand only could hear; many dwelling Three Quarters of a Mile off, and many being old and not able for their Age to come so far: That this Inhibition was when the King had commanded more Preaching: That his Lordship connived at Recusants; all which was to the disheartening of the good Professors.
"It may be objected, his Lordship allowed of Catechising; ergo, no Preaching necessary; but he commanded to ask bare Questions, and nothing else; ergo, no Instructions.
"That this is done against the Canons of the Church; and that there is no Obedience without Knowledge, etc. The outward Man is not conformed unless the inward Man be reformed; and cited the Canon Quicunque contristaverit doctorem veritatis, peccat in Christum; and the Canon, 1° Jac. Cap. 45° for Command of Preaching.
"For the Second, touching the setting up of Images, it was said to be against Acts of Parliament, against the Canons of the Convocation, the Book (allowed in the King's Time) of 28 H. VIII. Cap. 30. against Images (Pilgrimages will follow), against 3 E. VI. and the Homilies approved Anno Primo Eliz. forbidding of Images in Churches.
"The Third, for Prayer to the East, which Gratian affirms it came by Tradition, Parte 1a, dict. 11. and that it is superstitious. Linwood, in the Glosses Lib. ii. Title De Feriis, Non refert si versus Orientem, etc.
"That the Lord Bishop excommunicated many, and enjoined Penance unto divers, for not praying to the East; and some did their Penance with a White Rod in their Hand; for Proof whereof it is under the Bishop's Hand.
"The Fourth, one Pecke, a Minister, catechised his Family, and sang Psalms; and his Neighbours came in on the Sundays after Evening Prayers; and the Lord Bishop enjoined them to do Penance for this their resorting to catechising and singing of Psalms, and to say, I confess my Errors; which Acknowledgement is under the Bishop's Hand.
"They which refused were excommunicated, and paid Seven Pounds Charges.
"And it was especially observed by the Commons, that this Pecke was a conformable Preacher.
"Fifthly, touching Extortions, was shewn, That in the Table of Fees is set down, for Institution, Twentyfour Shillings Eight Pence, whereof to the Bishop Ten Shillings; that this Lord Bishop is Register also; and now his Lordship taketh for Institution Three Pounds Five Shillings; and for united Churches double, videlicet, Six Pounds Ten Shillings; and that, communibus Annis, there are a Hundred Institutions.
"For Admission into Sacred Orders, nothing should be taken; if any, it is Simony; yet this Lord Bishop taketh now Thirty Shillings, or Nine and Twenty Shillings (the Bishop and Register being all one).
"To serve Cure, Five Shillings is due; his Lordship taketh Six Shillings Eight Pence.
"To teach School, Three Shillings Four Pence; his Lordship taketh Six Shillings Eight Pence; and, if of Ability, Ten Shillings.
"For Consignation of a Decree, Four Pence; which cometh to Eighty Pounds per Annum; for which there should be nothing paid, no Consignation being in the Table, but (with another Hand) set down in Archbishop Whitguiftes Time.
"Sixthly, That the Institutions to Benefices are not registred, which overthroweth Patronages, if it be returned Scrutatis Archivis non invenitur, when the Right comes in Question; yet the Fees are greater than before.
"The Commons concluded with these Two Remembrances: The First, That they received this Complaint before Easter last; yet they proceeded not in the Examination thereof till they received a Certificate from the Mayor of Norwich; the Second, That there is a Law that none shall be punished for complaining in Parliament."
This Report ended, the Lord Bishop of Norwich stood up in his Place, and answered the same to this Effect: videlicet,
"The Answer of the Lord Bishop of Norwich to the Complaint of the Commons.
The Bishop's Answer.
"First, his Lordship confessed the Charges in the said Complaint to be so great and so grievous, that, were he guilty thereof, he would desire himself to be punished; which, whether he be guilty or not, he will leave to their Lordships most exact and severe Examinations, wherein he desired them not to spare him; and he would ever acknowledge and commend their Justice and Honour."
His Lordship protested, "That he was no way guilty of the First Part of this Accusation; if he were, then he was unworthy to bear the Name of a Clergyman; and shewed the Unworthiness of such as should dishearten Preachers from preaching the Word of God."
