House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 28 April 1624

DIE Mercurii, videlicet, 28 die Aprilis,

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.

L. Treasurer's Cause.

THE Witnesses, whom the Lord Treasurer desired to be examined on his Behalf, (fn. 1) attended without; being warned to be here for that Purpose, upon his Lordship's Petition; and the House causing the Usher to go forth and enquire whether any from the Lord Treasurer attended with Interrogatories to be exhibited by his Lordship, according to the Order made Yesterday, and being certified that none attended; their Lordships Agreed (for the gaining of Time), To swear the said Witnesses notwithstanding, to answer unto such Questions as shall be demanded of them by the House, or by any Committee appointed by the House, upon such Interrogatories as shall be allowed of by their Lordships.

And these under-written were (fn. 2) sworn ccordingly: videlicet,

Witnesses for him.

Jurati pro Domino Thesaurario, ex parte sua:

And the Witnesses tarried without, expecting to be examined, until long after that the Lord Treasurer had sent a Petition to their Lordships, but no Interrogatories; and then they were dismissed, divers of them being of the House of Commons, and divers of them being Officers in the Court of Wards.

Usury Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, An Act against Usury; and committed to the

To meet presently, in the Little Committee Chamber.

Assurance of Sir Henry James's Lands to Lumley, Woodrosse and Cropley.

The Names of the Lords Committees on the Bill concerning the Lands of Sir Henry James, Knight, attainted of a Premunire, etc. were read; and the Earl of Oxon, Lord Berkley, and Lord Grey of Groby, added; and then their Lordships withdrew themselves into the Painted Chamber.

So also the Lord Bishop of Sarum, the Lord Danvers, and the Lord Mountague, were added to the Committees on the Bill concerning Ralph Starkey; and their Lordships withdrew themselves into the Lord Keeper's Chamber.

Ditto.

The Lord Archbishop of Cant. reported the Bill concerning the Lands of Sir Henry James, Knight, etc. fit to pass, with Amendments, and one Proviso.

Usury Bill.

The Lord President reported the Bill against Usury fit to pass, without any Amendment.

Ditto.

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa eadem, An Act against Usury.

The Lord Archbishop of Cant. moved, That the Judges might consider whether this Bill did not tacitly allow of Usury to be taken (which is against the Word of God), for that it might then be a Scandal to our Religion.

And, upon the Judges Report, That the Bill might be doubtfully interpreted in that Sense, the Lords thought fit that a Proviso should be added to the said Bill.

Proviso added to it.

The Lord Keeper and Lord President penned the said Proviso; which, being read Twice, was presently ingrossed, and fixed to the Bill, and read the Third Time.

Then the Bill, with the Proviso, was put to the Question, and generally Assented unto.

The Petition of the Lord Treasurer (exhibited this Afternoon) was read, in hæc verba:

"To the Right Honourable Assembly of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in the Higher House of Parliament.

"The humble Petition of the Earl of Midd. Lord Treasurer of England.

"Most humbly shewing,

Ld. Treasurer's Petition.

"That, according to your Lordships Direction in Answer to his Petition humbly presented Yesterday, he hath appointed the Witnesses then named to attend the most Honourable House this Afternoon, to be sworn to answer such Interrogatories as on his Behalf shall be exhibited.

"But whereas your Lordships did further direct that the said Interrogatories should be presented this Afternoon, he most humbly desires your Lordships to be truly informed, that, having neglected no Time, since he received his Charge, to prepare his Answer, he finds the Matters objected so many, and of so divers Natures, that he cannot yet possibly finish the same in such perfect and particular Manner as he ought and desires to do, for your Lordships best Satisfaction, and the clearing the Matters laid to his Charge in all Points.

"And therefore, his Answer being not yet ready, whereupon both the Interrogatories themselves must properly be grounded; and without which your Lordships Judgements of the Pertinency of the Interrogatories cannot be rightly informed; he humbly beseecheth your Lordships to respite those Interrogatories, which, as soon as his Answer is finished, he shall forward with all possible Speed.

"And he doth once again humbly propound to the Consideration of this most Honourable House (because therein your Lordships have not been pleased to give Answer upon his former Petition), whether your Lordships will not, in your Noble Justice, permit him to have Copies of the Depositions taken, and to be taken, in this Cause, on both Sides; without which he shall be utterly disabled to make that just Defence, which a Cause of this Importance to him doth of Necessity require.

"Middlesex."

The Lords, upon the reading of this Petition, did all Agree, That it is against the Order of this Court (as well as of all other Courts) that a Delinquent should have Copies of the Examinations before be answers.

And the Lords appointed the former Committee to consider of an Answer to be made unto the Petition the Lord Archbishop of Cant. and the Earl of Oxon being added, which was reported to the House by the Lord President, and afterwards read, in hæc verba: videlicet,

Answer to Ld. Treasurer's Petition.

The Lords expected to have been obeyed, and not to have been directed; and hold it for a Disrespect unto the House, that Witnesses should be sent and sworn, and no Interrogatories to be sent whereupon to examine them, as was required.

"The Copies of Depositions already taken for Proof of the Charge was not directly prayed in the former Petition; therefore it was not precisely answered. But it is so unfit a Desire, as the Lords think the Petitioner ill advised to make such a Request.

"And, according to the former Order of the House, the Lords expect his Lordship's Appearance To-morrow Morning, and to hear such Answer as he shall make."

This Answer being read Twice, and approved of by all their Lordships, a Copy thereof, signed by the Clerk, was delivered unto Nicholas Younge, who brought the Petition from the Lord Treasurer.

Manors of Stepney and Hackney.

Though the Day was far spent, yet, upon a Motion unto the House, the Bill concerning the Copyholders of Stepney and Hackney was read, for that it concerned the Lord Wentworth, a Member of this House.

Ditto.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for Confirmation of the Copyhold Estates and Customs of divers Copyholders of the Manors of Stepney and Hackney, according to certain Indentures of Agreement, and a Decree in the High Court of Chancery, made between the Lord of the said Manors and the Copyholders.

And committed unto the

Mr. Serjeant Davis to attend the Lords:

To meet on Monday next, the 3d of May, at Eight, in the Painted Chamber.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, 29^m diem instantis Aprilis, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.