His Lordship shewed also (desiring first that he might not be taxed of Ostentation) "his own Practice in Preaching whilst he was Vicar and Parson: That he preached every Sabbath in the Morning, and catechised in the Afternoon; and that he continued the like in Preaching in Chichester when he was Bishop there. That in Norwich he never missed the public Place, and ever preached there against Popery; though he had been an unprofitable, yet he had not been an idle Servant, which was now his only Comfort.
"As touching Preaching and Non-residents, he hath been reckoned more than Half a Puritan; his Lordship remembered his Manner of leaving his Service with the late Lord Archbishop of Cant. that he might go to his Cure.
"His Lordship wondered why he should be thought a Papist. He thought it might (fn. 1) be owing to his Disputations, and his Sermon at Paul's Crosse, of Predestination Negative, un-advisedly preached by him, for which he was checked by the Lord Archbishop Whitguifte, and commanded to preach no more of it; and he never did, though now Doctor Abbotts, late Bishop of Sarum, hath since declared, in Print, that which he then preached to be no Popery: That Popery is a Fire, which will never be quiet; he hath preached a Thousand Sermons since, and nothing of Popery can be imputed unto him out of any of them.
"That there be divers Obstacles to keep his Lordship from Popery:
"1. The Usurpations of the Pope of Rome: His Lordship affirmed, That no Power on Earth can touch a Prince; and that therefore he abhorred the Usurpation of the Pope over Princes.
"2. Their Religion is dyed with Blood.
"3. The practique Course of their Religion is all by Juggling and Feigned Miracles, of which his Lordship had written a Book against them, which was never as yet answered: That he never spake with Priest (fn. 2) or Jesuit, nor (fn. 3) ever invited a known Recusant to his Table, for they never say Amen to our Prayers.
"4. That their Equivocation is the last; worse than which nothing can be. His Lordship held it much better to talk with the Devil than with such. Then his Lordship professed himself to be a true Member of this Church, and acknowledged the Church of England to come nearest to the Primitive Church: That we fetch not our Reformation from Wickliffe, Hus, and Luther of latter Times, but from the first Four Hundred Years next after Christ.
"1. As touching the First Point of the Accusation:
"His Lordship confessed, that Six or Seven of the abler Sort of Ministers in Norwich used to expound in their own Churches before the Sermon began in the Cathedral Church; and many resorted from other Places to these Expositions (for all the Churches have no Preachers), and in the Afternoon to their Sermons.
"The Preachers themselves found Fault with this (being willing to be rid of the Pains, as his Lordship thought, for they were to preach in the Afternoon and in the Week-days), and shewed him many Disorders therein, which they pretended; as the cutting off Part of the Prayers, or their beginning so early that many could not come to the Common Prayers, and the like; and they besought his Lordship to remedy it, for that they, being but Stipendary Men, were loth to do it, for Fear (belike) to lose their Stipends; whereupon his Lordship sent for them by an Officer, and willed them to omit those Expositions in the Forenoon; and yet his Lordship hath since taken Order for the erecting of Three Sermons in the most remote Places of the City from the Cathedral Church; and his Lordship hath erected many Lectures in several Places in the Country.
"2. As touching the Images in a Church; what was done, is done without his Knowledge; it is meant by Saint Peter's Church. That his Lordship never saw that Church 'till one Evening as he came by; and, being often before informed of much Cost done upon that Church, he went in, and kneeled down to his Prayers, as his Use is; and when he arose up, and perceiving that they had bestowed very great Cost, and not seeing nor knowing of any Image at all set up there, he said, God's Blessing on their Hearts that had bestowed such Cost on God's House.
"3. As touching Prayers to the East; he never enjoined it, nor heard of it till now.
"4. For the Fourth Part of this Complaint, he perceiveth that he hath been sifted for the whole Course of his Life: That this Pecke was sent to his Lordship by the Justices of Peace, for an Assembly late at Night in his House; his Catechising being but a Colour to draw them thither: That this Pecke had infected the Parish with strange Opinions; as, not to kneel when they come to Church; that the Name of Jesus is no more than a common Name; and that it is Superstition to bow down at the Name of Jesus: His Lordship further affirmed, That this Pecke had been formerly convicted for (fn. 4) Non-conformity, Annis 1615 et 1617, and for Simony, and Conventicles in his Neighbour's House, as appears by the Acts of the Register Fatetur.
"And that, Anno 1622, he was taken in his House, with Two and Twenty of his Neighbours, at a Conventicle: That he was now bound over by a Justice, and so brought to his Lordship: And his Sentence against Pecke was only, That he should confess his Fault.
"The others mentioned in this Part of the Charge, were punished for their Opinions also, making no Difference between an Alehouse and the Church, till the Preacher be in the Pulpit."
His Lordship said, "He must confess his Fault: That, in the Penance which he enjoined them, he caused them to confess their Errors, omitting their Resort to Conventicles, which he did at their own earnest Suit."
"5. His Lordship absolutely denied, That he improved any Fees; and affirmed, That he hath not any of those Fees that are complained of, only the Fees for Institution, which he took as his Predecessors did; if therein he hath committed any Error, Erravimus cum Patribus; and denied that he had ever seen that Table of Fees, which is spoken of by the Commons.
"6. His Lordship affirmed, That he had registered all the Institutions."
This was the Effect of the Lord Bishop's Answer; which being ended,
The Prince his Highness told his Lordship, "That he had not answered touching the Paraphrase of the Catechism taken away by him."
Whereupon his Lordship replied, "That the Preachers used to choose a Text of the Creed, &c. and to ask the Child some one Question, and then to dilate very long upon it, and never to descend to the Capacity of the Child: That his Lordship did not forbid the Explanation, but willed that it might be catechistically."
Thus ended the Lord Bishop of Norwich's Answer to the said Complaint.
Complaint against the Bishop of Norwich referred to the High Commission.
It is this Day Ordered, in respect of the Streightness of Time, and the Multiplicity of Businesses now depending to be determined in this short Time, That the Complaint of the Commons against the Lord Bishop of Norwich shall be referred unto the High Commission, to be examined by them; and they to make Report thereof to the House; and then the House will judge thereof.
The Bishop's Complaint against Stoakes.
The Lord Bishop of Norwich complained unto the House of one Thomas Stoakes, Clerk: That whereas the said Thomas Stoakes had preferred a Petition to the House of Commons against his Lordship, for excessive Fees pretended to be taken by his Lordship, and for other Aggrievances therein mentioned, wherein his Lordship acknowledged the Proceedings of the said Stoakes to be legal, and humbly submitted himself unto Examination and strict Trial therein: But complained, That the said Stoakes had sent his Lordship this Message: videlicet, "That, if his Lordship would suffer a Judgement in the Court of Common Pleas, for him the said Stoakes to be Archdeacon of Norff. that then he the said Stocks would prosecute no further against his Lordship; otherwise he would smoak him with more Complaints; and moreover, that the said Stocks reported, that his Lordship did drink a Health to Spinola, and refused to pledge a Health to the Prince of Orenge, for that the said Prince was the General unto Traitors; and that the said Stokes affirmed, that his Lordship did take Thirty Pounds of every one of the Archdeacons when he came first to his See." All which his Lordship affirmed to be false.
Referred to the Archbishop of Canterbury.
The which Complaint is referred to the Lord Archbishop of Cant. and his Grace is to make Report thereof to the House; and then the House to judge thereof.
And William Neve and Christopher Ponder are to be sent for before the Lord Archbishop, to be examined touching the Truth of these Reports made by the said Stoaks.
Message from the Commons, by Sir Edwyne Sands and others:
Message from the H. C. touching a Petition to the King to defer the Prorogation.
The Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses, in the House of Commons assembled, understanding that His Majesty's Pleasure is, to put an End to this Session on Saturday next; within which short Time, neither this House nor theirs can perfect those Businesses which are begun; they do humbly desire their Lordships to join with them in Petition unto His Majesty for a longer Time: First, for that, His Majesty permitting them to nominate their own Treasurers for the Subsidy this Parliament, much longer Time hath been spent in that Bill than usual; for that they had no Precedent for the same; whereby many other good Bills were delayed.
Secondly; for that the Business of Free Trade (which hath been long disordered) hath brought many general Complaints unto them, not only by the Merchants, but by the Cloathiers, and them of the meaner Sort also; which Business, if they may have a longer Time, they hope so to accommodate, that it shall be advantageous for the King's Profit, and give Content both to the Poor and Rich.
Thirdly, the Bill for the Subsidy of the Clergy is bur newly come into their House; and their own Bill of Subsidy is yet to have another Reading.
Fourthly, for that they understand, That their Lord ships have so many Bills and other Matters of Weight as yet depending, that they doubt whether their Lordships can perform them in so short a Time.
Wherefore, and to hold that fair Correspondency which hath hitherto continued between both Houses, they make this their earnest Request; not intending to entertain any new Matters, but those only which are begun, and ready to be finished.
The Messengers being withdrawn; the Prince his Highness signified unto the House, That, at his coming from the King, His Majesty told him, that He was determined to end this Session on Saturday next; and commanded his Highness so to answer them who should move to have that Time prolonged: But what His Majesty will do therein when He shall know these Reasons, his Highness said, he knew not.
Whereupon the House humbly besought his Highness to move His Majesty to give a longer Day.
Answer.
And then the Messengers were answered: That the Lords do take in good Part their Willingness to hold good Correspondency with them, and have weighed the general and particular Reasons expressed for a longer Day of Continuance of this Session: But they have received such absolute Directions from His Majesty for the End of this Session at a Day now so near at Hand, that they can give the Commons no Hope of obtaining a longer: And yet, considering that His Majesty knew not of these Reasons, their Lordships have entreated the Prince his Highness to move His Majesty for a longer Day. What this will produce, their Lordships know not; wherefore their Lordships will hasten the Dispatch of their own Business, against the Day which His Majesty hath limited, as much as they can; and they doubt not but the Commons will do the like.
Concealments.
The Lord President reported the Bill of Concealments as fit to pass, with some Amendments and Additions; the which were Twice read, and approved; and the Additions Ordered to be ingrossed.
Adjourn.
Dominus Custos Magni Sigilii declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in pomeridianum hujus diei, hora 3a, Dominis sic decernentibus.
Post meridiem,
Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:
p. Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.
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p. Archiepus. Cant. Archiepus. Eborum. Epus. London. p. Epus. Dunelm. Epus. Winton. Epus. Petriburg. Epus. Hereforden. Epus. Wigorn. p. Epus. Norwich. Epus. Roffen. Epus. Glocestren. Epus. Carlien. p. Epus. Co. et Lich. p. Epus. Bath et W. p. Epus. Bangor. Epus. Elien. Epus. Cicestren. p. Epus. Oxon. Epus. Cestren. Epus. Landaven. Epus. Sarum. p. Epus. Exon. Epus. Meneven. p. Epus. Bristol. Epus. Asaphen. |
p. Epus. Lincoln, Ds. Custos Mag. Sigilli. Vicecomes Maundevill, Præs. Concilii Domini Regis. Comes Wigorn, Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli. Dux Buck. Magnus Admirall. Angliæ. Marchio Winton. Comes Oxon, Magnus Camerar. Angliæ. Comes Arundellet Surr. Comes Maresc. Angliæ. Comes Cantabr. Senesc. Hospitii. Comes Pembroc, Camerar. Hospitii. Comes Northumbriæ. Comes Nottingham. Comes Salop. Comes Kanciæ. Comes Derbiæ. Comes Rutland. Comes Cumbriæ. Comes Sussex. Comes Huntingdon. Comes Bath. p. Comes South'ton. Comes Bedd. Comes Hertford. p. Comes Essex. p. Comes Lincoln. Comes Suffolciæ. Comes Dorset. p. Comes Sarum. Comes Exon. Comes Mountgomery. p. Comes Bridgwater. p. Comes Leicestriæ. Comes North'ton. Comes Warwic. Comes Devon. Comes March. Comes Holdernesse. Comes Carlile. Comes Denbigh. Comes Bristol. Comes Anglisey. Vicecomes Mountague. Vicecomes Wallingford. Vicecomes Purbeck. Vicecomes Maunsfeild. Vicecomes Colchester. Vicecomes Rochford. Vicecomes Andever. Vicecomes Tunbridge. Ds. Abergavenny. Ds. Audley. Ds. Zouch. Ds. Willoughby. Ds. Delawarr. Ds. Berkley. Ds. Morley et M. Ds. Dacres de H. Ds. Stafford. Ds. Scroope. p. Ds. Duddeley. Ds. Stourton. Ds. Herbert de Sh. Ds. Darcy de M. Ds. Vaux. Ds. Windsore. p. Ds. Wentworth. Ds. Mordant. Ds. St. John de Ba. Ds. Cromewell. Ds. Evre. p. Ds. Sheffeild. p. Ds. Paget. Ds. North. Ds. St. John de (fn. 5) Bl. p. Ds. Howard de W. Ds. Wootton. p. Ds. Russell. Ds. Grey de Groby. p. Ds. Petre. p. Ds. Danvers. Ds. Spencer. p. Ds. Say et Seale. p. Ds. Denny. Ds. Stanhope de H. Ds. Carewe. Ds. Arundell de W. p. Ds. Haughton. Ds. Teynham. Ds. Stanhope de Sh. Ds. Noel. Ds. Brooke. Ds. Mountague. Ds. Cary de Lep. Ds. Kensington. Ds. Grey de W. |
Free-school in Lincoln.
HODIE 2a et 3a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for erecting a Free-school, an Alms-house, and a House of Correction, within the County of Lincolne.
Put to the Question, and Expedited.
Continuing some and repealing other Laws.
The Lord President reported the Bill for Continuance and reviving of Statutes, and Repeal of some others, as fit to pass, with some Amendments.
Agreed, That the Commons be acquainted with the Amendments of the said Bill at a Conference, which is to be this Afternoon, touching the Bill of Monopolies.
Alcocke's Bill.
Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for enabling the Sale of the Manor of Rampton, in the County of Cambridge, and of divers Lands and Tenements, in Rampton, Wivellingham, and Cottenham, in the same County, now or late the Freehold or Inheritance of Edward Alcocke, Esquire.
Bp. of Lichfield and Coventry's Bill.
Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act of Explanation of a former Act, made in the Three and Twentieth Year of the late Queen, of Famous Memory, Elizabeth, intituled, An Act for Assurance of Eighty-two Pounds and Ten Shillings to the Bishop of Coventry and Lichfeild, and his Successors for ever, out of certain Manors, Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments, thereby assured to Edward Fisher, Esquire, and his Heirs.
Sir John Rivers s Bill.
Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the altering of the Tenure and Custom of the Lands late of Thomas Potter, Esquire, and the Lands of Sir George Rivers, Knight, and Sir John Rivers, Baronet, all lying in the County of Kent, and being now of the Nature of Gavelkind Land; and to make them descendable according to the Course of the Common Law; and to settle the Inheritance of them upon the said Sir John Rivers and the Heirs of the said Sir John Rivers and Dame Dorothie his Wife.
Sir Reynold Mohun's Bill.
Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for establishing of some Manors, and other Lands, in the several Counties of Cornewall, Devon, and Dorsett, upon John Mohun, Esquire, Son and Heir Apparent of Sir Reynold Mohun, Knight and Baronet, according to the true Intent and Meaning of certain Agreements between them had and made.
And the said Four Bills last-mentioned were committed unto the
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L. President. E. of South'ton. L. Bp. of Bangor. L. Bp. of Exceter. |
L. Duddeley. L. Wentworth. L. Peter. L. Say. |
To meet To-morrow Morning.
Calthorpe's Bill.
Hodie 2a et 3a vice lecta est Billa, An Act to enable Martin Calthorpe, Esquire, to make Sale of certain Lands for Preferment of his younger Children, and Payment of his Debts.
Put to the Question, and Expedited.
Sir Edward Engham's Bill.
Hodie 2a et 3a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the settling and assuring of the Manor of Goodneston, and other Lands of Sir Edward Engham, Knight.
Put to the Question, and Expedited.
E. of Holdernesse's Privilege. Bill's Arrest.
The Petition of John Brewer was read; acknowledging his Fault in the Arrest of Wellsbourne Sill, Servant to the Earl of Holdernes, and craving to be discharged out of his Imprisonment for the same.
Whereupon the said John Brewer was brought to the Bar, and discharged.
Adjourn.
Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse in diem crastinum, videlicet, 20m diem instantis Maii, hora 7a, Dominis sic decernentibus.